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Genero36



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PostPosted: 11/29/17 10:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<embed><iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Wiw8oEBIorE" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allow="encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wiw8oEBIorE




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PostPosted: 11/29/17 10:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote




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tfan



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PostPosted: 11/29/17 11:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Why is Ann Curry's photo being posted? I thought Lauer came off as a real jerk during her firing and the rumors were that he fought for it. But it seems almost the rule that a nice person like Curry loses out on TV to jerks like Lauer. We like jerks on TV just like we like jerks in office.


Genero36



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PostPosted: 11/29/17 11:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Why is Ann Curry's photo being posted?


As a reminder as to how beautiful karma is. I wonder if he harassed her as well.



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 11/29/17 12:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lauer should have been axed for his pathetic behavior during the Clinton- Trump interview. But then, of course, he was merely doing his corp. duty.

So I say, ha! to you, Matty.

I also hated the Curry firing; any comeuppance there is fine w/ me.



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PostPosted: 11/29/17 12:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The NYT and Variety have said they have been working on Lauer stories for weeks and that NBC knew it. Yet, Lack says the firing impetus was a woman's complaint just yesterday.

Remember, it was NBC that, for months, blocked Ronan Farrow's well-sourced exposé of Harvey Weinstein from publication. I wonder why.

Lauer's female co-stars should soon have to explain how they weren't aware of his activities and whether they enabled or covered up for him. HERE'S an NBC commercial showing Lauer flashing female co-workers including Guthrie. Where there's a joke, there's often fire.
jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 11/29/17 1:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't know why this doesn't deserve either it's own thread or why we haven't started a thread just for this ongoing whatever you call it. lol.

Or G could maybe just rename it as the Latest Big Horny Scoundrel News thread. LACDA's office has nothing to do with Matt *Later getting fired.

*sometimes autocorrect just works.


stever



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PostPosted: 11/29/17 3:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Minnesota Public Radio Fires Garrison Keillor Over Allegations of Improper Conduct

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/29/business/media/garrison-keillor-fired.html?_r=0



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Randy



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PostPosted: 11/29/17 3:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Is it time for some guys to start "self reporting" self impose sanctions just like NCAA schools do when they think they are going get hit with sanctions for violations? Question



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tfan



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PostPosted: 11/30/17 5:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One solution to sexual harassment and all other kinds of bad workplace behavior is lots of cameras and microphones. I know someone (female) who was having problems with a female co-worker who from what she said, was incredibly hard to work with and also a terrible worker. At some point, the bad worker did something to start an argument and then marched up to a director's office with a co-worker and stated that she had been hit by the other woman. It could have resulted in an innocent firing as the situation would have been: people would have heard an argument and then a "witness" would have testified to having seen the punch. But instead, the false accuser was ultimately fired (after a delay of many weeks) due to the fact that there was a hidden camera in the office that no one knew about, and which showed that there was no punch as was claimed. No idea if the "witness" got any kind of discipline. I don't believe he was fired. It sounded like they were more alarmed about the bad work habits of the fired woman that were revealed during the investigation than the false charge.


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PostPosted: 11/30/17 6:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
One solution to sexual harassment and all other kinds of bad workplace behavior is lots of cameras and microphones.


forget the band-aid. the solution to sexual harassment is a realignment of attitudes and comportment regarding women. this is learned, and reinforced, behavior that has been deemed okay. and though i'll be thrashed for saying it, women's behavior, also learned and reinforced, is culpable, too. we're "trained" to get all dolled up and employ our feminine wiles to attract - and be attractive to - men. if we don't catch some men's attention in public, we're doing something wrong or not trying hard enough. now these are generalizations, in which there are some basic truths. i honestly don't know how both women and men are supposed to know where the boundaries are when it comes to being, looking and feeling beautiful (for yourself), inviting suitors (sounds so old-fashioned, but basically conveying you're available, but not easy) while commanding respect and equal footing in the workplace and setting limits. media and marketing are largely to blame. but just like gratuitous violence, we allow it, we love it, we endorse and reward it with our dollars, and we want more.

so using cameras and microphones only means we'll need more and more of them over time, until there's no place unmonitored. let's get at the root of the problem, and one way to start is to stop pointing at other people and things to fix it.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 11/30/17 7:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In watching the news channels for analysis about the past presidential election, I was struck by the fact that the male analysts are sitting there in suits and the women are (with a few exceptions) in one-color dresses sometimes just siting on an open stool. In the case of the younger attractive women I would find myself checking them out rather than listening to what they were saying. I think it would be a good idea for women to wear something similar to men in the workplace. A shirt and pants, and if the men are wearing suits, wear at least a jacket, if not a tie. And no makeup and jewelry would also make things more equal.

sambista wrote:

so using cameras and microphones only means we'll need more and more of them over time, until there's no place unmonitored.


