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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 12/14/17 8:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Dustin Hoffman Accused of Exposing Himself to a Minor, Assaulting Two Women

Quote:
Cori Thomas was in high school when she says Dustin Hoffman exposed himself to her in a hotel room. Melissa Kester was a recent college graduate when Hoffman allegedly sexually assaulted her while recording audio for the film “Ishtar.” A third woman, who asked to remain anonymous, said that Hoffman assaulted her in the back of a station wagon and manipulated her into a subsequent sexual encounter that left her traumatized


Hoffman is 80, but looking at his IMDB page he's still active, working on a TV show in 2016 and a movie in 2017. But he may not be as active in the future.


jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 12/14/17 9:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That's stunning. And that the fact that it's in Variety should not be overlooked. It's huge. Also, the thing that I hope people take away from these stories is that this behavior wasn't isolated, it was their lives. They lived this from the time they achieved fame and power till the day the stories broke shining a light on it all. And how many of them? lol. You're just hearing about the famous ones. This is like an industry that's so large even the physical properties of the various old big studios are larger than many towns and small cities in this country.

Collectively, and along with the now so numerous independent studios that outsource every single aspect of production, to all the infrastructure that deals with actresses and hopefuls, the agents, managers, lawyers, publicists, and on and on, it's a BIG FUCKING industry. I was at a party two nights ago and there was a fairly big wig there from the studio that's putting out Molly's Game. They're also doing all these 'gross' comedies, etc. They do absolutely nothing themselves but administrative stuff but nevertheless they're the 'studio.' They put every aspect of the deal together. And that's just one dude I happened to talk to at a freaking party. This is the landscape here.

You're also at this point only hearing about victims and their stories, which, like in the case of Salma Hayek's heartrending situation with Harvey Weinstein, are so non-representative of like 999,000% of sexual misconduct incidents in the entertainment industry. Truly harrowing reading, no doubt, but that was one very incredibly unique story of one famous and badass power-player actress. Because dudes, life is like that in LA. Incredibly unique stories. How it all doesn't end up in an endless stream of great movies is... well... I guess given the circumstances pretty predictable. Wink

But the real reality here is something much less unique than Salma Hayek's experiences. More like this kid in Dustin Hoffman's hotel room. That would be like 100 years of simply green kids with dicks stuffed in their mouths as soon as they showed up for their first job in Hollywood.


Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 12/14/17 10:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYPD opens investigation into Russell Simmons amid rape allegations

Quote:
(CNN)The New York Police Department has opened an investigation into Russell Simmons based on media reports of multiple women coming forward to accuse the music mogul of sexual misconduct, including rape, a law enforcement source with knowledge of the investigation said.

The NYPD can open an investigation without a complaint made directly to them, which is the case with Simmons. A group of women told their stories to the New York Times and the Los Angeles Times.

Brad Rose, an attorney for Simmons, released a statement Thursday night saying that "Russell Simmons fully supports and will cooperate with the police inquiry and is confident of a swift resolution."


http://www.cnn.com/2017/12/14/entertainment/russell-simmons-rape-allegations/index.html



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 12/14/17 10:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't know why this would surprise anyone. It was so much a part of Hollywood that it even became a standard Hollywood plotline. How many movies and TV shows include a producer, director, agent or star dangling a movie role in order to bed a young starlet? Enough to make it seem commonplace. Same plotline frequently applied to Broadway jobs.

There's even the passage in The Godfather about the mother having delivered the child actress to the mansion of Jack Woltz (supposedly based on Harry Cohn) for fun and games. Hagan sees the mother and disheveled daughter as he is leaving the mansion. IIRC, the book goes into greater detail about Woltz's proclivities.

To have become such a fixture of Hollywood movie and New York stage lore you have to assume the underlying practices were true and commonplace.


jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 12/15/17 12:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
I don't know why this would surprise anyone. It was so much a part of Hollywood that it even became a standard Hollywood plotline. How many movies and TV shows include a producer, director, agent or star dangling a movie role in order to bed a young starlet?.


We're watching the Ziegfeld Girl from 1941 the other night with Judy Garland and a 20-year-old Lana Turner. Shocked And the inside innuendo about the casting couch? Hang on, I'll transcribe it.

Casting dude: How do you do Miss Sawyer?

