RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

Sexual Assault (Who's Next?)
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » Area 51
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 6582



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/14/17 8:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Dustin Hoffman Accused of Exposing Himself to a Minor, Assaulting Two Women

Quote:
Cori Thomas was in high school when she says Dustin Hoffman exposed himself to her in a hotel room. Melissa Kester was a recent college graduate when Hoffman allegedly sexually assaulted her while recording audio for the film “Ishtar.” A third woman, who asked to remain anonymous, said that Hoffman assaulted her in the back of a station wagon and manipulated her into a subsequent sexual encounter that left her traumatized


Hoffman is 80, but looking at his IMDB page he's still active, working on a TV show in 2016 and a movie in 2017. But he may not be as active in the future.


jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 19603



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/14/17 9:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That's stunning. And that the fact that it's in Variety should not be overlooked. It's huge. Also, the thing that I hope people take away from these stories is that this behavior wasn't isolated, it was their lives. They lived this from the time they achieved fame and power till the day the stories broke shining a light on it all. And how many of them? lol. You're just hearing about the famous ones. This is like an industry that's so large even the physical properties of the various old big studios are larger than many towns and small cities in this country.

Collectively, and along with the now so numerous independent studios that outsource every single aspect of production, to all the infrastructure that deals with actresses and hopefuls, the agents, managers, lawyers, publicists, and on and on, it's a BIG FUCKING industry. I was at a party two nights ago and there was a fairly big wig there from the studio that's putting out Molly's Game. They're also doing all these 'gross' comedies, etc. They do absolutely nothing themselves but administrative stuff but nevertheless they're the 'studio.' They put every aspect of the deal together. And that's just one dude I happened to talk to at a freaking party. This is the landscape here.

You're also at this point only hearing about victims and their stories, which, like in the case of Salma Hayek's heartrending situation with Harvey Weinstein, are so non-representative of like 999,000% of sexual misconduct incidents in the entertainment industry. Truly harrowing reading, no doubt, but that was one very incredibly unique story of one famous and badass power-player actress. Because dudes, life is like that in LA. Incredibly unique stories. How it all doesn't end up in an endless stream of great movies is... well... I guess given the circumstances pretty predictable. Wink

But the real reality here is something much less unique than Salma Hayek's experiences. More like this kid in Dustin Hoffman's hotel room. That would be like 100 years of simply green kids with dicks stuffed in their mouths as soon as they showed up for their first job in Hollywood.


Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 8877



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/14/17 10:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYPD opens investigation into Russell Simmons amid rape allegations

Quote:
(CNN)The New York Police Department has opened an investigation into Russell Simmons based on media reports of multiple women coming forward to accuse the music mogul of sexual misconduct, including rape, a law enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation said.

The NYPD can open an investigation without a complaint made directly to them, which is the case with Simmons. A group of women told their stories to the New York Times and the Los Angeles Times.

Brad Rose, an attorney for Simmons, released a statement Thursday night saying that "Russell Simmons fully supports and will cooperate with the police inquiry and is confident of a swift resolution."


http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/14/entertainment/russell-simmons-rape-allegations/index.html



_________________
I'm all for the separation of church and hate.
ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 12549



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/14/17 10:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't know why this would surprise anyone. It was so much a part of Hollywood that it even became a standard Hollywood plotline. How many movies and TV shows include a producer, director, agent or star dangling a movie role in order to bed a young starlet? Enough to make it seem commonplace. Same plotline frequently applied to Broadway jobs.

There's even the passage in The Godfather about the mother having delivered the child actress to the mansion of Jack Woltz (supposedly based on Harry Cohn) for fun and games. Hagan sees the mother and disheveled daughter as he is leaving the mansion. IIRC, the book goes into greater detail about Woltz's proclivities.

To have become such a fixture of Hollywood movie and New York stage lore you have to assume the underlying practices were true and commonplace.


jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 19603



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/15/17 12:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
I don't know why this would surprise anyone. It was so much a part of Hollywood that it even became a standard Hollywood plotline. How many movies and TV shows include a producer, director, agent or star dangling a movie role in order to bed a young starlet?.


We're watching the Ziegfeld Girl from 1941 the other night with Judy Garland and a 20-year-old Lana Turner. Shocked And the inside innuendo about the casting couch? Hang on, I'll transcribe it.

Casting dude: How do you do Miss Sawyer?

Miss Sawyer: How do.

Casting dude: Take off your hat and smile winningly.

Miss Sawyer: Yes sir. [beat] Just my hat?

Casting dude: Yes, just your hat.

Miss Sawyer: I've been warned.

Casting dude: Look, kid. The Follies are life and life is a cafeteria. You look at all those pretty dishes and you pick out which ones you want but you got to pay for it when you get to the counter.

Second old dude: Yes, and there are signs up all over the place that say, Not Responsible For Valuables. Get it, honey?

