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Admiral_Needa



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PostPosted: 09/10/17 7:27 pm    ::: Connecticut Sun 2018 Reply Reply with quote

What's in store for next year? How can CON improve and get to the next level? Question Idea





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toad455



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PostPosted: 09/10/17 7:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

i think Connecticut can be a legit title contender next season. Add in Ogwumike and a draft pick(#9) and they could be very deep. Maybe trade Bentley?

PG: JThomas/draft pick
SG: CWilliams/Bentley/Banham
SF: AThomas/Stricklen
PF: COgwumike/Tuck
C: JJones/Kizer/BJones

GONE: Pederson & Adams.



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justinabina



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PostPosted: 09/10/17 7:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was just about to start this thread! The Sun exceeded expectations this season and were a lot of fun to watch - but it still stings to see the season end.

I'm most curious about what will be done with Ogwumike. Will the starting line-up look like this?

J. Thomas
Williams
A. Thomas
Ogwumike
Jones

Seems like the easiest thing to do, but there's not much consistently demonstrated (over multiple seasons) reliable outside shooting there.

To start, I'd like to see:

- Better free throw shooting. Will Alyssa Thomas get her shoulder fixed? Yes, this particular concern is directly related to the sting of today's loss. >_<

- Speaking of free throw shooting, Courtney Williams (and Alex Bentley) getting to the line more often, especially when shots aren't falling.

- More, in general, from Morgan Tuck.

- A few strong bench players added to replace Danielle Adams etc. Of course now I'm coveting all the under-the-radar-ish players coming through for other teams in the play-offs, like Krystal Thomas, Yvonne Turner, Leilani Mitchell, Monique Currie... Alright, someone help me get back to reality here.

- Not sure what to say about Banham, Pedersen, Kizer, all of whom were positive presences on the bench but not consistently offensively reliable or even playable on the court. Not sure about Brionna Jones - I guess wait and see what her overseas season looks like?


justinabina



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PostPosted: 09/10/17 7:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
i think Connecticut can be a legit title contender next season. Add in Ogwumike and a draft pick(#9) and they could be very deep. Maybe trade Bentley?

PG: JThomas/draft pick
SG: CWilliams/Bentley/Banham
SF: AThomas/Stricklen
PF: COgwumike/Tuck
C: JJones/Kizer/BJones

GONE: Pederson & Adams.


I like this line-up. I like the idea of drafting a PG - hopefully a tall, athletic, immediately competent one Very Happy - will Lexie Brown be around at the 9th pick?

I like Pedersen's hustle and would like to see her back - but not if Kizer recovers well and re-signs with the team, and Brionna Jones shows lots of improvement overseas. But those are two big ifs.


myrtle



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PostPosted: 09/10/17 8:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Pederson would lend depth to several other teams' benches but perhaps not this one if Tuck is actually healthy and can stay that way.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 09/10/17 8:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'll reiterate what I said here, Banham for rights to Cruz. Spanish national team members playing together, lure Torrens over. Miller already half-listened to me by drafting Romero, but that's not good enough, and Cruz is already a proven sustainable player in the WNBA.

JThomas/Romero
CWilliams/Bentley/Cruz
AThomas/Stricklen(not so surprise signing of Torrens)
COgwumike/Tuck/Kizer
JJones/BJones

In the chance that Torrens signs, sell Stricklen for future consideration.

Biggest weakness is backup center, but Ogwumike can back up center.

Second biggest weakness is SG. They are similar in that they tend to disappear when you need them the most. Need something solid and maybe bigger.

If they really wanna be ballsy, trade Ogwumike (if she'll allow it) for a lottery pick and grab Mitchell.



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mavcarter



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PostPosted: 09/10/17 8:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Alyssa Thomas proved she's most valuable at the 4. I guess you can try doing the Thomas/Ogwumike/Jones experiment and see if they can continue the success. I wonder what the market is for Ogwumike with her injury history..



