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Lieberman Award

 
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pilight



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PostPosted: 11/06/17 3:23 pm    ::: Lieberman Award Reply Reply with quote

http://www.hoophall.com/news/basketball-hall-of-fame-announces-candidates-for-2018-nancy-lieberman-award/

Quote:
The Naismith Memorial Basketball Hall of Fame announced today the 20 watch list candidates for the 2018 Nancy Lieberman Award



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pilight



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PostPosted: 01/29/18 4:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Narrow Watch List for 2018 Nancy Lieberman Award

http://www.hoophall.com/news/naismith-memorial-basketball-hall-of-fame-womens-basketball-coaches-association-narrow-watch-list-for-2018-nancy-lieberman-award


This list pisses me off. The only mid-major is Jessica Kovatch from St. Francis (PA), who is not a point guard. She's averaging 2.3 assists per game with a negative ATO. She's third on her team in assists. Meanwhile there's a real PG who's third in the country in assists, first in ATO, and who was on the preliminary list but is now missing. The least they could do is make the token mid-major someone who looks like a serious choice.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 01/29/18 4:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Narrowed down to 10 candidates

PLAYER NAME SCHOOL
Kia Nurse Connecticut
Lexie Brown. Duke
AJ Alix Florida St.
Katelynn Flaherty. Michigan
Kelsey Mitchell Ohio St.
Sabrina Ionescu Oregon
Jessica Kovatch St. Francis (PA)
Tiana Mangakahia Syracuse
Brooke McCarty Texas
Jordin Canada UCLA



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Queenie



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PostPosted: 01/29/18 5:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In what universe is Kelsey Mitchell a point guard?

pilight's brought up Kovatch as well, so I'm not going to repeat his point.

If they're going to have position awards for all five positions, they should really actually be for players who play the listed position.



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PostPosted: 01/29/18 5:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Kia Nurse might arguably be the best or most valuable player on UConn this season so far, but she's not the point guard except very occasionally. She's fourth on the team in assists.
WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 01/29/18 6:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I guess there just throwing out names of players to avoid it being obviously Ionescu's award to lose Laughing



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Fighting Artichoke



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PostPosted: 01/29/18 7:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
In what universe is Kelsey Mitchell a point guard?

pilight's brought up Kovatch as well, so I'm not going to repeat his point.

If they're going to have position awards for all five positions, they should really actually be for players who play the listed position.


This is not uncommon, sadly. Remember when Sims won it for Baylor when their PG was great passer Niya Johnson?


Queenie



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PostPosted: 01/29/18 10:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Fighting Artichoke wrote:
Queenie wrote:
In what universe is Kelsey Mitchell a point guard?

pilight's brought up Kovatch as well, so I'm not going to repeat his point.

If they're going to have position awards for all five positions, they should really actually be for players who play the listed position.


This is not uncommon, sadly. Remember when Sims won it for Baylor when their PG was great passer Niya Johnson?


Oh, I know it's usually been an award for "that guard whose name we actually know", but the addition of the four other positional awards highlights the stupidity of their selections this time 'round.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 01/29/18 11:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
I guess there just throwing out names of players to avoid it being obviously Ionescu's award to lose Laughing


Ionescu should win. She's a great player.

I'm just extra salty because my team has one of the best PGs in the nation in Sydni Means. She's not gonna play at the next level because she's listed at 5'5 and in reality is only slightly taller than her own bobblehead. She's having a great year and is leading the team to one as well. 8.5 assists to 1.8 turnovers per game, the best ratio in the country. She deserves to be a finalist for this award.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 01/30/18 1:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Plum got it last year which leads me to believe Mitchell will get it this year and Ionescu can have it the next two years.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 01/30/18 1:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:

Sydni Means


I look at the D1 stats three or four times a week and I've been noticing her for over a month. Mercer has one of the top assisters, one of the top 3pt makers, and a great W-L record so far.
SDHoops



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PostPosted: 01/30/18 1:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I remember in 2004 when Nancy talked on a halftime show about Taurasi getting it, she said even though Conlon was the designated point, she considered Taurasi the playmaker in crunch time.


calbearman76



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PostPosted: 01/30/18 2:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The bigger problem is trying to categorize each player into 1,2,3,4 or 5. Players fit into a team and the rolls of each player are determined not only by their own skills but by the players around them.

The Lieberman Award was originally given to the player who exemplifies "the floor leadership, play-making and ball-handling skills that personified Nancy Lieberman during her career." That at least gives a definition.

Now it is folded into a group of 5 awards, and as such is designated as a point guard award.

SDHoops wrote:
Quote:
I remember in 2004 when Nancy talked on a halftime show about Taurasi getting it, she said even though Conlon was the designated point, she considered Taurasi the playmaker in crunch time.


Taurasi met the original definition, even if she wasn't always the "point guard."

It seems the Lieberman award should maintain its original criteria, and then make the Drysdale award the best guard not nominated for the Lieberman Award award.


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PostPosted: 01/30/18 8:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
I guess there just throwing out names of players to avoid it being obviously Ionescu's award to lose Laughing


Ionescu should win. She's a great player.

