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Richard 77



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PostPosted: 12/21/17 3:55 am    ::: The Last Jedi - Spoilers thread Reply Reply with quote

I'm interested to see what those who saw it think. This is supposed to be a spoilers thread. Read at your own risk.



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HistoryWomensBasketball



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PostPosted: 12/21/17 6:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I thought it started a bit slow. I knew nothing of what to expect, other than knowing in real life Carrie had passed.

I will certainly be at eposide 9 but was certainly saddened by what happened in the end.

I think Daisy cast as Rae is a winner. I feel she totally fits in the cast and could have been cast as Leia back in 77

Adam as Ren. Bad ass for sure, but he is now the nastiest in the series by his killing but to me still no where as bad as Vadar.

Bottom line. I liked it. Not near as much as Force Awakens.

my order list

1. Star Wars
2. Force Awakens
3. Empire
4 - most call me crazy - Rogue 1
5. Last Jedi
6. Return of Jedi

then the other 3



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pilight



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PostPosted: 12/21/17 9:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Last Jedi is effectively a repudiation of the prequels and The Force Awakens. The prequels declared that the Old Republic was a time of peace and prosperity -- but what we saw onscreen (in addition to some unbelievably boring films and the lamest love story ever lensed) was a theocratic government (run by Jedi) that was so clumsy, inept and incompetent that an idiot like Jar Jar Binks could hand it over to a Sith Lord whom the Jedi never even noticed rising within their own regime.

Add that to the fact that despite the supposed peace of the Old Republic, it was a time in which this peaceful government raised its own clone army with one hand being ignorant of the other, where a peaceful world like Naboo could be invaded with no action from the Republic and where slave labor unfolded on Tatooine without a flicker of concern from the supposed Jedi peacekeepers. And yet, Obi-Wan Kenobi described this era as "before the dark times; before the Empire" except the Republic was at best less malicious and genocidal while not being able to actually prevent any coups that led to Death Stars blowing up planets.

And then we have The Force Awakens which, in reverting to the Star Wars (1977) playbook of gleeful adventure with rebels against the establishment, reversed the ending of Return of the Jedi by establishing that the Rebels ultimately didn't win the war. As a result, The Last Jedi presents Luke Skywalker declaring that the Jedi have been a complete and total failure across the board; they failed to stop the Sith; they failed to stop the Empire; they'll fail to stop the Order. By the end of The Last Jedi, the Rebels/Resistance are reduced to whoever can fit aboard the Millennium Falcon.

The Last Jedi is effectively declaring the Republic/Rebels/Resistance vs. the Sith/Empire/Order war to be a dead-end for Star Wars as a continuing franchise, with Luke observing that Star Wars' central conceit, the Force, is about the light and energy between all living things and the idea that the Jedi's absence would mean the absence of light is absurd and arrogant -- meaning that there have to be new ways to tell Star Wars stories that aren't just remaking the 1977 film (like The Force Awakens) or trying to lead into the 1977 film (like the prequels). There's quite a bit of this with Kylo Ren too, urging Rey to "let the past die, kill it if you have to."

And Yoda urges Luke to stop thinking in terms of who won or lost which war when, but instead look to need: who needs him and for what and what can he offer and give to those who are suffering?

And when Luke dies, the narrative onscreen indicates that Luke has cut himself off from the Force, but now he gives himself over to the Force which is why he looked reborn to youth in his projection. He is giving up his physical body to become one with the elemental nature of reality and Star Wars stories themselves, allowing himself and the Star Wars franchise to potentially be reborn into something new.

However, I concede that all this content about renewing the Star Wars formula and casting off the old tropes is presented in a movie that is entirely about presenting the STAR WARS formula of heists and space battles and lightsaber duels, so it could be somewhat muted and hypocritical and Episode IX will be from staunch traditionalist JJ Abrams who made the very sort of film The Last Jedi is trying to leave behind.



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PostPosted: 12/21/17 12:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This was, in my opinion, the best Star Wars movie of all time.