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UK1996



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PostPosted: 09/10/17 9:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If the Sun trade Ogwumike, she could heal up and become an All WNBA player. If they keep her she could slightly mess with the Chemistry. Particularly involving Alyssa Thomas. I think they should keep Chiney and ease her into the season starting Thomas at the 4. If she returns to full form move her back into the starting lineup. It's hard to predict because these types of injuries are unpredictable.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 09/10/17 9:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

A.Thomas' best position is PF,but can you win a championship with her playing Pf ? Can Thomas really guard Parker,Ogwumike,EDD,Charles,Brunson,or Stewart in a playoff situation ?


PUmatty



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PostPosted: 09/10/17 9:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wonder if a lottery team would trade their pick for Chiney and the No. 9. Maybe throw in spare parts to make it work. If healthy, Chiney is obvious lottery quality. I don't know if I would ever trust her health, but if you could she would fit well on any of the lottery teams. And CT could get a high quality player that isn't redundant like Chiney looks now.


Tally24



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PostPosted: 09/10/17 10:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bonner for. Ogwumike.

The Sun get a great forward who doesn't like to post up and can stretch the defense. Perfect compliment to AT's game.

Mercury get a legit 4 who can help our rebounding and provide an additional defensive player, bringing our total up to two and a half defenders.
UK1996



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PostPosted: 09/10/17 10:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
I wonder if a lottery team would trade their pick for Chiney and the No. 9. Maybe throw in spare parts to make it work. If healthy, Chiney is obvious lottery quality. I don't know if I would ever trust her health, but if you could she would fit well on any of the lottery teams. And CT could get a high quality player that isn't redundant like Chiney looks now.

I would approve of Chicago trading the lower of the two picks for Chiney & #9.



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Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 09/10/17 10:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

UK1996 wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
I wonder if a lottery team would trade their pick for Chiney and the No. 9. Maybe throw in spare parts to make it work. If healthy, Chiney is obvious lottery quality. I don't know if I would ever trust her health, but if you could she would fit well on any of the lottery teams. And CT could get a high quality player that isn't redundant like Chiney looks now.

I would approve of Chicago trading the lower of the two picks for Chiney & #9.

This trade is a go only with the approval of the team's doctor.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/10/17 10:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Chiney is healthy you could experiment with bringing A. Thomas off the bench. She could play PF full-time by backing up Ogwumike and sliding Ogwumike to Center when Jones goes out. If not you can always put A. Thomas back in the starting line up at the 3, and Tuck as the main back up at 4.

Also even if not a true PG Nurse should be working on it this season in Conn and is a Husky so I see her being pick at #9.

Romero (last years deferred pick) also becomes a back PG option.

Tuck plays some 3 and some 4

Maybe something like this

J. Thomas/Bentley/Romero
C. Williams/Nurse
Stricklen/Tuck
C. Ogwumike/A. Thomas/Pedersen
J. Jones/Kizer

The depth would allow you to mix and match a lot off different line ups, with players doing time at multiple positions.

Serious question what is Bentley's trade market value? I was trying to figure out some option but truly didn't know what would be considered a fair trade. If the Sun could get a late first round pick, or a decent back up center I would make that move.

You can also stick with B. Jones but I think in a lesser role I would prefer Pedersen.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 09/11/17 9:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So a healthy Chiney produced a PER of 23.9 and 22.9 in her two seasons. Let's just say she's not as effective, as is around 20 moving forward.

Trading her for a top draft pick ...

Last five No. 1s:

Kelsey Plum (9.1 PER)
Breanna Stewart (24.3 in 2017)
Jewel Loyd (19.1)
Chiney (22.9)
Brittney Griner (28.7)

Last five No. 2s:

Alaina Coates (DNP)
Moriah Jefferson (17.0)
Amanda Zahui B (8.6)
Odyssey Sims (16.9)
EDD (28.6)

Last five No. 3s:

Evelyn Akhator (3.2)
Morgan Tuck (6.4)
Kaleena Mosqueda Lewis (10.3)
Kayla McBride (15.5 -- 15.0 is average)
Skylar Diggins (21.3)

So the only three top three picks to outperform Chiney are the Three to See and Steweart ... otherwise she is likely more valuable, and usually much more valuable, than a top three pick. (And remember, Diamond DeShields is considered a top three contender in 2018.)

