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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 21045
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Posted: 10/02/17 2:35 am ::: Mass Shooting in Las Vegas |
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Automatic weapons fire from a high hotel floor directed at an outdoor concert on the Strip with approximately 35K attendees. Near the Mandalay Bay. So far two dead plus one shooter. 26 wounded. There are reports of multiple sites and shooters but I’m not hearing that on the absolutely ... IDK I don’t even have words to describe the sound of that automatic weapon and to know that some animal is aiming that into a crowd of tens of thousands.
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 21045
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Posted: 10/02/17 3:49 am ::: |
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20+ dead, over 100 injured, many critical. Still assessing the casualties.
Shooter killed on 32nd floor of Mandalay Bay. He was local. Not named yet. Looking for a female companion. Marilou Danley. Asian decent. 4’11”. 110lbs.
What a horror. So weird to be watching this breaking and developing starting before midnight on a mundane Sunday evening. Outrageous.
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 21045
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Posted: 10/02/17 5:44 am ::: |
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Deadliest mass shooting in modern US history now with over 50 dead and 200 plus injured.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004 Posts: 18013 Location: Queens
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Posted: 10/02/17 7:01 am ::: |
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jammerbirdi wrote: |
Deadliest mass shooting in modern US history now with over 50 dead and 200 plus injured. |
This is a record I really wish we'd stop breaking.
_________________ All your Rebecca are belong to the Liberty.
(now with spelling variations)
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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Posted: 10/02/17 7:06 am ::: |
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Damn
_________________ Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9543
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Posted: 10/02/17 7:14 am ::: |
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I clicked on an article and before I could click it off I heard a cell phone video of the shots. Maybe not as fast as a machine gun you hear in the movies, but very fast. Sad that it is legal to have that kind of firepower.
Some woman at the concert said a 5 foot tall couple she felt was Hispanic was telling one or more people they were going to die before they got kicked out. The girlfriend is Asian, but 4'11 and could pass for Hispanic. But the shooter is not in the 5 foot range and doesn't look Hispanic.
Edit: They report that his "companion" is out of the country.
Edit: Now I see the witness says the woman was about 5'5" and nothing is given for the height of the male. It appears that only one woman is reporting this, even though she quote her as saying "you're all going to f$&@ing die".
Last edited by tfan on 10/02/17 9:08 am; edited 2 times in total |
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66773 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 10/02/17 7:28 am ::: |
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tfan wrote: |
I clicked on an article and before I could click it off I heard a cell phone video of the shots. Maybe not as fast as a machine gun you hear in the movies, but very fast. Sad that it is legal to have that kind of firepower. |
If it was a full automatic, then it's not legal
_________________ Let us not deceive ourselves. Our educational institutions have proven to be no bastions of democracy.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010 Posts: 9543
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Posted: 10/02/17 8:50 am ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
I clicked on an article and before I could click it off I heard a cell phone video of the shots. Maybe not as fast as a machine gun you hear in the movies, but very fast. Sad that it is legal to have that kind of firepower. |
If it was a full automatic, then it's not legal |
How fast does a semi-automatic fire, that is,how many times a second? I think I heard a couple a second, but maybe someone else can verify that as I don't want to do a second listen.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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Posted: 10/02/17 9:04 am ::: |
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I'm not sure of the legal definition of semi/automatic.
I always thought if you held the trigger and more than 1 round fired, it was auto, while a semi required a trigger pull to discharge each round.
If the above is accurate, it sounded like auto fire to me. I claim no experience w/ these things, however.
But, to pilight's point, thank god for non-registration, non-background check, max-round clip, and open carry laws which allow for such weapons to be legal because hunters need such weapons to bag a deer.
God bless the NRA, a great patriotic organization.
_________________ Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 10/02/17 9:28 am ::: |
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Right on que ISIS has claimed responsibility and claimed the shooter converted to Islam a couple months ago.
I suppose it's possible, but I have a certain scepticism that a 64 year old retired white guy from the Vegas suburbs was acting for ISIS.
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StevenHW
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 10979 Location: Sacramento, California
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StevenHW
Joined: 25 Jul 2005 Posts: 10979 Location: Sacramento, California
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Stonington_QB
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 Posts: 755 Location: Siege Perilous
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Posted: 10/02/17 11:42 am ::: |
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cthskzfn wrote: |
But, to pilight's point, thank god for non-registration, non-background check, max-round clip, and open carry laws which allow for such weapons to be legal because hunters need such weapons to bag a deer.
God bless the NRA, a great patriotic organization. |
I don't mean to spoil your celebration / opportunity to politicize, but what happens if it comes out that this guy was one of your own (Anti-Trump extremist)? What if he was part of a terrorist group (Antifa, ISIS)? Or if the weapons used in the shooting were acquired illegally? Are you still going to blame the NRA? Will you continue to blame the Second Amendment? Probably!