That's where we are headed eventually. I was talking to a work security guard who monitors cameras that were only visible at exits and on the outside of buildings and I asked him if there were any in the workplace.His answer was "well, we didn't start out intending to do that". Not sure what he meant as he didn't clarify, but I remember a guard saying that they had caught someone stealing from a coffee fund by putting a hidden camera in the area. I suspect that once a hidden camera goes in for a specific purpose (employee consistently coming late and leaving early or theft or employee conflicts of some nature), that they never leave.Constant surveillance of employees (microphones would be needed as well to prevent verbal harassment) seems to also fit well with modern employment practices like hiring illegal workers or non-citizens in place of Americans, and moving American jobs to other countries.

Quote:
let's get at the root of the problem, and one way to start is to stop pointing at other people and things to fix it.


What do you suggest to do as to getting at the root of the problem?

It seems like Trump and/or Weinstein has caused a massive change in the attitudes of women with regard to speaking up, and fairly powerless HR departments will now have much more power with regard to the issue once they are notified, now that it is getting a zero tolerance treatment in society. The men always knew it was bad behavior, now they know it will be much harder to get away with.

Cameras would give women a stronger motivation to speak out - there would be proof. And also protect against any false charges - . I mentioned that a woman tried to get another woman fired by lying about an alleged punch. Even though uncommon, that could happen with regard to a sexual harassment charge.


sambista



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PostPosted: 11/30/17 8:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
What would you suggest to do as far as "getting to the root of the problem"? Men have always behaved badly in many ways, not just sexual harassment. Parenting and school and society strong discipline can get men to behave better with regard to sexual harassment and other bad behavior (would love to see a zero tolerance in schools for physical or verbal bullying). But if we knew how to eliminate it I don't think there would be any jails or prisons and kids wouldn't still get bullied at school.

Cameras would give women a stronger motivation to speak out - there would be proof. And also protect against any false charges - . I mentioned that a woman tried to get another woman fired by lying about an alleged punch. Even though uncommon, that could happen with regard to a sexual harassment charge.


i'm not saying monitoring devices are a bad idea, per se, but they don't solve the problem. our society, globally, is morally and ethically corrupt. we need to look within ourselves and determine that we will be better than this. maybe long after we're dead (me, anyway), the pendulum will swing back to the days of (from our view now) extreme modesty and old-fashioned courting rituals, so society can get back to a more even keel. what tv show or movie have you watched lately that doesn't involve a man and woman meeting for the first time in a bar or club, having a drink and teasing banter, then cut to them tearing off their clothes, often before they can even close the front door? we love that shit. it's burnished in our brains. women need to internalize - girls need to internalize - their value, that they deserve to be treated better, than they don't have to "dangle" their beauty to be appreciated. men need to internalize - boys need to internalize - their value, that they deserve to be regarded better, that their value isn't in their pants, that women are more than their appearances.

it starts at home, with dialogue, with what a family (parents) values as "entertainment" (tv, movies, video, music, etc.), it starts with setting examples.

gawd. even as i write this, i myself feel like i sound like a far-right religious prude. which i'm decidedly not. that's how far i feel we've fallen.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 11/30/17 8:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
maybe long after we're dead (me, anyway), the pendulum will swing back to the days of (from our view now) extreme modesty and old-fashioned courting rituals, so society can get back to a more even keel


Yeah, when the Muslims take over we'll have extreme modesty and very old fashioned courtship rituals. Of course even with that the Middle East has much higher rates of sexual assault than we have here in the US...



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sambista



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PostPosted: 11/30/17 8:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
sambista wrote:
maybe long after we're dead (me, anyway), the pendulum will swing back to the days of (from our view now) extreme modesty and old-fashioned courting rituals, so society can get back to a more even keel


Yeah, when the Muslims take over we'll have extreme modesty and very old fashioned courtship rituals. Of course even with that the Middle East has much higher rates of sexual assault than we have here in the US...


that's a stretch. this is still the united states, and how old-fashioned rituals manifest likely would mirror something from our past, not another country's or another culture's. any more than the kind of policies that obama or bernie have promoted would turn the u.s. into a socialist country.



