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Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 10/05/17 9:27 pm    ::: IU Offers 8th Grader Reply Reply with quote

6' tall 8th grader.

Quote:
“I look at Candace Parker, Maya Moore,” Patterson said. “I think how they’re tall but can also stay out on the wing and dribble. They move around the court and don’t just stay at center.”



http://wane.com/2017/10/05/fort-wayne-middle-schooler-ayanna-patterson-receives-offer-from-indiana/



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summertime blues



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PostPosted: 10/09/17 1:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ridiculous, stupid, and shouldn't be allowed.



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PostPosted: 10/09/17 1:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

summertime blues wrote:
Ridiculous, stupid, and shouldn't be allowed.


Which is yet another reason for high school players (and below) to be permitted to have agents.

Why should a family be pressured into something like this when they very likely have no real idea about the landscape? If any youngster gets approached by a college coach, she should have the option to get professional advice.

For any other academic or extracurricular field, families can go to professionals for help (independent college counselors). Why not for athletics?

We all know the answer to that, of course -- if families and athletes realized their true value in this billion-dollar industry, they would rightfully ask for more of the pie, and freedom from the restrictions that apply only to athletes, and not to drama students, musicians or administrators.

This kind of a change would also make coaches much more accountable, as their behavior would be part of information available to any agent, and thus to any family.



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 10/09/17 6:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The family can just say No... no commitment until she's a jr/sr in high school. No one is forcing them to do this.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 10/09/17 6:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
The family can just say No... no commitment until she's a jr/sr in high school. No one is forcing them to do this.


But the point is that families have no clue as to the system or how it works. They are purposefully kept in the dark by the colleges that run the NCAA.

Let them talk to a professional -- what would be the harm?



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Ex-Ref



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PostPosted: 10/09/17 7:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
The family can just say No... no commitment until she's a jr/sr in high school. No one is forcing them to do this.


But the point is that families have no clue as to the system or how it works. They are purposefully kept in the dark by the colleges that run the NCAA.

Let them talk to a professional -- what would be the harm?



That may have been true years ago. If an athlete is good enough in 8th grade to attract this type of attention, they have resources available to them to help them through the recruiting process. School coach, AD, AAU coach, friends, parents of friends, hangers-on and this little thing called the internet. It's not a blind process like you're trying to make it.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 10/10/17 9:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ex-Ref wrote:
ClayK wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
The family can just say No... no commitment until she's a jr/sr in high school. No one is forcing them to do this.


But the point is that families have no clue as to the system or how it works. They are purposefully kept in the dark by the colleges that run the NCAA.

Let them talk to a professional -- what would be the harm?



That may have been true years ago. If an athlete is good enough in 8th grade to attract this type of attention, they have resources available to them to help them through the recruiting process. School coach, AD, AAU coach, friends, parents of friends, hangers-on and this little thing called the internet. It's not a blind process like you're trying to make it.


I've been involved in girls' basketball for a long time, and the amount of cluelessness about the realities of college basketball cannot be overestimated.

Generally, high school administrators and coaches know little about the system, unless they're coaching at a school that has produced a lot of Division I and Power 5 players -- and you can count the number of those on two hands.

Club coaches have their own agendas -- for example, the club team that has the girl with the offer from Indiana can now go out and recruit players by saying "Look what we can do for your daughter." Of course, that may be a terrible choice for the girl, but it's a great choice for the club.

Along the same lines, many club coaches push their players to accept Power 5 scholarships, even if they'd be better off at a mid-major, because it will bring in more young girls who pay the full price. "We have five players in the Big 10" is much better marketing than "We have four players in the MAC."

It's also true that many club coaches really don't know much about the recruiting process, especially a smaller club that has only had a few recruits.

Parents know almost nothing, and the same with the people around the game who are not involved with colleges. The system is designed by colleges for the benefit of colleges, and the college coaches understand it because they've been doing it for years. Parents and the people around them go through this once, and they don't know the process until they go through it -- and then their daughter is already in college.

This is not to say that an agent of some sort won't have his or her own agenda, but getting help from someone who really understands the system and doesn't benefit as directly from pushing kids to the highest level possible wouldn't hurt. Again, what's the harm?

