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jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21045



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PostPosted: 09/27/17 5:57 am    ::: This is All Bullshit Reply Reply with quote

I figure this NFL thing deserves its own thread.

This cover kind of makes Donald Trump look like a hero.



Why you ask. I'll get to that in a second. Let's take a sampling of the opinions this cover was met with on Twitter, etc.

Mike @MrCockyHill
Replying to @SInow
Uhh I think you accidentally put a picture of Roger Goodell where you meant to put Kaepernick. Might want to fix that before you go to print
5:50 AM - Sep 26, 2017
2 2 Replies 2 2 Retweets 57 57 likes

RonGloverII @RonGloverII
Replying to @SInow
@Kaepernick7 is not on the cover?!?!? #SpeaksVolumes pic.twitter.com/ODcWa9Bbyc
6:25 AM - Sep 26, 2017
2 2 Replies 7 7 Retweets 48 48 likes

Satin Dents @SatbyNature
Replying to @SInow
Where’s Colin Kaepernick? You know, the one who started it all?! Nice try SI. You still failed.
6:09 AM - Sep 26, 2017
3 3 Replies Retweets 25 25 likes

Cattan @CattanScience
Replying to @SInow
How is Colin Kaepernick not included on this cover??
7:22 AM - Sep 26, 2017

My personal favorite.

El Flaco ✔ @bomani_jones
this can't be real
5:36 AM - Sep 26, 2017

And yet, it is real. JUST fucking think about exactly how real this cover is. It's Sports Illustrated. Let's not argue about that, huh? Oh, let me further interrupt myself with some choice paragraphs from Deadspin, which actually nailed to the wall the points I've been making the last 48 hours.

This is All Bullshit

Unity. That’s the name of the detergent that Roger Goodell, the owners, and the most desperate stooges in the media are going to use to scrub this Trump vs. Sports mess until all that’s left is a shiny, useless bauble. We’re already well on our way. The NFL is literally using this for brand marketing.

For as much as the events of the past weekend were framed as Trump going to war with the NFL, our bum of a president did Roger Goodell and the league a huge favor. All they had to do was release a few limp-dick statements tsk-tsking Trump’s comments for their divisiveness, come up with a few meaningless shows of pseudo-solidarity like we saw in Arizona last night, and poof: Suddenly the anthem protests aren’t about a very specific set of problems plaguing this country, but about “unity,” a cause more hollow than anything 25 branding execs could ever dream up in a conference room. Roger Goodell is on the cover of Sports Illustrated. Colin Kaepernick isn’t.

The worst irony here may be the way the NFL’s new marketing initiative not only appropriates the protests, but perverts their meaning. Kaepernick’s protest and the ones that followed were divisive, and were meant to be: That was the point, to ask people to choose sides, and to direct their attention to what’s going on in the real world beyond sports. Goodell and the owners, in asking everyone to come together around the cause of the NFL itself, have done what they always do, and made what they’ve touched cheaper and smaller.




The NFL loves nothing more than a hollow branding opportunity. Just look at the self-satisfaction on the face of Cowboys owner Jerry Jones when he knelt, uselessly, with his team before the performance of last night’s national anthem. That’s the look of a man who knows he’s taken something that has nothing to do with him and turned it to his own ends.

So getting back to this Sports Illustrated cover and why I think Donald Trump can take a hero slice of red velvet cake this evening. I'll keep it short.

By now, many are the sports fans and writers who can see what the NFL was up to this past Sunday. As this last Deadspin article so eloquently demonstrates. So what. Kind. Of a world. Are we living in when Sports Illustrated can put together that photo-collage including Roger Fucking Goodell and NO Colin Kaepernick, and say that the sports world is UNITED? Shocked What kind of world are we living in, I ask you guys? Really? It's like THAT?!?!

Well, if Donald Trump didn't bring this shit to a boil over the weekend, we wouldn't have this cover and ALL that this cover reveals.

I still wish he'd have kept his big fucking mouth shut. He's thrown my beloved football team into a tailspin from which they are going to have to work miracles to recover from.

One more fucking time. There was a war going on in the sports world. It was between athletes who were supporting Colin Kaepernick and questioning and PROTESTING his not being on a roster this year... and the NFL, the owners and Roger Goodell.

A Cold war? Yeah, okay.

Sometimes a little hot, but make no mistake, that little teapot was fixing to blow with or without Donald Trump. This is a thing, or WAS a thing, that was very real and very much between the NFL and its players, more black players than white, and athletes and journalists from across the spectrum.

Donald Trump stepped into the demilitarized zone of this WAR and said, essentially, HEY, don't forget about me. I may be white orange and blonde but I'm still the biggest black hole of assholery in the universe and I want some of this, too.

And, like probably more than a few presidents before, he initiated a hot war in a place where there was only saber rattling. Nobody got killed. (Well, except for the Pittsburgh Steelers. I'll get to that in a minute. But Thank YOU Mr. Trump!Mad) But from the very start of Sunday's games it was clear to me that the NFL was going to run and hide behind its players protests AT the president's remarks and in the process the league was attempting to co-opt this situation and use it for all they can get out of it.

The deep irony of this entire situation is all of this is happening while Kaepernick himself is unemployed, and owners who refused to give him a chance because of his protest, now stand, arms linked, in protest to Trump saying that protesters should be fired.

I've got so many tabs open I don't even know where that one came from. Embarassed

One more time back to SI. Really? They are SO dialed in to the realities of the sports world. THEY know ALL of this! So well. But we can now clearly see that they are part of some kind of this world where people are trying to control the thinking of Americans on even subjects like this. I can understand serious political ECONOMIC issues and how we will always be at the mercy of those who can afford to use the press to their own ends. But Sports Illustrated? UNITY? Unbelievable.

Let me finish by updating you guys on the situation in Pittsburgh. It's bad as I predicted it would be. The Steelers were victims of their own stupidity, some cowardice, an honorable desire to focus on football, and some really bad luck. I won't make the meme. But it's been rattling around in my head for the last few days and finally the exact wording and images popped in my head while I was in the shower earlier tonight.

Who will stand with our Veterans?



Not the Pittsburgh Steelers



So what's happening in the Pittsburgh area? Let's see. Burning tickets and jerseys and gear. But you have to understand, as I'm sure many of you WNBA hammerheads will, this means stuff like... you know... people have put together SHRINES in their homes. Cars are painted in Steelers colors, etc.

BARS which normally host game days and all that on the big screens are going to be CLOSED on Sunday. Shocked People from where I come from don't know anything about money nor do they care all that much to learn. But THIS is something else. These are businesses and they are down for taking a big hit in their week.

Like I said in an earlier post, the Steelers came up with the worst possible 'solution' to the dilemma that they were facing. And, to be fair, it was all way way out of their league. But they made a mistake and then they had the incredible bad luck of having their war vet stand out there with not a Pittsburgh Steeler willing to stand beside him. That's how it will be seen and written about and remembered forever by the people of Western PA, West VA, Ohio, etc. (Especially Ohio)

Mike Tomlin. He is going to have a very uncomfortable future, and maybe not that long of one, in Pittsburgh. That's unfortunate. He's a good guy and a great coach, IMO.

