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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/26/17 10:25 am    ::: Criminal indictments are exposing shoe money corruption Reply Reply with quote

in college basketball recruiting. (Just men's so far)

Ok, most people have believed these payouts occurred, but there's now going to be public proof for all to see.

Arizona, Auburn, Oklahoma State and USC, along with Adidas, named so far.

Press conference scheduled for noon today by the US Attorney in Manhattan.

https://sports.yahoo.com/fbi-probe-uncovers-massive-college-basketball-scandal-snaring-big-time-programs-144631716.html


bballjunkie



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PostPosted: 09/26/17 11:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Which is worse these payments or the on campus antics of services provided?


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/26/17 11:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not yet indicted, but evidently Louisville is up to its ass in this as well, and the FBI has videotape of a meeting in Las Vegas with someone who is obviously a Louisville coach discussing a $100,000 payment to Brian Bowen and that they had to be low key about it because they're already on probation.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/26/17 12:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Link to the US Attorney's press conference:

https://t.co/kKr2Eef5Cr?amp=1


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/26/17 1:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

USC had a noticeable uptick in recruiting after Tony Bland joined the staff a few years ago. Now we know why.

Interesting that in 2015, he was one of four coaches in the U.S. chosen to participate at the Sports For Community Summit held in Dakar, Senegal to discuss how to improve and impact communities positively through sport.

I wonder if he included "hand out bags of cash" among his recommendations.


pilight



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PostPosted: 09/26/17 1:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You know what they say, there's no business like shoe business



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 09/26/17 1:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
You know what they say, there's no business like shoe business


Very Happy



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PostPosted: 09/26/17 1:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
pilight wrote:
You know what they say, there's no business like shoe business


Very Happy


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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/26/17 3:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Long time Louisville sportswriter Pat Forde calls for Louisville to get the death penalty if the bribery allegations are true.

Quite a scathing column about hooker-gate and all the rest.

https://sports.yahoo.com/ncaa-needs-give-louisville-basketball-death-sentence-bombshell-allegations-prove-correct-181930063.html


BTW, in addition to the four schools whose assistant coaches were indicted, sportswriters have identified three other schools as plainly and unambiguously identified in the indictments without being named - Louisville, South Carolina and Miami. I haven't read the three indictments (over 120 pages in total) yet so I'm just recounting what major sportswriters are writing.

These assistants, btw are facing serious jail time. The US Att's chart summarizes the charges and potential sentence against the assistants as "Bribery conspiracy, Solicitation of bribes, Honest services fraud conspiracy, Honest services fraud, Wire fraud conspiracy; Travel Act conspiracy (80 years)."


Queenie



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PostPosted: 09/26/17 7:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So how many of us are holding our breath and wondering if any of their distaff counterparts were also involved? Given a couple of the schools implicated, this has the potential to get all kinds of ugly.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/26/17 7:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
So how many of us are holding our breath and wondering if any of their distaff counterparts were also involved? Given a couple of the schools implicated, this has the potential to get all kinds of ugly.


The only thing probably saving the women is that they don't earn large enough salaries or sell enough shoes to make bribery worthwhile from an economic standpoint.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 09/27/17 9:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's all about money, so the women should be relatively well protected from this particular scandal ...

But, mounting my hobby horse once again, what we're really talking about here is that players are worth thousands and thousands of dollars to big-time programs, and this is partially the marketplace at work.

If players were paid what they were worth (whatever that might be), they would not need to take money under the table, or ask for money. And if they had agents, all of this would be regulated and aboveboard.

It is the blatant hypocrisy of the sham that is the NCAA's "amateurism" in a billion-dollar industry that created this situation -- and I hope this is just the beginning of massive reform of a broken and corrupt system.



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 09/27/17 9:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm having a little trouble distinguishing the federal crimes from the NCAA violations. This clearly goes well beyond the NCAA violations - does anyone here know enough for a quick primer?


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/27/17 10:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
It's all about money, so the women should be relatively well protected from this particular scandal ...

But, mounting my hobby horse once again, what we're really talking about here is that players are worth thousands and thousands of dollars to big-time programs, and this is partially the marketplace at work.