And though I consider the success of the No. 9 picks a bit fluky, still it's a pretty good list, and better than the 3s.

Last five No. 9s:

Tori Jankoska
Tiffany Mitchell
Brittany Boyd
Natalie Achonwa
Layshia Clarendon

Even if Chiney loses 25% of her production, she's still better than most of the top three picks in the past five years -- and in general, history suggests that trading for a top three choice isn't really a good move, given their success lately. It makes more sense to trade for a proven lower pick, such as Achonwa or Clarendon.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 09/11/17 10:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Even if Chiney loses 25% of her production, she's still better than most of the top three picks in the past five years -- and in general, history suggests that trading for a top three choice isn't really a good move, given their success lately. It makes more sense to trade for a proven lower pick, such as Achonwa or Clarendon.


Forget about trading for lottery picks and focus on #9 picks?

I'm sure Indy fans would be anonymously on board with a Ogwumike for Achonwa trade. Surprised



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 09/11/17 1:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Even if Chiney loses 25% of her production, she's still better than most of the top three picks in the past five years -- and in general, history suggests that trading for a top three choice isn't really a good move, given their success lately. It makes more sense to trade for a proven lower pick, such as Achonwa or Clarendon.


Forget about trading for lottery picks and focus on #9 picks?

I'm sure Indy fans would be anonymously on board with a Ogwumike for Achonwa trade. Surprised


That's not a good deal, of course, but folks seem to want to get rid of Chiney -- my point is that it makes no sense to do so, really.

And also assuming that a No. 9 pick is worth a lot might be a mistake, despite that list. Look at No. 8 and No. 10 and it becomes more clear.



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dtsnms



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PostPosted: 09/11/17 2:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Shades wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Even if Chiney loses 25% of her production, she's still better than most of the top three picks in the past five years -- and in general, history suggests that trading for a top three choice isn't really a good move, given their success lately. It makes more sense to trade for a proven lower pick, such as Achonwa or Clarendon.


Forget about trading for lottery picks and focus on #9 picks?

I'm sure Indy fans would be anonymously on board with a Ogwumike for Achonwa trade. Surprised


That's not a good deal, of course, but folks seem to want to get rid of Chiney -- my point is that it makes no sense to do so, really.

And also assuming that a No. 9 pick is worth a lot might be a mistake, despite that list. Look at No. 8 and No. 10 and it becomes more clear.


Chiney is going nowhere. The whole topic is silly


myrtle



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PostPosted: 09/11/17 3:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I can't see the Sun making any major changes. Their position of greatest need is SF and if Thomas can play there, then Stricklen has shown herself to be a competent, different-look backup. The downside on Thomas is her outside shot, but since JJones can make that shot, and their guards are certainly decent at it, they will still have three who can spread the floor. Jones and Chiney should be a nice complement to each other. If they can get a healthy team, they will be in the mix next year for sure.



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dtsnms



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PostPosted: 09/11/17 3:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
I can't see the Sun making any major changes. Their position of greatest need is SF and if Thomas can play there, then Stricklen has shown herself to be a competent, different-look backup. The downside on Thomas is her outside shot, but since JJones can make that shot, and their guards are certainly decent at it, they will still have three who can spread the floor. Jones and Chiney should be a nice complement to each other. If they can get a healthy team, they will be in the mix next year for sure.


Oh come on Myrtle, don't be making sense now!

Stricklen is a FA by the way. AT is an RFA but both sides are happy.


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PostPosted: 09/11/17 6:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
I can't see the Sun making any major changes. Their position of greatest need is SF and if Thomas can play there, then Stricklen has shown herself to be a competent, different-look backup. The downside on Thomas is her outside shot, but since JJones can make that shot, and their guards are certainly decent at it, they will still have three who can spread the floor. Jones and Chiney should be a nice complement to each other. If they can get a healthy team, they will be in the mix next year for sure.


Courtney Williams is pretty bad at it and Jasmine has had 1 season of good outside shooting. I wouldn't be so sure.