Miss Sawyer: Y-y-ye-yes, I do.

Casting dude: Now you're sure you know what we're driving at? It's kinda subtle.

Miss Sawyer: Y-y-yes. Oh, yesss!

Old dude: Keep on saying THAT and see where it gets you.



This is 1941. Open secret jokes written into movie scripts.


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 4893
Location: Heisenberg


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/15/17 12:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
Dustin Hoffman Accused of Exposing Himself to a Minor, Assaulting Two Women

Quote:
Cori Thomas was in high school when she says Dustin Hoffman exposed himself to her in a hotel room. Melissa Kester was a recent college graduate when Hoffman allegedly sexually assaulted her while recording audio for the film “Ishtar.” A third woman, who asked to remain anonymous, said that Hoffman assaulted her in the back of a station wagon and manipulated her into a subsequent sexual encounter that left her traumatized


Hoffman is 80, but looking at his IMDB page he's still active, working on a TV show in 2016 and a movie in 2017. But he may not be as active in the future.


Kind of ironic that in Hoffman's breakthrough role he was seduced by an older woman. Trivia: whose leg is in that movie poster?

tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 6582



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/15/17 1:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Trivia: whose leg is in that movie poster?


I was going to say "an unknown model" rather than "Mrs. Mel Brooks", but after a search I think it could actually be Anna Maria Louisa Italiano. The leg in the picture doesn't look like that of a woman as old as I thought Italiano was in that movie (was thinking at least late 40's). But she would have only been 35 when they filmed it in 1966 (for 1967 release). I must have been influenced by her "smoker's voice".





jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 19603



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/15/17 9:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well, that may be the original release poster, probably is, but it’s not the shot that became the iconic Graduate image from that scene.



jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 19603



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/15/17 9:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well, I can see where this thread is going. Laughing

Yes the actual actors were only I think about 6-7 years apart in age. Something like that. Bancroft had greyed streaks in her hair and she was just perfectly cast as there was a time when 35 was getting up near the top of the range but could still be seen as sexy and she nailed that both in reality and on the screen. That has changed so much. Now a 35 year old beauty is often just about when Hollywood starts to peak your career as a babe.




Last edited by jammerbirdi on 12/15/17 9:49 am; edited 1 time in total
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 57029
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/15/17 9:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Kind of ironic that in Hoffman's breakthrough role he was seduced by an older woman. Trivia: whose leg is in that movie poster?


The leg in the poster belongs to Linda Gray



_________________
A leader is one who knows the way, goes the way, and shows the way
GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 4893
Location: Heisenberg


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/15/17 9:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It was of course Ann Bancroft as the older woman (actual age 35) who seduced the young college kid Dustin Hoffman (actual age 29) in the movie, but Bancroft wasn't available on the set the day they shot the movie poster. So a young actress, who later became very famous on TV, was paid $25 for the leg shot. Here she is at age 72 in 2013.

jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 19603



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/15/17 9:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That’s nuts. Linda Gray didn’t look that good at 35. But her legs haven’t changed a bit.


jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 19603



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/15/17 10:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Anne Bancroft may not have quite had those legs, but she had the charisma and artistic vision to create in my opinion THE most unique female character in the history of motion pictures. Mrs Robinson was more than a portrayal of a beautiful sophisticated Beverly Hills snake! I would say it was like she was drawn by a great comic book artist but no one was ever that great. This character, her look, the way she moved, the way she dismissed the concerns of others, Benjamin, in this case, it’s still one of the most real characters ever to be brought to life on the screen.



Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 8877



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/15/17 9:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Matt Damon Opens Up About Sexual Misconduct And It’s Kind Of A Mess

Quote:
Matt Damon — a man who disclaimed any knowledge of Harvey Weinstein’s alleged misdeeds and then admitted he knew the producer had harassed Gwyneth Paltrow — has a few opinions about the slew of sexual misconduct scandals rocking Hollywood. And they’re … interesting.


Quote:
Damon also expressed the view that sexual harassment isn’t as bad as sexual assault.

“I do believe that there’s a spectrum of behavior,” he said. “And we’re going to have to figure out — you know, there’s a difference between, you know, patting someone on the butt and rape or child molestation, right? Both of those behaviors need to be confronted and eradicated without question, but they shouldn’t be conflated, right?”

But he wasn’t done there: “All of that behavior needs to be confronted, but there is a continuum. And on this end of the continuum where you have rape and child molestation or whatever, you know, that’s prison. Right? And that’s what needs to happen. OK? And then we can talk about rehabilitation and everything else. That’s criminal behavior, and it needs to be dealt with that way. The other stuff is just kind of shameful and gross.”


