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pilight



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 9:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Achonwa is better than both of those players. Why would Fever trade her for two post players who aren't any good?


Depth



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chapulana



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 10:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

No way Achonwa is traded, or should be, imo.

The only way the team should add bigs is either getting rid of the vets (not sure if doable) or just plain waiting for what the draft brings. I wouldn't touch almost any of the young pieces at the state the team is at.


Shades



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 10:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Well Shades, the Lynx have 3 players who can play PG - Whalen, Robinson and if needed Wright.


Your answer is well the mighty mighty Lynx have three PG’s (Whalen, DRob, Jones) so I wanna have three PG’s too. I’m not thrilled about it for the Lynx either but at least it’s more understandable. Whalen is running on fumes and probably won’t be back next year. This is not the scenario for ATL. So I say again, if you’re not expecting Clarendon back next year, then keeping 3 PG’s makes sense. Otherwise it’s overkill.

Randy wrote:
Ideally Dream might have a backup for Angel, but Hayes and even Sykes have rotated to the 3 as needed.


Yes, but your only solution when McCoughtry is on the bench is a small-ball three guard system. Why paint yourself into a corner like that? If you can find a taller decent G/F that you might actually use, that would be as you say the most ideal thing. Why not go for ideal?

Randy wrote:
So to get this back to Indy - I've been thinking maybe IMS+Dantas for Achonwa. IMS played her best ball for Pokey and they stand to pick up a good post in the next draft making Achonwa somewhat unnecessary.


If you and Collen don’t appreciate Dantas (killed me on FD using her only 5 min), I wouldn’t mind seeing her back in Minny. I’m trying to gather up under appreciated players. Zahui + Dantas >>>>> Fagbenle + Miyem.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 10:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

chapulana wrote:
No way Achonwa is traded, or should be, imo.


Achonwa is having a career year. Time to sell high!



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 10:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Here’s my depth chart for ATL
Montgomery/Clarendon/Dietrick
Hayes/Sykes/Lucas
McCoughtry/
Breland/Dantas/Billings
Williams/McGee-Stafford



one superstar, one very good player, a couple of decent role players, and a whole lot of not much. [shaking head] How is it you've actually won 6 games?



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 10:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
chapulana wrote:
No way Achonwa is traded, or should be, imo.


Achonwa is having a career year. Time to sell high!


she's actually healthy. If you think she'll have recurrent injury problems, maybe you 'sell'. Otherwise you think she's taken a few years, like many posts do, to get established, and now she's in her prime.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 10:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Are Achonwa and Zahui the only halfway relevant players on the last year of their rookie contracts that didn’t get contract extensions? Even KML got an extension.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 10:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shade Lynx might have 2 PG's running on fumes and one with a bent wheel. Not sure I get why you care if the Dream dump Dietrick for Chong though. Besides your depth chart has Dietrick as the 3rd pg. Why not get a better one? Hell last year we had only one.

As for Dantas - I don't exactly get the substitution pattern either, but it works until it doesn't. I've always been a fan of Dantas, but I figure if we aren't going to use her, maybe go for someone we will use. Beside, after protest from the Indy fan, I withdrew the proposal anyway.



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Last edited by Randy on 06/15/18 10:42 am; edited 1 time in total
Randy



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 10:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Shades wrote:
Here’s my depth chart for ATL
Montgomery/Clarendon/Dietrick
Hayes/Sykes/Lucas
McCoughtry/
Breland/Dantas/Billings
Williams/McGee-Stafford



one superstar, one very good player, a couple of decent role players, and a whole lot of not much. [shaking head] How is it you've actually won 6 games?


Dang myrtle - you are the cloud in our rainbow, but I think it's pretty obvious. The acting lessons and buying off some refs to go for all the Dream flops while ignoring our extra steps and fouls has worked pretty well.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 10:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Shades wrote:
Here’s my depth chart for ATL
Montgomery/Clarendon/Dietrick
Hayes/Sykes/Lucas
McCoughtry/
Breland/Dantas/Billings
Williams/McGee-Stafford



one superstar, one very good player, a couple of decent role players, and a whole lot of not much. [shaking head] How is it you've actually won 6 games?