Miss Sawyer: How do.

Casting dude: Take off your hat and smile winningly.

Miss Sawyer: Yes sir. [beat] Just my hat?

Casting dude: Yes, just your hat.

Miss Sawyer: I've been warned.

Casting dude: Look, kid. The Follies are life and life is a cafeteria. You look at all those pretty dishes and you pick out which ones you want but you got to pay for it when you get to the counter.

Second old dude: Yes, and there are signs up all over the place that say, Not Responsible For Valuables. Get it, honey?

Miss Sawyer: Y-y-ye-yes, I do.

Casting dude: Now you're sure you know what we're driving at? It's kinda subtle.

Miss Sawyer: Y-y-yes. Oh, yesss!

Old dude: Keep on saying THAT and see where it gets you.



This is 1941. Open secret jokes written into movie scripts.


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 12/15/17 12:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
Dustin Hoffman Accused of Exposing Himself to a Minor, Assaulting Two Women

Quote:
Cori Thomas was in high school when she says Dustin Hoffman exposed himself to her in a hotel room. Melissa Kester was a recent college graduate when Hoffman allegedly sexually assaulted her while recording audio for the film “Ishtar.” A third woman, who asked to remain anonymous, said that Hoffman assaulted her in the back of a station wagon and manipulated her into a subsequent sexual encounter that left her traumatized


Hoffman is 80, but looking at his IMDB page he's still active, working on a TV show in 2016 and a movie in 2017. But he may not be as active in the future.


Kind of ironic that in Hoffman's breakthrough role he was seduced by an older woman. Trivia: whose leg is in that movie poster?

tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 12/15/17 1:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Trivia: whose leg is in that movie poster?


I was going to say "an unknown model" rather than "Mrs. Mel Brooks", but after a search I think it could actually be Anna Maria Louisa Italiano. The leg in the picture doesn't look like that of a woman as old as I thought Italiano was in that movie (was thinking at least late 40's). But she would have only been 35 when they filmed it in 1966 (for 1967 release). I must have been influenced by her "smoker's voice".





jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 12/15/17 9:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well, that may be the original release poster, probably is, but it’s not the shot that became the iconic Graduate image from that scene.



jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 12/15/17 9:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well, I can see where this thread is going. Laughing

Yes the actual actors were only I think about 6-7 years apart in age. Something like that. Bancroft had greyed streaks in her hair and she was just perfectly cast as there was a time when 35 was getting up near the top of the range but could still be seen as sexy and she nailed that both in reality and on the screen. That has changed so much. Now a 35 year old beauty is often just about when Hollywood starts to peak your career as a babe.




Last edited by jammerbirdi on 12/15/17 9:49 am; edited 1 time in total
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 57580
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PostPosted: 12/15/17 9:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Kind of ironic that in Hoffman's breakthrough role he was seduced by an older woman. Trivia: whose leg is in that movie poster?


The leg in the poster belongs to Linda Gray



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GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 12/15/17 9:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It was of course Ann Bancroft as the older woman (actual age 35) who seduced the young college kid Dustin Hoffman (actual age 29) in the movie, but Bancroft wasn't available on the set the day they shot the movie poster. So a young actress, who later became very famous on TV, was paid $25 for the leg shot. Here she is at age 72 in 2013.

jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 12/15/17 9:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That’s nuts. Linda Gray didn’t look that good at 35. But her legs haven’t changed a bit.


jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 12/15/17 10:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Anne Bancroft may not have quite had those legs, but she had the charisma and artistic vision to create in my opinion THE most unique female character in the history of motion pictures. Mrs Robinson was more than a portrayal of a beautiful sophisticated Beverly Hills snake! I would say it was like she was drawn by a great comic book artist but no one was ever that great. This character, her look, the way she moved, the way she dismissed the concerns of others, Benjamin, in this case, it’s still one of the most real characters ever to be brought to life on the screen.



Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: 12/15/17 9:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Matt Damon Opens Up About Sexual Misconduct And It’s Kind Of A Mess

Quote:
Matt Damon — a man who disclaimed any knowledge of Harvey Weinstein’s alleged misdeeds and then admitted he knew the producer had harassed Gwyneth Paltrow — has a few opinions about the slew of sexual misconduct scandals rocking Hollywood. And they’re … interesting.