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/matt-damon-harvey-weinstein-sexual-misconduct_us_5a33dd1ae4b0ff955ad2369c



_________________
I'm all for the separation of church and hate.
Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 8877



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/15/17 9:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote








_________________
I'm all for the separation of church and hate.
jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 19603



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/16/17 3:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote



jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 19603



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/16/17 4:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Um.

1. If you’re the plaintiff in a lawsuit, or the defendent, or the victim or defendent in a criminal case, don’t Tweet anything at all about your case. Let your lawyers speak for you. Period.

2. Do not Tweet, that is put into writing, stuff about the other side in your case. That is madness.

3. Do not tweet or be heard speaking even that the police told you something about the other side especially something negative. You just guaranteed that you will have to give up the names of those police officers and they will be deposed about the problematic shit (for them) they told you and they are already this very night cursing the day you were born.

4. Don’t make yourself look like a nut to the court. The allegation you’ve made about a single incident is already public knowledge. Nobody is going to kill you.


sambista



Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 16452
Location: cidade maravilhosa


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/16/17 11:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Are High Heels Headed for a Tumble?
With sexual harassment revelations rife and public spaces threatened, some women are wondering just why they wear these things.


i have always asked this question! high heels are impractical and really jack up your feet down the road. what - you think older women wear those butt-ugly comfort shoes because they have no sense of style?



_________________
no justice, no peace.
jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 19603



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/16/17 12:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
Are High Heels Headed for a Tumble?
With sexual harassment revelations rife and public spaces threatened, some women are wondering just why they wear these things.


Wait, what? I would use this moment as an example of the I Can Say This But You Can't ethos that is, and I'm being deadly serious, a very problematic reality of political discourse going forward. There aren't simply gradations in what can be said, which is not really a problem anyway. But there are gradations in who can say the exact same thing. And that is a really big problem. If I said that women dressing sexy contributes to their being victims of sexual assault I'd be hearing about it from here to Perth. But the NYTimes is saying it right there and nobody stopped that thought from being published.

And by the way, when are we going to have that discussion and who is even going to be allowed to participate?


Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 8877



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/16/17 1:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Matt Damon Receives the Eloquent Wrath of Alyssa Milano Over His Sexual-Misconduct Opinions



Quote:
“Dear Matt Damon, It’s the micro that makes the macro,” she wrote. “We are in a ‘culture of outrage’ because the magnitude of rage is, in fact, overtly outrageous. And it is righteous. I have been a victim of each component of the sexual assault spectrum of which you speak. They all hurt. And they are all connected to a patriarchy intertwined with normalized, accepted — even welcomed — misogyny. We are not outraged because someone grabbed our asses in a picture. We are outraged because we were made to feel this was normal. We are outraged because we have been gaslighted. We are outraged because we were silenced for so long. There are different stages of cancer. Some more treatable than others. But it’s still cancer.”


http://www.vulture.com/2017/12/alyssa-milano-slams-matt-damon-over-his-misconduct-opinions.html



_________________
I'm all for the separation of church and hate.


Last edited by Genero36 on 12/16/17 1:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 8877



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/16/17 1:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote





_________________
I'm all for the separation of church and hate.
Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 8877



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/16/17 1:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote




_________________
I'm all for the separation of church and hate.
sambista



Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 16452
Location: cidade maravilhosa


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/16/17 3:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
sambista wrote:
Are High Heels Headed for a Tumble?
With sexual harassment revelations rife and public spaces threatened, some women are wondering just why they wear these things.


Wait, what? I would use this moment as an example of the I Can Say This But You Can't ethos that is, and I'm being deadly serious, a very problematic reality of political discourse going forward. There aren't simply gradations in what can be said, which is not really a problem anyway. But there are gradations in who can say the exact same thing. And that is a really big problem. If I said that women dressing sexy contributes to their being victims of sexual assault I'd be hearing about it from here to Perth. But the NYTimes is saying it right there and nobody stopped that thought from being published.

And by the way, when are we going to have that discussion and who is even going to be allowed to participate?


we could have a conversation about it. (but maybe not now. i just watched "mudbound," and i'm in a mood. i'm tired of watching the history of racism as theater.)

i dunno. maybe i'd have to turn in my girl card, but i will allow that we women need to revisit our choices. i'm NOT equating dressing sexy with sexual assault. but combined with other cultural forces in play, signals get mixed and presumptions are made. we've been programmed and have sanctioned wearing all the come-hither accouterments, but males are supposed to see these invisible lines: this far and no farther! they're not called "f*ck-me pumps" for nothing. (and wasn't that term coined by a woman?) if the nyt story makes women think about all the sh*t we've bought into, believing we have to get all dolled up and, yes, sexy, to be attractive, then i'm all for that conversation. honestly (and here comes someone now to take away my card), if i were a man, i'd be downright confused.

i'll stop there because my thoughts aren't altogether together.