I would put it on par with Empire as storytelling goes, but give it even more credit since it had all the baggage of the franchise it had to overcome to be the transcendent film it was.

The way they broke tropes and flipped the script gave it a gritty realism that the franchise had been missing up to this point. It rejects the "hero's journey" trope that has become overused by this point and in doing so makes the story a breath of fresh air. The Force Awakens echoed A New Hope so closely that it built expectations that would have been boring had they come to fruition.

Take Rey's parentage. Because of the echoes to ANH how many of us assumed that because it was left a mystery it had to be a big deal? We were wondering if she was a long lost Skywalker or even a Solo. Was she related to Snoke? It had to be someone important! She was going to be the next "Chosen One" with some long lost familial destiny. Instead, this movie takes that idea and throws it back at us. "Stop assuming" it tells us, "destiny" is bullshit. Her parents? Nobodies. And it is perfect.

The other thing all good movies do is echo the world around them, they speak into the world in which they are written. Star Wars was written in a post-Vietnam world where the Cold War was still raging. The idea of personal destiny and optimism for the future afyer emerging from a dark time spoke to the people and was a common theme in movies and literature of the time.

But this movie speaks to a different era. Instead of repudiating Vietnam, it repudiates the MAGA world we are mired in. It tells us to take off the rosy glasses and stop fighting to return to a past that was not actually "great" for many people. The need is to always progress forward through times of tribulation, not try to go back or else the same mistakes that gave rise to the troubled world will just repeat themselves.

Yeah, The Last Jedi was awesome.



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Richard 77



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PostPosted: 12/21/17 11:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My favorite line is the one from Yoda. "Sacred Jedi Texts. Read them, have you? Page turners, they are not."



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Richard 77



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PostPosted: 12/22/17 4:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rey and Ben Solo are brother and sister. Anyone wish to dispute me? I will offer my theory later.



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PostPosted: 12/22/17 4:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richard 77 wrote:
Rey and Ben Solo are brother and sister. Anyone wish to dispute me? I will offer my theory later.


No. Leia would have recognized her. Besides, there's no way Han and Leia would have abandoned their child.



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Richard 77



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PostPosted: 12/23/17 3:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Richard 77 wrote:
Rey and Ben Solo are brother and sister. Anyone wish to dispute me? I will offer my theory later.


No. Leia would have recognized her. Besides, there's no way Han and Leia would have abandoned their child.


Hmmn... I was hoping for more of a debate. Oh, well. Still early. As for Leah and Han, who's to say how Rey got on Jakku. Perhaps it wasn't abandonment? Protection from their enemies? After all, how did the Force know that the Falcon needed to be on Jakku when Rey was old enough to pilot her?

Dig into Last Jedi deeper. Examine how the reality of OUR human culture has been put into Star Wars, The Last Jedi in particular. Coupled with Last Jedi's symbolism, especially in two key scenes, and then references back to previous films, the clues in LJ will lead to a feasible conclusion that Ray and Ben are brother and sister. And symbolism has played a major factor in these films.



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PostPosted: 12/23/17 5:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If they want to Jedi to live on and not go extinct (and fight alongside the last rebels) then Rey having 2 non jedi parents would be best. Like with the little boy in the end



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PostPosted: 12/23/17 8:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Having Leia survice in the vacuum of space was the only real Brown Flag moment for me....Even channeling the force, you get blown out into space...you're dead. Period. That was a bit cheezeball crap for me.

As for Rey and Ben being siblings....yeah, not at all.


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PostPosted: 12/23/17 9:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richard 77 wrote:
Hmmn... I was hoping for more of a debate. Oh, well. Still early. As for Leah and Han, who's to say how Rey got on Jakku. Perhaps it wasn't abandonment? Protection from their enemies?


If it was protection, someone would have been keeping an eye on her. When Luke was placed on Tatooine, Obi-Wan was also there to make sure nothing happened to him.



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PostPosted: 12/23/17 11:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Richard 77 wrote:
Hmmn... I was hoping for more of a debate. Oh, well. Still early. As for Leah and Han, who's to say how Rey got on Jakku. Perhaps it wasn't abandonment? Protection from their enemies?


