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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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 Posted: 09/14/17 1:58 am ::: The Chuck and Nancy Show |
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Could be a hot new fall series.
Pelosi and Schumer Say They Have Deal With Trump to Replace DACA
By MAGGIE HABERMAN and YAMICHE ALCINDOR
SEPT. 13, 2017
WASHINGTON — Democratic leaders on Wednesday night declared that they had a deal with President Trump to quickly extend protections for young undocumented immigrants and to finalize a border security package that does not include the president’s proposed wall.
The Democrats, Senator Chuck Schumer and Representative Nancy Pelosi, said in a joint statement that they had a “very productive” dinner meeting with the president at the White House that focused on the program known as Deferred Action for Childhood Arrivals, or DACA. “We agreed to enshrine the protections of DACA into law quickly, and to work out a package of border security, excluding the wall, that’s acceptable to both sides,” they said.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 09/14/17 9:54 am ::: |
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| cthskzfn wrote: |
| I think Huckleberry Sanders renounced the "excluding the wall" part 17 mins. later. |
In Trump's typical left-hand-doesn't-know-what-the-right-one-is-doing style, he cut the legs out from under Sanders not long afterwards.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2017/sep/14/donald-trump-vows-work-democrats-legalize-dreamers/
| Quote: |
| President Trump said Thursday that he is working with Democratic leaders on a plan to legalize illegal immigrant Dreamers, and said he won’t insist on funding his border wall as part of it, saying that “will come later.” |
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mercfan3
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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tfan
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| Posted: 09/14/17 5:20 pm ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
And for good reason. Trump, for the first time in his presidency, was praised for doing something. . |
First time praised by Democrats. What's the news there - do what Democrats want and they praise you. But he did get universal praise when he bombed Syria. The talking heads were going on about how "presidential" he was.
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 09/14/17 5:31 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| mercfan3 wrote: |
And for good reason. Trump, for the first time in his presidency, was praised for doing something. . |
First time praised by Democrats. What's the news there - do what Democrats want and they praise you. But he did get universal praise when he bombed Syria. The talking heads were going on about how "presidential" he was. |
First time praised by the national media.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 09/14/17 5:33 pm ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| mercfan3 wrote: |
And for good reason. Trump, for the first time in his presidency, was praised for doing something. . |
First time praised by Democrats. What's the news there - do what Democrats want and they praise you. But he did get universal praise when he bombed Syria. The talking heads were going on about how "presidential" he was. |
First time praised by the national media. |
Yes, the "undocumented" folks are definitely going to praise another amnesty - that isn't tied to a wall so a fresh group can come in to replace them. No news there either.
Last edited by tfan on 09/14/17 5:34 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 09/14/17 5:34 pm ::: |
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| Seriously tfan, what do you propose to do with somebody who was brought to the US when they were 2 years old, doesn't speak Spanish, has no family, friends, or community in, and no local knowledge of, their parents' homeland, only knows the US, went to school and college here, and now works for Intel or a tech startup making good money and paying taxes as a contributing part of their community? You going to fly them over the Nicaraguan jungle and push them out the door of the plane with a "good luck, you're on your own"?