_________________
no justice, no peace.
justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 6988
Location: Northfield, MN


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/16/17 4:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
sambista wrote:
Are High Heels Headed for a Tumble?
With sexual harassment revelations rife and public spaces threatened, some women are wondering just why they wear these things.


Wait, what? I would use this moment as an example of the I Can Say This But You Can't ethos that is, and I'm being deadly serious, a very problematic reality of political discourse going forward. There aren't simply gradations in what can be said, which is not really a problem anyway. But there are gradations in who can say the exact same thing. And that is a really big problem. If I said that women dressing sexy contributes to their being victims of sexual assault I'd be hearing about it from here to Perth. But the NYTimes is saying it right there and nobody stopped that thought from being published.

And by the way, when are we going to have that discussion and who is even going to be allowed to participate?


we could have a conversation about it. (but maybe not now. i just watched "mudbound," and i'm in a mood. i'm tired of watching the history of racism as theater.)

i dunno. maybe i'd have to turn in my girl card, but i will allow that we women need to revisit our choices. i'm NOT equating dressing sexy with sexual assault. but combined with other cultural forces in play, signals get mixed and presumptions are made. we've been programmed and have sanctioned wearing all the come-hither accouterments, but males are supposed to see these invisible lines: this far and no farther! they're not called "f*ck-me pumps" for nothing. (and wasn't that term coined by a woman?) if the nyt story makes women think about all the sh*t we've bought into, believing we have to get all dolled up and, yes, sexy, to be attractive, then i'm all for that conversation. honestly (and here comes someone now to take away my card), if i were a man, i'd be downright confused.

i'll stop there because my thoughts aren't altogether together.

A big lesson we teach in writing is that the narrative voice matters. Which character says something (or thinks something) can change the meaning of the text entirely. Who that character is essential to the story that is told. Choosing which character to use for the point-of-view of a scene is one of the most significant choices a writer can make. And often the same scene will be written more than once with different PoVs until it finally feels right.

So, yes, there are absolutely gradiations of who can say the exact same thing and have it lead to different meanings.

In this case, however, it is all about choices. No one should think it wrong for a woman to explore her own choices on what to wear and why she is doing it. If a woman wants to wear high heals because it makes her feel good about herself and gives her confidence (even men do this--a new suit, a good haircut, etc. can make us feel good about ourselves) then that is great. But if she hates the way it makes her feet feel and feels like she has to wear it because men expect her to, then she should be able to choose to not.

But these are personal choices. It's about self-reflection and personal autonomy. When it instead becomes about telling other people what they can and cannot wear because of how other people (read: men) aren't capable of behaving themselves and acting professional around someone they find attractive it now becomes offensive.

Basically, it is the difference between "I" statements and "you" statements. "I don't want to wear shoes that hurt like hell, especially when men seem incapable of understanding that sexiness and sex appeal is not a prelude to sex or sexual comments", versus "You shouldn't wear that if you don't want to be harassed or assaulted".



_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
StevenHW



Joined: 25 Jul 2005
Posts: 10236
Location: Sacramento, California


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/16/17 5:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
Well, that may be the original release poster, probably is, but it’s not the shot that became the iconic Graduate image from that scene.



After director Mike Nichols passed away...




_________________
"My mechanic told me, 'I couldn't repair your brakes, so I made your horn louder'." - comedian Steven Wright
Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 8877



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/16/17 9:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

‘Bad Santa’ Director: The Weinsteins Blacklisted Mira Sorvino From My Movie Too

Quote:
"Bad Santa" director Terry Zwigoff stepped forward to say that Harvey and Bob Weinstein asked him not to even consider Mira Sorvino for his 2003 dark comedy.

"I was interested in casting Mira Sorvino in BAD SANTA, but every time I mentioned her over the phone to the Weinsteins, I'd hear a CLICK," Zwigoff wrote on Twitter. "What type of person just hangs up on you like that?! I guess we all know what type of person now."

He added, "I'm really sorry Mira."

A rep for Harvey Weinstein did not immediately respond to TheWrap's request for comment.

Zwigoff's statement follows one by Peter Jackson that Harvey and Bob Weinstein shot down Sorvino and Ashley Judd -- two actresses who have recently accused Harvey of sexual misconduct and threats to derail their careers if they spoke up -- for potential roles in his blockbuster "The Lord of the Rings.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/news/‘bad-santa’-director-the-weinsteins-blacklisted-mira-sorvino-from-my-movie-too/ar-BBGOyNk?li=BBnb7Kz



_________________
I'm all for the separation of church and hate.
GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 4893
Location: Heisenberg


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/16/17 10:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Kansas Dem Andrea Ramsey, accused of sexual harassment, will drop out of U.S. House race