Here's what he should have told his players. (And NOT going out for the anthem shouldn't have even come up.)


If I could stop you guys from taking a knee out there today during the anthem, if I had that authority, I would do it. But I don't know if I have the legal ability to order you to do that. But that's what I would do. But here's what I will tell you. If even one of you guys takes a knee during the national anthem, you are going to blow up our football season. The people of the Pittsburgh area will turn on this franchise, make no mistake about that. Not all of them, but MORE than enough of them. And this season where we were positioning ourselves as maybe the strongest contender in the AFC to go to the Super Bowl, will be in a shambles. So I can't stop you, but I want you to know that you will be blowing up our season.


Now if we were the Niners and our team sucked like that, I would say do whatever you think is right. It's your asses not mine.

But for Tomlin the rule of unintended consequences rose up and bit him in the ass. That was the Villanueva thing. What would have been magic for Tomlin would have been if he'd just saw what was happening and trotted out and stood next to the guy. Oh well. The Steelers will never fire him. Ever. But he's going to find Pittsburgh to be bad fit going forward.

There is a way out! I've said this many times in the past few days, maybe even here already.

The NFL must hold a press conference. Goodell. Couple of owners, players (black players) Coach Tomlin, a couple of Steelers, and Colin Kaepernick. And the shit goes down as such.

Goodell: We are sorry. To everyone. We have heard and understand the issues that inspired Colin to take the stand he did and that he was not alone in his feelings. We have heard the players and so have all of you.

But we are a football league, first and foremost. So we also must apologize to and beg the forgiveness of every single fan, loyal flag-waving Americans, who were offended by the initial protests and everything that has happened in the last week. Without taking anything away from these players and the seriousness of their outcry which we all have heard and acknowledge, we simply must put this all to rest as a league whose purpose is to entertain and thrill and take people's minds of all the things in the world that we all at times need a break from.

Such as politics.

So we ask that our apologies to the fans and all Americans who were offended by all that has happened be accepted. We ask that Colin be included in your forgiveness. All Americans should respect free speech and understand that we don't all have the same perspectives and concerns over issues that affect all of us differently.

We are reinstating Colin and we've asked the Pittsburgh Steelers to keep him on their roster as he is given the time to return to form.

We also would like to now ensure the fans of this league that what has happened in the last two seasons will never happen again. No players will be permitted to use their positions in this high-profile sport and their time on camera to engage in any form of political demonstration or protest. Should that happen we will not take away that player's job, but we will instead fine that player an amount equal to his yearly salary. IF he does it again he will forfeit a second year's salary. If he does it for another game than we will be forced to permanently ban that player from the NFL.

Anyway. I think that would and is one of the only honest ways out of this mess. Because right now, the Steelers aren't the only team that's going to take a hit. The NFL is sitting on the precipice, IMO. Could be wrong, but I haven't been so far.




Last edited by jammerbirdi on 09/27/17 2:53 pm; edited 2 times in total
Catch24Rules



Joined: 22 Apr 2005
Posts: 231
Location: Texas


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PostPosted: 09/27/17 9:45 am    ::: Re: This is All Bullshit Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
I figure this NFL thing deserves its own thread.

This cover kind of makes Donald Trump look like a hero.



Why you ask. I'll get to that in a second. Let's take a sampling of the opinions this cover was met with on Twitter, etc.

Mike @MrCockyHill
Replying to @SInow
Uhh I think you accidentally put a picture of Roger Goodell where you meant to put Kaepernick. Might want to fix that before you go to print
5:50 AM - Sep 26, 2017
2 2 Replies 2 2 Retweets 57 57 likes

RonGloverII @RonGloverII
Replying to @SInow
@Kaepernick7 is not on the cover?!?!? #SpeaksVolumes pic.twitter.com/ODcWa9Bbyc
6:25 AM - Sep 26, 2017
2 2 Replies 7 7 Retweets 48 48 likes

Satin Dents @SatbyNature
Replying to @SInow
Where’s Colin Kaepernick? You know, the one who started it all?! Nice try SI. You still failed.
6:09 AM - Sep 26, 2017
3 3 Replies Retweets 25 25 likes

Cattan @CattanScience
Replying to @SInow
How is Colin Kaepernick not included on this cover??
7:22 AM - Sep 26, 2017

My personal favorite.

El Flaco ✔ @bomani_jones
this can't be real
5:36 AM - Sep 26, 2017

And yet, it is real. JUST fucking think about exactly how real this cover is. It's Sports Illustrated. Let's not argue about that, huh? Oh, let me further interrupt myself with some choice paragraphs from Deadspin, which actually nailed to the wall the points I've been making the last 48 hours.

This is All Bullshit

Unity. That’s the name of the detergent that Roger Goodell, the owners, and the most desperate stooges in the media are going to use to scrub this Trump vs. Sports mess until all that’s left is a shiny, useless bauble. We’re already well on our way. The NFL is literally using this for brand marketing.

For as much as the events of the past weekend were framed as Trump going to war with the NFL, our bum of a president did Roger Goodell and the league a huge favor. All they had to do was release a few limp-dick statements tsk-tsking Trump’s comments for their divisiveness, come up with a few meaningless shows of pseudo-solidarity like we saw in Arizona last night, and poof: Suddenly the anthem protests aren’t about a very specific set of problems plaguing this country, but about “unity,” a cause more hollow than anything 25 branding execs could ever dream up in a conference room. Roger Goodell is on the cover of Sports Illustrated. Colin Kaepernick isn’t.

The worst irony here may be the way the NFL’s new marketing initiative not only appropriates the protests, but perverts their meaning. Kaepernick’s protest and the ones that followed were divisive, and were meant to be: That was the point, to ask people to choose sides, and to direct their attention to what’s going on in the real world beyond sports. Goodell and the owners, in asking everyone to come together around the cause of the NFL itself, have done what they always do, and made what they’ve touched cheaper and smaller.




The NFL loves nothing more than a hollow branding opportunity. Just look at the self-satisfaction on the face of Cowboys owner Jerry Jones when he knelt, uselessly, with his team before the performance of last night’s national anthem. That’s the look of a man who knows he’s taken something that has nothing to do with him and turned it to his own ends.

So getting back to this Sports Illustrated cover and why I think Donald Trump can take a hero slice of red velvet cake this evening. I'll keep it short.

By now, many are the sports fans and writers who can see what the NFL was up to this past Sunday. As this last Deadspin article so eloquently demonstrates. So what. Kind. Of a world. Are we living in when Sports Illustrated can put together that photo-collage including Roger Fucking Goodell and NO Colin Kaepernick, and say that the sports world is UNITED? Shocked What kind of world are we living in, I ask you guys? Really? It's like THAT?!?!