The Dream have been playing very good defense



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 11:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The problem is that you're good enough to not be in the lottery year after year. You'll probably get a decent player next year at #5 - #7 but it won't be another superstar. I remember all those years Catchings kept Indiana at that level as well. Pretty frustrating. Now if you could convince Maya to come home to Atlanta...even if both your supers played the same position I think you could manage to fit her in Wink - that would be a start. And maybe Nikki will eventually figure out her rotations - that would help too.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 11:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maya would cost you at least the standard relevant player plus first round pick plus less relevant player or second round pick. Wouldn’t be a bad year to have two first round picks if you pick right.

So for an example:
Sykes + Dantas + the first in 2019 = Maya (the GOAT apparent)



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pilight



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 11:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
So for an example:
Sykes + Dantas the first in 2019 = Maya (the GOAT apparent)


My guess is that anyone and everyone in Atlanta would do that deal in a second.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 11:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Shades wrote:
So for an example:
Sykes + Dantas + the first in 2019 = Maya (the GOAT apparent)


My guess is that anyone and everyone in Atlanta would do that deal in a second.


What happens if I ratchet it up to Hayes instead of Sykes?

It’s not an unfair deal from the Minnesota side, so only if Maya wanted to be traded to ATL, I’d be happy with that trade.

Now who plays what position for ATL? Playing small ball or are you gonna have McCoughtry play behind Maya like in Team USA?


Wait, how about Breland + Sykes + first in 2019? Getting too expensive yet?

I have a feeling Reeve wouldn’t want McCoughtry so not even trying to factor her into a trade.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 11:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
pilight wrote:
Shades wrote:
So for an example:
Sykes + Dantas + the first in 2019 = Maya (the GOAT apparent)


My guess is that anyone and everyone in Atlanta would do that deal in a second.


What happens if I ratchet it up to Hayes instead of Sykes?


You'd probably still get more takers than not

Quote:
Now who plays what position for ATL? Playing small ball or are you gonna have McCoughtry play behind Maya like in Team USA?


We'd go with small ball, a lot of Angel at the 4. That means...


Quote:
Wait, how about Breland + Sykes + first in 2019? Getting too expensive yet?


...would be fine also. Hardly anyone thinks Breland will be here long term.



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PRballer



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 1:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Fever are awfully pitiful, aren't they?

Was Pokey purposely trying to clean house of vets (i.e. tank) to start anew and guarantee herself one of the 2019 6'7 rookies?

Have to imagine, even in a more limited role, that Larkins, Pohlen and Coleman would have helped close some of these close games that they've lost. Would think those three over McCall, Gwathmey and Ben Abdelkader would have worked out.


PUmatty



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 3:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PRballer wrote:
The Fever are awfully pitiful, aren't they?

Was Pokey purposely trying to clean house of vets (i.e. tank) to start anew and guarantee herself one of the 2019 6'7 rookies?

Have to imagine, even in a more limited role, that Larkins, Pohlen and Coleman would have helped close some of these close games that they've lost. Would think those three over McCall, Gwathmey and Ben Abdelkader would have worked out.


The ping pong balls are one positive, but not the only one.

If you are totally starting over, wouldn't you rather see if any of your young players have anything worth developing or keeping, than having vets who maybe help you win a couple more games? It's not like this team was going anywhere with the likes of Larkins or Pohlen. But if say, Erica McCall surprises you, that's a net positive.

If you don't anything from those young players, you haven't lost anything. The washed up vets aren't part of your future, but one of the young players might show she deserves to be.


Shades



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 4:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You should already know what you have in the rookies if you made the decision to jettison your savvy vets in favor of these rookies. Seems like mismanagement more than a great game plan to me. People in this forum seem to live for the draft and lottery picks, but is this how the majority of the fans feel? Are people who buy season tickets happy to see them lose every game? I don’t think so.

Are Chicago fans happy with where their team is at despite all the years of futility and lottery picks?

Especially with this next deep first round draft, I’d much rather be in the playoffs and still getting a decent player in the first round, and still keep the fans happy with at least some wins.



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 4:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

No point keeping around people who'll be tailing off by the time you expect to be good. Jettisoning them has the multi-faceted effect of opening up roster spots to try more younger alternatives, opening more minutes for the kids to play/develop/show you if they're any good, and ideally making you suck more to improve draft position.

A cynical person might suggest they kept Dupree as their main vet largely because she continues to aid that final priority...