Quote:
Damon also expressed the view that sexual harassment isn’t as bad as sexual assault.

“I do believe that there’s a spectrum of behavior,” he said. “And we’re going to have to figure out — you know, there’s a difference between, you know, patting someone on the butt and rape or child molestation, right? Both of those behaviors need to be confronted and eradicated without question, but they shouldn’t be conflated, right?”

But he wasn’t done there: “All of that behavior needs to be confronted, but there is a continuum. And on this end of the continuum where you have rape and child molestation or whatever, you know, that’s prison. Right? And that’s what needs to happen. OK? And then we can talk about rehabilitation and everything else. That’s criminal behavior, and it needs to be dealt with that way. The other stuff is just kind of shameful and gross.”


https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/matt-damon-harvey-weinstein-sexual-misconduct_us_5a33dd1ae4b0ff955ad2369c



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 12/15/17 9:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote








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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 12/16/17 3:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote



jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 12/16/17 4:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Um.

1. If you’re the plaintiff in a lawsuit, or the defendent, or the victim or defendent in a criminal case, don’t Tweet anything at all about your case. Let your lawyers speak for you. Period.

2. Do not Tweet, that is put into writing, stuff about the other side in your case. That is madness.

3. Do not tweet or be heard speaking even that the police told you something about the other side especially something negative. You just guaranteed that you will have to give up the names of those police officers and they will be deposed about the problematic shit (for them) they told you and they are already this very night cursing the day you were born.

4. Don’t make yourself look like a nut to the court. The allegation you’ve made about a single incident is already public knowledge. Nobody is going to kill you.


sambista



Joined: 25 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 12/16/17 11:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Are High Heels Headed for a Tumble?
With sexual harassment revelations rife and public spaces threatened, some women are wondering just why they wear these things.


i have always asked this question! high heels are impractical and really jack up your feet down the road. what - you think older women wear those butt-ugly comfort shoes because they have no sense of style?



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jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 12/16/17 12:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
Are High Heels Headed for a Tumble?
With sexual harassment revelations rife and public spaces threatened, some women are wondering just why they wear these things.


Wait, what? I would use this moment as an example of the I Can Say This But You Can't ethos that is, and I'm being deadly serious, a very problematic reality of political discourse going forward. There aren't simply gradations in what can be said, which is not really a problem anyway. But there are gradations in who can say the exact same thing. And that is a really big problem. If I said that women dressing sexy contributes to their being victims of sexual assault I'd be hearing about it from here to Perth. But the NYTimes is saying it right there and nobody stopped that thought from being published.

And by the way, when are we going to have that discussion and who is even going to be allowed to participate?


Genero36



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PostPosted: 12/16/17 1:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Matt Damon Receives the Eloquent Wrath of Alyssa Milano Over His Sexual-Misconduct Opinions



Quote:
“Dear Matt Damon, It’s the micro that makes the macro,” she wrote. “We are in a ‘culture of outrage’ because the magnitude of rage is, in fact, overtly outrageous. And it is righteous. I have been a victim of each component of the sexual assault spectrum of which you speak. They all hurt. And they are all connected to a patriarchy intertwined with normalized, accepted — even welcomed — misogyny. We are not outraged because someone grabbed our asses in a picture. We are outraged because we were made to feel this was normal. We are outraged because we have been gaslighted. We are outraged because we were silenced for so long. There are different stages of cancer. Some more treatable than others. But it’s still cancer.”


http://www.vulture.com/2017/12/alyssa-milano-slams-matt-damon-over-his-misconduct-opinions.html



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Last edited by Genero36 on 12/16/17 1:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
Genero36



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PostPosted: 12/16/17 1:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote





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Genero36



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PostPosted: 12/16/17 1:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote




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sambista



Joined: 25 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 12/16/17 3:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
sambista wrote:
Are High Heels Headed for a Tumble?
With sexual harassment revelations rife and public spaces threatened, some women are wondering just why they wear these things.


Wait, what? I would use this moment as an example of the I Can Say This But You Can't ethos that is, and I'm being deadly serious, a very problematic reality of political discourse going forward. There aren't simply gradations in what can be said, which is not really a problem anyway. But there are gradations in who can say the exact same thing. And that is a really big problem. If I said that women dressing sexy contributes to their being victims of sexual assault I'd be hearing about it from here to Perth. But the NYTimes is saying it right there and nobody stopped that thought from being published.

