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Ex-Ref
Joined: 04 Oct 2009 Posts: 8833
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Posted: 09/27/17 10:29 pm ::: Hugh Hefner Dies |
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Just reported as breaking news on the local news.
http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/27/media/hugh-hefner/index.html?adkey=bn
_________________ "Women are judged on their success, men on their potential. It’s time we started believing in the potential of women." —Muffet McGraw
“Thank you for showing the fellas that you've got more balls than them,” Haley said, to cheers from the crowd.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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Posted: 09/28/17 8:27 am ::: |
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A great American, in spite of his fixation on big boobs.
_________________ Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
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Luuuc #NATC
Joined: 10 Feb 2005 Posts: 21900
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Posted: 09/28/17 8:43 am ::: |
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R.I.P gross old man.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66773 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 09/28/17 8:56 am ::: |
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The articles are also good
_________________ Let us not deceive ourselves. Our educational institutions have proven to be no bastions of democracy.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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Posted: 09/28/17 9:32 am ::: |
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Some were distracted by pics of naked women and missed the worthwhile fiction, editorial and socially pertinent content. It's possible most of them weren't interested.
_________________ Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
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Howee
Joined: 27 Nov 2009 Posts: 15690 Location: OREGON (in my heart)
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005 Posts: 8151 Location: Heisenberg
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Posted: 09/28/17 9:19 pm ::: |
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Hef was perhaps the most effective single person social justice warrior of my lifetime. He and his magazine jump started and propelled the "sexual revolution" beginning in the mid-'50's and climaxing in the pornucopia of today's culture.
I'm not saying this was a good thing for society, and in fact I think it has been very detrimental, but as an individual Hef was relentlessly effective in steering the direction.
In college I lived on $10 a week, but like everyone else in an all men's college I managed to save enough to buy Playboy once in a while. Copies got passed around the dorm.
I remember one night in New Jersey in the late 60's, when I was a door-to-door encyclopedia saleman, I saw this giant bunny head flying in the air. It was the all black Playboy jet against an the all black sky, but with an illuminated bunny head on the tail fin. |
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 8407 Location: Northfield, MN
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Posted: 09/28/17 10:00 pm ::: |
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Great article that sums up the complicated legacy of Hef.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/28/opinions/hugh-hefner-legacy-has-a-dark-side-drexler/index.html
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But it's also worth pointing out, in the spirit of the sort of open cultural dialogue he worked his whole life to encourage, that Hefner's egalitarian society was one largely envisioned and created for men.
The terms of his rebellion undeniably depended on putting women in a second-class role. It was the women, after all, whose sexuality was on display on the covers and in the centerfolds of his magazine, not to mention hanging on his shoulder, practically until the day he died.
Hef's notion of the freedom to express sexuality translated largely into freedom to express men's desire for women, and the fantasy that those women would be always ready and eager to comply. |
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 21045
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Posted: 09/28/17 10:37 pm ::: |
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That's not a great article. It could have been written by a college kid at a liberal school in his or her junior year. Let's admit that much before we even take on the rest of what I have to say.
Okay, smart people that I know you are, I'm sure if you read that article you would agree. Could have been written by a student intern. And that's a problem. This is how far we've come down into the morasss of nothingness that a simple 'here's both sides of the Hef legacy' piece comes off as a great article.
No reporter on the ground with deep knowledge or sources. Some flavor from an ex-playmate/girlfriend that could have been found in five minutes of looking online (if that.) Dark side of Hef and the Playboy empire? lol. Untouched. Not necessarily Hef's fault specifically, but he was a catalyst. He brought people together who wanted to be together. He provided the playground and the bait. Vegas does the same for zillions who want to play everything from slot machines to their rat pack fantasies.
It's called vice and it appeals to people's oldest and most timesless vices. People get on and then find it's hard to get back off. How you gonna keep them down on the farm once they've seen town, and all that. Drugs, money, glitz, sleaze, and eventually, for some, exhaustion personal destruction.
Even if you run your local version of Cheers you're going to serve alcoholics.
On the other hand it's so hard to overstate how impactful Playboy's presence was on the cultural revolutions put in motion during the 60s and 70s. Playboy got many things wrong, drugs, comes foremost to my mind there. But the magazines of the 60s and 70s were the most subversive things ever published in any country ever, imo. So whatever was happening on the ground in Hef's orbit no one can ever take away that impact he had on all of our lives.
Last edited by jammerbirdi on 09/28/17 10:58 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 21045
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Posted: 09/28/17 11:02 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
The articles are also good |
The articles, in their time, were amazing. Lots of short fiction, too. The stuff that wouldn't have made it into the too snooty Atlantic or New Yorker. At least not at that time.