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 11/30/17 9:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote


Quote:
"There are no words to express my sorrow and regret for the pain I have caused others by words and actions. To the people I have hurt, I am truly sorry. As I am writing this I realize the depth of the damage and disappointment I have left behind at home and at NBC.

"Some of what is being said about me is untrue or mischaracterized, but there is enough truth in these stories to make me feel embarrassed and ashamed. I regret that my shame is now shared by the people I cherish dearly.

"Repairing the damage will take a lot of time and soul searching and I'm committed to beginning that effort. It is now my full time job. The last two days have forced me to take a very hard look at my own troubling flaws. It's been humbling. I am blessed to be surrounded by the people I love. I thank them for their patience and grace."


http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/30/media/matt-lauer-full-statement/index.html



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pilight



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PostPosted: 11/30/17 9:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
pilight wrote:
sambista wrote:
maybe long after we're dead (me, anyway), the pendulum will swing back to the days of (from our view now) extreme modesty and old-fashioned courting rituals, so society can get back to a more even keel


Yeah, when the Muslims take over we'll have extreme modesty and very old fashioned courtship rituals. Of course even with that the Middle East has much higher rates of sexual assault than we have here in the US...


that's a stretch. this is still the united states, and how old-fashioned rituals manifest likely would mirror something from our past, not another country's or another culture's. any more than the kind of policies that obama or bernie have promoted would turn the u.s. into a socialist country.


In the past, powerful men taking advantage of young, vulnerable women was expected and accepted, especially in the entertainment business. Louis B Mayer used to have Judy Garland sit on his lap during meetings. Marilyn Monroe called Hollywood "an overcrowded brothel, a merry-go-round with beds for horses". Check this article from 1920 which reported "young women are not advanced in their chosen profession unless they submit to the advances of studio managers, directors, or influential male stars". The Shubert brothers, for whom the term "casting couch" was invented, were so infamous for their treatment of young hopefuls that Broadway was referred to as the Gland Canyon.

Nothing has changed but the coverage.



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sambista



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PostPosted: 11/30/17 9:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
In the past, powerful men taking advantage of young, vulnerable women was expected and accepted, especially in the entertainment business. Louis B Mayer used to have Judy Garland sit on his lap during meetings. Marilyn Monroe called Hollywood "an overcrowded brothel, a merry-go-round with beds for horses". Check this article from 1920 which reported "young women are not advanced in their chosen profession unless they submit to the advances of studio managers, directors, or influential male stars". The Shubert brothers, for whom the term "casting couch" was invented, were so infamous for their treatment of young hopefuls that Broadway was referred to as the Gland Canyon.


no argument here. yes, it existed in the past.

pilight wrote:
Nothing has changed but the coverage.


this, however, doesn't follow. of course, things have changed. dating, courtship, the length of time between couples meeting, dating, having sex, getting married, the way people dress and behave, ostensibly to look attractive to others, etc., etc. - all of it has changed. the fact that people in power have always abused their power with sexual aggression doesn't change the fact that our society has changed the rules of engagement in more personal, everyday situations.

the fact is we've yet to explore this issue regarding everyday people - friends, family, people like migrant workers/slave laborers who are at special risk.



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 11/30/17 11:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote



Russell Simmons steps down after sexual assault allegation

Quote:
"I have been informed with great anguish of Jenny Lumet's recollection about our night together in 1991," Simmons said in a statement. "I know Jenny and her family and have seen her several times over the years since the evening she described. While her memory of that evening is very different from mine, it is now clear to me that her feelings of fear and intimidation are real. While I have never been violent, I have been thoughtless and insensitive in some of my relationships over many decades and I sincerely and humbly apologize."

The statement continued: "This is a time of great transition. The voices of the voiceless, those who have been hurt or shamed, deserve and need to be heard. As the corridors of power inevitably make way for a new generation, I don't want to be a distraction so I am removing myself from the businesses that I founded. The companies will now be run by a new and diverse generation of extraordinary executives who are moving the culture and consciousness forward. I will convert the studio for yogic science into a not-for-profit center of learning and healing. As for me, I will step aside and commit myself to continuing my personal growth, spiritual learning and above all to listening."

On November 19, the Los Angeles Times published a report that detailed allegations of sexual misconduct made against director Brett Ratner and Simmons. A woman quoted in the story said Ratner and Simmons, 60, were "in it together."

Ratner and Simmons denied the allegations, with Simmons adding that, "abusing women in any way shape or form violates the very core of my being."


http://money.cnn.com/2017/11/30/media/russell-simmons-sexual-assault-stepping-down-companies/index.html



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 11/30/17 1:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What I am really taken aback at are all these reports of men exposing themselves to women. That simply conjures up images of some guy in a trench coat flashing someone in a dark alley, not a guy in a suit in an office.