Let's make a few things clear: 1) You clearly demonstrated that you have no concept of why the Second Amendment was created (it had nothing to do with hunting deer) 2) Law-abiding citizens who own guns (such as myself) would never even DREAM of doing something like this, and 3) You don't give a rip about the people who were killed. This was just another opportunity to echo left-wing talking points that you heard coming from your highly questionable sources of information.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15690 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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Posted: 10/02/17 11:49 am ::: |
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God Bless America.
I still say that, with our abundance of weapons and crazy people, the only surprising thing is that this doesn't happen every other weekend. What a soft target! And how does one stop THAT kind of insanity??
_________________ Oregon: Go Ducks!
"Inévitablement, les canards voleront"
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8151 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 10/02/17 1:15 pm ::: |
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Machine gun ownership is permitted under federal law and the laws of most states, provided they were manufactured, registered or imported prior to 1986. They are highly collectible and very valuable.
https://www.redcircletactical.com/machine-gun-ownership.html
It is the 2nd Amendment to founding document of our country as interpreted in multiple Supreme Court opinions, not the NRA, that provides that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed by the federal or any state or local government. This right has nothing at all to do with hunting. It is based on the personal right of self-defense and resistance to oppression, which long antedated our Constitution in English common law and in natural law, and is not limited to weapons in existence as of the time the Constitution was adopted. |
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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 8833
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Posted: 10/02/17 2:16 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
tfan wrote: |
I clicked on an article and before I could click it off I heard a cell phone video of the shots. Maybe not as fast as a machine gun you hear in the movies, but very fast. Sad that it is legal to have that kind of firepower. |
If it was a full automatic, then it's not legal |
What I heard on TV this morning is that it isn't hard to get some kind of kit to convert a semi to an automatic.
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And the kinds of devices that would make that possible are readily available — relatively cheaply on the internet — even to people who can't qualify to buy an automatic weapon. |
To another question:
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USA TODAY reviewed the video and counted more than 10 shots fired per second. |
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2017/10/02/expert-las-vegas-shooter-may-have-used-trigger-crank/723236001/
_________________ "Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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Stonington_QB
Joined: 05 Jul 2013 Posts: 755 Location: Siege Perilous
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Posted: 10/02/17 2:31 pm ::: |
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Ex-Ref wrote: |
What I heard on TV this morning is that it isn't hard to get some kind of kit to convert a semi to an automatic. |
Not sure where you heard that, but that is not accurate whatsoever. Those kits you speak of require an FFL, so it's not like you just order one off the Internet. It requires registering and will put you on a list (not the kind of list you want to be on either). The only way around an FFL with a select fire kit (or even an auto-fire kit which is less expensive) is to buy an 80% kit and finish it yourself. So either he underwent a federal background check, or he got an 80% kit. Based on the information coming out about this guy, I'm guessing the latter. 80% kits are not foolproof and require some precision on the user's end to complete, otherwise you end up making something that will just blow your hand off. Also, 80% kits are legal to buy, but once you finish them, they are of questionable legality once installed.
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Genero36
Joined: 24 Apr 2005 Posts: 11188
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004 Posts: 19725
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Posted: 10/02/17 7:25 pm ::: |
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Stonington_QB wrote: |
cthskzfn wrote: |
But, to pilight's point, thank god for non-registration, non-background check, max-round clip, and open carry laws which allow for such weapons to be legal because hunters need such weapons to bag a deer.
God bless the NRA, a great patriotic organization. |
I don't mean to spoil your celebration / opportunity to politicize, but what happens if it comes out that this guy was one of your own (Anti-Trump extremist)? What if he was part of a terrorist group (Antifa, ISIS)? Or if the weapons used in the shooting were acquired illegally? Are you still going to blame the NRA? Will you continue to blame the Second Amendment? Probably!
Let's make a few things clear: 1) You clearly demonstrated that you have no concept of why the Second Amendment was created (it had nothing to do with hunting deer) 2) Law-abiding citizens who own guns (such as myself) would never even DREAM of doing something like this, and 3) You don't give a rip about the people who were killed. This was just another opportunity to echo left-wing talking points that you heard coming from your highly questionable sources of information. |
Yeah, let's just pray the mass shootings away.
_________________ “Anyone point out that a Donald Trump anagram is ‘Lord Dampnut’”- Colin Mochrie
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 5152 Location: Carson City
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Posted: 10/02/17 7:40 pm ::: |
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I posted this on my WNBA odds thread, but I thought I would copy the relevant part here as well:
"And now a word on the shootings in my home state, We have had too many of these events like this. I find it abhorrent in any form, but I also am troubled that the reporting of this event seems to stay away from the term "terrorism," presumably because he is a white American. This is terrorism, plain and simple. It is also one more example of the problem with guns in this country. I know that the NRA always says that when an event like this it is not the time to make a political statement, but I can say two things at once. First, I feel terrible for all the dead and injured as well as their friends and family, as well as all the performers and fans in attendance whose lives have been affected by this tragedy. Second, this is the time to finally get meaningful gun control, do away with the "gun show" loophole, increase vigilance on checks for gun sales and licensing and better mental health checks and coordination with law enforcement to ensure keep guns out of the hands of people who shouldn't have them . We have seen that it doesn't matter whether you are at a school (Newtown, Columbine), a University (Virginia Tech), a club (Orlando), a concert (Las Vegas), or a social services center (San Bernardino). Mass shootings are all too common, and while each particular event has some different facts, one fact is always present - guns. Let's do something now so we have fewer of these events going forward."