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 09/14/17 5:49 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Seriously tfan, what do you propose to do with somebody who was brought to the US when they were 2 years old, doesn't speak Spanish, has no family, friends, or community in, and no local knowledge of, their parents' homeland, only knows the US, went to school and college here, and now works for Intel or a tech startup making good money and paying taxes as a contributing part of their community? You going to fly them over the Nicaraguan jungle and push them out the door of the plane with a "good luck, you're on your own"? |
They do speak Spanish, otherwise, they wouldn't have been able to communicate with their parents and their parents couldn't teach them anything but Spanish (most of them learned Spanish while still in Mexico as the median age would be 9 when they entered illegally). They probably do have family in their parent's homeland. And children and adults move from one country to another all the time. It also teaches a valuable lesson about following the law, which their parents didn't do (nor the people who hired their parents who could be fined now to pay their way back and get established). They also would return via normal transportation, not parachutes.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 09/14/17 6:33 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Seriously tfan, what do you propose to do with somebody who was brought to the US when they were 2 years old, doesn't speak Spanish, has no family, friends, or community in, and no local knowledge of, their parents' homeland, only knows the US, went to school and college here, and now works for Intel or a tech startup making good money and paying taxes as a contributing part of their community? You going to fly them over the Nicaraguan jungle and push them out the door of the plane with a "good luck, you're on your own"? |
They do speak Spanish, otherwise, they wouldn't have been able to communicate with their parents and their parents couldn't teach them anything but Spanish (most of them learned Spanish while still in Mexico as the median age would be 9 when they entered illegally). They probably do have family in their parent's homeland. And children and adults move from one country to another all the time. It also teaches a valuable lesson about following the law, which their parents didn't do (nor the people who hired their parents who could be fined now to pay their way back and get established). They also would return via normal transportation, not parachutes. |
Relying on completely false assumptions inevitably leads you to completely assinine conclusions.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9606
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| Posted: 09/14/17 6:59 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Seriously tfan, what do you propose to do with somebody who was brought to the US when they were 2 years old, doesn't speak Spanish, has no family, friends, or community in, and no local knowledge of, their parents' homeland, only knows the US, went to school and college here, and now works for Intel or a tech startup making good money and paying taxes as a contributing part of their community? You going to fly them over the Nicaraguan jungle and push them out the door of the plane with a "good luck, you're on your own"? |
They do speak Spanish, otherwise, they wouldn't have been able to communicate with their parents and their parents couldn't teach them anything but Spanish (most of them learned Spanish while still in Mexico as the median age would be 9 when they entered illegally). They probably do have family in their parent's homeland. And children and adults move from one country to another all the time. It also teaches a valuable lesson about following the law, which their parents didn't do (nor the people who hired their parents who could be fined now to pay their way back and get established). They also would return via normal transportation, not parachutes. |
Relying on completely false assumptions inevitably leads you to completely assinine conclusions. |
It is asinine to argue that they don't speak Spanish and will be dumped in a jungle. It is also asinine to repeatedly argue that a law shouldn't be enforced but should never be changed or eliminated.
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 09/14/17 7:08 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Seriously tfan, what do you propose to do with somebody who was brought to the US when they were 2 years old, doesn't speak Spanish, has no family, friends, or community in, and no local knowledge of, their parents' homeland, only knows the US, went to school and college here, and now works for Intel or a tech startup making good money and paying taxes as a contributing part of their community? You going to fly them over the Nicaraguan jungle and push them out the door of the plane with a "good luck, you're on your own"? |
They do speak Spanish, otherwise, they wouldn't have been able to communicate with their parents and their parents couldn't teach them anything but Spanish (most of them learned Spanish while still in Mexico as the median age would be 9 when they entered illegally). They probably do have family in their parent's homeland. And children and adults move from one country to another all the time. It also teaches a valuable lesson about following the law, which their parents didn't do (nor the people who hired their parents who could be fined now to pay their way back and get established). They also would return via normal transportation, not parachutes. |
Relying on completely false assumptions inevitably leads you to completely assinine conclusions. |
It is asinine to argue that they don't speak Spanish and will be dumped in a jungle. It is also asinine to repeatedly argue that a law shouldn't be enforced but should never be changed or eliminated. |
If a parent steals bread for a starving child, you don't punish the child fifteen years later.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 09/14/17 7:14 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| It is also asinine to repeatedly argue that a law shouldn't be enforced but should never be changed or eliminated. |
That would be asinine, which is why no one here has done such a thing. Pretty much everyone thinks we need immigration reform, which would change or eliminate most current immigration laws.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9606