Well, if Donald Trump didn't bring this shit to a boil over the weekend, we wouldn't have this cover and ALL that this cover reveals.

I still wish he'd have kept his big fucking mouth shut. He's thrown my beloved football team into a tailspin from which they are going to have to work miracles to recover from.

One more fucking time. There was a war going on in the sports world. It was between athletes who were supporting Colin Kaepernick and questioning and PROTESTING his not being on a roster this year... and the NFL, the owners and Roger Goodell.

A Cold war? Yeah, okay.

Sometimes a little hot, but make no mistake, that little teapot was fixing to blow with or without Donald Trump. This is a thing, or WAS a thing, that was very real and very much between the NFL and its players, more black players than white, and athletes and journalists from across the spectrum.

Donald Trump stepped into the demilitarized zone of this WAR and said, essentially,HEY, don't forget about me. I'm still the biggest asshole in the country and I want some of this, too.

And, like probably more than a few presidents before, he initiated a hot war in a place where there was only saber rattling. Nobody got killed. (Well, except for the Pittsburgh Steelers. I'll get to that in a minute. But Thank YOU Mr. Trump!Mad) But from the very start of Sunday's games it was clear to me that the NFL was going to run and hide behind its players protests AT the president's remarks and in the process the league was attempting to co-opt this situation and use it for all they can get out of it.

The deep irony of this entire situation is all of this is happening while Kaepernick himself is unemployed, and owners who refused to give him a chance because of his protest, now stand, arms linked, in protest to Trump saying that protesters should be fired.

I've got so many tabs open I don't even know where that one came from. Embarassed

One more time back to SI. Really? They are SO dialed in to the realities of the sports world. THEY know ALL of this! So well. But we can now clearly see that they are part of some kind of this world where people are trying to control the thinking of Americans on even subjects like this. I can understand serious political ECONOMIC issues and how we will always be at the mercy of those who can afford to use the press to their own ends. But Sports Illustrated? UNITY? Unbelievable.

Let me finish by updating you guys on the situation in Pittsburgh. It's bad as I predicted it would be. The Steelers were victims of their own stupidity, some cowardice, an honorable desire to focus on football, and some really bad luck. I won't make the meme. But it's been rattling around in my head for the last few days and finally the exact wording and images popped in my head while I was in the shower earlier tonight.

Who will stand with our Veterans?



Not the Pittsburgh Steelers



So what's happening in the Pittsburgh area? Let's see. Burning tickets and jerseys and gear. But you have to understand, as I'm sure many of you WNBA hammerheads will, this means stuff like... you know... people have put together SHRINES in their homes. Cars are painted in Steelers colors, etc.

BARS which normally host game days and all that on the big screens are going to be CLOSED on Sunday. Shocked People from where I come from don't know anything about money nor do they care all that much to learn. But THIS is something else. These are businesses and they are down for taking a big hit in their week.

Like I said in an earlier post, the Steelers came up with the worst possible 'solution' to the dilemma that they were facing. And, to be fair, it was all way way out of their league. But they made a mistake and then they had the incredible bad luck of having their war vet stand out there with not a Pittsburgh Steeler willing to stand beside him. That's how it will seen and written about by the people of Western PA, West VA, Ohio, etc. (Especially Ohio)

Mike Tomlin. He is going to have a very uncomfortable future, and maybe not that long of one, in Pittsburgh. That's unfortunate. He's a good guy and a great coach, IMO.

Here's what he should have told his players. (And NOT going out for the anthem shouldn't have even come up.)


If I could stop you guys from taking a knee out there today during the anthem, if I had that authority, I would do it. But I don't know if I have the legal ability to order you to do that. But that's what I would do. But here's what I will tell you. If even one of you guys takes a knee during the national anthem, you are going to blow up our football season. The people of the Pittsburgh area will turn on this franchise, make no mistake about that. Not all of them, but MORE than enough of them. And this season where we were positioning ourselves as maybe the strongest contender in the AFC to go to the Super Bowl, will be in a shambles. So I can't stop you, but I want you to know that you will be blowing up our season.


Now if we were the Niners and our team sucked like that, I would say do whatever you think is right. It's your asses not mine.

But for Tomlin the rule of unintended consequences rose up and bit him in the ass. That was the Villanueva thing. What would have been magic for Tomlin would have been if he'd just saw what was happening and trotted out and stood next to the guy. Oh well. The Steelers will never fire him. Ever. But he's going to find Pittsburgh to be bad fit going forward.

There is a way out! I've said this many times in the past few days, maybe even here already.

The NFL must hold a press conference. Goodell. Couple of owners, players (black players) Coach Tomlin, a couple of Steelers, and Colin Kaepernick. And the shit goes down as such.

Goodell: We are sorry. To everyone. We have heard and understand the issues that inspired Colin to take the stand he did and that he was not alone in his feelings. We have heard the players and so have all of you.

But we are a football league, first and foremost. So we also must apologize to and beg the forgiveness of every single fan, loyal flag-waving Americans, who were offended by the initial protests and everything that has happened in the last week. Without taking anything away from these players and the seriousness of their outcry which we all have heard and acknowledge, we simply must put this all to rest as a league whose purpose is to entertain and thrill and take people's minds of all the things in the world that we all at times need a break from.

Such as politics.

So we ask that our apologies to the fans and all Americans who were offended by all that has happened be accepted. We ask that Colin be included in your forgiveness. All Americans should respect free speech and understand that we don't all have the same perspectives and concerns over issues that affect all of us differently.

We are reinstating Colin and we've asked the Pittsburgh Steelers to keep him on their roster as he is given the time to return to form.

We also would like to now ensure the fans of this league that what has happened in the last two seasons will never happen again. No players will be permitted to use their positions in this high-profile sport and their time on camera to engage in any form of political demonstration or protest. Should that happen we will not take away that player's job, but we will instead fine that player an amount equal to his yearly salary. IF he does it again he will forfeit a second year's salary. If he does it for another game than we will be forced to permanently ban that player from the NFL.

Anyway. I think that would and is one of the only honest ways out of this mess. Because right now, the Steelers aren't the only team that's going to take a hit. The NFL is sitting on the precipice, IMO. Could be wrong, but I haven't been so far.



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PostPosted: 09/27/17 10:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Phony patriotism display, vis a vie photo op of players on field for anthem, instituted w/ government money, brilliantly used to expose the hypocrisy in the society.

White racist America explodes with indignation.

Answer is to say "We're wrong for using this platform".

Nah.

If you're offended by Kaepernick taking a knee, you don't deserve the freedom you supposedly cherish.



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jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 09/27/17 12:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm always amazed when people don't take my advice. And, unfair asshole that I am, that's the case even when they haven't heard my advice. Wink

But I'm so shocked (but not really) that the NFL hasn't done this so obvious thing that I've suggested they do. Get out in front of this thing now, before it escalates. Or, I should say, before the escalation. Because that's the next phase.

