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summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 4909
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PostPosted: 03/22/18 2:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It sounds like a story made up by the "fans on the hill".



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linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 03/22/18 3:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
How many of the S16 are coached by alumni? Only one, and he didn't play WCBB there.


If UConn and Tenn hired only within the family both Summitt and Auriemma wouldn't have been hired. Of course wcbb wasn't very high profile in 72 and UConn hired Auriemma for 25K in 85 when no established head coach wanted the job. There is always a faction within any university who want continuity. The AD has to make happy his/her boss, boosters/donors/politicians and the fan base.


Nerd2



Joined: 06 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: 03/22/18 8:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Unsubstantiated rumor: The Tennessee freshmen told the AD they wanted Holly out or they were leaving.


I have difficulty believing this for several reasons.

However, if it's true, I hope the AD immediately revoked their scholarships, denied them releases, showed them where the door is, and sincerely wished them all the best in basketball and life. Then, he or she should make an independent decision as to what, if anything, to do with Warlick.


You act as if they stood on a table with a sign that said "UNION." What if the truth was closer to the AD reaching out to them to find out why they were considering transferring?

(it's a rumor so I am speculating wildly here)


PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 14480
Location: Chicago


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PostPosted: 03/22/18 8:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
How many of the S16 are coached by alumni? Only one, and he didn't play WCBB there.


Hire an alumna, and you'll end up where Purdue is.


PRballer



Joined: 18 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: 03/22/18 10:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
I don't think Walz is as good a team builder as Moore. I watched Moore at Chattanooga and now at NC State and I think he's got that way over Walz.


I've always thought that Wes Moore would be the perfect next coach for Tennessee...no, he doesn't have FF experience but he's a winner, team builder and inspires confidence. And NC State this year (with loss of senior backcourt last year) can play "messy" but they do hustle and play hard.

That all said, it would feel super weird to have a man coach the Lady Vols.


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 03/23/18 12:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
It sounds like a story made up by the "fans on the hill".


IDK. There's no mention of this on VN, and that's the first place to trumpet anything that makes Holly look bad. I've seen half a dozen posts there saying that if CHW leaves, then there will be transfers and decommits.


willtalk



Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Posts: 541
Location: NorCal


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PostPosted: 03/23/18 1:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Unsubstantiated rumor: The Tennessee freshmen told the AD they wanted Holly out or they were leaving.


I have difficulty believing this for several reasons.

However, if it's true, I hope the AD immediately revoked their scholarships, denied them releases, showed them where the door is, and sincerely wished them all the best in basketball and life. Then, he or she should make an independent decision as to what, if anything, to do with Warlick.


If this is true- At least they gave them a heads up on their plans and options concerning them. They could just as well have just transferred. While it is not a good idea to set a precedent of players dictating who their coach should be, would it be better if they just all transferred out with out warning? It pretty much makes clear that they came to Tenn because it was Tenn and not because of the coach.

It would be very harsh, unwarranted and punitive to take the actions you suggested as to denying them releases. If they did that they would be destroying any future the team had in respect to recruiting. It reeks of the AD's ego being offended because they are calling for something that he should have done long ago. It reflects their lack of trust in him and their their belief that unless he is pressured he will not take action. Which is probably true. It reflects on his negatively on his own competence. So what do incompetent people do when they are exposed. They take retaliatory action against those that dare to point out their incompetence.

I wouldn't ever want you as my superior.


GEF34



Joined: 23 Jul 2008
Posts: 13641
Location: Los Angeles


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PostPosted: 03/24/18 2:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

willtalk wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Unsubstantiated rumor: The Tennessee freshmen told the AD they wanted Holly out or they were leaving.


I have difficulty believing this for several reasons.

However, if it's true, I hope the AD immediately revoked their scholarships, denied them releases, showed them where the door is, and sincerely wished them all the best in basketball and life. Then, he or she should make an independent decision as to what, if anything, to do with Warlick.


If this is true- At least they gave them a heads up on their plans and options concerning them. They could just as well have just transferred. While it is not a good idea to set a precedent of players dictating who their coach should be, would it be better if they just all transferred out with out warning? It pretty much makes clear that they came to Tenn because it was Tenn and not because of the coach.