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| Posted: 09/14/17 7:27 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Seriously tfan, what do you propose to do with somebody who was brought to the US when they were 2 years old, doesn't speak Spanish, has no family, friends, or community in, and no local knowledge of, their parents' homeland, only knows the US, went to school and college here, and now works for Intel or a tech startup making good money and paying taxes as a contributing part of their community? You going to fly them over the Nicaraguan jungle and push them out the door of the plane with a "good luck, you're on your own"? |
They do speak Spanish, otherwise, they wouldn't have been able to communicate with their parents and their parents couldn't teach them anything but Spanish (most of them learned Spanish while still in Mexico as the median age would be 9 when they entered illegally). They probably do have family in their parent's homeland. And children and adults move from one country to another all the time. It also teaches a valuable lesson about following the law, which their parents didn't do (nor the people who hired their parents who could be fined now to pay their way back and get established). They also would return via normal transportation, not parachutes. |
Relying on completely false assumptions inevitably leads you to completely assinine conclusions. |
It is asinine to argue that they don't speak Spanish and will be dumped in a jungle. It is also asinine to repeatedly argue that a law shouldn't be enforced but should never be changed or eliminated. |
If a parent steals bread for a starving child, you don't punish the child fifteen years later. |
If you want children (or adults who pose as children) to be exempt from immigration law, then rewrite the law to make them exempt.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 9606
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| Posted: 09/14/17 7:31 pm ::: |
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| pilight wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| It is also asinine to repeatedly argue that a law shouldn't be enforced but should never be changed or eliminated. |
That would be asinine, which is why no one here has done such a thing. Pretty much everyone thinks we need immigration reform, which would change or eliminate most current immigration laws. |
You are the only one (open borders) who has ever argued for a change in the law or its enforcement.
Immigration Reform is a deceptive term used by politicians to disguise a second amnesty and also to increase special immigration like H-1Bs.
Virtually no one in Washington talks about enforcing immigration law in the workplace, and certainly not Trump.
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 09/14/17 8:10 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Seriously tfan, what do you propose to do with somebody who was brought to the US when they were 2 years old, doesn't speak Spanish, has no family, friends, or community in, and no local knowledge of, their parents' homeland, only knows the US, went to school and college here, and now works for Intel or a tech startup making good money and paying taxes as a contributing part of their community? You going to fly them over the Nicaraguan jungle and push them out the door of the plane with a "good luck, you're on your own"? |
They do speak Spanish, otherwise, they wouldn't have been able to communicate with their parents and their parents couldn't teach them anything but Spanish (most of them learned Spanish while still in Mexico as the median age would be 9 when they entered illegally). They probably do have family in their parent's homeland. And children and adults move from one country to another all the time. It also teaches a valuable lesson about following the law, which their parents didn't do (nor the people who hired their parents who could be fined now to pay their way back and get established). They also would return via normal transportation, not parachutes. |
Relying on completely false assumptions inevitably leads you to completely assinine conclusions. |
lol. You said they came here at 2 years old, I guess all of them  , they don't speak Spanish  , and we're going to push them out of a helicopter? Plus is it really so necessary a part of the argument against those who oppose DACA and amnesty like vehicles surrounding the issue of illegal immigration to use these kind of grindingly negative personal accusations of someone being completely assinine (sic) or being the advocates of your own hyperbolic scenarios?
Just a piece of advice. Don't tell Californians that a dreamer who came to this country with their parents from Mexico or Central America doesn't speak Spanish. Maybe at cocktail parties on the east coast that misinformation might work but here on the ground in Cali it's an absolute eye-roller. NO ONE who would suggest such a thing can then be taken seriously in a discussion of this topic.
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 19759
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| Posted: 09/14/17 8:16 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Seriously tfan, what do you propose to do with somebody who was brought to the US when they were 2 years old, doesn't speak Spanish, has no family, friends, or community in, and no local knowledge of, their parents' homeland, only knows the US, went to school and college here, and now works for Intel or a tech startup making good money and paying taxes as a contributing part of their community? You going to fly them over the Nicaraguan jungle and push them out the door of the plane with a "good luck, you're on your own"? |
They do speak Spanish, otherwise, they wouldn't have been able to communicate with their parents and their parents couldn't teach them anything but Spanish (most of them learned Spanish while still in Mexico as the median age would be 9 when they entered illegally). They probably do have family in their parent's homeland. And children and adults move from one country to another all the time. It also teaches a valuable lesson about following the law, which their parents didn't do (nor the people who hired their parents who could be fined now to pay their way back and get established). They also would return via normal transportation, not parachutes. |
Relying on completely false assumptions inevitably leads you to completely assinine conclusions. |
lol. You said they came here at 2 years old, I guess all of them , they don't speak Spanish , and we're going to push them out of a helicopter? Plus is it really so necessary a part of the argument against those who oppose DACA and amnesty like vehicles surrounding the issue of illegal immigration to use these kind of grindingly negative personal accusations of someone being completely assinine (sic) or being the advocates of your own hyperbolic scenarios?