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PostPosted: 09/11/17 8:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Aladyyn wrote:
myrtle wrote:
I can't see the Sun making any major changes. Their position of greatest need is SF and if Thomas can play there, then Stricklen has shown herself to be a competent, different-look backup. The downside on Thomas is her outside shot, but since JJones can make that shot, and their guards are certainly decent at it, they will still have three who can spread the floor. Jones and Chiney should be a nice complement to each other. If they can get a healthy team, they will be in the mix next year for sure.


Courtney Williams is pretty bad at it and Jasmine has had 1 season of good outside shooting. I wouldn't be so sure.



Williams is a capable mid-range shooter, imo, and will probably improve.

The SUN should do nothing w/ Ogumike other than see what she's got left.

They made unexpected strides this year, but were bounced in 1 game, at home. To get over the hump, they need a PF and a PG, imo. Maybe Ogumike can still be the PF.

Maybe they can package Adams, Banham and Jones for dinner and a movie. :^l



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Shades



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PostPosted: 09/12/17 12:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
"As we infuse Chiney back into our post depth, as we continue to build for the future, I can't be more pleased with our core group that is under contract and that we have coming back."


Infuse Chiney back into our post depth? Does that sound like having her come off the bench? He probably doesn't know yet so he doesn't want to say. Need somebody like Megdal out there to ask the tough questions.



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PostPosted: 09/12/17 7:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"Infuse" is probably the wrong word in this situation, unless Miller's solution to the post logjam is rather more... sinister and gross... than I would rather imagine.



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PostPosted: 09/12/17 10:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
"Infuse" is probably the wrong word in this situation, unless Miller's solution to the post logjam is rather more... sinister and gross... than I would rather imagine.


Laughing Laughing Laughing


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PostPosted: 09/12/17 7:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/FR_b_KeHOQQ" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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PostPosted: 09/19/17 5:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Miller Receives Contract Extension

Quote:
The Connecticut Sun announced today that head coach and general manager Curt Miller has been signed to a contract extension through the 2021 season.


Richyyy



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PostPosted: 09/19/17 7:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I know he's done well this year but that's a remarkably long extension, especially for someone with a limited track record. Decent odds they fire him before the end of it, or at least want to and only decide against it to save cash.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 09/20/17 9:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Contract extensions are nice, but unless there's some guaranteed money involved, they're pretty meaningless.



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Ay Mate



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PostPosted: 09/20/17 12:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
I know he's done well this year but that's a remarkably long extension, especially for someone with a limited track record. Decent odds they fire him before the end of it, or at least want to and only decide against it to save cash.


Lol why would they fire him? It's only a 4 yr extension. He's shown he is a great coach and well liked by his players. And um, he won COY and took the team to its best record since 2012 and first playoffs in 4 years. Sometimes you people crack me up with this nonsense. Not to mention all of the 'trade Chiney' treads/posts. Rolling Eyes Laughing

I want some of what you guys are on.


PUmatty



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PostPosted: 09/20/17 6:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ay Mate wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
I know he's done well this year but that's a remarkably long extension, especially for someone with a limited track record. Decent odds they fire him before the end of it, or at least want to and only decide against it to save cash.


Lol why would they fire him? It's only a 4 yr extension. He's shown he is a great coach and well liked by his players. And um, he won COY and took the team to its best record since 2012 and first playoffs in 4 years. Sometimes you people crack me up with this nonsense. Not to mention all of the 'trade Chiney' treads/posts. Rolling Eyes Laughing

I want some of what you guys are on.


You might want to take a look back at the history of coaches who have won COY. It doesn't provide some sort of magic job security.


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PostPosted: 09/21/17 7:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Even if Chiney loses 25% of her production, she's still better than most of the top three picks in the past five years -- and in general, history suggests that trading for a top three choice isn't really a good move, given their success lately. It makes more sense to trade for a proven lower pick, such as Achonwa or Clarendon.


Forget about trading for lottery picks and focus on #9 picks?

I'm sure Indy fans would be anonymously on board with a Ogwumike for Achonwa trade. Surprised


Indy would shut the city down and party for a year, if this trade went through. Pokey would quit chewing gum. They'd cancel the Indy 500.



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RavenDog



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PostPosted: 09/21/17 7:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
I know he's done well this year but that's a remarkably long extension, especially for someone with a limited track record. Decent odds they fire him before the end of it, or at least want to and only decide against it to save cash.


