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M.S.G. Group Intends To Sell The Liberty!!!
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dab44lb



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 9:26 am    ::: M.S.G. Group Intends To Sell The Liberty!!! Reply Reply with quote

http://liberty.wnba.com/news/madison-square-garden-company-announces-intention-sell-new-york-liberty/

The Worst Thing to wake up to.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 9:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's only bad if they can't find a buyer. Getting away from James Dolan is a positive, IMO.



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PRballer



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 9:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
It's only bad if they can't find a buyer. Getting away from James Dolan is a positive, IMO.


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bballjunkie



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 9:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This sucks.


dab44lb



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 9:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Why is it that whenever Bill Laimbeer leaves a team, the owner sells the team?



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 9:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It doesn't sound like he wants to dump the team. But he doesn't exactly state that he needs a local buyer. It's hard to imagine not having a team in the largest metropolitan area.



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Ay Mate



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 9:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hope they keep the team in NYC. Brooklyn perhaps. If so, hope they keep the Liberty name.


tfan



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 9:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Doesn't seem like a sure thing that they will find a buyer unless the Warriors step in as they were going to do with LA. They have had it for 21 years and own the arena games are played in, and the television network that shows the games., and I think Draft Kings was still a jersey sponsor Hard to convincingly say to someone else "we think you can make this a success".


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PostPosted: 11/14/17 9:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Trying not to panic. Trying not to panic. I don't waaaaaaaaaannaaaaaaaaaaaa be a Sun fan.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 9:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

dab44lb wrote:
Why is it that whenever Bill Laimbeer leaves a team, the owner sells the team?


He's a rat who knows when to abandon a sinking ship?



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dtsnms



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 9:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
Trying not to panic. Trying not to panic. I don't waaaaaaaaaannaaaaaaaaaaaa be a Sun fan.


Embrace the Sun-light...after the way the Liberty has treated you STHs it would be justified to jump ship!


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 10:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I have to assume that the key figure is now Adam Silver. The WNBA would look ridiculous--and very shaky--without a team in New York.

And I have to wonder what's behind this. Even if the Liberty franchise is losing money, that would be a pittance to Jimmy Dolan. He makes a big point of praising Isiah Thomas in the official statement released by Madison Square Garden. Is Jimmy pissed that the WNBA still won't let his buddy become a part-owner?

I will be very sad if the franchise dies or is moved out of New York. I will be ecstatic if the Liberty continue in New York without slimy Jimmy and sexual harasser Isiah.



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 10:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wow , this makes my stomach hurt . Hate to see teams sold , although it would be a great time to take a shot at toad for the continous threats of my Wings leaving , i share my condolences with you & All NYL fans. Hopefully someone purchases them before the season starts. Maybe LVFO already had an idea this was happening and got out before hand.



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Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 10:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I thought nobody liked Dolan maybe he is on his way out any way.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 10:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So even assuming they could find a local buyer, where in New York is there a place to play at a price commensurate with limited WNBA revenues? I can't think of anywhere if you assume (as I do) that MSG and Barclays would not be interested at a realistic price.

Well they just finished renovating Nassau Colosseum (after saving it from the wrecking ball). They're probably looking for tenants.


Luuuc



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 10:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Where's that redann person these days? It's finally your moment of relevance!



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Shades



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 10:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe they'll move to White Plains to the Westchester County Center.



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Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 10:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Borders needs to hit up the NBA guys coming out in support of women. Heck they can approach it like they do their charities Laughing


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PostPosted: 11/14/17 10:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bad news: Liberty could move, could still be in NYC but wind up not playing in MSG.

Good news: If any franchise is worth actual dollars, it would be the Liberty -- if Dolan gets, say, $3 million for the Liberty, it establishes the WNBA as a legitimate investment.

Worst news: Dolan can't give Liberty away, team folds.



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 10:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Bad news: Liberty could move, could still be in NYC but wind up not playing in MSG.

Good news: If any franchise is worth actual dollars, it would be the Liberty -- if Dolan gets, say, $3 million for the Liberty, it establishes the WNBA as a legitimate investment.

Worst news: Dolan can't give Liberty away, team folds.


+1 especially about the worth portion if theres any at all .