When these fans, the ones burning jerseys and calling for a boycott, realize through the second weekend that they're not being listened to... that, as the Sports Illustrated cover I posted suggests, the millionaire and billionaire populated sports world has achieved a 'unity' that totally disregards their feelings (only, uh, where the millions and billions of dollars come from) about this kneeling during the anthem bit, that's when the cancer that this represents will really begin to spread. Booing will turn to empty seats. And more booing.

But these guys are the most arrogant and entitled people in this whole situation.

a) Not the players, who are working from a model that says high-profile athletes have a responsibility to speak up and act up in order to draw the nation's attention to what they see as injustices. But there are lines that can never be crossed. Don't spit in the customer's food in full view of the customer. The flag is, as I said, the most sacred representative object in our national identity. I think I said it better than that actually but that's all I have this morning. But right now, everybody has to lose something in order for everyone to win and the patriotic fans are going to have to acknowledge and, at least for what has already happened, accept and forgive what has already gone down. The athletes have to give the fans back their gesture of respect for that which the fans hold most sacred and the fans have to in turn accept and forgive the fact that the athletes were trying to make a statement about something they hold to be more important than football.

b) Not the fans who are angry, they are of the working and middle class who are called upon to FIGHT IN THE WARS which show no sign of ever ending. This is THEIR flag, their colors, the alter at which everyone in this country must bow their heads or else. We can all pretend these little better things in our liberal or left-leaning heads but that's all like the metaphor I used last week about hurricane warnings, strength categories, and how humans process that information with no grasp of the giant unknown realities they face. You can think it. Say it. Doesn't mean it's real. Reality is what we're seeing happening. Not what we indignantly think should be happening.

But the owners? And the league. Wow. That they actually tried to slide into this and use Donald Trump to shield the fact that they were the ones responsible for a festering anger on the part of the very players they now stand beside, in unity Rolling Eyes, against Donald Trump's villainy?

And now to Trump. Because people need to hear this, too. Trump has now become the thing we attach all that is wrong with the world to. The Boogie Man. It's all so dangerous and stupid and there's no better example why than this very one with the NFL situation. As long as we can even tangentially bring Donald Trump's name into an issue, we've GOT it. Fucking Trump! What'd he say this time? In an apparently more ironic time, it was a running joke to do the same with Nixon. Nixon was behind everything, went. The joke.

Joke, I say. Which is what many many people are becoming and more than a few have already been for going on the last two years. I think we could all do better by beginning to re-shift the blame back to where it always has been, in any case.

Even mother nature. Has Trump fucked up this Puerto Rico response? Yes. Absolutely. Somewhere, many places I'm sure, there are medivac helicopters sitting idol on helipads and in hangers. Ships that could have been on their way to PR before the storm even hit. Speeches should have been made demonstrating our nation's resolve and focus on the situation in PR.

But when Trump says PR is in the middle of an ocean, the entire anti-Trump human response mechanism cries out in laughter and derision. Really? Puerto Rico is 1000 miles from Miami. I flew 4 hours from Atlanta to San Juan and, I think, something like three to get back to Miami. Over water. Ocean. So again, Trump is inarticulate. Uses a system of metaphors that would make sense only to New York construction laborers and my sister-in-law Mickey. It's in the middle of the ocean! In the context of what Trump was saying, that is, you can't drive truckloads of supplies in like you did with Harvey and Irma, he's right. Is PR literally in the middle of any ocean? No. But come on, is PR in the middle of the fucking ocean? I've been there and that's a pretty good plainspeak description of the place.

What was Trump's role in Ferguson? Remember that? Months of protests about what happened to that kid? Was it Trump's racist justice department headed by Jeff Beauregard Southerner who found that the shooting was justified? No. It was Barack Obama's JD run by Eric Holder.

Did BLM form during the first months of Trump's presidency? Nope. They popped up back during the Obama administration. Did Colin Kaepernick first take a knee when white Donald Trump was sitting in the White House. No again!

I guess we are starting to become this thing we used to so decry. People who hysterically overstate and exaggerate reality for political purposes. And now it's just coming down to who can lie louder.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 09/27/17 2:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The players never did a good job of defining what they're protesting against. Just vagaries about injustice and inequality, as if these things were just discovered by Colin Kaepernick last year. Kneeling during the national anthem at a football game to protest is counterproductive and self aggrandizing. Instead of 'look at these issues', it becomes 'look at me'. Check the media coverage. It's not about the real issues, it's about the symbolic ones. Nobody is talking about unarmed kids getting killed by cops, they're talking about how athletes disrespect the nation or the flag. Plus, if we want to make some headway in solving these issues then there needs to be a dialogue. That won't happen if you start by figuratively spitting in the face of the people you need to have a dialogue with.



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jammerbirdi



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 09/27/17 2:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Check the media coverage. It's not about the real issues, it's about the symbolic ones. Nobody is talking about unarmed kids getting killed by cops, they're talking about how athletes disrespect the nation or the flag.


If only I could be that succinct.


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PostPosted: 09/27/17 3:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Check the media coverage. It's not about the real issues, it's about the symbolic ones. Nobody is talking about unarmed kids getting killed by cops, they're talking about how athletes disrespect the nation or the flag.


Of course. Why would corp. media do otherwise? It spent an entire election cycle on the bullshit topic of Clinton's emails while ignoring serious issues.



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PostPosted: 09/27/17 5:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
The players never did a good job of defining what they're protesting against. Just vagaries about injustice and inequality, as if these things were just discovered by Colin Kaepernick last year. Kneeling during the national anthem at a football game to protest is counterproductive and self aggrandizing. Instead of 'look at these issues', it becomes 'look at me'. Check the media coverage. It's not about the real issues, it's about the symbolic ones. Nobody is talking about unarmed kids getting killed by cops, they're talking about how athletes disrespect the nation or the flag. Plus, if we want to make some headway in solving these issues then there needs to be a dialogue. That won't happen if you start by figuratively spitting in the face of the people you need to have a dialogue with.


No, it's just that white people and the media did an excellent job of subverting the message of what the players were protesting and changed the meaning of it to outrage about patriotism and vets.

Kaepernick was pretty damn clear.

And it's what is going on now. The message has gone from being a BLM protest to one about unity and friendship against Donald. NFL pride. #vomits.

Donnie is still not the good guy though. Nice try. It's just a shit sandwich that some well meaning athletes got stuck between.



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PostPosted: 09/27/17 6:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
pilight wrote:
The players never did a good job of defining what they're protesting against. Just vagaries about injustice and inequality, as if these things were just discovered by Colin Kaepernick last year. Kneeling during the national anthem at a football game to protest is counterproductive and self aggrandizing. Instead of 'look at these issues', it becomes 'look at me'. Check the media coverage. It's not about the real issues, it's about the symbolic ones. Nobody is talking about unarmed kids getting killed by cops, they're talking about how athletes disrespect the nation or the flag. Plus, if we want to make some headway in solving these issues then there needs to be a dialogue. That won't happen if you start by figuratively spitting in the face of the people you need to have a dialogue with.