Just a piece of advice. Don't tell Californians that a dreamer who came to this country with their parents from Mexico or Central America doesn't speak Spanish. Maybe at cocktail parties on the east coast that misinformation might work but here on the ground in Cali it's an absolute eye-roller.[/b] NO ONE who would suggest such a thing can then be taken seriously in a discussion of this topic. |
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 09/14/17 9:09 pm ::: |
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| fuck him and his wall.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 09/14/17 9:19 pm ::: |
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| cthskzfn wrote: |
| fuck him and his wall. |
There is no wall. Never will be.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 09/14/17 9:31 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Seriously tfan, what do you propose to do with somebody who was brought to the US when they were 2 years old, doesn't speak Spanish, has no family, friends, or community in, and no local knowledge of, their parents' homeland, only knows the US, went to school and college here, and now works for Intel or a tech startup making good money and paying taxes as a contributing part of their community? You going to fly them over the Nicaraguan jungle and push them out the door of the plane with a "good luck, you're on your own"? |
They do speak Spanish, otherwise, they wouldn't have been able to communicate with their parents and their parents couldn't teach them anything but Spanish (most of them learned Spanish while still in Mexico as the median age would be 9 when they entered illegally). They probably do have family in their parent's homeland. And children and adults move from one country to another all the time. It also teaches a valuable lesson about following the law, which their parents didn't do (nor the people who hired their parents who could be fined now to pay their way back and get established). They also would return via normal transportation, not parachutes. |
Relying on completely false assumptions inevitably leads you to completely assinine conclusions. |
lol. You said they came here at 2 years old, I guess all of them , they don't speak Spanish , and we're going to push them out of a helicopter? Plus is it really so necessary a part of the argument against those who oppose DACA and amnesty like vehicles surrounding the issue of illegal immigration to use these kind of grindingly negative personal accusations of someone being completely assinine (sic) or being the advocates of your own hyperbolic scenarios?
Just a piece of advice. Don't tell Californians that a dreamer who came to this country with their parents from Mexico or Central America doesn't speak Spanish. Maybe at cocktail parties on the east coast that misinformation might work but here on the ground in Cali it's an absolute eye-roller.[/b] NO ONE who would suggest such a thing can then be taken seriously in a discussion of this topic. |
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I asked a specific question about a specific situation. Since there is no good response, it is met with sweeping generalizations as if they apply to everyone of the 800,000.
I never claimed none speak Spanish or have family in Central America. Only that some meet that description. Tfan can only respond with assumptions that all speak Spanish and have family ties in Central America.
Lots of them came young. Lots of them don't speak a word of Spanish. Lots of them have absolutely no ties to any country other than the United States.
My question still stands. Tough to deal with, isn't it.
Last edited by ArtBest23 on 09/14/17 9:48 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 09/14/17 9:33 pm ::: |
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| There is and has been for decades a wall in many areas where a wall is what was deemed viable. Fencing and natural barriers exist elsewhere along the border. All of that needs better funding and technology and whatever 'force multipliers' are useful in continuing to secure the border. Trump's wall, as far as his base is concerned and most Americans who oppose 'open borders' is a metaphor or code for a more effective effort to curtail illegal border crossings.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 09/14/17 9:57 pm ::: |
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| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| There is and has been for decades a wall in many areas where a wall is what was deemed viable. Fencing and natural barriers exist elsewhere along the border. All of that needs better funding and technology and whatever 'force multipliers' are useful in continuing to secure the border. Trump's wall, as far as his base is concerned and most Americans who oppose 'open borders' is a metaphor or code for a more effective effort to curtail illegal border crossings. |
Actually it's supposed to be a real wall, constructed out of hardened concrete, rebar and steel, and would be artistically beautiful. Or so Trump said last December.