Lol why would they fire him? It's only a 4 yr extension. He's shown he is a great coach and well liked by his players. And um, he won COY and took the team to its best record since 2012 and first playoffs in 4 years. Sometimes you people crack me up with this nonsense. Not to mention all of the 'trade Chiney' treads/posts. Rolling Eyes Laughing

I want some of what you guys are on.


You might want to take a look back at the history of coaches who have won COY. It doesn't provide some sort of magic job security.


COY = Jonquel Jones



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 09/21/17 11:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RavenDog wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
I know he's done well this year but that's a remarkably long extension, especially for someone with a limited track record. Decent odds they fire him before the end of it, or at least want to and only decide against it to save cash.


Lol why would they fire him? It's only a 4 yr extension. He's shown he is a great coach and well liked by his players. And um, he won COY and took the team to its best record since 2012 and first playoffs in 4 years. Sometimes you people crack me up with this nonsense. Not to mention all of the 'trade Chiney' treads/posts. Rolling Eyes Laughing

I want some of what you guys are on.


You might want to take a look back at the history of coaches who have won COY. It doesn't provide some sort of magic job security.


COY = Jonquel Jones


and who brought her in?



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PostPosted: 09/21/17 11:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
and who brought her in?

Officially Chris Sienko, I believe.



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PostPosted: 09/21/17 3:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Miller/Sienko needlessly traded away Chelsea Gray to get Jonquel Jones when he could of and should of drafted J Jones with the third or fourth pick in the Draft. He would of had both along with maybe Aerial Powers or Williams.

No, he foolishly gambled on the chronically injured Morgan Tuck and a questionable and yet to produce Banham.

Just think what Connecticut could of done without him... Embarassed



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Ay Mate



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PostPosted: 09/22/17 9:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RavenDog wrote:
Miller/Sienko needlessly traded away Chelsea Gray to get Jonquel Jones when he could of and should of drafted J Jones with the third or fourth pick in the Draft. He would of had both along with maybe Aerial Powers or Williams.

No, he foolishly gambled on the chronically injured Morgan Tuck and a questionable and yet to produce Banham.

Just think what Connecticut could of done without him... Embarassed


Seinko has always been brain dead. Making bone headed draft choices/trades his entire time with the Sun. As for the Chelsea Gray thing, maybe she was another player who didn't want to be there ala Kelsey Bone/Camille Little. Who knows. Plus, she didn't show much promise when she was with the Sun. I agree the Sun should have never drafted Tuck and Banham. Especially Banham who has been injury free all season and has been useless. At least Tuck started out playing great at the beginning of the season, but then suffered a bone bruise in her other knee. Had she been injury free all season, I believe Tuck would have produced a lot better. Hopefully she comes back next season playing like the player we know she can be.

Banham is a shooter who can't shoot. Send her to Minnesota for Maya Moore.


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PostPosted: 09/22/17 9:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RavenDog wrote:
Miller/Sienko needlessly traded away Chelsea Gray to get Jonquel Jones when he could of and should of drafted J Jones with the third or fourth pick in the Draft. He would of had both along with maybe Aerial Powers or Williams.

No, he foolishly gambled on the chronically injured Morgan Tuck and a questionable and yet to produce Banham.

Just think what Connecticut could of done without him... Embarassed


Always amazed at how fast everyone forgets how bad Gray's knee history has been. I'm really happy for her that she's been healthy, but to forget about it is ridiculous.


Ay Mate



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PostPosted: 09/22/17 9:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

dtsnms wrote:
RavenDog wrote:
Miller/Sienko needlessly traded away Chelsea Gray to get Jonquel Jones when he could of and should of drafted J Jones with the third or fourth pick in the Draft. He would of had both along with maybe Aerial Powers or Williams.

No, he foolishly gambled on the chronically injured Morgan Tuck and a questionable and yet to produce Banham.

Just think what Connecticut could of done without him... Embarassed


Always amazed at how fast everyone forgets how bad Gray's knee history has been. I'm really happy for her that she's been healthy, but to forget about it is ridiculous.