If it was protection, someone would have been keeping an eye on her. When Luke was placed on Tatooine, Obi-Wan was also there to make sure nothing happened to him.


So who's the old man giving Poe the lost piece of the map?

"To me, she's royalty?"



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PostPosted: 12/23/17 11:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richard 77 wrote:
pilight wrote:
Richard 77 wrote:
Hmmn... I was hoping for more of a debate. Oh, well. Still early. As for Leah and Han, who's to say how Rey got on Jakku. Perhaps it wasn't abandonment? Protection from their enemies?


If it was protection, someone would have been keeping an eye on her. When Luke was placed on Tatooine, Obi-Wan was also there to make sure nothing happened to him.


So who's the old man giving Poe the lost piece of the map?

"To me, she's royalty?"


Of course he knew Leia. The opening crawl says he's an "old ally" who discovered the map on Jakku. There's no indication he knew Rey at all.



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PostPosted: 12/23/17 11:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Richard 77 wrote:
pilight wrote:
Richard 77 wrote:
Hmmn... I was hoping for more of a debate. Oh, well. Still early. As for Leah and Han, who's to say how Rey got on Jakku. Perhaps it wasn't abandonment? Protection from their enemies?


If it was protection, someone would have been keeping an eye on her. When Luke was placed on Tatooine, Obi-Wan was also there to make sure nothing happened to him.


So who's the old man giving Poe the lost piece of the map?

"To me, she's royalty?"


Of course he knew Leia. The opening crawl says he's an "old ally" who discovered the map on Jakku. There's no indication he knew Rey at all.


That is true. But you're still not digging into Last Jedi further. That's how theories are born.



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PostPosted: 12/24/17 2:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hawkeye wrote:
Having Leia survice in the vacuum of space was the only real Brown Flag moment for me....Even channeling the force, you get blown out into space...you're dead. Period. That was a bit cheezeball crap for me.

As for Rey and Ben being siblings....yeah, not at all.


Leia could not die first. In all of the Star Wars films, the sister has always followed her brother.



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PostPosted: 12/24/17 8:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richard 77 wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
Having Leia survice in the vacuum of space was the only real Brown Flag moment for me....Even channeling the force, you get blown out into space...you're dead. Period. That was a bit cheezeball crap for me.

As for Rey and Ben being siblings....yeah, not at all.


Leia could not die first. In all of the Star Wars films, the sister has always followed her brother.


Still was BS. Being blown out into space would have killed her. It was cheezy and lame and too Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon nonsense.


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PostPosted: 12/24/17 9:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hawkeye wrote:
Richard 77 wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
Having Leia survice in the vacuum of space was the only real Brown Flag moment for me....Even channeling the force, you get blown out into space...you're dead. Period. That was a bit cheezeball crap for me.

As for Rey and Ben being siblings....yeah, not at all.


Leia could not die first. In all of the Star Wars films, the sister has always followed her brother.


Still was BS. Being blown out into space would have killed her. It was cheezy and lame and too Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon nonsense.


I respect your opinion. But this is the Force we are talking about, not the logic of physics or the reality of the laws of physics. Or even how we as film goers know and understand reality. The Force protected Leia until she regained consciousness. It's about having faith in the Force. Or in Darth Vader terms, "I find your lack of faith disturbing."



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PostPosted: 12/24/17 9:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richard 77 wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
Richard 77 wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
Having Leia survice in the vacuum of space was the only real Brown Flag moment for me....Even channeling the force, you get blown out into space...you're dead. Period. That was a bit cheezeball crap for me.

As for Rey and Ben being siblings....yeah, not at all.


Leia could not die first. In all of the Star Wars films, the sister has always followed her brother.


Still was BS. Being blown out into space would have killed her. It was cheezy and lame and too Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon nonsense.