Quote:
Andrea Ramsey, a Democratic candidate for Congress, will drop out of the race after the Kansas City Star asked her about accusations in a 2005 lawsuit that she sexually harassed and retaliated against a male subordinate who said he had rejected her advances.
GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 4893
Location: Heisenberg


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/16/17 10:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NBC Made Payment To Staffer After Sexual Harassment Claim Against Chris Matthews

Quote:
An MSNBC spokesman confirmed Saturday the company made a separation-related payment to one of Chris Matthews employees after the woman complained about sexual harassment.
GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 4893
Location: Heisenberg


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/16/17 10:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Pulitzer Prize winning editor of Detroit Free Press fired for inappropriate behavior with female colleagues.
GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 4893
Location: Heisenberg


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/16/17 10:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista



Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 16452
Location: cidade maravilhosa


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/17/17 4:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
sambista wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
sambista wrote:
Are High Heels Headed for a Tumble?
With sexual harassment revelations rife and public spaces threatened, some women are wondering just why they wear these things.


Wait, what? I would use this moment as an example of the I Can Say This But You Can't ethos that is, and I'm being deadly serious, a very problematic reality of political discourse going forward. There aren't simply gradations in what can be said, which is not really a problem anyway. But there are gradations in who can say the exact same thing. And that is a really big problem. If I said that women dressing sexy contributes to their being victims of sexual assault I'd be hearing about it from here to Perth. But the NYTimes is saying it right there and nobody stopped that thought from being published.

And by the way, when are we going to have that discussion and who is even going to be allowed to participate?


we could have a conversation about it. (but maybe not now. i just watched "mudbound," and i'm in a mood. i'm tired of watching the history of racism as theater.)

i dunno. maybe i'd have to turn in my girl card, but i will allow that we women need to revisit our choices. i'm NOT equating dressing sexy with sexual assault. but combined with other cultural forces in play, signals get mixed and presumptions are made. we've been programmed and have sanctioned wearing all the come-hither accouterments, but males are supposed to see these invisible lines: this far and no farther! they're not called "f*ck-me pumps" for nothing. (and wasn't that term coined by a woman?) if the nyt story makes women think about all the sh*t we've bought into, believing we have to get all dolled up and, yes, sexy, to be attractive, then i'm all for that conversation. honestly (and here comes someone now to take away my card), if i were a man, i'd be downright confused.

i'll stop there because my thoughts aren't altogether together.

A big lesson we teach in writing is that the narrative voice matters. Which character says something (or thinks something) can change the meaning of the text entirely. Who that character is essential to the story that is told. Choosing which character to use for the point-of-view of a scene is one of the most significant choices a writer can make. And often the same scene will be written more than once with different PoVs until it finally feels right.

So, yes, there are absolutely gradiations of who can say the exact same thing and have it lead to different meanings.

In this case, however, it is all about choices. No one should think it wrong for a woman to explore her own choices on what to wear and why she is doing it. If a woman wants to wear high heals because it makes her feel good about herself and gives her confidence (even men do this--a new suit, a good haircut, etc. can make us feel good about ourselves) then that is great. But if she hates the way it makes her feet feel and feels like she has to wear it because men expect her to, then she should be able to choose to not.

But these are personal choices. It's about self-reflection and personal autonomy. When it instead becomes about telling other people what they can and cannot wear because of how other people (read: men) aren't capable of behaving themselves and acting professional around someone they find attractive it now becomes offensive.

Basically, it is the difference between "I" statements and "you" statements. "I don't want to wear shoes that hurt like hell, especially when men seem incapable of understanding that sexiness and sex appeal is not a prelude to sex or sexual comments", versus "You shouldn't wear that if you don't want to be harassed or assaulted".


all that said, we can't ignore our cultural imprints and make these choices in a vacuum and expect others to read our minds.

so here's a scenario: two friends at a popular club. one woman's wearing fashionable clothes - dressy jeans, loose top, flat-soled shoes - and minimal makeup. the other woman's wearing fashionable clothes - short, tight dress with plunging neckline, high heels, sparkly jewelry - and dramatic eye makeup and red lipstick.

what would be your instant impressions about these two women? and would your instant impressions be as simple as, or simply stop at, concluding that each woman came to the club with no preconceived ideas and both dressed in a way that made each feel beautiful?

no. that's not human nature. most people, men and women, would assign characteristics and labels. until we get to a place where presumptions aren't out of whack, and where people are respectful of other people on a very fundamental level, regardless of outer trappings, our personal choices may continue to influence outcomes. and in this respect - cultural labels, presumptions out of whack - women must own their culpability.

but getting back to high heels, i think women would celebrate if something turned culturally and, all a sudden, wearing flat shoes was the new sexy. it only takes a few significant people to lead the way. i mean, who'd have thought a man bun was sexy, not sissy?