If players were paid what they were worth (whatever that might be), they would not need to take money under the table, or ask for money. And if they had agents, all of this would be regulated and aboveboard.

It is the blatant hypocrisy of the sham that is the NCAA's "amateurism" in a billion-dollar industry that created this situation -- and I hope this is just the beginning of massive reform of a broken and corrupt system.


This has nothing to do with being worth money to schools. This has to do with being worth money to shoe companies and "financial advisors". So the money to be made by slapping a tiny tiny number of players names on a shoe in the future makes it worthwhile to funnel money to a very few families today to get that player to (1) play for a school where he'll wear my shoes next year (his one and only forced year in college) and (2) make a thoroughly unenforceable promise to sign a shoe deal with me the day his one college season ends.

And the prospect of a 20% share of a $15 million rookie contract ( again for an infintessimally small number of players) makes it worth paying off coaches who have that player's trust to steer that player to me for his financial advisor needs.

This indictment has zip to do with your crusade against amateur athletics. Every issue in these indictments would go away ( or shift down to high school players, where it probably exists already) if the NBA and NBAPA simply got rid of the ridiculous one year in college requirement. That's all this is about is a handful of obvious pro-ready players being blocked from turning pro and getting paid under the table while they waste a year of their pro career. That's not the NCAA'S rule or fault.

It also has nothing to do with the other 4000 division I MBB players who aren't obvious first round draft picks. Or Div II or III players. Or about any sport other than men's basketball or rarely FB. (Even star football players don't produce enough shoe revenue to make bribery worthwhile.)

Well, then you could start crusading for high school basketball players to get paid. But in truth, Kevin Durant was more of a "pro" when playing for Montrose Christian (not to mention nearly everyone who ever donned an Oak Hill jersey) than 99% of Div I MBB players will ever be. Wherever you draw the age restriction line, somebody unscrupulous will try to get a jump on it by paying under the table people who are banned from turning pro to try to get a piece of their future pot of of gold.


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PostPosted: 09/27/17 12:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WAPO is reporting Pitino has been fired:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/09/27/rick-pitino-reportedly-fired-by-louisville-in-wake-of-federal-corruption-case/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_pitino-12p%3Ahomepage%2Fstory



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summertime blues



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PostPosted: 09/27/17 1:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And it's cost Auburn a 5-star recruit:
https://deadspin.com/the-fbis-ncaa-sting-has-already-cost-auburn-a-five-star-1818846437

They always talk about Pearl's recruiting violations at UT as if they were enormous, but in the light of this kind of thing they were total bullshit charges. And they were, really.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/27/17 1:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

stever wrote:
WAPO is reporting Pitino has been fired:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/early-lead/wp/2017/09/27/rick-pitino-reportedly-fired-by-louisville-in-wake-of-federal-corruption-case/?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_pitino-12p%3Ahomepage%2Fstory


And athletic director Tom Jurich.

Actually both currently on "unpaid leave" but they're looking for replacements, so "fired" sounds about right.




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mzonefan



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PostPosted: 09/27/17 1:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
It's all about money, so the women should be relatively well protected from this particular scandal ...

But, mounting my hobby horse once again, what we're really talking about here is that players are worth thousands and thousands of dollars to big-time programs, and this is partially the marketplace at work.

If players were paid what they were worth (whatever that might be), they would not need to take money under the table, or ask for money. And if they had agents, all of this would be regulated and aboveboard.

It is the blatant hypocrisy of the sham that is the NCAA's "amateurism" in a billion-dollar industry that created this situation -- and I hope this is just the beginning of massive reform of a broken and corrupt system.


This has nothing to do with being worth money to schools. This has to do with being worth money to shoe companies and "financial advisors".


Really? Are you saying that the schools have nothing to gain financially from signing one of these shoe company targets? How about increased ticket sales, merchandising, heightened recruiting visibility for the next target, contract bonuses for wins, a bigger apparel contract and all of the other benefits that the coaches and their schools get from having one of these players on their roster?


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/27/17 1:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mzonefan wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
It's all about money, so the women should be relatively well protected from this particular scandal ...

But, mounting my hobby horse once again, what we're really talking about here is that players are worth thousands and thousands of dollars to big-time programs, and this is partially the marketplace at work.