I respect your opinion. But this is the Force we are talking about, not the logic of physics or the reality of the laws of physics. Or even how we as film goers know and understand reality. The Force protected Leia until she regained consciousness. It's about having faith in the Force. Or in Darth Vader terms, "I find your lack of faith disturbing."


I still didn't much like it as nowhere in any of the movies has the force protected like that---heck, Obi Wan and Aniken (sp?) had to have breathing devices under water....can only suspend disbelief so far.


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PostPosted: 12/24/17 9:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hawkeye wrote:
Richard 77 wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
Richard 77 wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
Having Leia survice in the vacuum of space was the only real Brown Flag moment for me....Even channeling the force, you get blown out into space...you're dead. Period. That was a bit cheezeball crap for me.

As for Rey and Ben being siblings....yeah, not at all.


Leia could not die first. In all of the Star Wars films, the sister has always followed her brother.


Still was BS. Being blown out into space would have killed her. It was cheezy and lame and too Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon nonsense.


I respect your opinion. But this is the Force we are talking about, not the logic of physics or the reality of the laws of physics. Or even how we as film goers know and understand reality. The Force protected Leia until she regained consciousness. It's about having faith in the Force. Or in Darth Vader terms, "I find your lack of faith disturbing."


I still didn't much like it as nowhere in any of the movies has the force protected like that---heck, Obi Wan and Aniken (sp?) had to have breathing devices under water....can only suspend disbelief so far.


There were a lot of fans that didn't. You are not alone. But it doesn't change the fact that Leia couldn't die before Luke. Again, this is only my opinion, but many fans still haven't understood the symbolism in the film. I think I have. - Again, my opinion.



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PostPosted: 12/24/17 11:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richard 77 wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
Richard 77 wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
Richard 77 wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
Having Leia survice in the vacuum of space was the only real Brown Flag moment for me....Even channeling the force, you get blown out into space...you're dead. Period. That was a bit cheezeball crap for me.

As for Rey and Ben being siblings....yeah, not at all.


Leia could not die first. In all of the Star Wars films, the sister has always followed her brother.


Still was BS. Being blown out into space would have killed her. It was cheezy and lame and too Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon nonsense.


I respect your opinion. But this is the Force we are talking about, not the logic of physics or the reality of the laws of physics. Or even how we as film goers know and understand reality. The Force protected Leia until she regained consciousness. It's about having faith in the Force. Or in Darth Vader terms, "I find your lack of faith disturbing."


I still didn't much like it as nowhere in any of the movies has the force protected like that---heck, Obi Wan and Aniken (sp?) had to have breathing devices under water....can only suspend disbelief so far.


There were a lot of fans that didn't. You are not alone. But it doesn't change the fact that Leia couldn't die before Luke. Again, this is only my opinion, but many fans still haven't understood the symbolism in the film. I think I have. - Again, my opinion.

I guess I give it more slack than I might have otherwise because of the real world reasons for that scene. I am sure they wanted something dramatic that would fit in with the story they already filmed and that would give Carrie Fisher/Leia an epic send off.

Sure it is a bit unrealistic, even in the in-world mythos, but it told a good story and it accomplished what it needed to for the flims going forward while honoring Fisher.



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Michelle89



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PostPosted: 12/25/17 8:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wonder how they are going to go with the Leia storyline in the last movie..



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PostPosted: 12/25/17 9:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
I wonder how they are going to go with the Leia storyline in the last movie..

Yeah, how they handle that it going to be a much bigger deal than one questionable scene, imo.



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PostPosted: 12/25/17 10:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
If they want to Jedi to live on and not go extinct (and fight alongside the last rebels) then Rey having 2 non jedi parents would be best. Like with the little boy in the end


It never made sense for Force sensitivity to be an inherited trait. Jedi aren't allowed to have families. They would have died out long ago if it was strictly genetic.



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PostPosted: 12/25/17 2:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richard 77 wrote:
My favorite line is the one from Yoda. "Sacred Jedi Texts. Read them, have you? Page turners, they are not."


Did you notice the locker Finn was going through on the Milennium Falcon at the end of the film?