Let me add that we should also include controls on internet sales as well.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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Posted: 10/02/17 9:47 pm ::: |
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Stonington_QB wrote: |
cthskzfn wrote: |
But, to pilight's point, thank god for non-registration, non-background check, max-round clip, and open carry laws which allow for such weapons to be legal because hunters need such weapons to bag a deer.
God bless the NRA, a great patriotic organization. |
I don't mean to spoil your celebration / opportunity to politicize, but what happens if it comes out that this guy was one of your own (Anti-Trump extremist)? What if he was part of a terrorist group (Antifa, ISIS)? Or if the weapons used in the shooting were acquired illegally? Are you still going to blame the NRA? Will you continue to blame the Second Amendment? Probably!
Let's make a few things clear: 1) You clearly demonstrated that you have no concept of why the Second Amendment was created (it had nothing to do with hunting deer) 2) Law-abiding citizens who own guns (such as myself) would never even DREAM of doing something like this, and 3) You don't give a rip about the people who were killed. This was just another opportunity to echo left-wing talking points that you heard coming from your highly questionable sources of information. |
You're really gonna use talking points from the NRA playbook to try to gain moral high ground here? Seriously? Do you have any original thoughts? Your lame attempt to vilify me by saying I have no sympathy for the victims and that I am celebrating another heinous mass shooting is bullshit. Sorry, you don't get to do that.
To your other non-points, whether or not the shooter was ISIS, a Bernie voter, or just another radical white Christian and indeed bought the guns illegally, the NRA is still a POS POLITICAL organization more interested in profiteering off the misery of US citizens than supporting common sense ownership guidelines and weaponry restrictions that would help reduce that misery.
So no shit, the 2nd Amendment wasn't about shooting deer??!! Lol. Who knew?! The point you missed is that no private US citizen needs an automatic long gun. For what purpose- target practice? Nah. Here's were the Don't Tread On Me freaks talk about protecting themselves, wives, and kids from a tyrannical government. Spare me the Alex Jones paranoid bullshit.
I have nothing against guns, per se. Nothing wrong with a citizen owning a gun to protect his home or using one as a hunter. These are normal things. Assault weapons, auto rifles, 30-round clips, silencers, no background checks, no restrictions on the mentally ill, etc, are the issues where the NRA earns it label as a scumbag, profit-over people POS political organization.
It has its members so fucked up that whenever a Democratic candidate is elected POTUS, they run out and buy another couple guns because "They're comin' for our guns!".
_________________ Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8151 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 10/02/17 11:58 pm ::: |
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calbearman76 wrote: |
I also am troubled that the reporting of this event seems to stay away from the term "terrorism," presumably because he is a white American. This is terrorism, plain and simple. |
Simply as a semantic point, mass murder is not necessarily terrorism.
While definitions have varied over time, "terrorism", a word that originates from the French Revolution's "reign of terror", connotes an act of violence specifically intended to induce ongoing psychological fear (terror) in order to further some identifiable political, religious or ideological goal of the violent actor. By engaging in acts of physical or psychological violence, the terrorist is telling people other than his direct victims that "this could happen to you" unless you accept, submit to, or stop opposing his political, religious or ideological agenda.
There is no evidence yet that the Las Vegas shooter was motivated by ideological goals. Nor was there such evidence in the Newtown, Connecticut, mass murder.
This semantic distinction doesn't make the incident any less horrible, except in the sense that a non-terrorist mass murder ends with the killing or capture of the murderer, whereas a terrorist mass murder will likely be repeated by other other fanatical adherents of the political, religious or ideological movement in order to keep a reign of terror ongoing.
Last edited by GlennMacGrady on 10/03/17 12:12 am; edited 1 time in total |
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 21045
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Posted: 10/03/17 12:00 am ::: |
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How about horrorism.
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 5152 Location: Carson City
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Posted: 10/03/17 2:48 am ::: |
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GlennMacGrady wrote: |
Simply as a semantic point, mass murder is not necessarily terrorism.
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The semantics are actually important in this case. Not all mass murder is necessarily terrorism. For instance an individual who intends to kill family members, coworkers or schoolmates may have that as a primary basis for a mass shooting, and that is not terrorism. But Nevada law has a clear definition of terrorism: "The use or attempted use of sabotage, coercion or violence which is intended to cause great bodily harm or death to the general population."
There is no question that under that definition this is quintessential terrorism. Even if we never find out exactly what the shooter was thinking, his purpose was clearly in keeping with that definition. And more importantly in my mind the effect will be to change behavior for some people due to a perceived danger (i.e., to terrorize them).
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