No, it's just that white people and the media did an excellent job of subverting the message of what the players were protesting and changed the meaning of it to outrage about patriotism and vets.

Kaepernick was pretty damn clear.

And it's what is going on now. The message has gone from being a BLM protest to one about unity and friendship against Donald. NFL pride. #vomits.

Donnie is still not the good guy though. Nice try. It's just a shit sandwich that some well meaning athletes got stuck between.



Yeah. To blame the athletes is quite the stretch. But, it's what they'll be comfortable with- instead of looking inward, it's so much easier (and gratifying) to blow them off with "anti-flag", "anti-veteran", "anti-anthem", and "anti-America" bullshit.

Listening to NY Sports Radio revealed the usual white bias.



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PostPosted: 09/27/17 6:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
pilight wrote:
The players never did a good job of defining what they're protesting against. Just vagaries about injustice and inequality, as if these things were just discovered by Colin Kaepernick last year. Kneeling during the national anthem at a football game to protest is counterproductive and self aggrandizing. Instead of 'look at these issues', it becomes 'look at me'. Check the media coverage. It's not about the real issues, it's about the symbolic ones. Nobody is talking about unarmed kids getting killed by cops, they're talking about how athletes disrespect the nation or the flag. Plus, if we want to make some headway in solving these issues then there needs to be a dialogue. That won't happen if you start by figuratively spitting in the face of the people you need to have a dialogue with.


No, it's just that white people and the media did an excellent job of subverting the message of what the players were protesting and changed the meaning of it to outrage about patriotism and vets.

Kaepernick was pretty damn clear.

And it's what is going on now. The message has gone from being a BLM protest to one about unity and friendship against Donald. NFL pride. #vomits.

Donnie is still not the good guy though. Nice try. It's just a shit sandwich that some well meaning athletes got stuck between.


Nobody said Trump was the good guy. There's no way he could be.

Kaeprnick's protest was always about unity.

http://ninerswire.usatoday.com/2016/08/28/transcript-colin-kaepernick-addresses-sitting-during-national-anthem/

Colin Kaepernick wrote:
We have to unite. We have to unify and make a change.


Kaep's goal is good, his method is bad. Sort of the same way he played football.



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PostPosted: 09/27/17 7:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<embed><iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/Pmtm-an5xJw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe></embed>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pmtm-an5xJw



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PostPosted: 09/27/17 7:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:


No, it's just that white people and the media did an excellent job of subverting the message of what the players were protesting and changed the meaning of it to outrage about patriotism and vets.


Okay. That is one way of looking at it. White people subvertin' and all that. Here's another way. What I would call what actually happened, as opposed to this more toxic reading that imbued 'white people' with this calculated plan of mass response to subvert and change the meaning of something.

How about they just can't ever accept any show of what they WOULD consider disrespect to the flag or the national anthem? Here it is again, as I've said it before and as maybe you don't really understand for some reason that your experience or your politics won't allow you to. The flag is the most sacred object, and the standing and taking your ball cap off etc. during the national anthem is the most sacred ritual in our collective national identity. Period. All you need to know! Maybe it wasn't always that way. But that's the way it is now.

You can't just shit on that and say you've got a good reason. Accept it. Because we say so. We're taking your most sacred stuff, and, incidentally, the thing that's most representative of what binds us together as a nation, and we're going to turn our backs to it, right up in your face. Now you just accept it or get control of your police departments nationwide and then we'll see about once again participating in your sacred national ritual.

Okay? This is what the people who are so pissed about this are so pissed about. Not some other reason that works better or fits a political narrative better for you or those who adhere to your ideologies etc. so that you all can overlay your version of people's motivations on top of these events. Now you're TELLING people, often very simple people, WHY they are actually doing what they're doing, and you're attaching racism and a calculated response, subverting a movement, etc. to what I am TELLING you is their honest. to. God. down to their bones reaction to what they are seeing.

It's like a form of paranoia but we know it isn't uncalculated on your end. Some people are probably paranoid but mostly there is an effort to deny people their true feelings and deny them the truth about their feelings. Similar to what happened in the presidential election. You're looking at them and saying, you don't feel the way you do. You feel something else. And you don't feel it for the reasons you're claiming to be feel it. You feel it for the reasons I'm TELLING you that you're feeling it. And that would be only to subvert and distort the meaning of this perfectly permissible (according to you) protest. You are telling them, as another poster here put it, that they're patriotism around this issue is PHONY.

I don't dispute Kaepernick's motivations or their sincerity whatsoever. I never said that dude was phony or that one famous black person standing up against police killings of black citizens was phony. I understand that people are pissed and have had enough. Say it in a press conference. Collect the biggest sports stars of the day and have an actual multi-day summit conference in NYC or Chicago to draw attention to the issues between the black community and the police. Stage and organize a sit out by every pro black athlete in America. I can get behind every single one of those actions and not one of them calls for disrespecting the American flag and the national anthem in the face of the paying customer Americans whose bat shit crazy support for YOU provides the incredible money that pays your salaries. Make the American people feel what you feel by doing something that they will hear and can get on your side with.

As pilight said, if you do something (well, my translation of what pilight said) so outside what people can accept as a protest, the meaning of your protest is lost. At this point in our history, so far from Vietnam and instead with 9/11 and two extremely long but relatively non-controversial wars fresh in our memories, we have become a nation that does this flag and national anthem stuff NO QUESTIONS ASKED. Or else. We have asked TOO MANY people from the lower and lower middle class to go off and fight wars or rush into buildings and into flames and all of what every good cop does and must face and all the people who are appreciative of all of that to not understand and respect that these rituals are our collective nod of appreciation, and too often the only one, wherein our nation shows that we remember and collectively thank these people.

That's what it means now. It's like their moment. We're about to all lose ourselves in this football game, safely in our homes or in the stands, in this amazingly safe country that is such because of the sacrifices of so many, and we're going to take a minute here and give the people WHO HAVE BOTH RISKED AND LAID DOWN THEIR LIVES to make it all possible, our appreciation.

If you don't see that, you don't understand America. I'm sorry.

I have to say, back to the getting people on your side thing. People here know how critical I was over Ferguson and BLM. But when Lebron James stood up I felt (felt, meaning my reaction was involuntary) compelled to put aside my resistance based on the circumstances of Ferguson and the birth of BLM and give a fresh look at the larger picture. Politics is about winning people over with your sincerity.

The rest is nothing but a pathway to chaos and disorder and division and destruction.

Because stupid people.


mercfan3 wrote:
Donnie is still not the good guy though. Nice try.


Yeah. That's what I was going for. Trump as the good guy. Not the winking sarcastic hook with a grain of truth thing that is only the most common rhetorical click bait trick in the entire internet universe.