_________________
no justice, no peace.
GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 4893
Location: Heisenberg


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/17/17 9:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Pope: Media sins by dredging up, sensationalizing old news

Quote:
Pope Francis is criticizing journalists who dredge up old scandals and sensationalize the news, saying it's a "very serious sin" that hurts all involved.


Quote:
But he reminded them to provide precise, complete and correct information and not to provide one-sided reports.

The pope said: "You shouldn't fall into the 'sins of communication:' disinformation, or giving just one side, calumny that is sensationalized, or defamation, looking for things that are old news and have been dealt with and bringing them to light today."
PUmatty



Joined: 10 Nov 2004
Posts: 14348
Location: Chicago


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/17/17 11:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Pope: Media sins by dredging up, sensationalizing old news

Quote:
Pope Francis is criticizing journalists who dredge up old scandals and sensationalize the news, saying it's a "very serious sin" that hurts all involved.


Quote:
But he reminded them to provide precise, complete and correct information and not to provide one-sided reports.

The pope said: "You shouldn't fall into the 'sins of communication:' disinformation, or giving just one side, calumny that is sensationalized, or defamation, looking for things that are old news and have been dealt with and bringing them to light today."


The head of the Catholic church couldn't possibly have some self-interested motives in keeping sexual assault allegations quiet ...


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 4893
Location: Heisenberg


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/17/17 9:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Panthers owner abruptly selling team after horrid accusations

Quote:
Other wrongs cited including Richardson exploiting “Jeans Day” to ogle women’s backsides, luring employees up to his suite at Bank of America Stadium, where in one instance he requested a foot massage, and in others he gave back massages in which he let his hands explore too low. Additionally, he allegedly personally asked Panthers female employees if he could shave their legs


And the Romans thought Nero, Tiberius and Caligula were bad.
Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 8877



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/17/17 10:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote





_________________
I'm all for the separation of church and hate.
Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 8877



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/18/17 9:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tavis Smiley: 'PBS made a huge mistake.' PBS to Smiley: Get your story straight

Quote:
"Tavis Smiley needs to get his story straight," a spokeswoman for PBS said Monday in an email to CNN's Brian Stelter.

"First, today on 'Good Morning America,' Mr. Smiley acknowledged he has had multiple sexual encounters with his employees... This contradicts his Facebook post from last week, where he cited only one previous relationship with an employee," the PBS statement said.

The public broadcasting organization said last week it had hired an outside law firm to handle an investigation into the matter "following receipt of a complaint."

"The totality of the investigation, which included Mr. Smiley, revealed a pattern of multiple relationships with subordinates over many years, and other conduct inconsistent with the values and standards of PBS," the statement said.

Smiley responded at that time, saying "if having a consensual relationship with a colleague years ago is the stuff that leads to this kind of public humiliation and personal destruction, heaven help us."

PBS also cited Smiley's comments Monday about applauding the women who have come forward, and noted that his company requires former and current employees to sign non-disclosure agreements.

"Witnesses who have bravely come forward to speak with the independent investigators retained by PBS report a fear of retribution for speaking out," the network said, adding that more allegations "are continuing to come to light since last week's announcement."


http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/18/entertainment/tavis-smiley-interview/index.html



_________________
I'm all for the separation of church and hate.
jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 19603



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/19/17 8:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:


we could have a conversation...


I’m not convinced of that.


scullyfu



Joined: 01 Jan 2006
Posts: 8518
Location: Niagara Falls


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/19/17 11:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Panthers owner abruptly selling team after horrid accusations

Quote:
Other wrongs cited including Richardson exploiting “Jeans Day” to ogle women’s backsides, luring employees up to his suite at Bank of America Stadium, where in one instance he requested a foot massage, and in others he gave back massages in which he let his hands explore too low. Additionally, he allegedly personally asked Panthers female employees if he could shave their legs


And the Romans thought Nero, Tiberius and Caligula were bad.


before anyone starts feeling sorry for this guy, remember he's gonna become a millionaire many times over when he sells the team. he's not going to be living under a bridge.



_________________
i'll always bleed Storm green.
Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 8877



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/19/17 3:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote



Quote:
“Matt Damon- SERIOUSLY? You are a smart man. A privileged, white man,” the Will & Grace star wrote on Monday. “This is NOT the time to ask for a pat on the back. How about we NOT celebrate men who are simply decent human beings. Stay on track, Matt. It’s not about you.”