Or look at it this way: Why is the NCAA afraid of agents? Because they would prevent colleges from manipulating the system as much as they do now.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 10/10/17 9:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:


For any other academic or extracurricular field, families can go to professionals for help (independent college counselors). Why not for athletics?


My partner is an independent college counselor. Families pay, at minimum, $150 an hour for his services. That number is higher for certain services. It is a service for families who have a lot of money to spend getting their children to college and further exacerbates economic disparities in college admissions. Let's just say these families aren't looking for help to get into Arizona State or Northern Illinois.

Trust me, no one is paying to be told they should go to a MAC school instead of a Big Ten school.

Expand a similar service to athletics, and how is it paid for? As you like to point out, there isn't money in women's basketball like there is in men's. A WCBB agent wouldn't be able to provide service for a percentage of future earnings like a men's basketball, so you are totally dependent on families just paying out of pocket. Now you have a college recruiting process where wealthy players get to play on a totally different field than and get all manner of potential advantage over poorer families.

And if you are worried about unscrupulous coaches looking out for themselves, why in the world you not think that agents would be unscrupulous and looking out for themselves. To use your own hat agent wouldn't want to be able to say "I got 5 girls into the Big Ten" rather than "I got 5 girls into the MAC." Or worse, taking families' money and providing no value.

You may be right that this should be banned by the NCAA, but I see no way that adding agents to the recruiting process helps all but the most elite and wealthiest players. Instead, you will end up with a bunch of families at a disadvantage because they can't afford a $150 an hour (or more) for what is likely to be shoddy and unscrupulous service.


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PostPosted: 10/10/17 10:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

But again, what would it hurt? Why can't high school athletes seek out advice?

All your points are well-taken, but the more knowledge available, the better for the players.

As it is, the NCAA hoards the knowledge so its members have a huge advantage over people who do not understand the process. Why not see if the market would develop in such a way that more information was available to players? And if doesn't, who has been hurt?

Why not? Except to protect the NCAA from the possibility that families might understand the system better.



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PostPosted: 10/10/17 10:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
And if doesn't, who has been hurt?



Only the players.


FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 10/10/17 10:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Then maybe the onus should be on the NCAA to provide the information to prospective college athletes and their families. That would remove biased and/or fee-for-service entities from the mix, and ensure that accurate information about the recruiting rules is disseminated. I personally find the NCAA website to be far from helpful...a lot of information is difficult to find and incomprehensible to an average reader. This http://www.ncaa.org/student-athletes/future/recruiting isn't helping anyone. A user-friendly, downloadable E-booklet could be very useful for families, and on the first allowable contact (say soph year), the coach has to obtain signatures from the student and parents that they've received and read the booklet. Maybe include some anonymous vignettes from college players about recruiting issues they've encountered. Or something. The procedural details might differ, but make the NCAA responsible for educating its future students it's supposed to serve about its own rules.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 10/10/17 11:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
The family can just say No... no commitment until she's a jr/sr in high school. No one is forcing them to do this.


But the point is that families have no clue as to the system or how it works. They are purposefully kept in the dark by the colleges that run the NCAA.

Let them talk to a professional -- what would be the harm?


They can talk to all the "professionals" that they want. They just can't sign contracts with sports agents whose job it is to negotiate and sign professional contracts.

The "professionals" these girls need to talk to are professional guidance counselors, teachers, principals, and others knowledgeable of and trained to help them guide their academic and college future - not sports agents.

If they choose to just listen to their AAU coach and not to the people at their school, well, then whose fault is that?

But hey, I'm sure JayZ is the perfect person to ask about the best universities for studying biochemistry and what courses to take in high school to be best prepared and best positioned to get admitted. Rolling Eyes


ClayK



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PostPosted: 10/10/17 1:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
The "professionals" these girls need to talk to are professional guidance counselors, teachers, principals, and others knowledgeable of and trained to help them guide their academic and college future - not sports agents.


The professional guidance counselors know zippo about the realities of college recruiting, and in California, there is one counselor for about every 700 students -- so don't look there.

Teachers know nothing about recruiting, and neither do principals -- if they had time.

In short, families are thrown to the mercies of a system they don't understand, and no one has any motivation to help them understand it.