Exactly. She wouldn't have fit in with Miller's super fast uptempo style anyways. She's slow. Good but slow. She fits in perfectly with the Sparks slower style


Aladyyn



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PostPosted: 09/22/17 9:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

dtsnms wrote:
RavenDog wrote:
Miller/Sienko needlessly traded away Chelsea Gray to get Jonquel Jones when he could of and should of drafted J Jones with the third or fourth pick in the Draft. He would of had both along with maybe Aerial Powers or Williams.

No, he foolishly gambled on the chronically injured Morgan Tuck and a questionable and yet to produce Banham.

Just think what Connecticut could of done without him... Embarassed


Always amazed at how fast everyone forgets how bad Gray's knee history has been. I'm really happy for her that she's been healthy, but to forget about it is ridiculous.


In an alternate reality the same post is blaming them for drafting an injury prone Chelsea Gray as the Sun stumble in the standings again.


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PostPosted: 09/22/17 11:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RavenDog wrote:
Miller/Sienko needlessly traded away Chelsea Gray to get Jonquel Jones when he could of and should of drafted J Jones with the third or fourth pick in the Draft. He would of had both along with maybe Aerial Powers or Williams.

No, he foolishly gambled on the chronically injured Morgan Tuck and a questionable and yet to produce Banham.

Just think what Connecticut could of done without him... Embarassed


It's not only Chelsea Gray he traded for JJones. He traded away their first round pick in 2017, which turned out to be a lottery pick (#4) in which LAS traded for Sims and #11 in 2017 (Wiese).

So JJones turned out to be the equivalent of 25% of the Sparks Finals-worthy roster.



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dtsnms



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PostPosted: 09/22/17 11:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
RavenDog wrote:
Miller/Sienko needlessly traded away Chelsea Gray to get Jonquel Jones when he could of and should of drafted J Jones with the third or fourth pick in the Draft. He would of had both along with maybe Aerial Powers or Williams.

No, he foolishly gambled on the chronically injured Morgan Tuck and a questionable and yet to produce Banham.

Just think what Connecticut could of done without him... Embarassed


It's not only Chelsea Gray he traded for JJones. He traded away their first round pick in 2017, which turned out to be a lottery pick (#4) in which LAS traded for Sims and #11 in 2017 (Wiese).

So JJones turned out to be the equivalent of 25% of the Sparks Finals-worthy roster.


Sorry Shades, as much as you hate Miller, he can't control what Dallas does; I'd do the trade to get the most versatile 6'6 player in the league again in a heartbeat.

but a nice try nonetheless.




Last edited by dtsnms on 09/22/17 11:32 am; edited 1 time in total
dtsnms



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PostPosted: 09/22/17 11:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Aladyyn wrote:
dtsnms wrote:
RavenDog wrote:
Miller/Sienko needlessly traded away Chelsea Gray to get Jonquel Jones when he could of and should of drafted J Jones with the third or fourth pick in the Draft. He would of had both along with maybe Aerial Powers or Williams.

No, he foolishly gambled on the chronically injured Morgan Tuck and a questionable and yet to produce Banham.

Just think what Connecticut could of done without him... Embarassed


Always amazed at how fast everyone forgets how bad Gray's knee history has been. I'm really happy for her that she's been healthy, but to forget about it is ridiculous.


In an alternate reality the same post is blaming them for drafting an injury prone Chelsea Gray as the Sun stumble in the standings again.


Huh? Nope, I thought drafting Gray was great there. Don't know where you're coming up with that.


Davis4632



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PostPosted: 09/22/17 1:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RavenDog wrote:
Miller/Sienko needlessly traded away Chelsea Gray to get Jonquel Jones when he could of and should of drafted J Jones with the third or fourth pick in the Draft. He would of had both along with maybe Aerial Powers or Williams.

No, he foolishly gambled on the chronically injured Morgan Tuck and a questionable and yet to produce Banham.

Just think what Connecticut could of done without him... Embarassed
I

Drafting Tuck was more about the narrative of picking the 3rd player from a team that won that won 4 NCs in a row.