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PostPosted: 12/25/17 3:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Richard 77 wrote:
My favorite line is the one from Yoda. "Sacred Jedi Texts. Read them, have you? Page turners, they are not."


Did you notice the locker Finn was going through on the Milennium Falcon at the end of the film?


Yes. There have been web articles circulating as to how and when they got there. Did she take them, or did Luke put them there? Or did Yoda Force move them there?



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Richard 77



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PostPosted: 12/25/17 8:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As promised, a fan theory. It is of your own choice on whether to believe or not.

In our human culture, it is said that at the exact moment of our death, our entire life passes before our eyes. And in that one final moment, it is said we find our final peace and contentment before moving on to the next world.

In The Last Jedi, we are with Master Jedi Luke at the moment of his passing into the next world. When he returns/recovers from his ultimate battle with Kylo Ren, He climbs upon the rock he clutches and looks to the horizon. In that moment, he sees the sun of Ahch-to setting across the water. Remember, that film time does not equal real time. When Luke sees the sun setting, Luke has a final vision. Instead of seeing the sun of Ahch-to, he suddenly sees the suns of Tatooine, setting into the water. His look is not one of peace. His look is not one of contentment. His is a look of shock. It is a look of recognition. It is a look of REVELATION. It is the same look he had on Dagobah when realizing that Leia was his sister. It is not the suns of Tatooine he sees, it is not the light or the energy of the Force. It is not the past he sees. It is the future. "Always in motion is the future."

The suns of Tatooine are, as they have always been since their creation. The are the walkers in the sky. They are the Skywalkers. Anakin saw them, he never knew what they meant, except desolation and despair. They and their world created him. Luke watched them as a boy. He wasn't trained in the Force yet to realize what they were, what they represented. The suns of Tatooine are what they have always been: Brother and Sister. And sister has always followed her brother. In Birth. In Death. Even when the sister followed her brother... to Tatooine. (SW IV.)

Luke's vision is one of revelation. Ben Solo and Rey Solo are brother and sister. They are Skywalkers.

"I have seen this power once before. It didn't scare me then. It does now."

The final key to this theory: Ben and Rey are brought together onto Ben's starship by the Force, either by their own will, or by Snoke's manipulation, but they are together, nonetheless. The camera closes in on their fingers as they almost touch. (I do not remember, nor does it matter.) This is the final symbol of their connection. The connection of their fingers is the "KISS" of brother and sister, just as the kiss took place between brother and sister years ago on the planet Hoth.

It is my contention, that Ben and Rey are brother and sister. And brother will be redeemed and die first.

We shall see in Episode IX...



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PostPosted: 12/27/17 8:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So when Han was out galavanting around the galaxy he had an illegitimate kid?

That's a bit of a stretch even for Star Wars.


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PostPosted: 12/27/17 9:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hawkeye wrote:
So when Han was out galavanting around the galaxy he had an illegitimate kid?

That's a bit of a stretch even for Star Wars.


The Suns of Tatooine are twins. Ben and Rey are twins.



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PostPosted: 12/27/17 9:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richard 77 wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
So when Han was out galavanting around the galaxy he had an illegitimate kid?

That's a bit of a stretch even for Star Wars.


The Suns of Tatooine are twins. Ben and Rey are twins.


I don't know how you can tell which sun is the brother and which one is the sister



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Richard 77



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Location: Lake Mills, Wisconsin


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PostPosted: 12/27/17 11:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Richard 77 wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
So when Han was out galavanting around the galaxy he had an illegitimate kid?

That's a bit of a stretch even for Star Wars.


The Suns of Tatooine are twins. Ben and Rey are twins.


I don't know how you can tell which sun is the brother and which one is the sister


Supposition. Reverse logic. Symbolism and imagery. Writer's craft. This is after all, theory, but in actuality the suns don't have a gender. But there are too many images, references and symbolic signs throughout all eight films that point to the idea that the sun that sets first over Tatooine represents the male Skywalkers while the one that follows represents the female Skywalkers. Tatooine is a focal point of the Force and in the Star Wars legacy. I wouldn't be surprised if the film makers return there in Episode IX.