Finally, why are highly paid college coaches better advisors to students -- who they are trying to manipulate -- than agents? What would be wrong with a certified agent being able to help?

Quote:
Then maybe the onus should be on the NCAA to provide the information to prospective college athletes and their families. That would remove biased and/or fee-for-service entities from the mix, and ensure that accurate information about the recruiting rules is disseminated


Oh, the NCAA -- I trust them to do right by high school kids. They do such a good job of protecting them right now.

The NCAA is an organization funded by and for the benefit of its member colleges, who have every reason to want to keep their workers underinformed and poorly paid. The adage about the fox and the henhouse comes into play here ...

Again, what is the harm if a few high school kids get good advice, advice that is very hard to come by now? Why would the NCAA prohibit such advice? You can get advice for academics, but not athletics? Why?



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 10/10/17 2:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Where did I say anything about relying on college coaches. The only ones with more of a self interest are the agents you want them to rely upon.

And this is supposed to be about choosing a college. What exactly do agents know about college admissions, academic programs, academic prerequisites, engineering, science, French literature, accounting, human resource management, or any other academic subject.

Yep, ALL kids applying to colleges have problems getting reliable information about preparing, applying, and selecting a college.

The remarkable thing is that you've picked out for this advisory role one of the few groups of people even less qualified, less objective, and less concerned about the welfare of the student than the people doing it today.


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PostPosted: 10/10/17 8:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
The family can just say No... no commitment until she's a jr/sr in high school. No one is forcing them to do this.


This!

I mean, maybe the school just wants to say, "Hey Girl....we see you, and we're impressed", and begin a (simple!) dialogue. I can't imagine there's all THAT much heat coming from a simple gesture like this, and that this child will be marred but said gesture.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 10/10/17 11:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

what's the big deal. She can't sign for several more years and until then anything can happen.
Isn't there also a limit on how much contact a college can have at this early age?



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 10/11/17 8:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The young woman in question has received offers from 6 additional, unnamed schools.
http://www.news-sentinel.com/sports/top-sports/2017/10/05/local-basketball-star-has-a-chance-to-be-so-much-more/


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PostPosted: 10/11/17 10:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This kid has lots of support in place that can help her navigate through the recruiting process, from coaches to others in the community. No one needs to fear that she will be taken advantage of.

However, carry on with the agent talk. I know my 8th grade son would be very concerned about that...forget the awkward 8th grade dances, preparing for his basketball season, having sleepovers with his friends, the acne that is developing on his face, the occasional breaks in his voice, etc. Seriously...


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PostPosted: 10/11/17 1:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tanque Verde freshman Kiya Dorroh has 5 Pac-12 basketball offers before 1st game

http://www.azcentral.com/story/sports/high-school/recruiting/2017/10/10/tanque-verde-freshman-kiya-dorroh-has-5-pac-12-basketball-offers-before-1st-game/751086001/

She has yet to play a high school game, but has multiple Pac-13 offers.


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PostPosted: 10/12/17 8:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I hate to break this to you. This has been going on for years. You know your favorite WNBA or college player was offered as 8th grader. It is how the cycle is ran now. No more damage than before. We only hear about or know about because of social media age now. The proverbial "I'm blessed to have received a offer from ____ State". I don't know how many of you played college ball, coached AAU/high school or raised scholarship athletes.But families have to learn to navigate for the kid. Kids announce what school they committed to by videos on social media. They think it cool even though we don't.


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PostPosted: 11/06/17 10:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

6'7" eighth grade boy.

Quote:
But the eighth-grader at Clague Middle School in Ann Arbor, Michigan, has already found himself in the middle of a debate about how young is too young to offer a scholarship. He's one of the most highly touted players in the Class of 2022 and one of three already promised a scholarship by DePaul University in Chicago.


http://wsbt.com/sports/content/8th-grader-a-minimum-3-years-away-from-college-hoops-signing



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PostPosted: 11/07/17 1:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Tanque Verde freshman Kiya Dorroh has 5 Pac-12 basketball offers before 1st game


She produces her own series of highlight videos.

<iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/IAb3vMAkzg4" frameborder="0" gesture="media" allowfullscreen></iframe>
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