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PostPosted: 09/27/17 7:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:

Kaep's goal is good, his method is bad. Sort of the same way he played football.


Don't you think he became distracted? Kaep is a super talent. Seriously. Professional football quarterback in the NFL takes a sort of physical genius and mental organization and focus, focus, focus. On preparation and on the game. Incredible amount of homework and preparation. He's already shown that he was capable of doing that work and his talents have already proven to be extraordinary. And then, gee, something happened. His effectiveness took a nosedive. Did he just suck all along or was it something else?

Shocked

I don't know if this dude can ever get back the focus. It's unfortunate. But this country now views him as such a toxic figure and he will face so much resistance that it's hard to imagine him ever being able to focus and prepare to be a standout quarterback again. But he did that to himself. Youth and extraordinary gifts are very often wasted on the young and dumb.


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PostPosted: 09/28/17 7:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I always thought Kaep was overrated. Jim Harbaugh found a way to make it work with him, because he's a great coach. Kaep is the latest in a long line of QBs who lucked into a superbowl without being all that good, like Vince Ferragamo or Rex Grossman.



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PostPosted: 09/28/17 11:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Count Curry among those unhappy with the way he was depicted and the decision to leave Colin Kaepernick off it altogether.

“That was terrible,” Curry said after his Golden State Warriors completed its practice Wednesday. “It’s just kind of capitalizing on the hoopla in the media and all of that nonsense. The real people that understand exactly what has been going on and who has really been active and vocal and truly making a difference.

“If you don’t have Kaepernick front and center on that, something is wrong. It’s kind of hard to see how certain narratives take place, being prisoners of the moment.

“But at the end of the day, that stuff really doesn’t matter. It’s about the true message really highlighting the people that are doing the right things.”


https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nba/%E2%80%98that-was-terrible%E2%80%99-stephen-curry-didn%E2%80%99t-care-for-this-week%E2%80%99s-sports-illustrated-cover/ar-AAsxZ7Q?ocid=mailsignout



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PostPosted: 09/28/17 1:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One thing Kaep said back when he started this protest always struck me. It's harder to get a cosmetology license than to become a police officer.

Here in Georgia, to get a cosmetology license you have to go to an accredited cosmo school for a year, then do 1500 hours of OJT supervised by someone who already has a license, then pass two proctored exams. Once you have the license, you have to do hours of continuing education every year to keep it.

To become a POST certified law enforcement officer you have to pass a background check and attend a police academy for 11 weeks. That's it. No independent evaluation, no ongoing education, no required supervised OJT. 11 weeks and you're certified to have a badge and a gun and take down bad guys.



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PostPosted: 09/28/17 5:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
One thing Kaep said back when he started this protest always struck me. It's harder to get a cosmetology license than to become a police officer.
Here in Georgia, to get a cosmetology license you have to go to an accredited cosmo school for a year, then do 1500 hours of OJT supervised by someone who already has a license, then pass two proctored exams. Once you have the license, you have to do hours of continuing education every year to keep it.

To become a POST certified law enforcement officer you have to pass a background check and attend a police academy for 11 weeks. That's it. No independent evaluation, no ongoing education, no required supervised OJT. 11 weeks and you're certified to have a badge and a gun and take down bad guys.


Well, Duhh. Rolling Eyes If you mess up as a police officer, you just shoot the unhappy customers on the pretext of them being dangerous. On the other hand, if you fuck up a jheri-curl, extensions or a highlighting job.....you are in deep shit. Shocked Shocked



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PostPosted: 09/28/17 7:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
One thing Kaep said back when he started this protest always struck me. It's harder to get a cosmetology license than to become a police officer.

Here in Georgia, to get a cosmetology license you have to go to an accredited cosmo school for a year, then do 1500 hours of OJT supervised by someone who already has a license, then pass two proctored exams. Once you have the license, you have to do hours of continuing education every year to keep it.

To become a POST certified law enforcement officer you have to pass a background check and attend a police academy for 11 weeks. That's it. No independent evaluation, no ongoing education, no required supervised OJT. 11 weeks and you're certified to have a badge and a gun and take down bad guys.


One of the very big reasons this conversation needs to be had.

I do think there is a little bit of an unfair demonization of police officers.

They didn't make the laws that unfairly target black people (Cocaine vs. Crack, for instance). They didn't make the rules to becoming a police officer. They don't prevent people who are supposed to hold them accountable from holding them accountable..and they certainly aren't responsible for the societal oppression of black people. There are some small towns in this country that still have segregated proms..and we don't think that shit is going to carry over into careers with power?

I strongly feel that part of helping to fix this situation is in education (in race, class and gender as well as in mental health), decreased hours and increased pay. The dual effects will be people will be trained better and higher quality individuals will become police officers.



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PostPosted: 09/28/17 7:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jammerbirdi wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:


No, it's just that white people and the media did an excellent job of subverting the message of what the players were protesting and changed the meaning of it to outrage about patriotism and vets.


Okay. That is one way of looking at it. White people subvertin' and all that. Here's another way. What I would call what actually happened, as opposed to this more toxic reading that imbued 'white people' with this calculated plan of mass response to subvert and change the meaning of something.

How about they just can't ever accept any show of what they WOULD consider disrespect to the flag or the national anthem? Here it is again, as I've said it before and as maybe you don't really understand for some reason that your experience or your politics won't allow you to. The flag is the most sacred object, and the standing and taking your ball cap off etc. during the national anthem is the most sacred ritual in our collective national identity. Period. All you need to know! Maybe it wasn't always that way. But that's the way it is now.

You can't just shit on that and say you've got a good reason. Accept it. Because we say so. We're taking your most sacred stuff, and, incidentally, the thing that's most representative of what binds us together as a nation, and we're going to turn our backs to it, right up in your face. Now you just accept it or get control of your police departments nationwide and then we'll see about once again participating in your sacred national ritual.

Okay? This is what the people who are so pissed about this are so pissed about. Not some other reason that works better or fits a political narrative better for you or those who adhere to your ideologies etc. so that you all can overlay your version of people's motivations on top of these events. Now you're TELLING people, often very simple people, WHY they are actually doing what they're doing, and you're attaching racism and a calculated response, subverting a movement, etc. to what I am TELLING you is their honest. to. God. down to their bones reaction to what they are seeing.

It's like a form of paranoia but we know it isn't uncalculated on your end. Some people are probably paranoid but mostly there is an effort to deny people their true feelings and deny them the truth about their feelings. Similar to what happened in the presidential election. You're looking at them and saying, you don't feel the way you do. You feel something else. And you don't feel it for the reasons you're claiming to be feel it. You feel it for the reasons I'm TELLING you that you're feeling it. And that would be only to subvert and distort the meaning of this perfectly permissible (according to you) protest. You are telling them, as another poster here put it, that they're patriotism around this issue is PHONY.