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Richard 77



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 3829
Location: Lake Mills, Wisconsin


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PostPosted: 12/28/17 4:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Allow me to ask this: I have seen news article after news article regarding almost everything about The Last Jedi. Except the imagery of why Luke sees the suns of Tatooine before he dies. Why do fans and more importantly, film dissectors, find this small instant of imagery unimportant that it isn't discussed? Why are the suns in the SAME exact position in Last Jedi as they are when Luke sees them in New Hope, or when Owen and Beru see them holding Luke at the end of Revenge of the Sith? The imagery has to mean something or they wouldn't have bothered putting it in the films.



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Hawkeye



Joined: 10 Aug 2010
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Location: Houston, TX


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PostPosted: 12/28/17 4:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richard 77 wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
So when Han was out galavanting around the galaxy he had an illegitimate kid?

That's a bit of a stretch even for Star Wars.


The Suns of Tatooine are twins. Ben and Rey are twins.


Twins? I seriously doubt it. Leia would have 1)recognized who Rey was, and 2) wouldn't have abandoned her as there really wasn't much of an threat between Jedi and Force Awakens. Ben wasn't a child when he rebelled against Luke and destroyed his training center---Ben is obviously older than Rey. It just doesn't hold any water.


Richard 77



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 3829
Location: Lake Mills, Wisconsin


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PostPosted: 12/28/17 5:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hawkeye wrote:
Richard 77 wrote:
Hawkeye wrote:
So when Han was out galavanting around the galaxy he had an illegitimate kid?

That's a bit of a stretch even for Star Wars.


The Suns of Tatooine are twins. Ben and Rey are twins.


Twins? I seriously doubt it. Leia would have 1)recognized who Rey was, and 2) wouldn't have abandoned her as there really wasn't much of an threat between Jedi and Force Awakens. Ben wasn't a child when he rebelled against Luke and destroyed his training center---Ben is obviously older than Rey. It just doesn't hold any water.


This is what makes theories fun. The controversy. The main question has yet to be answered. What is the meaning of the Tatooine suns in Luke's final image? So many people have focused on everything else in the film except for the sun of Ahch-to turning into the images of the twin Tatooine suns. There's hardly any discussion of this scene anywhere. Trust me, this scene is one of, if not the most important scene of this entire film.



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justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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Location: Northfield, MN


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PostPosted: 01/05/18 3:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was thinking about writing a critical essay about The Last Jedi exploring the ways in which the movie deconstructed Luke Skywalker, the Jedi Order, and our assumptions about heroes in general, but never found the time. Luckily, a writer for Tor.com (the major sci-fi/fantasy publisher) did an outstanding job of expressing exactly what I would have.

It is a long essay, but well worth the read if you are into deep exploration of film/literature.

Luke Skywalker Isn’t Supposed to Be “Nice”

Quote:
This is the central theme of The Last Jedi, one that the film tackles with a violent sort of glee. It’s not merely that heroes can make mistakes or occasionally do the wrong thing; the film is examining heroism as a concept, as a systematic construct that binds the very people it should comfort. “Heroes” come with rules and standards, expectations and meaning. “Legends” are not history, they are the stories we tell to elevate history into doctrine.


Quote:
He invites her to learn what it is for herself, to sense its presence throughout the galaxy. And as she observes this balance, the light and the dark, Luke offers her the most important lesson of all:

“The Force does not belong to the Jedi. To say that if the Jedi die, the light dies, is vanity—can’t you see that?”

This is an essential lesson on multiple fronts, but it is also in indictment of heroism and the power granted to those who achieve that designation. The Jedi do not own virtue or good deeds or the key to balancing the galaxy. They are not the arbiters of these things, they do not speak for the Force in any capacity. The stories that grew up around them—the legends—made them believe that they were and they could, and this is ultimately what led to their destruction. Calling yourself a “servant of the Force” at the same time that you are working as the long arm of a government to aid only one side in a gruesome war is well beyond a contradiction, and Luke is in the perfect position to see this long arc for what it is; he caused the same devastation on a smaller scale when he tried to follow their example, losing his temple and students when Ben Solo fell to the dark side.