It would be very harsh, unwarranted and punitive to take the actions you suggested as to denying them releases. If they did that they would be destroying any future the team had in respect to recruiting. It reeks of the AD's ego being offended because they are calling for something that he should have done long ago. It reflects their lack of trust in him and their their belief that unless he is pressured he will not take action. Which is probably true. It reflects on his negatively on his own competence. So what do incompetent people do when they are exposed. They take retaliatory action against those that dare to point out their incompetence.

I wouldn't ever want you as my superior.


Tennessee's current Athletic Director was hired in December of 2017, so when you say he it's something he should have done a long time ago do you mean during this season he should have decided to let her go? He can't be held accountable for what people before he did or didn't do nor should what they did or didn't do reflect your trust or belief in him.



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snowstormxu



Joined: 05 Mar 2006
Posts: 69
Location: Cincinnati


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PostPosted: 03/24/18 1:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

HomerCecil wrote:
Brian Neal at Xavier was left with a mess of a program when he took over after Amy Waugh's unfortunate departure, and it looked like a couple of years ago that he might be turning the corner.

Given the success that X had under both Melanie Balcomb and Kevin McGuff, it's been frustrating to see the program fall apart. Apathy seems to be the best word to describe the atmosphere around the program. I have no inside knowledge, but it seems as a fan like the administration went all-in on women's basketball during the Amber Harris years and still couldn't build much of a following, and now they've resigned themselves to giving up.

Given the success and rabid fan bases of the Xavier and Cincinnati's men's teams, it's always been puzzling to me why the women's programs have had terrible attendance numbers and general interest. Cincinnati has a huge network of high school talent and basketball fans to draw on. This is UC's best team in a long time and they scored 21 points against UConn last night.

Xavier lost this past weekend in the play-in game in the Big East tournament, so it's possible that Neal might be let go. But with each day that passes where it doesn't happen, it seems less likely.

Xavier under Neal:
2013-14 8-23 (3-15)
2014-15 18-15 (8-10)
2015-16 17-13 (8-10) WBI bid
2016-17 12-18 (4-14)
2017-18 10-20 (3-15)


The 2016-2017 season was the most disappointing season for me in the Brian Neal era. That team had upperclassmen. They should have done better.

My expectations were really low for this past season. Mostly freshmen and sophomores in a very good Big East. The upperclassmen that they did bring back only played sparingly last year. They actually won more games than I thought they would. I thought they'd win 5 games and they won 10. Still nothing to get too excited about, I agree.

I'm giving him one more year, and that's only because he's changed his assistants, and his recruits for next year seem better than the past.

I know of several X fans that won't go to another game until he's gone. He's a good guy for sure, but we're at the point where "enough is enough".


StevenHW



Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 10322
Location: Sacramento, California


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PostPosted: 03/24/18 2:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What is Holly Warlick’ contract status? Does it expire after the end of next season? If so, perhaps UT will just not renew afterwards?



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Ex-Ref



Joined: 04 Oct 2009
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PostPosted: 03/24/18 2:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

For everyone that wants Holly gone:

Who do you replace her with?

Not your dream coach. Who would you realistically replace her with that could do better?

I can't imagine that there is a large pool to chose from.



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Shmermerer1



Joined: 04 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: 03/24/18 3:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
For everyone that wants Holly gone:

Who do you replace her with?

Not your dream coach. Who would you realistically replace her with that could do better?

I can't imagine that there is a large pool to chose from.


I would pick an up and coming mid major coach that can really coach. Recruiting has never been an issue there. I’m a little biased, but Bart Brooks from Belmont would be a terrific hire. Really knows how to teach good offense.

Tennessee AD will NOT pay big money for a WBB head coach.


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 03/25/18 9:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shmermerer1 wrote:
I would pick an up and coming mid major coach that can really coach. Recruiting has never been an issue there. I’m a little biased, but Bart Brooks from Belmont would be a terrific hire. Really knows how to teach good offense.