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PUmatty



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 4:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
No point keeping around people who'll be tailing off by the time you expect to be good. Jettisoning them has the multi-faceted effect of opening up roster spots to try more younger alternatives, opening more minutes for the kids to play/develop/show you if they're any good, and ideally making you suck more to improve draft position.

A cynical person might suggest they kept Dupree as their main vet largely because she continues to aid that final priority...


Dupree certainly adds more to a team than Marissa Coleman or Jeanette Freaking Pohlen.

It is worth nothing of these vets people are so worked up about the Fever shedding, only Coleman was picked up by another team. She is averaging 8 points a game, but is hardly anyone's idea of a difference maker.


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PostPosted: 06/15/18 5:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Pohlen's a three point specialist basically and now with Mitchell & Mitchell, they have enough three point shooters. Larkins, reportedly, showed up injured to camp. Before we ride the Dupree train, let's wait and see if she's on the Fever next season.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 5:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

McCall and Mavunga have been surprisingly good. They're young, hungry, and really go after the ball. And they've developed far more than they would just sitting on the bench. That's the positive I can see in this situation. How that will pan out when/if they eventually get real starters in front of them is yet to be seen.



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PostPosted: 06/15/18 7:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
No point keeping around people who'll be tailing off by the time you expect to be good. Jettisoning them has the multi-faceted effect of opening up roster spots to try more younger alternatives, opening more minutes for the kids to play/develop/show you if they're any good, and ideally making you suck more to improve draft position.


This has been my argument. Let KMitchell and V. Vivians play, early and often. They were drafted to be part of the future core. Build next year with a top post. Add pieces the following year to fill out spots of need.

It will be a few years before Indiana will be any good (Catchings did so many things well and made up for a lot of mistakes). Might as well let the rookies play and get the experience.


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PostPosted: 06/15/18 8:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Why play players rookies or not if they don't play both ends .


Shades



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PostPosted: 06/17/18 12:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Indiana signs Asia Taylor and cuts Gwathmey.
http://fever.wnba.com/news/indiana-fever-sign-asia-taylor-waive-jazmon-gwathmey/

They don’t play the same position so I wonder if Shenise is about ready to play.

I think Gwathmey fits what ATL could use better than Dietrick... tall defensive guard.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 06/17/18 1:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You want to foist Gwathmey off onto yet another team? She's only 'defensive minded' in that she has no offense. Watch some tape on her and you'll see players dribble right around her.



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PostPosted: 06/17/18 1:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Glad to see Taylor picked up. There was just a log jam in DC at SF/PF this season.



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PostPosted: 06/17/18 1:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe I was overly impressed when I saw Gwathmey stuff Nneka Ogwumike. Statistically, the best thing I could find about her is she was tied for third in team ATO at 1.30. Fifth on the team in DREB%.



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PostPosted: 06/17/18 4:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As far as Gwathmey to the Dream goes, the question is not whether she is any good - it's is "she less terrible than Dietrick?"



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PostPosted: 06/30/18 7:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ben Abdelkader was waived.



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PostPosted: 07/01/18 12:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Ben Abdelkader was waived.


Undoubtedly a good move, but is she the reason they're so awful? You could waive almost the entire roster if indifferent play is the trigger ...



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PostPosted: 07/01/18 12:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The 'trigger' is the contract guarantee point on Tuesday, which requires players to be cut by Sunday so they clear waivers in time. Makes sense to open up that 12th spot to try some things out, or even just to open up flexibility and re-sign Ben Abdelkader on 7-days.



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PostPosted: 07/01/18 2:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Fever sign Cappie Pondexter



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PostPosted: 07/01/18 2:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Fever sign Cappie Pondexter


Huh. OK, then, on both sides.


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PostPosted: 07/01/18 2:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Fever the team of trigger happy guards



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Randy



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PostPosted: 07/01/18 2:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I predict the Fever announcers will say today that Pokey wanted to bring Cappie in to mentor the young Fever players - or something about like that.



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PostPosted: 07/01/18 2:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Cappie goes from playing on a potential championship team to the worst team in the league. Doesn't make sense, IMOO, just for more playing time



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PostPosted: 07/01/18 3:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mavcarter wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
mavcarter wrote:
I'll start the rumor mill, Cappie will not be in a Sky jersey in 2018. Very Happy

Doesn't/wouldn't surprise me at all. Quigley finally took her job last season, and I don't see either side of the equation being excited at the prospect of Cappie being her overpaid backup. Especially considering at least one of their lottery-pick rookies is likely to be needing those same perimeter wing minutes.