Shades



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PostPosted: 09/22/17 1:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

dtsnms wrote:
Shades wrote:
RavenDog wrote:
Miller/Sienko needlessly traded away Chelsea Gray to get Jonquel Jones when he could of and should of drafted J Jones with the third or fourth pick in the Draft. He would of had both along with maybe Aerial Powers or Williams.

No, he foolishly gambled on the chronically injured Morgan Tuck and a questionable and yet to produce Banham.

Just think what Connecticut could of done without him... Embarassed


It's not only Chelsea Gray he traded for JJones. He traded away their first round pick in 2017, which turned out to be a lottery pick (#4) in which LAS traded for Sims and #11 in 2017 (Wiese).

So JJones turned out to be the equivalent of 25% of the Sparks Finals-worthy roster.


Sorry Shades, as much as you hate Miller


You try to project it as hate, when it's just trade evaluation and clarification of the trade. Richyyy echoes a lot of the same things I say about Miller, but you don't accuse him of hate. You don't even confront him like you do with me. I wonder why? Who hates who?

dtsnms wrote:
he can't control what Dallas does


I guess he can't control what he does either.
I guess he felt Gray was a health risk.
I guess he felt that first round pick in 2017 surely wouldn't be a valuable lottery pick.
I guess he was wrong.

The funny thing is he's more likely to admit he's made mistakes than you are.

dtsnms wrote:
I'd do the trade to get the most versatile 6'6 player in the league again in a heartbeat.


What most people have pointed out is the trade didn't need to be made. If you value JJones so much, just draft JJones at #3 or #4, and keep Gray and #4 in 2017 and only be down Tuck or Banham. It's pretty clear he valued both Tuck and Banham more than JJones or the package he sent to the Sparks.

For you to say "you'd do the trade again in a heartbeat" sounds like even with the benefit of hindsight, you'd repeat everything Miller did on draft night 2016. I would expect even Miller would laugh at that notion.



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PostPosted: 09/22/17 2:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

dtsnms wrote:
RavenDog wrote:
Miller/Sienko needlessly traded away Chelsea Gray to get Jonquel Jones when he could of and should of drafted J Jones with the third or fourth pick in the Draft. He would of had both along with maybe Aerial Powers or Williams.

No, he foolishly gambled on the chronically injured Morgan Tuck and a questionable and yet to produce Banham.

Just think what Connecticut could of done without him... Embarassed


Always amazed at how fast everyone forgets how bad Gray's knee history has been. I'm really happy for her that she's been healthy, but to forget about it is ridiculous.


Who forgot? It sure as Hell wasn't Agler. Do you really think Agler would have traded away Jonquel Jones for a player with an injured knee on a hunch? This would be ridiculous.



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dtsnms



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PostPosted: 09/22/17 2:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RavenDog wrote:
dtsnms wrote:
RavenDog wrote:
Miller/Sienko needlessly traded away Chelsea Gray to get Jonquel Jones when he could of and should of drafted J Jones with the third or fourth pick in the Draft. He would of had both along with maybe Aerial Powers or Williams.

No, he foolishly gambled on the chronically injured Morgan Tuck and a questionable and yet to produce Banham.

Just think what Connecticut could of done without him... Embarassed


Always amazed at how fast everyone forgets how bad Gray's knee history has been. I'm really happy for her that she's been healthy, but to forget about it is ridiculous.


Who forgot? It sure as Hell wasn't Agler. Do you really think Agler would have traded away Jonquel Jones for a player with an injured knee on a hunch? This would be ridiculous.


You think Connecticut would've drafted another guard and traded Gray if they thought it would be all right? There's two sides to everything.


justinabina



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PostPosted: 09/22/17 4:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
dtsnms wrote:
Shades wrote:
RavenDog wrote:
Miller/Sienko needlessly traded away Chelsea Gray to get Jonquel Jones when he could of and should of drafted J Jones with the third or fourth pick in the Draft. He would of had both along with maybe Aerial Powers or Williams.

No, he foolishly gambled on the chronically injured Morgan Tuck and a questionable and yet to produce Banham.