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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 01/05/18 8:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luke Skywalker is a fascinating character because he was born out of metatextual friction. Mark Hamill never quite understood the character.

In the original STAR WARS, Luke sees his uncle and aunt incinerated. He watches Obi-Wan slice off a man's arm. He's aboard the Falcon when it comes out into Alderaan's orbit and they find scattered rubble where there were once several billion people. Luke shoots at least 50 stormtroopers. There is no reaction that you'd expect for a boy making his first kill. Later, Luke sees all his comrades in Rogue Squadron aside from Wedge killed by TIE Fighters; Luke then blows up the Death Star, presumably killing about 800,000 to 1 million people.

And there is no trauma, no survivor's guilt, no discomfort with taking life. On one level, Luke was very thinly written. He wasn't a character in STAR WARS; he was an audience surrogate and that audience, as envisioned by Lucas writing STAR WARS as a FLASH GORDON knockoff, was adolescent boys who wanted to imagine themselves having all these adventures and engaging in all these battles. But looking at Luke more seriously, the simplest explanation is: Luke is a killer.

More specifically: Luke grew up in a desert wasteland with little law enforcement, predatory wildlife and people looking to rob, steal and kill their victims. So, at an early age, Luke probably had to learn to defend himself. He had to learn how to hunt, how to fight, how to carry a weapon and how to survive -- and, living in the desert, Luke also became acclimatized to violence and death and accepted it as the cycle and circle of life. Luke probably had to kill people who attacked the farm for its equipment. He must have seen friends and neighbors die. Luke specifically says he used to "bullseye womprats," which could have been for sport -- but I think it's more likely that Luke was hunting for food. Luke must have killed people long before he shot his first stormtrooper.

However, because none of that is in the scripts and George Lucas does not direct actors, Mark Hamill couldn't and doesn't see any of that. Luke Skywalker was a blank slate in the scripts, so Hamill's attitude was to project his own personality into the role. Mark Hamill is a gentle, thoughtful, sweet-natured Californian, so he played Luke as himself. And the result is a fascinatingly multi-faceted character because through Mark's performance, Luke becomes this young survivalist who has developed combat and piloting skills simply to stay alive, but his innate personality is the warmth and tenderness of the actor playing the character. The warrior is who he had to become, but the vegetarian charity worker is who he is inside.

We have an interesting conflict in EMPIRE STRIKES BACK where Luke severs the arm of the wampa with his lightsaber. Mark Hamill was furious when he saw the movie; he'd been told on set that the lightsaber would merely scare the animal away. But the slashed-off-arm was added in editing to liven up the scene. "Luke would never do this!" Hamill protested, worrying that the poor wampa would be maimed, die of an infection or worse, be unable to hunt for food or defend itself against other predators. But Hamill's wrong; Mark Hamill would never hurt a wild animal. Luke would. Luke has had to kill to survive and STAR WARS would indicate he killed people long before he brought the droids to Obi-Wan.

And Hamill not really being in tune with the Luke Skywalker character is precisely why he's the best actor to play him. He's a very nice man in conflict with a very violent role and that, onscreen, produces a fascinating personality conflict between the farmer and the soldier inside Luke and it's what made him so iconic and memorable.



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Last edited by pilight on 03/28/18 9:38 am; edited 1 time in total
justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 01/05/18 12:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Outstanding interpretation, pilight.



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Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 01/05/18 1:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Indeed. Now I wonder how another actor, one who did recognize the violence implied in Luke's background, would have played the role. Would the connection between Luke and Vader have been more obvious if Luke showed more signs of enjoying, or at least not not enjoying, the violence?



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Hawkeye



Joined: 10 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: 01/05/18 5:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Of course Luke did celebrate his first kill of a TIE fighter when the Falcon came under attack...Han had to bring him down a notch saying, "Don't get cocky."


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