I'm just extra salty because my team has one of the best PGs in the nation in Sydni Means. She's not gonna play at the next level because she's listed at 5'5 and in reality is only slightly taller than her own bobblehead. She's having a great year and is leading the team to one as well. 8.5 assists to 1.8 turnovers per game, the best ratio in the country. She deserves to be a finalist for this award.


Mercer has a good team this year. I've seen a few of their games. Is this the best team they've had recently?



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pilight



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PostPosted: 01/30/18 8:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
pilight wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
I guess there just throwing out names of players to avoid it being obviously Ionescu's award to lose Laughing


Ionescu should win. She's a great player.

I'm just extra salty because my team has one of the best PGs in the nation in Sydni Means. She's not gonna play at the next level because she's listed at 5'5 and in reality is only slightly taller than her own bobblehead. She's having a great year and is leading the team to one as well. 8.5 assists to 1.8 turnovers per game, the best ratio in the country. She deserves to be a finalist for this award.


Mercer has a good team this year. I've seen a few of their games. Is this the best team they've had recently?


It's probably the best team we've ever had.



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Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 01/30/18 1:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Kia Nurse might arguably be the best or most valuable player on UConn this season so far, but she's not the point guard except very occasionally. She's fourth on the team in assists.


Well she does seem to be getting the most open looks this year and knocking them down Laughing


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PostPosted: 01/30/18 1:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Narrowed down to 10 candidates

PLAYER NAME SCHOOL
Kia Nurse Connecticut
Lexie Brown. Duke
AJ Alix Florida St.
Katelynn Flaherty. Michigan
Kelsey Mitchell Ohio St.
Sabrina Ionescu Oregon
Jessica Kovatch St. Francis (PA)
Tiana Mangakahia Syracuse
Brooke McCarty Texas
Jordin Canada UCLA


i told you it was a whackadoodle year.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 01/30/18 1:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
cthskzfn wrote:
pilight wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
I guess there just throwing out names of players to avoid it being obviously Ionescu's award to lose Laughing


Ionescu should win. She's a great player.

I'm just extra salty because my team has one of the best PGs in the nation in Sydni Means. She's not gonna play at the next level because she's listed at 5'5 and in reality is only slightly taller than her own bobblehead. She's having a great year and is leading the team to one as well. 8.5 assists to 1.8 turnovers per game, the best ratio in the country. She deserves to be a finalist for this award.


Mercer has a good team this year. I've seen a few of their games. Is this the best team they've had recently?


It's probably the best team we've ever had.


Mercer is currently the #1 team in the country in ATO ratio.

https://www.ncaa.com/stats/basketball-women/d1/current/team/472
pilight



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PostPosted: 01/30/18 3:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

calbearman76 wrote:
It seems the Lieberman award should maintain its original criteria, and then make the Drysdale award the best guard not nominated for the Lieberman Award award.


That's part of the problem as well. The token mid-major on the Drysdale short list is Darby Maggard from Belmont, who is a point guard.



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readyAIMfire53



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PostPosted: 01/30/18 4:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Narrowed down to 10 candidates

PLAYER NAME SCHOOL
Kia Nurse Connecticut
Lexie Brown. Duke
AJ Alix Florida St.
Katelynn Flaherty. Michigan
Kelsey Mitchell Ohio St.
Sabrina Ionescu Oregon
Jessica Kovatch St. Francis (PA)
Tiana Mangakahia Syracuse
Brooke McCarty Texas
Jordin Canada UCLA


Sabrina or Katelynn for me. Lexie Brown is NOT a point guard. She's a scoring guard who likes to have the ball in her hands



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#Occasionalwnbafan



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PostPosted: 01/30/18 7:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
I guess there just throwing out names of players to avoid it being obviously Ionescu's award to lose Laughing


Bird was the only Sophomore to win it and she did it 3 times after that, as good as Ionescu is she's not Sue Bird good, I think Mitchell will win the award.
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PostPosted: 01/30/18 7:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So this is now the award for "The Best-Known Guard"?



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PostPosted: 01/30/18 7:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mitchell is fairly characterized as a point guard. She often brings the ball up, she controls the offense with her ball domination (for better or worse), is the team's leader in assists (94 to Doss' 74), and is second on the team in ATO ratio.
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PostPosted: 01/30/18 9:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

#Occasionalwnbafan wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
I guess there just throwing out names of players to avoid it being obviously Ionescu's award to lose Laughing


Bird was the only Sophomore to win it and she did it 3 times after that, as good as Ionescu is she's not Sue Bird good, I think Mitchell will win the award.


She might be better than Sue Bird *gasp*... just not on a championship team. If you do consider Oregon a championship team, it’s mostly because of Ionescu.



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PostPosted: 02/01/18 11:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

#Occasionalwnbafan wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
I guess there just throwing out names of players to avoid it being obviously Ionescu's award to lose Laughing


Bird was the only Sophomore to win it and she did it 3 times after that, as good as Ionescu is she's not Sue Bird good, I think Mitchell will win the award.


Welp, if you win as a sophomore, you only have two more years. Not sure how you measure greatness, but setting the record for triple doubles as a sophomore is pretty damn good.

And speaking of playing on a non-championship contender...there's Kelsey Mitchell at Exhibit A. Ohio State now projected out of the top 16 hosting teams. Kelsey's a terrific scorer and she's held back in developing as more of a complete player by her coach.



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