If players were paid what they were worth (whatever that might be), they would not need to take money under the table, or ask for money. And if they had agents, all of this would be regulated and aboveboard.

It is the blatant hypocrisy of the sham that is the NCAA's "amateurism" in a billion-dollar industry that created this situation -- and I hope this is just the beginning of massive reform of a broken and corrupt system.


This has nothing to do with being worth money to schools. This has to do with being worth money to shoe companies and "financial advisors".


Really? Are you saying that the schools have nothing to gain financially from signing one of these shoe company targets? How about increased ticket sales, merchandising, heightened recruiting visibility for the next target, contract bonuses for wins, a bigger apparel contract and all of the other benefits that the coaches and their schools get from having one of these players on their roster?


The theory of the govt's case is that the schools were victims of the fraud, not beneficiaries.


summertime blues



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PostPosted: 09/27/17 1:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It will all trickle down eventually to the NCAA, and there may wind up being some death penalties, with Louisville being one of them.

That's what my crystal ball says, but don't take it seriously Laughing



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PostPosted: 09/27/17 1:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is only the beginning.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 09/27/17 3:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

purduefanatic wrote:
This is only the beginning.


One can only hope.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/27/17 4:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not necessarily. This fell into the govt's lap because a guy who got convicted of unrelated Securities Act violations offered information up to get a lighter sentence and then cooperated with investigators. That doesn't necessarily mean they'll be able to get evidence on other groups or especially on other shoe companies, and other coaches and advisors are likely going to be a lot more careful about dealing with strangers going forward.

The Adidas VP who was indicted probably knows of things at other Adidas client schools.


pilight



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PostPosted: 09/27/17 5:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

purduefanatic wrote:
This is only the beginning.


This could be the sort of thing that ends the "amateurism" sham



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lvf08



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PostPosted: 09/27/17 8:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

@Raoul_000

Asked about FBI probe into corruption in MBB, Notre Dame coach Muffet McGraw claims there's cheating going on in WBB https://www.ndinsider.com/basketball/womens/notebook-notre-dame-women-s-basketball-makes-volunteering-competitive/article_3ea1ee94-a3dd-11e7-a04f-cb46de761483.html

https://twitter.com/Raoul_000/status/913220996697612288


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/27/17 10:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There was a tweet today from a guy who claims to be a sports law lawyer and does an agent law blog

"Employees of Nike's EYBL grassroots division, along with documents, have been subpoenaed by FBI in furtherance of investigation"

Assuming that's true, that EYBL group does girls AAU basketball teams as well as men's, I believe. Is it the same individuals who run both for Nike? Could that expose the women's game to risk?


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PostPosted: 09/28/17 7:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm sure Nikes does the same thing as Adidas, and all the FBI needs to do is find one guy named in the subpoenaed materials and get him to flip on the others.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20838846/feds-investigating-ncaa-fraud-likely-apply-extreme-pressure-big-name-coaches-programs

As for Bruce Pearl, this is now his third recruiting scandal. I'm skeptical he didn't know about this.


PUmatty



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PostPosted: 09/28/17 9:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
I'm sure Nikes does the same thing as Adidas, and all the FBI needs to do is find one guy named in the subpoenaed materials and get him to flip on the others.

http://www.espn.com/mens-college-basketball/story/_/id/20838846/feds-investigating-ncaa-fraud-likely-apply-extreme-pressure-big-name-coaches-programs

As for Bruce Pearl, this is now his third recruiting scandal. I'm skeptical he didn't know about this.


Pearl's career should be as dead as Pitino's. We'll see.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/28/17 9:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Some of this is spooling quickly. According to ESPN:

Alabama associate athletic director Kobie Baker, who previously worked for the NCAA, resigned Wednesday after the school questioned him about being linked to the ongoing FBI college basketball investigation that has resulted in 10 arrests.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 09/28/17 9:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The girls' Nike EYBL is run by different people ...

Here's my understanding of some aspects of this:

On the boys' side, Nike will give club coaches $100,000 and they can do what they want with it. The top clubs also get gear, and are constantly updating uniforms and shoes during the summer season, so it's a pretty expensive package. But then again, apparel is a pretty big business.