I don't dispute Kaepernick's motivations or their sincerity whatsoever. I never said that dude was phony or that one famous black person standing up against police killings of black citizens was phony. I understand that people are pissed and have had enough. Say it in a press conference. Collect the biggest sports stars of the day and have an actual multi-day summit conference in NYC or Chicago to draw attention to the issues between the black community and the police. Stage and organize a sit out by every pro black athlete in America. I can get behind every single one of those actions and not one of them calls for disrespecting the American flag and the national anthem in the face of the paying customer Americans whose bat shit crazy support for YOU provides the incredible money that pays your salaries. Make the American people feel what you feel by doing something that they will hear and can get on your side with.

As pilight said, if you do something (well, my translation of what pilight said) so outside what people can accept as a protest, the meaning of your protest is lost. At this point in our history, so far from Vietnam and instead with 9/11 and two extremely long but relatively non-controversial wars fresh in our memories, we have become a nation that does this flag and national anthem stuff NO QUESTIONS ASKED. Or else. We have asked TOO MANY people from the lower and lower middle class to go off and fight wars or rush into buildings and into flames and all of what every good cop does and must face and all the people who are appreciative of all of that to not understand and respect that these rituals are our collective nod of appreciation, and too often the only one, wherein our nation shows that we remember and collectively thank these people.

That's what it means now. It's like their moment. We're about to all lose ourselves in this football game, safely in our homes or in the stands, in this amazingly safe country that is such because of the sacrifices of so many, and we're going to take a minute here and give the people WHO HAVE BOTH RISKED AND LAID DOWN THEIR LIVES to make it all possible, our appreciation.

If you don't see that, you don't understand America. I'm sorry.

I have to say, back to the getting people on your side thing. People here know how critical I was over Ferguson and BLM. But when Lebron James stood up I felt (felt, meaning my reaction was involuntary) compelled to put aside my resistance based on the circumstances of Ferguson and the birth of BLM and give a fresh look at the larger picture. Politics is about winning people over with your sincerity.

The rest is nothing but a pathway to chaos and disorder and division and destruction.

Because stupid people.


1. The athletes are not disrespecting the flag. They are kneeling during the National Anthem.

2. The flag is disrespected quite often.

exhibit A.



3. Many of these same Americans complaining about Kaep and other "whiny athletes* #DontGetMeStarted voted for a man who insulted a War Hero and Gold Star Family.



4. People consistently reject anything black people do as a protest. In fact, people refuse to accept that police violence against African Americans is even an issue.

If you don't understand the very clear message that Kaep stated, and then the twisting that mainstream media did to it (and understand why), I really can't help you.

This isn't the first time something like this has happened, and it won't be the last. (Primary example. The Lesbian kiss-in used to be a protest. Now it's sexualized. You think that's an accident?)

mercfan3 wrote:
Donnie is still not the good guy though. Nice try.


jammerbirdi wrote:

Yeah. That's what I was going for. Trump as the good guy. Not the winking sarcastic hook with a grain of truth thing that is only the most common rhetorical click bait trick in the entire internet universe.


You literally said it in your post. Laughing (My comment was mostly said in jest though.)



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PostPosted: 09/28/17 10:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Many, and maybe most, simple folk Americans think that honoring our flag and national anthem at public events is a moment to reflect and remember the huge sacrifices made by millions of our ancestors to create our nation, such as the fact that almost 600,000 Union soldiers in the Civil War were killed, wounded, captured or missing -- all to end slavery. 90% of these soldiers were white men, fighting alongside black men. The flag under which all these men fought and died was the stars and stripes. The Civil War was the bloodiest war in American history, fought to achieve our national anthem's noble aspiration that all of our "land" would be "of the free".

Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr., added a fifth stanza to the Star Spangled Banner in 1861 because of the Civil War:

When our land is illumined with Liberty's smile,
If a foe from within strike a blow at her glory,
Down, down with the traitor that dares to defile
The flag of her stars and the page of her story!
By the millions unchained who our birthright have gained,
We will keep her bright blazon forever unstained!

And the Star-Spangled Banner in triumph shall wave
While the land of the free is the home of the brave.


Simple folk Americans feel this kind of thing in their gut.
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PostPosted: 09/28/17 10:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Many, and maybe most, simple folk Americans think that honoring our flag and national anthem at public events is a moment to reflect and remember the huge sacrifices made by millions of our ancestors to create our nation, such as the fact that almost 600,000 Union soldiers in the Civil War were killed, wounded, captured or missing -- all to end slavery. 90% of these soldiers were white men, fighting alongside black men. The flag under which all these men fought and died was the stars and stripes. The Civil War was the bloodiest war in American history, fought to achieve our national anthem's noble aspiration that all of our "land" would be "of the free".

Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr., added a fifth stanza to the Star Spangled Banner in 1861 because of the Civil War:

When our land is illumined with Liberty's smile,
If a foe from within strike a blow at her glory,
Down, down with the traitor that dares to defile
The flag of her stars and the page of her story!
By the millions unchained who our birthright have gained,
We will keep her bright blazon forever unstained!

And the Star-Spangled Banner in triumph shall wave
While the land of the free is the home of the brave.


Simple folk Americans feel this kind of thing in their gut.




This may be a classic example of white privilege, in prose.



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PostPosted: 09/29/17 12:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is the type of over the top hyper-patriotism that gets people all worked up and defining things to their own ends. People will get bent all out of shape about it beacuse someone told them that kneeling=I hate veterans and spit on dead soliders even though that is ridiculous. And in 50 years when more level heads prevail there will be a statue commemorating this. Why do I know this? Because it's happened before:



The uproar was deafening. How disrespectful it was. They got death threats. And now they are heroes of the fight for civil rights.



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PostPosted: 09/29/17 12:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Many, and maybe most, simple folk Americans think that honoring our flag and national anthem at public events is a moment to reflect and remember the huge sacrifices made by millions of our ancestors to create our nation, such as the fact that almost 600,000 Union soldiers in the Civil War were killed, wounded, captured or missing -- all to end slavery. 90% of these soldiers were white men, fighting alongside black men. The flag under which all these men fought and died was the stars and stripes. The Civil War was the bloodiest war in American history, fought to achieve our national anthem's noble aspiration that all of our "land" would be "of the free".

Oliver Wendell Holmes, Sr., added a fifth stanza to the Star Spangled Banner in 1861 because of the Civil War:

When our land is illumined with Liberty's smile,
If a foe from within strike a blow at her glory,
Down, down with the traitor that dares to defile
The flag of her stars and the page of her story!
By the millions unchained who our birthright have gained,
We will keep her bright blazon forever unstained!

And the Star-Spangled Banner in triumph shall wave
While the land of the free is the home of the brave.


Simple folk Americans feel this kind of thing in their gut.

Oh the sweet, sweet irony of this post.