The "he put his hand on my ass" reports are far more subject to a situation being misconstrued, or of changing standards, particularly the 30 year old incidents.

But who the hell ever thought it was ok to drop trou in front of someone? That is such a completely bizarre notion to me. I've never heard of or thought of such a thing.

Maybe I'm just hopelessly out of touch. But my jaw just drops when I hear these reports.


jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 11/30/17 1:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
tfan wrote:
What would you suggest to do as far as "getting to the root of the problem"? Men have always behaved badly in many ways, not just sexual harassment. Parenting and school and society strong discipline can get men to behave better with regard to sexual harassment and other bad behavior (would love to see a zero tolerance in schools for physical or verbal bullying). But if we knew how to eliminate it I don't think there would be any jails or prisons and kids wouldn't still get bullied at school.

Cameras would give women a stronger motivation to speak out - there would be proof. And also protect against any false charges - . I mentioned that a woman tried to get another woman fired by lying about an alleged punch. Even though uncommon, that could happen with regard to a sexual harassment charge.


i'm not saying monitoring devices are a bad idea, per se, but they don't solve the problem. our society, globally, is morally and ethically corrupt. we need to look within ourselves and determine that we will be better than this. maybe long after we're dead (me, anyway), the pendulum will swing back to the days of (from our view now) extreme modesty and old-fashioned courting rituals, so society can get back to a more even keel. what tv show or movie have you watched lately that doesn't involve a man and woman meeting for the first time in a bar or club, having a drink and teasing banter, then cut to them tearing off their clothes, often before they can even close the front door? we love that shit. it's burnished in our brains. women need to internalize - girls need to internalize - their value, that they deserve to be treated better, than they don't have to "dangle" their beauty to be appreciated. men need to internalize - boys need to internalize - their value, that they deserve to be regarded better, that their value isn't in their pants, that women are more than their appearances.

it starts at home, with dialogue, with what a family (parents) values as "entertainment" (tv, movies, video, music, etc.), it starts with setting examples.

gawd. even as i write this, i myself feel like i sound like a far-right religious prude. which i'm decidedly not. that's how far i feel we've fallen.


I think it's interesting that the discussion here has turned to solutions, you know, as if the ones we're seeing right now aren't the right ones or won't work. I think we're right where we need to be save one thing and that's criminal prosecutions where it is warranted. This is all so long overdue. I think we all have a human tendency to jump to the big picture and big picture fixes. This is like a world war. There's multiple theaters of conflict. But each granular battle is incredibly important.

As an aside, it's good to know that people here are aware of how long standing, unique, and extreme is the situation in the entertainment industry. Or at least people have a clue. Because whether women around the world and in all the various industries like to hear it or not, Hollywood is Ground Zero for workplace sexual improprieties, and the ground is dug all the way to hell.

I don't know if I've already said this here or not but it's about Al Franken and the way there was this effort by, for example, Ruth Marcus, and I guess everyone, again, human nature, to compare Al Franken's behavior to Harvey Weinstein or the Roy Moore allegations, etc. So to that I say this. You know who you need to be comparing Al Franken to that you're not? All the guys who wouldn't dream of doing what he did. Because we're all watching this.

So I have to say this now. I hate virtue signaling, but I am not above virtue SCREAMING given certain specific weather conditions. We're there now. With every single allegation that has broken, as each day passes, mother fuck if I'm not feeling better and better about myself. lol. And it's not just schadenfreude. I have always assumed that nobody on earth was more focused on beauty and women and what our beloved President grabs them by, than me. I grew up in the sexual revolution and I'm still right there. But I have NEVER, EVER, behaved inappropriately with a women or girl in my long life. I've never inappropriately touched a woman or a girl. I've never forced myself on a girl or a women or was 'all hands' or anything like that. I've fucking barely hit on a women in 60 years. And I have to say, nevertheless, I've had a LOT of fun in my life. My attitude has always been the same. If you aren't interested in me I'm sure as fuck not interested in you. Also, I've always been paranoid about being seen by women as a perve. Which I am. But still.

So when I hear about this shit of grabbing a woman's ass as photographs are taken with them, I'm more appalled then even the women who have to put up with this shit every day. Because they see it and know it exists. I'm like, I had NO concept that a elected politician would DARE play grab ass with his constituents! I can't even fathom that. I get Harvey Weinstiein! Oh yeah, I GET Hollywood and the behavior of the 'suits.' Know all about it and how big and widespread it is. But, for instance, I just don't for the life of me get how a Louis C.K. could risk and destroy his career by giving into this weird need to masturbate in front of women.