On the girls' side, there are fewer sponsored clubs, and they don't get cash. They get apparel, and some other benefits, but it's a much different scenario.

But as McGraw says, it's not like women's basketball is squeaky clean. College coaching is a nice gig, and even a $150,000 salary (I would love to have come close to half that in my journalism career) is worth fudging the lines a bit.

I don't think anyone's handing out cash, but there are ways to generate income for players and families that don't show up on intercollegiate balance sheets.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/28/17 10:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well, if you needed any better indication we're not in NCAA land any more. . . .

"A University of Southern California basketball assistant coach charged in a massive corruption case has made his initial court appearance in Florida.

Tony Bland went into the courtroom wearing handcuffs and ankle chains Tuesday. He said little during the brief hearing other than to answer the judge's questions. He did not enter a plea and said he needs a lawyer.

Prosecutors recommended Bland be released on $100,000 bail with the understanding he must appear Oct. 10 in federal court in New York for another hearing. That was granted by the U.S. magistrate judge."


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PostPosted: 09/28/17 10:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
I'm sure Nikes does the same thing as Adidas, and all the FBI needs to do is find one guy named in the subpoenaed materials and get him to flip on the others.


Not all of the arrested coaches are from Adidas schools. Some are from Nike and Under Armour schools.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/28/17 11:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Two big time mens recruits have decommitted from Louisville, one from Auburn.

I expect a lot more recruiting fallout.




Last edited by ArtBest23 on 09/28/17 12:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
purduefanatic



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PostPosted: 09/28/17 12:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
I'm sure Nikes does the same thing as Adidas, and all the FBI needs to do is find one guy named in the subpoenaed materials and get him to flip on the others.


Not all of the arrested coaches are from Adidas schools. Some are from Nike and Under Armour schools.


No, but I believe the coaches at the other schools have been arrested because of the bribes they received to send their top players to certain agents/financial advisers. Nothing that has come out or that I have seen pertains to paying recruits & their families to go their schools, which is what appears to have happened at Louisville and again at Miami. We have a couple of different scenarios going on.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/28/17 1:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You know the old line about having to "make your own luck"? This is what Pitino had to say when Bruce Bowen committed this summer. Bowen is evidently the player alleged to have been paid $100,000 by Adidas to sign with Louisville. I got a laugh out of this.

"We got lucky on this one," Pitino told Terry Meiners of News Radio 840. "I had an AAU director call me and ask me if I'd be interested in a player (Bowen). I saw him against another great player from Indiana. I said 'Yeah, I'd be really interested.' They had to come in unofficially, pay for their hotel, pay for their meals. We spent zero dollars recruiting a five-star athlete who I loved when I saw him play. In my 40 years of coaching this is the luckiest I've been."


Oh, and two days ago Auburn announced they had sold out their basketball season tickets. Then came the indictment. Now Auburn is offering refunds to any ST buyers who want them. Ooops.


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PostPosted: 09/28/17 4:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

purduefanatic wrote:
pilight wrote:
FrozenLVFan wrote:
I'm sure Nikes does the same thing as Adidas, and all the FBI needs to do is find one guy named in the subpoenaed materials and get him to flip on the others.


Not all of the arrested coaches are from Adidas schools. Some are from Nike and Under Armour schools.


No, but I believe the coaches at the other schools have been arrested because of the bribes they received to send their top players to certain agents/financial advisers. Nothing that has come out or that I have seen pertains to paying recruits & their families to go their schools, which is what appears to have happened at Louisville and again at Miami. We have a couple of different scenarios going on.


Lamont Evans, the former South Carolina asst. coach and current Oklahoma State asst. coach, did press Marty Blazer (referred to in the FBI complaint documents as "CW-1") and Munish Sood into paying him additional money that he could use to pay recruits and their families to help bring them to Oklahoma State. Evans emphasized that this money would be separate and additional to the fees (bribes) he was paid by them to steer OSU MBB student-athletes to CW-1 and Sood's financial advisory companies. Evans sold it as seeding the garden for bringing in elite prep talent into OSU, which Evans would then steer to CW-1 and Sood, so the additional money would be beneficial to those dudes in the end.