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 8407 Location: Northfield, MN
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Posted: 09/28/17 11:50 pm ::: |
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jammerbirdi wrote: |
That's not a great article. It could have been written by a college kid at a liberal school in his or her junior year. Let's admit that much before we even take on the rest of what I have to say.
Okay, smart people that I know you are, I'm sure if you read that article you would agree. Could have been written by a student intern. And that's a problem. This is how far we've come down into the morasss of nothingness that a simple 'here's both sides of the Hef legacy' piece comes off as a great article.
No reporter on the ground with deep knowledge or sources. Some flavor from an ex-playmate/girlfriend that could have been found in five minutes of looking online (if that.) Dark side of Hef and the Playboy empire? lol. Untouched. Not necessarily Hef's fault specifically, but he was a catalyst. He brought people together who wanted to be together. He provided the playground and the bait. Vegas does the same for zillions who want to play everything from slot machines to their rat pack fantasies.
It's called vice and it appeals to people's oldest and most timesless vices. People get on and then find it's hard to get back off. How you gonna keep them down on the farm once they've seen town, and all that. Drugs, money, glitz, sleaze, and eventually, for some, exhaustion personal destruction.
Even if you run your local version of Cheers you're going to serve alcoholics.
On the other hand it's so hard to overstate how impactful Playboy's presence was on the cultural revolutions put in motion during the 60s and 70s. Playboy got many things wrong, drugs, comes foremost to my mind there. But the magazines of the 60s and 70s were the most subversive things ever published in any country ever, imo. So whatever was happening on the ground in Hef's orbit no one can ever take away that impact he had on all of our lives. |
It was a very good article because it struck at the heart of what Hef was about. And we should laud him for what he was able to accomplish in many different cultural areas. But we have a tendency to paint people in terms of good/bad, hero/villain. Yet most people, Hef included, defy such a binary. While Hef should certainly be lauded for his accomplishments, we should also be mindful of the exploitative nature that surrounded him and his company. Playboy was all about the male gaze. As the article pointed out, it was all about empowering male sexuality, the male fantasy. The world it creates is one where pussygrabbers are elected president, where women are there to be ogled, where when we turn on tv there is yet another sitcom with a fat, ugly male lead paired up with some beautiful woman, while the opposite is never seen. While it was not my area of specialization, thus I teach nothing more than a quick overview of it when I teach introduction to post-structuralism, feminist critical theory deals a lot with these issues and the author demonstrates a good handle of it, without getting too deeply academic as to lose her readers.
And if anyone else has read the book by Holly Madison that was noted in the article, they would be in 100% agreement with luuuc's assessment earlier. Gross old man indeed.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004 Posts: 12851 Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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Posted: 09/29/17 12:05 am ::: |
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jammerbirdi wrote: |
pilight wrote: |
The articles are also good |
The articles, in their time, were amazing. Lots of short fiction, too. The stuff that wouldn't have made it into the too snooty Atlantic or New Yorker. At least not at that time. |
It's true. People who do the wink/nod on that sell it short. And those who pigeon-hole HH as some old perv sell him short as well.
One cartoon I still remember: The scene: Looking out from the deck of a Pilgrim ship as it reaches the New World. A priest, w/ an angry look on his face, is holding a bible in his hand. He gazes at the shoreline and sees peaceful natives going about their daily routine of cooking fish, making baskets, etc. The women are bare-breasted. Enraged, he proclaims: DON'T WORRY! WE'LL CLEAN UP THIS MESS!
_________________ Silly, stupid white people might be waking up.
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 21045
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Posted: 09/29/17 3:02 am ::: |
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justintyme wrote: |
jammerbirdi wrote: |
That's not a great article. It could have been written by a college kid at a liberal school in his or her junior year. Let's admit that much before we even take on the rest of what I have to say.
Okay, smart people that I know you are, I'm sure if you read that article you would agree. Could have been written by a student intern. And that's a problem. This is how far we've come down into the morasss of nothingness that a simple 'here's both sides of the Hef legacy' piece comes off as a great article.
No reporter on the ground with deep knowledge or sources. Some flavor from an ex-playmate/girlfriend that could have been found in five minutes of looking online (if that.) Dark side of Hef and the Playboy empire? lol. Untouched. Not necessarily Hef's fault specifically, but he was a catalyst. He brought people together who wanted to be together. He provided the playground and the bait. Vegas does the same for zillions who want to play everything from slot machines to their rat pack fantasies.
It's called vice and it appeals to people's oldest and most timesless vices. People get on and then find it's hard to get back off. How you gonna keep them down on the farm once they've seen town, and all that. Drugs, money, glitz, sleaze, and eventually, for some, exhaustion personal destruction.