I had a girl who wanted me to do that and I was like, I can't do that, honey. It's too fucking personal. How about you do it for me and we'll both watch.

Now I do have a fucked up immature sense of humor. Obviously. But by the time I was in my mid-20s I was in positions of responsibility, running my own band, etc. and I wouldn't have even dreamed of uttering a word that would have jeopardized my fucking livelihood and all the money and dreams I had invested in being a fucking musician who actually gets PAID? Please. Jesus.

Anyway. Back to the topic. I think we're really on the right track here. Expose and fire and keep going until we've cleaned house in industry after industry. But I'm telling you all right now, NOTHING you will see is like this. These people are among the most powerful people in this country. Harvey Weinstein and Matt Lauer and Charlie Rose would have all been right there at Hillary Clinton's victory party in November had she won. I said a while back the Democratic Party is funded by people who everyone here who hates Republicans would hate just as much as the Koch Brothers. Well, here they are. Meet the Cock Brothers.


Where's the copyright symbol again? Wink


jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 11/30/17 2:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:

But who the hell ever thought it was ok to drop trou in front of someone? That is such a completely bizarre notion to me. I've never heard of or thought of such a thing.


Amen, brother. I got long LIST of shit I want to do with a woman and that one has never even crossed my mind.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 11/30/17 6:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:

But who the hell ever thought it was ok to drop trou in front of someone? That is such a completely bizarre notion to me. I've never heard of or thought of such a thing.


Amen, brother. I got long LIST of shit I want to do with a woman and that one has never even crossed my mind.


Then you don't have the mind of Bill Clinton, who as governor of Arkansas had state troopers bring women to his hotel rooms.

One was Paula Jones. Clinton dropped trou and told Jones to "kiss it". She bolted in revulsion, subsequently sued Clinton for sexual harassment, and eventually prevailed in a $850,000 settlement. Along the way, Clinton got impeached for perjury and obstruction of justice, was fined $90,000 by a federal judge for lying and other contempt of court, and lost his law license.

And Paula Jones wasn't even the most egregious charge against Clinton. Juanita Brodderick has claimed for 20 years that Clinton violently assaulted and raped her.

Yet, the "feminist" movement and the entire left wing machine not only defended and excused Clinton (and still does), not only disbelieved and marginalized all the women who came out against him, but they (including Hillary Clinton) affirmatively slut-shamed and bullied the victimized women. In a famous New York Times op-ed in 1998, feminist icon Gloria Steinem dismissed Clinton's actions toward Paula Jones (and Kathleen Willey) as nothing more than "a clumsy sexual pass," after which Clinton essentially honored women because "the President took 'no' for an answer." The New York Times has reportedly purged Steinem's article from its archives, but it can still be found and is currently being discussed again.

I agree that none of this behavior by powerful men is new, but is simply now being widely reported. I further don't expect it to stop. After the current bubble of purge passes, after Hollywood and Congress and the media congratulate themselves about a few firings and rule changes, powerful men will continue to use their power for sexual conquest.

Moreover, today there is a greatly diminished societal support structure to model and mold the behavior of young boys and girls. Largely gone are two-parent homes with extended families, embedded in consistent and non-relative community morals, and immersed in a strong matrix of religious training. Today, we have millions of partially parent-less kids, alone in secular technological anomie, with graphic pornography on view screens that are ever-present in their hands.
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PostPosted: 11/30/17 6:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Today, we have millions of partially parent-less kids, alone in secular technological anomie, with graphic pornography on view screens that are ever-present in their hands.

Amd yet this type of behavior is far less frequent amongst the younger generations. The young are much more socially aware of their behavior and the inherent sexism that defines us older generations.



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 11/30/17 7:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
Today, we have millions of partially parent-less kids, alone in secular technological anomie, with graphic pornography on view screens that are ever-present in their hands.

Amd yet this type of behavior is far less frequent amongst the younger generations. The young are much more socially aware of their behavior and the inherent sexism that defines us older generations.


That would be nice, but I don't know what your empirical basis is for saying it.

The very young are not yet in the positions of power that enable their sexual appetites to run amok. I'd be very surprised if the sexual behavior of tomorrow's kings, generals, politicians, business executives, directors, actors, news anchors, and rock stars is any different from all the preceding generations throughout history. (And I hope there's a way I find out.)
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