Tennessee AD will NOT pay big money for a WBB head coach.


And the Tennessee fans will NOT be happy unless the new coach bests Holly's record in year one and makes it to the NC game in year two, which seems unlikely for an "up and coming mid major coach." Between that and the online vitriol the collective Tenn "fans" are spewing about Holly, the players, and WBB, I'd be very leery of walking into that environment.


summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 4909
Location: Shenandoah Valley


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PostPosted: 03/25/18 12:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
Shmermerer1 wrote:
I would pick an up and coming mid major coach that can really coach. Recruiting has never been an issue there. I’m a little biased, but Bart Brooks from Belmont would be a terrific hire. Really knows how to teach good offense.

Tennessee AD will NOT pay big money for a WBB head coach.


And the Tennessee fans will NOT be happy unless the new coach bests Holly's record in year one and makes it to the NC game in year two, which seems unlikely for an "up and coming mid major coach." Between that and the online vitriol the collective Tenn "fans" are spewing about Holly, the players, and WBB, I'd be very leery of walking into that environment.


I strongly believe that this is someone's mindf--- fantasy, promulgated on The Summitt and dragged here out of the garbage by ClayK, who should know better. I'm pretty disgusted by anyone dragging that kind of trash around.



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It takes 3 years to build a team and 7 to build a program.--Conventional Wisdom
Shmermerer1



Joined: 04 Aug 2014
Posts: 234



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PostPosted: 03/25/18 12:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
Shmermerer1 wrote:
I would pick an up and coming mid major coach that can really coach. Recruiting has never been an issue there. I’m a little biased, but Bart Brooks from Belmont would be a terrific hire. Really knows how to teach good offense.

Tennessee AD will NOT pay big money for a WBB head coach.


And the Tennessee fans will NOT be happy unless the new coach bests Holly's record in year one and makes it to the NC game in year two, which seems unlikely for an "up and coming mid major coach." Between that and the online vitriol the collective Tenn "fans" are spewing about Holly, the players, and WBB, I'd be very leery of walking into that environment.


Well I will tell you Bart Brooks would have easily bested Holly's record this year. And with the talent Tennessee has, I wouldn't doubt a final four appearance. I don't post about Holly ever, but she is not an elite coach and will not get a program to elite status. She has failed every year since being a head coach.


FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 03/25/18 2:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That's having a lot of confidence that a first year HC could manage a big-name program, particularly one that could potentially be hamstringed by transfers and decommits.


Shmermerer1



Joined: 04 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: 03/25/18 3:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
That's having a lot of confidence that a first year HC could manage a big-name program, particularly one that could potentially be hamstringed by transfers and decommits.


Yes you're right. I have a lot more confidence in him than Holly. I know Bart. He was an assistant at DePaul. He knows how to run offense and run it at a high level. To win now, you have to run great offense not chuck up shots and hope for offensive rebound and putbacks.

Let me ask you, do you think Holly is a great basketball coach? Do you think she has underachieved with the talent she has? Do you think Tennesse AD would pay for a current top head coach?

I would love for Tennessee to succeed again. Holly can't do it.


Shmermerer1



Joined: 04 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: 03/25/18 3:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
For everyone that wants Holly gone:

Who do you replace her with?

Not your dream coach. Who would you realistically replace her with that could do better?

I can't imagine that there is a large pool to chose from.


Realistically I would go after Niele Ivey. She can recruit at a high level, knows her X's and O's. Comes from top pedigree, and the AD wouldn't have to Shell out big coin for a current top head coach. That's more realistic. Also, it would be great to have another female coach as well as an African American woman get a top head coaching position.


Shmermerer1



Joined: 04 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: 03/25/18 3:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
For everyone that wants Holly gone:

Who do you replace her with?

Not your dream coach. Who would you realistically replace her with that could do better?

I can't imagine that there is a large pool to chose from.