Even if you run your local version of Cheers you're going to serve alcoholics.
On the other hand it's so hard to overstate how impactful Playboy's presence was on the cultural revolutions put in motion during the 60s and 70s. Playboy got many things wrong, drugs, comes foremost to my mind there. But the magazines of the 60s and 70s were the most subversive things ever published in any country ever, imo. So whatever was happening on the ground in Hef's orbit no one can ever take away that impact he had on all of our lives. |
It was a very good article because it struck at the heart of what Hef was about. And we should laud him for what he was able to accomplish in many different cultural areas. But we have a tendency to paint people in terms of good/bad, hero/villain. Yet most people, Hef included, defy such a binary. While Hef should certainly be lauded for his accomplishments, we should also be mindful of the exploitative nature that surrounded him and his company. Playboy was all about the male gaze. As the article pointed out, it was all about empowering male sexuality, the male fantasy. The world it creates is one where pussygrabbers are elected president, where women are there to be ogled, where when we turn on tv there is yet another sitcom with a fat, ugly male lead paired up with some beautiful woman, while the opposite is never seen. While it was not my area of specialization, thus I teach nothing more than a quick overview of it when I teach introduction to post-structuralism, feminist critical theory deals a lot with these issues and the author demonstrates a good handle of it, without getting too deeply academic as to lose her readers.
And if anyone else has read the book by Holly Madison that was noted in the article, they would be in 100% agreement with luuuc's assessment earlier. Gross old man indeed. |
Come on. I'm just talking about the journalism. You're a professor. You would give this writing assignment in every freshman class, or, if you're dealing with sophomores and above, you would EXPECT them to be able to produce a paper that contrasts and compares both sides of an issue as this one does. That's all this is. I'm sure it makes you happy. As an educator it hits all the markers you'd expect to see.
But it doesn't compare to say... the Vanity Fair article detailing the assassination of Kim Jong Un's half-brother right now. Or so many other pieces. Look at David Brooks's taking apart of Donald Trump in his last many articles. Many of his articles also do a contrast and compare analysis of Trump. But the result is scathing. Illuminating. This is none of that.
If your title is about the dark side of Hugh Hefner's 'legacy' then why are you even wasting your time on the old tug of war fact that he made a magazine geared to ogling naked females? That's not the 'dark side' of Playboy, lemme tell you. That's just the basis of the feminist accusation of sexism and objectification of females.
Off the subject of the dark side of Playboy and Hef's legacy...
It's been a long time since we talked about sex 'round here. lol. jammer-style. That was before your time, justin. And I have a lot of new material in my act.
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 21045
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013 Posts: 14550
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Posted: 09/29/17 9:42 am ::: |
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justintyme wrote: |
Great article that sums up the complicated legacy of Hef.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/28/opinions/hugh-hefner-legacy-has-a-dark-side-drexler/index.html
Quote: |
But it's also worth pointing out, in the spirit of the sort of open cultural dialogue he worked his whole life to encourage, that Hefner's egalitarian society was one largely envisioned and created for men.
The terms of his rebellion undeniably depended on putting women in a second-class role. It was the women, after all, whose sexuality was on display on the covers and in the centerfolds of his magazine, not to mention hanging on his shoulder, practically until the day he died.
Hef's notion of the freedom to express sexuality translated largely into freedom to express men's desire for women, and the fantasy that those women would be always ready and eager to comply. |
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Better article on this subject -
https://amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2017/09/28/hugh-hefner-death-playboy-womens-rights?xid=amp-fortune
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 8407 Location: Northfield, MN
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Posted: 09/29/17 10:08 am ::: |
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ArtBest23 wrote: |
justintyme wrote: |
Great article that sums up the complicated legacy of Hef.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/09/28/opinions/hugh-hefner-legacy-has-a-dark-side-drexler/index.html
Quote: |
But it's also worth pointing out, in the spirit of the sort of open cultural dialogue he worked his whole life to encourage, that Hefner's egalitarian society was one largely envisioned and created for men.
The terms of his rebellion undeniably depended on putting women in a second-class role. It was the women, after all, whose sexuality was on display on the covers and in the centerfolds of his magazine, not to mention hanging on his shoulder, practically until the day he died.
Hef's notion of the freedom to express sexuality translated largely into freedom to express men's desire for women, and the fantasy that those women would be always ready and eager to comply. |
|
Better article on this subject -
https://amp.timeinc.net/fortune/2017/09/28/hugh-hefner-death-playboy-womens-rights?xid=amp-fortune |
That was also excellent.
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