And by the way, when are we going to have that discussion and who is even going to be allowed to participate?


we could have a conversation about it. (but maybe not now. i just watched "mudbound," and i'm in a mood. i'm tired of watching the history of racism as theater.)

i dunno. maybe i'd have to turn in my girl card, but i will allow that we women need to revisit our choices. i'm NOT equating dressing sexy with sexual assault. but combined with other cultural forces in play, signals get mixed and presumptions are made. we've been programmed and have sanctioned wearing all the come-hither accouterments, but males are supposed to see these invisible lines: this far and no farther! they're not called "f*ck-me pumps" for nothing. (and wasn't that term coined by a woman?) if the nyt story makes women think about all the sh*t we've bought into, believing we have to get all dolled up and, yes, sexy, to be attractive, then i'm all for that conversation. honestly (and here comes someone now to take away my card), if i were a man, i'd be downright confused.

i'll stop there because my thoughts aren't altogether together.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 12/16/17 4:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
jammerbirdi wrote:
sambista wrote:
Are High Heels Headed for a Tumble?
With sexual harassment revelations rife and public spaces threatened, some women are wondering just why they wear these things.


Wait, what? I would use this moment as an example of the I Can Say This But You Can't ethos that is, and I'm being deadly serious, a very problematic reality of political discourse going forward. There aren't simply gradations in what can be said, which is not really a problem anyway. But there are gradations in who can say the exact same thing. And that is a really big problem. If I said that women dressing sexy contributes to their being victims of sexual assault I'd be hearing about it from here to Perth. But the NYTimes is saying it right there and nobody stopped that thought from being published.

And by the way, when are we going to have that discussion and who is even going to be allowed to participate?


we could have a conversation about it. (but maybe not now. i just watched "mudbound," and i'm in a mood. i'm tired of watching the history of racism as theater.)

i dunno. maybe i'd have to turn in my girl card, but i will allow that we women need to revisit our choices. i'm NOT equating dressing sexy with sexual assault. but combined with other cultural forces in play, signals get mixed and presumptions are made. we've been programmed and have sanctioned wearing all the come-hither accouterments, but males are supposed to see these invisible lines: this far and no farther! they're not called "f*ck-me pumps" for nothing. (and wasn't that term coined by a woman?) if the nyt story makes women think about all the sh*t we've bought into, believing we have to get all dolled up and, yes, sexy, to be attractive, then i'm all for that conversation. honestly (and here comes someone now to take away my card), if i were a man, i'd be downright confused.

i'll stop there because my thoughts aren't altogether together.

A big lesson we teach in writing is that the narrative voice matters. Which character says something (or thinks something) can change the meaning of the text entirely. Who that character is essential to the story that is told. Choosing which character to use for the point-of-view of a scene is one of the most significant choices a writer can make. And often the same scene will be written more than once with different PoVs until it finally feels right.

So, yes, there are absolutely gradiations of who can say the exact same thing and have it lead to different meanings.

In this case, however, it is all about choices. No one should think it wrong for a woman to explore her own choices on what to wear and why she is doing it. If a woman wants to wear high heals because it makes her feel good about herself and gives her confidence (even men do this--a new suit, a good haircut, etc. can make us feel good about ourselves) then that is great. But if she hates the way it makes her feet feel and feels like she has to wear it because men expect her to, then she should be able to choose to not.

But these are personal choices. It's about self-reflection and personal autonomy. When it instead becomes about telling other people what they can and cannot wear because of how other people (read: men) aren't capable of behaving themselves and acting professional around someone they find attractive it now becomes offensive.

Basically, it is the difference between "I" statements and "you" statements. "I don't want to wear shoes that hurt like hell, especially when men seem incapable of understanding that sexiness and sex appeal is not a prelude to sex or sexual comments", versus "You shouldn't wear that if you don't want to be harassed or assaulted".



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StevenHW



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PostPosted: 12/16/17 5:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
Well, that may be the original release poster, probably is, but it’s not the shot that became the iconic Graduate image from that scene.



After director Mike Nichols passed away...




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