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Randy



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 10:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So it seems the only thing worse than Dolan is Dolan saying goodbye.

How about this guy for owner - Isaih Thomas?



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 10:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
So it seems the only thing worse than Dolan is Dolan saying goodbye.

How about this guy for owner - Isaih Thomas?


Perhaps he could set up a partnership with Harvey Weinstein, Roy Moore, and others in their club.



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dtsnms



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 11:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
So it seems the only thing worse than Dolan is Dolan saying goodbye.

How about this guy for owner - Isaih Thomas?


Cause he did so well owning the CBA? Embarassed


root_thing



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 11:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In the investment community, there have been rumors about MSG itself being in play for a sale. When MSG was spun off from Cablevision, there was some kind of legal holding period that prevented the company from being re-sold. That deadline passed recently, and supposedly a number of large shareholders feel the company is undervalued. They are pushing for the company to sell itself. Dolan and the board are resisting. During times of crisis, companies often lighten their load and rid themselves of all superfluous businesses. Anything unprofitable qualifies. This has the benefit of eliminating distractions as well as making the company as efficient and attractive as possible -- regardless of whichever path you take.

For anyone interested, here is a discussion between two analysts about the value of MSG:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/naFTHumUzK4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>]



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Queenie



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 11:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Everything Isiah Thomas touches turns to shit, and that's when he's not touching it inappropriately. If he's allowed to buy the team in full, best case scenario we're back on tenterhooks in five years. (Worst case scenario: we go get shitfaced with everyone else who's lost a team.)

Weeknights in Westchester would be goddamn near impossible.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 11:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Separation from NBA owners is a long, slow, painful process. However, it is essential for the long term success of the league.



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stever



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 11:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
Everything Isiah Thomas touches turns to shit, and that's when he's not touching it inappropriately. If he's allowed to buy the team in full, best case scenario we're back on tenterhooks in five years. (Worst case scenario: we go get shitfaced with everyone else who's lost a team.)

Weeknights in Westchester would be goddamn near impossible.


How about Uniondale? It looks nicely "spruced up" to me, seats 13,500 for basketball and there's a G League team there now.



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 11:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Separation from NBA owners is a long, slow, painful process. However, it is essential for the long term success of the league.


Aren't you concerned that if all or nearly all the teams are non-NBA owners, the NBA owners will decide to stop subsidizing the WNBA?



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 12:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
pilight wrote:
Separation from NBA owners is a long, slow, painful process. However, it is essential for the long term success of the league.


Aren't you concerned that if all or nearly all the teams are non-NBA owners, the NBA owners will decide to stop subsidizing the WNBA?


They're not subsidizing the WNBA now.

The W separating from the NBA will be like when Billie Jean King and the rest of the Original Nine left the men's tour and started what eventually became the WTA. Women's tennis grew enormously once it wasn't being run as a side show to the men's game. Within 10 years, prize money for women increased to more than 40 times what it had been under the men's governance.



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 12:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

stever wrote:
Queenie wrote:
Everything Isiah Thomas touches turns to shit, and that's when he's not touching it inappropriately. If he's allowed to buy the team in full, best case scenario we're back on tenterhooks in five years. (Worst case scenario: we go get shitfaced with everyone else who's lost a team.)

Weeknights in Westchester would be goddamn near impossible.


How about Uniondale? It looks nicely "spruced up" to me, seats 13,500 for basketball and there's a G League team there now.


Still tough, but maybe more doable? I'd still rather we stay in the city somehow.



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 12:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Liberty folding would be terrible for the league. Or even moving outside of NYC. Equal to if the Sparks were to fold before Magic & Co. took over. Hard to imagine them not playing at MSG. Please let someone like Magic Johnson step up and buy the team! Terrible news to read today.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 12:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Randy wrote:
pilight wrote:
Separation from NBA owners is a long, slow, painful process. However, it is essential for the long term success of the league.


Aren't you concerned that if all or nearly all the teams are non-NBA owners, the NBA owners will decide to stop subsidizing the WNBA?


They're not subsidizing the WNBA now.