True. I heard LA or Indiana, don't know how much merit it has though.


Well, didn’t think it would go like this. Laughing


PUmatty



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PostPosted: 07/01/18 3:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I guess she has that relationship with Pokey, but this is a baffling decision all around.


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PostPosted: 07/01/18 3:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
I predict the Fever announcers will say today that Pokey wanted to bring Cappie in to mentor the young Fever players - or something about like that.


She could teach Mitchell how to be more selfish. Wink



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PostPosted: 07/01/18 4:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Good one! She could teach Wheeler how to dribble the clock down and take her shot, while ignoring the other players on her team.



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PostPosted: 07/01/18 4:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Cappie goes from playing on a potential championship team to the worst team in the league. Doesn't make sense, IMOO, just for more playing time


not sure she'll get more playing time.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 07/02/18 11:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Cappie Pondexter: 'I have a lot left in my tank'

https://www.indystar.com/story/sports/2018/07/02/wnba-indiana-fevers-cappie-pondexter-have-lot-left-my-tank/750311002/

Quote:
“I was just mentally out of it, it hit me kind of fast,” said Pondexter, who averaged 27.2 minutes, 9.6 points and 4.3 assists last season. “I wasn’t even sure if I was coming back, honestly. But here comes Pokey. I wouldn’t say that I owed it to her but I think I owed it to a generation of young ladies who look up to me to finish my career in the right manner.”



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Accept certain inalienable truths:
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PostPosted: 07/02/18 11:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Pokey seems confused. Might be a sign that she sees her time coming to an end (desperate move like Cooper’s last season), especially if Indy has another coaching candidate in mind. It started out that she wanted to have a clean slate for the team by dumping vets Larkins, Coleman, and Pohlen without getting anything in return. After going 1-15, which I’m fairly sure was unplanned, she now decides she wants veteran leadership.... and in the form of Cappie, who if anything has shown bad attitude more than anything and has never come off as intelligent to me. Cappie “wanting to help” by demanding more playing time.... is this going to help Mitchell’s development? Pokey threw Mitchell into the deep end just like Sloot, and it seems to be working fairly well, so why risk messing it up with another potential poison pill?

I wonder if all this might just point to giving Shenise Johnson the whole season off.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 07/02/18 12:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Could be the owners are ok with rebuilding - but only to a point. Maybe 1-15 is just not what they had in mind so Pokey makes a desperation move to pull out a few more wins.



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PostPosted: 07/02/18 12:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

she seemed to be really active on the court, but the activity (mostly hoisting shots she didn't make every time she touched the ball) wasn't very positive for the team.



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PostPosted: 07/02/18 12:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Fever probably have the most ping pong balls locked up. So it probably comes down to Wheeler losing her minutes. Not much to lose there.



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PostPosted: 07/02/18 12:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Fever probably have the most ping pong balls locked up. So it probably comes down to Wheeler losing her minutes. Not much to lose there.


It’s tickets or entries, not ping pong balls.

Wheeler was one of the few bright spots last season. Now she not only has to take a back seat to a rookie, she has to lose minutes to Cappie? Why risk making another player unhappy? Gee, I wonder why Indy is losing so much.



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PostPosted: 07/02/18 12:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

C'mon - this is poison pill we are talking about. You gonna worry about her?

Smile



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PostPosted: 07/10/18 9:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Pondexter still has plenty to give Indiana and the W

http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/24039016/at-35-veteran-wnba-guard-cappie-pondexter-plenty-give-indiana-fever

Quote:
Vivians, who helped guide Mississippi State to consecutive Final Fours in 2017 and '18, struggled on both ends of the court in the first half until Pondexter pulled the rookie aside during a timeout. A refocused Vivians scored 21 of her 27 points in the second half, her total being the most by a Fever rookie since Tamika Catchings in 2002.

"Cappie met her before she got to the bench and spoke to her," Chatman said. "She had a nice, calm manner, pointed out some things, and bam, [Vivians] went on a little run. It's different when it's coming from one of your teammates, someone you have respect for."



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