The documents have little to nothing on South Carolina, but these things have a way of exposing more cockroaches as the manhole cover gets lifted higher. Per the documents, nothing more than phone conversations and planning - and one single meeting in Columbia SC between CW-1, Sood, Dawkins, and Evans ever took place while Evans was an asst. coach for USC. No money passed hands, and no players or player families were brought in.

By the time the first cash payment of $500 was paid to Evans, he was already an asst. coach at OSU for 2 weeks. Sood was described as being brought together with the mother of Player-3 (believed to be PJ Dozier) by Evans in July 2017, but CW-1 wasn't there, so there is no recording of what took place then. Was money given to Player-3's mom? Did Player 3 show up? It is all moot anyways, because if it was Dozier, he declared himself going pro and signing an agent in April 2017, so by then he and his mom could accept money and see anyone they liked, because Dozier's amateur status had expired.

But to be factual, there was never any confirmed statement in the FBI complaint documents that CW-1, Sood, or Dawkins EVER met ANY South Carolina players. Only Evans.

When the entirety of the some $22,000 claimed to be paid to Evans was paid, he was an employee of the Oklahoma State MBB program, and the student-athletes he discussed with the others were all OSU student-athletes.

Again, there is going to be a lot more that comes out of this, but right now USC is on the outside looking in....


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PostPosted: 09/28/17 4:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And now its official: Lamont Evans is now a former Oklahoma State assistant coach.......


Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 09/28/17 4:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

lvf08 wrote:
@Raoul_000

Asked about FBI probe into corruption in MBB, Notre Dame coach Muffet McGraw claims there's cheating going on in WBB https://www.ndinsider.com/basketball/womens/notebook-notre-dame-women-s-basketball-makes-volunteering-competitive/article_3ea1ee94-a3dd-11e7-a04f-cb46de761483.html

https://twitter.com/Raoul_000/status/913220996697612288


Could be a dig at McGuff, Walz etc.


PUmatty



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PostPosted: 09/28/17 4:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
lvf08 wrote:
@Raoul_000

Asked about FBI probe into corruption in MBB, Notre Dame coach Muffet McGraw claims there's cheating going on in WBB https://www.ndinsider.com/basketball/womens/notebook-notre-dame-women-s-basketball-makes-volunteering-competitive/article_3ea1ee94-a3dd-11e7-a04f-cb46de761483.html

https://twitter.com/Raoul_000/status/913220996697612288


Could be a dig at McGuff, Walz etc.


Based on ...


Conway Gamecock



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PostPosted: 09/28/17 4:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Nixtreefan wrote:
lvf08 wrote:
@Raoul_000

Asked about FBI probe into corruption in MBB, Notre Dame coach Muffet McGraw claims there's cheating going on in WBB https://www.ndinsider.com/basketball/womens/notebook-notre-dame-women-s-basketball-makes-volunteering-competitive/article_3ea1ee94-a3dd-11e7-a04f-cb46de761483.html

https://twitter.com/Raoul_000/status/913220996697612288


Could be a dig at McGuff, Walz etc.


Based on ...


I'm guessing based on a tweet from McGraw.....


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 09/28/17 5:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Conway Gamecock wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Nixtreefan wrote:
lvf08 wrote:
@Raoul_000

Asked about FBI probe into corruption in MBB, Notre Dame coach Muffet McGraw claims there's cheating going on in WBB https://www.ndinsider.com/basketball/womens/notebook-notre-dame-women-s-basketball-makes-volunteering-competitive/article_3ea1ee94-a3dd-11e7-a04f-cb46de761483.html

https://twitter.com/Raoul_000/status/913220996697612288


Could be a dig at McGuff, Walz etc.


Based on ...


I'm guessing based on a tweet from McGraw.....


What tweet from McGraw? Just because you obviously don't like McGuff or Walz is no reason at all to transfer your attitude to McGraw.

McGraw happens to be close to her former assistant McGuff, so I'd be very surprised if she was intending to point a finger at him.

If you're just going to throw names around without reason, maybe it was a dig at Staley.

Or more likely, maybe she wasn't talking about anyone in particular.