The W separating from the NBA will be like when Billie Jean King and the rest of the Original Nine left the men's tour and started what eventually became the WTA. Women's tennis grew enormously once it wasn't being run as a side show to the men's game. Within 10 years, prize money for women increased to more than 40 times what it had been under the men's governance.


Interesting point and I hope you are right. I suspect the NBA indirectly subsidizes the WNBA by forcing ESPN to pay $2 m per year for broadcast rights (and taking less on the NBA TV contract), thus shifting half the cost to the NBA players.

It also seems the teams with NBA owners should be able to take advantage of economies of operation providing a great opportunity for WNBA teams to make a profit. So, if all teams become independent the WNBA may have fewer profitable teams.

In the case of NY - perhaps the cost of doing business in NY is very high, but the Liberty are one of the leaders in attendance, they have a jersey sponsor, and play at the arena they own. Seems like if any team is profitable it should be the Liberty.



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 12:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hey. It's been a while. Saw the news and I had to come here to commiserate.

Also, this is a crazy idea. But what if the fans bought the team?



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 1:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Please let someone like Magic Johnson step up and buy the team! Terrible news to read today.




Someone call Jay-Z Idea Twisted Evil



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 1:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Elizabeth wrote:

Also, this is a crazy idea. But what if the fans bought the team?


Even if you could somehow get it together to buy the team, how many people are willing to keep putting more money into the franchise if it incurs annual losses? I see posters here complaining about paying $15 for League Pass. WNBA fans seem to be either poor, cheap or both. Razz

Maybe our best hope is for MSG to be sold before the Liberty. Buying MSG is about owning the sports franchises, and there is a huge vanity element that drives the desire for sports teams. Maybe you get a new owner (or lead owner) who has daughters and wants to show them what a progressive guy he is. When you're already making such a big investment, the Liberty losses are relatively small. They're more symbolic than anything. For the business-minded, they're emblematic of inefficiency and poor management. To a wealthy individual owner, they can be a symbol of social consciousness and forward thinking. It can be treated like a charity or non-profit arts organization.



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 1:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NEWARK - home of the Liberty...International Airport!

I agree that losing a NYC team will be a bad for the league - no matter what kind of record they have.


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PostPosted: 11/14/17 2:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jmvcity wrote:
NEWARK - home of the Liberty...International Airport!

I agree that losing a NYC team will be a bad for the league - no matter what kind of record they have.


But i have strong faith the league would carry on with business as usual . Just as it did with the Comets , Monarchs , Fire , Sting , Rockers , Ect.....



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 2:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The problem with the WNBA today is clearly cost structure, and since everything is bigger in NYC it makes the problem that much bigger. Not having a team in NYC would be a blow to the WNBA, but if it moved out of the city to the suburbs it could help the cost structure. That would create problems for some fans in getting to games, but might make it easier for others.

The New York Liberty must be saved, but MSG may have to be jettisoned.


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PostPosted: 11/14/17 2:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:


Even if you could somehow get it together to buy the team, how many people are willing to keep putting more money into the franchise if it incurs annual losses? I see posters here complaining about paying $15 for League Pass. WNBA fans seem to be either poor, cheap or both. Razz

Maybe our best hope is for MSG to be sold before the Liberty. Buying MSG is about owning the sports franchises, and there is a huge vanity element that drives the desire for sports teams. Maybe you get a new owner (or lead owner) who has daughters and wants to show them what a progressive guy he is. When you're already making such a big investment, the Liberty losses are relatively small. They're more symbolic than anything. For the business-minded, they're emblematic of inefficiency and poor management. To a wealthy individual owner, they can be a symbol of social consciousness and forward thinking. It can be treated like a charity or non-profit arts organization.


Well said, all of what's above. I'd just add one thing. There are women who could afford to buy the Liberty. More men are in a position to do so, but there are women who could become the team's owners, as in Seattle.



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 2:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just got a phone call from an MSG rep. He called to confirm the announcement that went up this morning and wanted me as a Liberty supporter to get first-hand info. They are indeed looking for new ownership. Other than that, they have no further information at this point.


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PostPosted: 11/14/17 2:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Admiral_Needa wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Please let someone like Magic Johnson step up and buy the team! Terrible news to read today.




Someone call Jay-Z Idea Twisted Evil

I was about to say "Beyonce?"