Realistically I would go after Niele Ivey. She can recruit at a high level, knows her X's and O's. Comes from top pedigree, and the AD wouldn't have to Shell out big coin for a current top head coach. That's more realistic. Also, it would be great to have another female coach as well as an African American woman get a top head coaching position.


bucks4now



Joined: 28 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: 03/25/18 3:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shmermerer1 wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
For everyone that wants Holly gone:

Who do you replace her with?

Not your dream coach. Who would you realistically replace her with that could do better?

I can't imagine that there is a large pool to chose from.


Realistically I would go after Niele Ivey. She can recruit at a high level, knows her X's and O's. Comes from top pedigree, and the AD wouldn't have to Shell out big coin for a current top head coach. That's more realistic. Also, it would be great to have another female coach as well as an African American woman get a top head coaching position.


The last ND African American assistant coach is't doing that well currently.


Shmermerer1



Joined: 04 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: 03/25/18 4:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bucks4now wrote:
Shmermerer1 wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
For everyone that wants Holly gone:

Who do you replace her with?

Not your dream coach. Who would you realistically replace her with that could do better?

I can't imagine that there is a large pool to chose from.


Realistically I would go after Niele Ivey. She can recruit at a high level, knows her X's and O's. Comes from top pedigree, and the AD wouldn't have to Shell out big coin for a current top head coach. That's more realistic. Also, it would be great to have another female coach as well as an African American woman get a top head coaching position.


The last ND African American assistant coach is't doing that well currently.


Can you remind me who that is?


Shmermerer1



Joined: 04 Aug 2014
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PostPosted: 03/25/18 4:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bucks4now wrote:
Shmermerer1 wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
For everyone that wants Holly gone:

Who do you replace her with?

Not your dream coach. Who would you realistically replace her with that could do better?

I can't imagine that there is a large pool to chose from.


Realistically I would go after Niele Ivey. She can recruit at a high level, knows her X's and O's. Comes from top pedigree, and the AD wouldn't have to Shell out big coin for a current top head coach. That's more realistic. Also, it would be great to have another female coach as well as an African American woman get a top head coaching position.


The last ND African American assistant coach is't doing that well currently.


Can you remind me who that is?


Shmermerer1



Joined: 04 Aug 2014
Posts: 234



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PostPosted: 03/25/18 4:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shmermerer1 wrote:
bucks4now wrote:
Shmermerer1 wrote:
Ex-Ref wrote:
For everyone that wants Holly gone:

Who do you replace her with?

Not your dream coach. Who would you realistically replace her with that could do better?

I can't imagine that there is a large pool to chose from.


Realistically I would go after Niele Ivey. She can recruit at a high level, knows her X's and O's. Comes from top pedigree, and the AD wouldn't have to Shell out big coin for a current top head coach. That's more realistic. Also, it would be great to have another female coach as well as an African American woman get a top head coaching position.


The last ND African American assistant coach is't doing that well currently.


Can you remind me who that is?


I can answer my own question now. Washington has had much success in the past. To be honest, I don't know what is going on there at the moment. So I'll give you that one.


ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 03/25/18 4:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My apologies for the rumor ...

But the real question was raised: Who could do better that Tennessee could hire?

Now it might be that successful P5 coaches might jump at the chance to go to Tennessee, or it could be that everyone will run away because of the expectations and controversy.

If I were the Tennessee AD, I'd have a replacement in hand before I made any move at all ... and it's probably prudent to just the contract run out.



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FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 03/25/18 4:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
My apologies for the rumor ...

But the real question was raised: Who could do better that Tennessee could hire?

Now it might be that successful P5 coaches might jump at the chance to go to Tennessee, or it could be that everyone will run away because of the expectations and controversy.

If I were the Tennessee AD, I'd have a replacement in hand before I made any move at all ... and it's probably prudent to just the contract run out.


This. Holly's contract runs through next season. The current freshmen and Cheridene Green will have a year under their belts, and a new crop of AA's are signed for next year. If CHW can't produce, i.e. SEC title and FF, with them, it's time for a change, and I think a contract non-renewal will sit better with the players than firing Holly. However, the AD better have a concrete option lined up. Niele Ivey might be a reasonable choice. I don't think Tenn will cough up the money to hire a proven P5 HC.


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