“Matt Damon is dense AF,” McGowan, who has taken aim at Damon and pal Ben Affleck before amid the Harvey Weinstein sex scandal, wrote.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/celebrity/matt-damon-slammed-again-for-saying-there%e2%80%99s-a-%e2%80%98whole-s%e2%80%94load-of-guys%e2%80%99-who-aren%e2%80%99t-sexual-predators/ar-BBH0j6m?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=mailsignout



_________________
I'm all for the separation of church and hate.
Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 8123



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/19/17 5:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

scullyfu wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
Panthers owner abruptly selling team after horrid accusations

Quote:
Other wrongs cited including Richardson exploiting “Jeans Day” to ogle women’s backsides, luring employees up to his suite at Bank of America Stadium, where in one instance he requested a foot massage, and in others he gave back massages in which he let his hands explore too low. Additionally, he allegedly personally asked Panthers female employees if he could shave their legs


And the Romans thought Nero, Tiberius and Caligula were bad.


before anyone starts feeling sorry for this guy, remember he's gonna become a millionaire many times over when he sells the team. he's not going to be living under a bridge.


No worries - I don't think there is a lot of sympathy floating around here in the first place.



_________________
The fault...lies not not in our stars but in ourselves that we are losers.
Luuuc



Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 18593



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/19/17 8:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Genero36 wrote:


Quote:
“Matt Damon- SERIOUSLY? You are a smart man. A privileged, white man,” the Will & Grace star wrote on Monday. “This is NOT the time to ask for a pat on the back. How about we NOT celebrate men who are simply decent human beings. Stay on track, Matt. It’s not about you.”

“Matt Damon is dense AF,” McGowan, who has taken aim at Damon and pal Ben Affleck before amid the Harvey Weinstein sex scandal, wrote.


https://www.msn.com/en-us/movies/celebrity/matt-damon-slammed-again-for-saying-there%e2%80%99s-a-%e2%80%98whole-s%e2%80%94load-of-guys%e2%80%99-who-aren%e2%80%99t-sexual-predators/ar-BBH0j6m?li=BBnbfcL&ocid=mailsignout


It's surely just a matter of time before Mattsplaining is added to the dictionary.



_________________
Seems rike no one takes me serirousreee
Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 11050
Location: Oklahoma (in my heart)


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/20/17 12:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
all that said, we can't ignore our cultural imprints and make these choices in a vacuum and expect others to read our minds.

so here's a scenario: two friends at a popular club. one woman's wearing fashionable clothes - dressy jeans, loose top, flat-soled shoes - and minimal makeup. the other woman's wearing fashionable clothes - short, tight dress with plunging neckline, high heels, sparkly jewelry - and dramatic eye makeup and red lipstick.

what would be your instant impressions about these two women? and would your instant impressions be as simple as, or simply stop at, concluding that each woman came to the club with no preconceived ideas and both dressed in a way that made each feel beautiful?

no. that's not human nature. most people, men and women, would assign characteristics and labels. until we get to a place where presumptions aren't out of whack, and where people are respectful of other people on a very fundamental level, regardless of outer trappings, our personal choices may continue to influence outcomes. and in this respect - cultural labels, presumptions out of whack - women must own their culpability.

but getting back to high heels, i think women would celebrate if something turned culturally and, all a sudden, wearing flat shoes was the new sexy. it only takes a few significant people to lead the way.


Many good points in this thread, but the above is articulately insightful.

Now, about THIS....
sambista wrote:
i mean, who'd have thought a man bun was sexy, not sissy?

::Raises hand:: I think a man's buns are VERY sexy. No?



_________________
Oklahoma: Go Sooners!
justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 6988
Location: Northfield, MN


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/20/17 1:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:


so here's a scenario: two friends at a popular club. one woman's wearing fashionable clothes - dressy jeans, loose top, flat-soled shoes - and minimal makeup. the other woman's wearing fashionable clothes - short, tight dress with plunging neckline, high heels, sparkly jewelry - and dramatic eye makeup and red lipstick.

what would be your instant impressions about these two women? and would your instant impressions be as simple as, or simply stop at, concluding that each woman came to the club with no preconceived ideas and both dressed in a way that made each feel beautiful?

While I understand this, the problem is that these labels are all subjective.

Say I am in some conservative Middle Eastern country where there is an expectation that women cover themsleves completely. Is a woman who chooses to go out in jeans and a t-shirt because she finds them comfortable at all responsible for how others will perceive her? Or does this only apply to women who dress in a way that our culture has labeled as such?

There was a time when a glimpse of an ankle was what a "plunging neckline" and a tight skirt is to us today. And on the flip side there are women walking around competely naked in nudist colonies that are not even being blinked at.

The general consensus here would be that it is oppressive and wrong for a woman to be forced to wear a burqa and to sexualize her if she wore what we consider to be "normal clothes". So why does the same not apply to us and our own subjective standard?



_________________
↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 8877



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/20/17 9:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote


Christian Bale: 'Culture will be richer when we stop white dudes running things'

Quote:
"Our culture will be so much richer the day that we stop saying, 'Hey, it's all white dudes who are running things,'" Bale said. "Whether that be Hollywood, whether that be Washington, you know. We're going to get, in Hollywood, so much better films and so much more interesting stories being told and America will become the America that the rest of the world sees it as, that makes it unique."