Conway Gamecock



Joined: 23 Jan 2015
Posts: 666
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PostPosted: 09/28/17 7:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Conway Gamecock wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Nixtreefan wrote:
lvf08 wrote:
@Raoul_000

Asked about FBI probe into corruption in MBB, Notre Dame coach Muffet McGraw claims there's cheating going on in WBB https://www.ndinsider.com/basketball/womens/notebook-notre-dame-women-s-basketball-makes-volunteering-competitive/article_3ea1ee94-a3dd-11e7-a04f-cb46de761483.html

https://twitter.com/Raoul_000/status/913220996697612288


Could be a dig at McGuff, Walz etc.


Based on ...


I'm guessing based on a tweet from McGraw.....


What tweet from McGraw? Just because you obviously don't like McGuff or Walz is no reason at all to transfer your attitude to McGraw.

McGraw happens to be close to her former assistant McGuff, so I'd be very surprised if she was intending to point a finger at him.

If you're just going to throw names around without reason, maybe it was a dig at Staley.

Or more likely, maybe she wasn't talking about anyone in particular.



Dude, you're just flailing, flailing, flailing....


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 11870



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PostPosted: 09/28/17 8:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Say what? You just make up shit and post

Conway Gamecock wrote:


I'm guessing based on a tweet from McGraw.....


And you say I'm flailing?

Well that's classic. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


Nixtreefan



Joined: 14 Nov 2012
Posts: 1257



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PostPosted: 09/28/17 9:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Nixtreefan wrote:
lvf08 wrote:
@Raoul_000

Asked about FBI probe into corruption in MBB, Notre Dame coach Muffet McGraw claims there's cheating going on in WBB https://www.ndinsider.com/basketball/womens/notebook-notre-dame-women-s-basketball-makes-volunteering-competitive/article_3ea1ee94-a3dd-11e7-a04f-cb46de761483.html

https://twitter.com/Raoul_000/status/913220996697612288


Could be a dig at McGuff, Walz etc.


Based on ...


Hiring family members and using billboards etc for starters.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 11870



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PostPosted: 09/29/17 12:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:


Hiring family members and using billboards etc for starters.


And either of those are "cheating" how, exactly????


Conway Gamecock



Joined: 23 Jan 2015
Posts: 666
Location: Here


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PostPosted: 09/29/17 2:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Say what? You just make up shit and post

Conway Gamecock wrote:


I'm guessing based on a tweet from McGraw.....


And you say I'm flailing?

Well that's classic. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


You're flailing when you don't even know who to argue with, or what about. You say I "obviously don't like McGuff or Waltz", when I have never posted anything negatively OR positively about either coach. Did you think I posted what Nixtreefan posted? That was the one that posted about digs at McGuff & Waltz, not me. I haven't thrown ANY names around....

I was trying to make a facetious comment to PUmatty, but I got it wrong: I should have said "based on Raoul's tweet of McGraw's comments", but it wouldn't have made my joke any better. But either way, I have no dog in this fight.

You need to stop shaking your fists at the heavens and skies above, and start figuring out who you have a beef with......


Nixtreefan



Joined: 14 Nov 2012
Posts: 1257



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PostPosted: 09/29/17 9:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Nixtreefan wrote:


Hiring family members and using billboards etc for starters.


And either of those are "cheating" how, exactly????


Maybe she knows more than you about it Laughing Laughing


dtsnms



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 18611



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PostPosted: 09/29/17 9:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Honestly, enough crap will come out that I don't think this board needs to throw out names without stating any proof or support. Just my two cents.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 11870



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PostPosted: 09/29/17 10:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

dtsnms wrote:
Honestly, enough crap will come out that I don't think this board needs to throw out names without stating any proof or support. Just my two cents.


×___________________________

Or claim some coach has accused another specific coach when she has done no such thing.

That unfairly slurs both the supposed accuser and the supposed accused.


Nixtreefan



Joined: 14 Nov 2012
Posts: 1257



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PostPosted: 09/29/17 11:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jesus, lighten up. When a coach or anyone makes a claim and then doesn't give details you gets what you gets. Believe me, I think it will be a lot worse than what I have added to this conversation, which BTWs was already talked about in length on this board Rolling Eyes


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