Just think what Connecticut could of done without him... Embarassed


It's not only Chelsea Gray he traded for JJones. He traded away their first round pick in 2017, which turned out to be a lottery pick (#4) in which LAS traded for Sims and #11 in 2017 (Wiese).

So JJones turned out to be the equivalent of 25% of the Sparks Finals-worthy roster.


Sorry Shades, as much as you hate Miller


You try to project it as hate, when it's just trade evaluation and clarification of the trade. Richyyy echoes a lot of the same things I say about Miller, but you don't accuse him of hate. You don't even confront him like you do with me. I wonder why? Who hates who?



I haven’t read any post by Richyyy indicating, for example, that Miller might be insecure. In general, I’ve found Richyyy’s posts informative, focused on facts, and absent of strongly biased feelings or defensiveness.


dtsnms



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PostPosted: 09/22/17 4:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justinabina wrote:
Shades wrote:
dtsnms wrote:
Shades wrote:
RavenDog wrote:
Miller/Sienko needlessly traded away Chelsea Gray to get Jonquel Jones when he could of and should of drafted J Jones with the third or fourth pick in the Draft. He would of had both along with maybe Aerial Powers or Williams.

No, he foolishly gambled on the chronically injured Morgan Tuck and a questionable and yet to produce Banham.

Just think what Connecticut could of done without him... Embarassed


It's not only Chelsea Gray he traded for JJones. He traded away their first round pick in 2017, which turned out to be a lottery pick (#4) in which LAS traded for Sims and #11 in 2017 (Wiese).

So JJones turned out to be the equivalent of 25% of the Sparks Finals-worthy roster.


Sorry Shades, as much as you hate Miller


You try to project it as hate, when it's just trade evaluation and clarification of the trade. Richyyy echoes a lot of the same things I say about Miller, but you don't accuse him of hate. You don't even confront him like you do with me. I wonder why? Who hates who?



I haven’t read any post by Richyyy indicating, for example, that Miller might be insecure. In general, I’ve found Richyyy’s posts informative, focused on facts, and absent of strongly biased feelings or defensiveness.



X______________________


BTW, I said I'd make the trade again, at the time, and under the same circumstances.

I never defended the choices that were made of Tuck or Banham. In fact, I have said I wanted Courtney Williams in that number four slot.

If you want to believe Shades' mindset, I'm also sure when Miller and Sienko discussed the trade, they said "Hmm, let's trade next year's pick because then Dallas will unload Odyssey Sims who they can't get anyone else to take, on LA, and she will have a career resurgence under Agler for that pick."

It's wonderful to look at trades in hindsight isn't it? I say again, I'd make that trade in a heartbeat.


Shades



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PostPosted: 09/22/17 5:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

dtsnms wrote:

BTW, I said I'd make the trade again, at the time, and under the same circumstances.


Well again, it doesn't make sense that you would do the trade again unless you're talking about looking at it in hindsight and you would still make the same trade. If you don't understand that could have drafted JJones instead of trading a lot for her, then you'd be making the same mistake.

dtsnms wrote:
I never defended the choices that were made of Tuck or Banham. In fact, I have said I wanted Courtney Williams in that number four slot.


What? Criticism of Miller? Better hope he doesn't see this. It might crush his spirit. He might think you're a hater. But seeing that he traded Bone for Williams, a player you say you liked, you guys can probably hug it out.

dtsnms wrote:
If you want to believe Shades' mindset, I'm also sure when Miller and Sienko discussed the trade, they said "Hmm, let's trade next year's pick because then Dallas will unload Odyssey Sims who they can't get anyone else to take, on LA, and she will have a career resurgence under Agler for that pick."


No, that's your mindset. I just wanted to clarify that JJones cost more than just Chelsea Gray. I guess Miller had no reason to believe that the 2016 season would turn out as badly as it did, but that's the reality. It was kind of a repeat of Thibault in 2010.

dtsnms wrote:
It's wonderful to look at trades in hindsight isn't it? I say again, I'd make that trade in a heartbeat.


I said it was hindsight, but that's how trades get evaluated. How did Cooper's trade of his first round pick get evaluated?

You're also using hindsight in your evaluation of JJones, and saying you'd do the trade again. Let's see your predraft analysis of JJones.



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