How kneeling equates to states quitting the union (as that is what "the traitor that dares defile the flag of her stars" is referring to), I seriously don't know. But that next line, about the millions unchained, it would seem the promise of the birthright hasn't quite been kept as of yet. One of the children of the unchained kneeling to remind us of this simple fact seems fitting somehow, doesn't it?

Ultimately people didn't fight and die for a piece of fabric or a nice melody, they fought and died for the ideals which these things represent. I would be more offended that these ideals have not been met than I would the person demanding these sacrifices be honored by kneeling for those symbols until the covenant is kept.

And why do I think that if the reason for kneeling hit most of these "simple folk Americans" closer to home there would be a lot mpre support for the act? If the government tomorrow banned the practice and worship of Christianity and SCOTUS refused to act, and some devout Christian sports star stated that he would kneel until the government restored his people's rights, how many would still object? How many would say that they don't want politics mixed with their sports? Or would they feel this issue was important enough?

Cthskzfn is right. There is no small amout of white privilege invloved in saying "I don't want to have to think about racial injustice while I watch my sports". Especially since for the vast majority of the people actually playing that sport there is no "not thinking about it", as it is something inextricable from their lives.



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PostPosted: 09/29/17 1:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
There is no small amout of white privilege invloved in saying "I don't want to have to think about racial injustice while I watch my sports". Especially since for the vast majority of the people actually playing that sport there is no "not thinking about it", as it is something inextricable from their lives.


The "vast majority of the people actually playing the sport" of NFL football are multimillionaires. They all got full boat scholarships to college, and many of them were probably given easy grades in menu of gut courses. Those are substantial privileges not enjoyed in many other countries in the world.

I have no idea what the eternally offended and virtue signalling classes mean by "white privilege", but I do know the phrase is so last year as to be obsolete. The politically correct nom du leftwinge is now "white supremacy".

I can't wait until next year when the country is being destroyed by "white divinity" -- according, mainly, to a bunch of white people who have such distorted and pretentious self-images that they actually believe they are morally superior, for some unknown reason, to their contemporaries and ancestors.

Yeah, all those old and dead white men. None of them had the sensitivity to minority oppression and equal justice that I, almost uniquely on the planet, do. This deluded narcissism was better expressed by the free speech movement in the early '60's: "Don't trust anyone over 30."
jammerbirdi



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PostPosted: 09/29/17 2:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:


And why do I think that if the reason for kneeling hit most of these "simple folk Americans" closer to home there would be a lot mpre support for the act? If the government tomorrow banned the practice and worship of Christianity and SCOTUS refused to act, and some devout Christian sports star stated that he would kneel until the government restored his people's rights, how many would still object? How many would say that they don't want politics mixed with their sports? Or would they feel this issue was important enough?


God, Country, Football. In that order. Next question?

justintyme wrote:
Cthskzfn is right. There is no small amout of white privilege invloved in saying "I don't want to have to think about racial injustice while I watch my sports".


The money that is collected from the sports-consuming public turns the players into millionaires and the owners into richer billionaires. The stands, however, are not filled with millionaires or billionaires. The people are very aware of who they are and what they're paying for. They know what the product is, they love it as it is, and they are making their deal with the providers of this sports entertainment product under the conditions and circumstances they have come to expect. And that includes the players, although apparently many of them haven't been told that yet.

You guys can continue to beat them up for refusing to accept something new that's being thrown in there that they see as disrespectful to their sacred rituals that and is taken by them to be a direct insult to THEM and these things that they love SO much; their country, their flag, and their national anthem ritual.

Dudes. We made them this way! The elites did. Get out your Noam Chomsky and Michael Parenti and Howard Zinn. We socialize them to be patriotic enough to GIVE THEIR LIVES for this country. And they do. We condition them around the notion of patriotism and personal sacrifice to the point where they will actually accept the sacrifice of even their CHILDREN for this country! That's not easy. But we've done it!

The unity promoted by the league and the media outlets like Sports Illustrated has fizzling out in the first week of its life. People don't care about locking arms. Never did. Looks kind of nice, actually. But since Sunday, not an NFL player has 'taken the knee' during the national anthem. I predict that shit is probably over. No guarantees there, though, and I'll talk about that in a sec.

Before the sun came up this last Sunday the Pittsburgh Steelers couldn't make up their minds, as a team, what to do during the national anthem. Some wanted to kneel, some didn't. And so they, now so infamously, stayed in the tunnel. Because they couldn't make up their minds.

Then the people of Pittsburgh weighed in and Pittsburgh Steelers minds were made up.

Predictably, it seems the Steelers have found some AMAZING clarity on this issue. They figured it out! Steelers team captain Maurice Pouncey is in the paper today GUARANTEEING every single last Pittsburgh Steeler will be on the field and STANDING during this week's national anthem. Turns out it was all just a big misunderstanding.

This is what losing looks like.

Now, can we be absolutely 100% sure that everyone on that team or any other team will comply? No. I believe in stupid people and stupid people will do stupid things. But now? With the kind of push back that the fans gave this. Booing the New England Patriots in Foxburo? Too bad the rest of the league wasn't watching TV instead of warming up at 12:55 PM this past Sunday. A lot of problems could have been avoided, I think. Anyway. But in this context a player or group of players would be playing Russian roulette with their careers to take a knee during the anthem this week. Or ever again, for that matter.

I don't know why so many here can't grasps this oh so simple truth about America and the relationship the mostly (statistically speaking) non-intellectual sports loving public, tending to be the families that produce those who serve in the military and cops and fireman, etc. that those people think this here below, as I've said earlier in this thread. I don't get how or why you guys fight this reality or even care to.

We have asked TOO MANY people from the lower and lower middle classes to go off and fight wars or rush into buildings and into flames and do what every good cop does, to now not understand and respect that these rituals are the rest of our collective show of appreciation, too often the ONLY one, wherein our nation shows that we remember and collectively thank these people.

It's like their moment. We're about to all lose ourselves in this football game, safely in our homes or in the stands, in this amazingly safe country that is what it is because of the sacrifices of so many, and we're going to take a minute here and give the people who risk their lives and have LAID DOWN THEIR LIVES to make it all possible, our appreciation.


Like I said, if you don't understand that, you don't understand America.

Oh. And do I have to point out that Donald Trump wins? He said, TODAY, I'm paraphrasing. I looked at this thing that was happening and I said it was bad. It isn't right. The NFL and its players can't disrespect the flag by kneeling down during the national anthem. They need to stop doing that.

Okay that's my bad Trump impression. But he did what he did over the weekend and he said that today and low and behold, at the moment it looks like this #takeaknee thing could be left back on the locker room floor for a while.

Trump said they need to stop doing it, and here we go Steelers.

Colin Kaepernick. He's now pretty much a political martyr. Trump wins. Kneeling black athletes lose. Pick your fights and don't mimic shit that was done in the 1960s. Unless you're going to take Ali's lead and pull together a dream team of American black athletes, have a summit and bring your issues in front of the American people for redress.


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