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jammerbirdi
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 21046
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| Posted: 09/14/17 10:03 pm ::: |
Reply |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| mercfan3 wrote: |
| jammerbirdi wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Seriously tfan, what do you propose to do with somebody who was brought to the US when they were 2 years old, doesn't speak Spanish, has no family, friends, or community in, and no local knowledge of, their parents' homeland, only knows the US, went to school and college here, and now works for Intel or a tech startup making good money and paying taxes as a contributing part of their community? You going to fly them over the Nicaraguan jungle and push them out the door of the plane with a "good luck, you're on your own"? |
They do speak Spanish, otherwise, they wouldn't have been able to communicate with their parents and their parents couldn't teach them anything but Spanish (most of them learned Spanish while still in Mexico as the median age would be 9 when they entered illegally). They probably do have family in their parent's homeland. And children and adults move from one country to another all the time. It also teaches a valuable lesson about following the law, which their parents didn't do (nor the people who hired their parents who could be fined now to pay their way back and get established). They also would return via normal transportation, not parachutes. |
Relying on completely false assumptions inevitably leads you to completely assinine conclusions. |
lol. You said they came here at 2 years old, I guess all of them , they don't speak Spanish , and we're going to push them out of a helicopter? Plus is it really so necessary a part of the argument against those who oppose DACA and amnesty like vehicles surrounding the issue of illegal immigration to use these kind of grindingly negative personal accusations of someone being completely assinine (sic) or being the advocates of your own hyperbolic scenarios?
Just a piece of advice. Don't tell Californians that a dreamer who came to this country with their parents from Mexico or Central America doesn't speak Spanish. Maybe at cocktail parties on the east coast that misinformation might work but here on the ground in Cali it's an absolute eye-roller.[/b] NO ONE who would suggest such a thing can then be taken seriously in a discussion of this topic. |
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I asked you a specific question about a specific situation. Since you have no rational response, you make sweeping bullshit generalizations as if they apply to everyone of the 800,000.
Lots of them came young. Lots of them don't speak a word of Spanish. Lots of them have absolutely no ties to any country other than the United States.
Tough for you to deal with reality isn't it. Hate-mongering is so much simpler when directed at bogus stereotypes than at real people. |
Dude, are you talking to me? lol. I'm FOR Trump's DACA deal with Chuck and Nancy. I applaud it. I don't want to see the dreamers ripped from their lives in the US. I don't want to see most people who are undocumented deported.
2 things though. Who are you accusing of hate-mongering? Because I don't see tfan's expressed positions here as being hate-mongering. I can, however, certainly see that in the environment that has overtaken this forum (and this country) whatever he's saying that is anti-illegal immigration (which I am) must, it seems, be met with personal accusations of being an extremist, racist, xenophobe, etc.
Second, are you really going to cling to this fantasy that dreamers who came here from Mexico and Central America with their parents don't speak Spanish. Dude, that is ludicrous. Fantasy. It's like you showed up at a rally, figured out what side of the street your side was on, they handed you a sign you didn't read or think about and you're only holding it because you were told to. As I've said so many times before, you people who don't live in California know so little about what illegal immigration is, the good and the bad, who benefits from it and why, that when you speak of it it sounds like someone who knows nothing about the WNBA when they write articles about the W. Fans here see right through those people.
Using the preposterous notion that dreamers who came here as children don't speak Spanish as a REASON why it's inhumane to send them back is to try to employ a ludicrous lie, a dumbing down of the debate by orders of magnitude. And it's unnecessary. The battle against DACA was lost when those who fall under its protections were dubbed 'Dreamers.' That's how branding in politics works. Most Americans don't want open borders or illegal immigration but also do not support doing away with DACA and punishing the Dreamers. Trump has sided with Chuck and Nancy. This matter has been decided. By the people and by those in power.
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