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 2:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's time for the WNBA to emerge from the socialist cocoon, spending other people's money, and swim or sink with their own income in a capitalist reality. If this is what's happening to the Liberty, good.

I don't see why the league "has" to have a team in NYC. They only "need" to be in a place where they can consistently sell whatever number of tickets is required to make a business profit.

MSG may be a convenient location for fans within a subway ride, but it's extremely costly for anyone else. I live about equidistant from MSG and the Mohegan Sun, and have never seriously entertained commuting into Manhattan to see the Liberty. The cost of just the parking is prohibitive.

I don't think Westchester County Center would be a good alternative. It seats 5,000 max and is old. Ossining High School could fill it up when they had championship teams since the Chong era, but I somehow doubt there would be sufficient Liberty interest. The Nassau Coliseum, which holds 14,000, makes more sense. The Nets began there in the ABA as did the Islanders in the NHL.

There are lots of large cities that don't have and could theoretically support a WNBA team. Philadelphia even has the Liberty Bell.
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PostPosted: 11/14/17 3:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe a native American Indian tribe can buy the Liberty, much like the CT Sun?

Or a New Jersey Casino can purchase the team, just like what MGM Resorts International recently did to the former San Antonio Stars?



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 3:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
It's time for the WNBA to emerge from the socialist cocoon, spending other people's money, and swim or sink with their own income in a capitalist reality.


I don't think you understand what those words mean.


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PostPosted: 11/14/17 3:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:

I don't think Westchester County Center would be a good alternative. It seats 5,000 max and is old. Ossining High School could fill it up when they had championship teams since the Chong era, but I somehow doubt there would be sufficient Liberty interest.


I do believe the Liberty were supposed to have a playoff game there had they gotten past the first round. That's how I derived at that venue.



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 3:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Come on Brooklyn!

Someone save the Liberty!


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PostPosted: 11/14/17 3:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
It's time for the WNBA to emerge from the socialist cocoon, spending other people's money, and swim or sink with their own income in a capitalist reality.


I don't think you understand what those words mean.


I like words, so I take your comment seriously. I'm using the words somewhat metaphorically, but I'll change them thusly:

socialist --> parasitic
capitalist --> self-sufficient

The intended concept remains the same.
Elizabeth



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 3:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
I live about equidistant from MSG and the Mohegan Sun, and have never seriously entertained commuting into Manhattan to see the Liberty.


Metro North?



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 3:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
I don't see why the league "has" to have a team in NYC. They only "need" to be in a place where they can consistently sell whatever number of tickets is required to make a business profit.

When it comes to drawing sponsors and driving other income streams, being a truly national enterprise is a big thing. You want eyes on the product, exposure, and interest where it matters and people have disposable income. That means being in major markets. They've tried being in some smaller ones as well when interested owners have cropped up in those places, but they've actively wanted to be in places like Chicago and Atanta, and made every effort to survive in LA. That's why the WNBA will be desperate to survive in New York in some shape or form, whether it's at MSG, Brooklyn, some random college arena or a giant floating barge next to the Statue of Liberty.

Losing places like Houston, Charlotte or Miami obviously wasn't good, but it's not the same as losing New York or LA. It's one case where the league might run the franchise themselves temporarily if Dolan and co absolutely forced them to.



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PostPosted: 11/14/17 3:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
I don't see why the league "has" to have a team in NYC. They only "need" to be in a place where they can consistently sell whatever number of tickets is required to make a business profit.

When it comes to drawing sponsors and driving other income streams, being a truly national enterprise is a big thing. You want eyes on the product, exposure, and interest where it matters and people have disposable income. That means being in major markets. They've tried being in some smaller ones as well when interested owners have cropped up in those places, but they've actively wanted to be in places like Chicago and Atanta, and made every effort to survive in LA. That's why the WNBA will be desperate to survive in New York in some shape or form, whether it's at MSG, Brooklyn, some random college arena or a giant floating barge next to the Statue of Liberty.

Losing places like Houston, Charlotte or Miami obviously wasn't good, but it's not the same as losing New York or LA. It's one case where the league might run the franchise themselves temporarily if Dolan and co absolutely forced them to.


Agreed.



_________________
Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.
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