Quote:
"As an Englishman, we recognise what makes this such a beautiful, brilliant country and [how] not to ruin that," he said. "It's the reason I moved here. It's the reason my kids have American accents. It's because... it's a country of inclusion and invitation."


http://www.telegraph.co.uk/films/2017/12/20/christian-bale-culture-will-richer-stop-white-dudes-running/



_________________
I'm all for the separation of church and hate.
Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 8877



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/20/17 7:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

TMZ: Police Investigating Sylvester Stallone for Alleged Rape in 1990

Quote:
Stallone denied the allegations to TMZ. He said he spent three days with the accuser during a 1987 movie shoot in Israel, but never saw her in 1990. Stallone said that during those three days, he was single, she was not a minor, and there was never a rape. The actor’s attorney Marty Singer said he plans to file a complaint accusing the woman of filing a false police report.

This is the first time the accuser has reported the alleged rape to police. There is no statute of limitations on prosecuting rape cases in California.

Last month, The Daily Mail resurfaced a 1986 police report, confirmed by the head of Las Vegas P.D.’s sexual assault unit at the time, in which a 16-year-old girl claimed Stallone and his bodyguard Michael De Luca “intimidated” her into having sex with both of them. The girl said Stallone threatened to “beat her head in” if she told anyone about the incident. Stallone and his bodyguard were both married at the time. The girl declined to press charges.


https://www.spin.com/2017/12/sylvester-stallone-rape-investigation/



_________________
I'm all for the separation of church and hate.
Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 8877



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/20/17 9:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

USA Gymnastics: McKayla Maroney's attorney in 2016 initiated confidentiality request

Quote:
"They were willing to engage in a systematic cover-up of the entire matter," Manly said Wednesday when asked about the confidentiality agreement.

In late 2016, USA Gymnastics paid Maroney to sign the confidentiality agreement, Manly said, effectively buying the silence of one of the sport's most recognizable Olympians. Manly would not disclose the amount, but The Wall Street Journal reported that Maroney was paid $1.25 million.

Maroney willingly entered into the agreement, Manly said, but did so at a time when she was emotionally traumatized by the emerging news that Nassar had sexually abused dozens of other women under the guise of medical treatment.

"I want people to understand that this kid had no choice. She couldn't function. She couldn't work," Manly said. "They [USAG] were willing to sacrifice the health and well-being of one of the most famous gymnasts in the world because they didn't want the world to know they were protecting a pedophile doctor."


http://www.espn.com/olympics/gymnastics/story/_/id/21825575/usa-gymnastics-struck-agreement-mckayla-maroney-keep-larry-nassar-abuse-quiet-lawyer-says



_________________
I'm all for the separation of church and hate.
Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 8877



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/22/17 6:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Petition Demands Matt Damon's Removal From Ocean's 8 After Controversial Sexual Harassment Comments

Quote:
Matt Damon’s recent controversial comments on Hollywood’s sexual harassment scandal has prompted a petition for his cameo to be removed from Ocean’s 8.

At the time of publication, the online petition had nearly 18,500 signatures calling for his removal.

Citing Damon’s alleged involvement in an attempt to kill a 2004 story about Harvey Weinstein’s history of sexual misconduct, the petition claims the actor’s inclusion in Ocean’s 8 would “trivialize the serious nature” of the allegations.

“Damon’s inclusion would trivialize the serious nature of the charges against sexual abusers like Weinstein — a show massive disrespect for the brave women speaking out,” read the petition.


http://people.com/movies/petition-demands-matt-damons-removal-from-oceans-8/

Link to Petition
https://www.thepetitionsite.com/441/501/676/sexual-harassment-isn’t-a-joke-remove-matt-damon-from-oceans-8/

I signed.




_________________
I'm all for the separation of church and hate.
Randy



Joined: 08 Oct 2011
Posts: 8123



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/22/17 8:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hey Genaro36,

I appreciate your work in keeping this "Hall of Shame" updated. Too bad it is getting so large.



_________________
The fault...lies not not in our stars but in ourselves that we are losers.
Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 8877



Back to top
PostPosted: 12/22/17 9:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Hey Genaro36,

I appreciate your work in keeping this "Hall of Shame" updated. Too bad it is getting so large.


It is too bad but I'm not shocked. I think celebrity worship is dangerous and maybe people can raise their kids to look up to tangible role models and not ideas.



_________________
I'm all for the separation of church and hate.
GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 4893
Location: Heisenberg


Back to top
PostPosted: 12/22/17 9:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

AP Poll: Sexual misconduct allegations voted top news story

Quote:
The wave of sexual misconduct allegations that toppled Hollywood power brokers, politicians, media icons and many others was the top news story of 2017, according to The Associated Press' annual poll of U.S. editors and news directors.
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » Area 51 All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Page 3 of 4

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin