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tfan



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PostPosted: 02/09/18 2:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This shows the tunnel that goes under the tracks. It comes out on Bronx Street and then



there is a path over to the Bronx River Pathway that goes up to the Westchester County Center and makes for a shorter route than the one that Google calculates as an 11 minute walk.



Admiral_Needa



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PostPosted: 02/09/18 3:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
This shows the tunnel that goes under the tracks. It comes out on Bronx Street and then



And then...
Arrow


    <iframe width="640" height="360" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/HQmEkgzc9XY" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe> Razz



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/09/18 12:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thanks so much, tfan, for all the research you've done and all that you've shared, including the photos. I'm very grateful.

It was mentioned earlier that this would be a half hour walk from the Metro North train station to the Westchester County Center. Based on what you are reporting, that doesn't seem accurate. It would be great to hear from anyone else who's actually done this walk: what route did you use and how long did it take? I ask because I may want to go to a few Liberty games up there, depending in part on how long the travel will take. Thanks in advance for any answers.



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jmvcity



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PostPosted: 02/09/18 2:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Has any STH gotten in touch with their ticket rep re: the move to Westchester and any possible refunds?


pilight



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PostPosted: 02/09/18 4:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lib re-sign Hartley and Vaughn



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toad455



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PostPosted: 02/09/18 4:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Liberty have also signed L. Allen and R. Allen. We'll basically be the same team as last year plus our #10 pick. How sad.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/09/18 5:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Liberty have also signed L. Allen and R. Allen. We'll basically be the same team as last year plus our #10 pick. How sad.


"Sad" is right on the mark. The same old roster is a predictable result of having a new head coach, no GM, and all the chaos above Katie Smith.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 02/09/18 5:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Everyone else seems to have improved through free agency except New York and Minnesota. Liberty smell like a lottery team.



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jmvcity



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PostPosted: 02/09/18 5:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hopefully the Lil Torches and the Timeless Torches can make the trek to Westchester. If not, they can always recruit from White Plans.
And those air guns they use to throw t-shirts may no longer be needed with such a small crowd.


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PostPosted: 02/09/18 5:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jmvcity wrote:

And those air guns they use to throw t-shirts may no longer be needed with such a small crowd.


Just trade for Kelsey Plum. Wink



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toad455



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PostPosted: 02/09/18 6:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wonder if we'll still get games airing on MSG? Westchester Knicks have their home games televised.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/09/18 6:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jmvcity wrote:
Hopefully the Lil Torches and the Timeless Torches can make the trek to Westchester. If not, they can always recruit from White Plans.
And those air guns they use to throw t-shirts may no longer be needed with such a small crowd.


LOL. This could change the financial picture for selling the Liberty. Reduced expenses: no need for air guns in the budget. Smile



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LibFan25



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PostPosted: 02/09/18 6:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
I wonder if we'll still get games airing on MSG? Westchester Knicks have their home games televised.


yeah that would be nice of them don't cha think? lol (sarcastically)

lol at Vaughn being resigned. lord have mercy.


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/09/18 6:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I've said this before, but now that things are becoming much clearer for the Liberty for 2018... I feel really sad for Katie Smith. She's given so much to women's basketball, she finally gets her first opportunity to be a head coach, and she is in the middle of this mess. We as Liberty fans deserve better than Westchester County Center and a virtually unchanged roster. But Katie Smith also deserves better.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 02/09/18 7:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I hope for women's basketball that the Liberty get new ownership for 2019 and they play either in Brooklyn, Nassau or even Newark.



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Queenie



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PostPosted: 02/09/18 9:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
I wonder if we'll still get games airing on MSG? Westchester Knicks have their home games televised.


I've been assuming that not only will they be televising the games on MSG, at some point during the season someone is going to boast about the increase in ratings.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 02/09/18 9:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
toad455 wrote:
I wonder if we'll still get games airing on MSG? Westchester Knicks have their home games televised.


I've been assuming that not only will they be televising the games on MSG, at some point during the season someone is going to boast about the increase in ratings.


And Borders will make a statement towards the end of the season that attendance is up despite the Liberty's attendance getting cut in half.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 02/09/18 9:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This is going to be a challenge for her. I like Lisa, but sometimes I think she has a little Beverly Hall in her.



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Libra_Girl



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PostPosted: 02/09/18 11:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't understand Dolan has been threatening sell the Liberty for a while but doesn't when he has a chance to & has them playing in a location most fans will have a hard time getting to smh.The only good thing that came out of this is NY still has a team for now.

To add insult to injury the was a recent report that the Knick are making billions for Dolan so he can afford to lose money with his wnba team.

@Queenie Tell Charles Oakley you got his bail money ready lol


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PostPosted: 02/09/18 11:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Libra_Girl wrote:
To add insult to injury the was a recent report that the Knicks are making billions for Dolan so he can afford to lose money with his wnba team.


You must be talking capital gains.

Unless Dolan enjoys the product, a WNBA team is not the best return on investment to hold onto. Owners who don’t particularly enjoy the product are probably holding on and hoping for something to happen that makes WNBA more popular so the value of the teams increase. How’s that suddenly going to happen?



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 02/10/18 12:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

While I still have hope for trades I don't think standing pat lands us in the lottery.

How much other teams really have improved is yet to be seen. TBH Only Dallas and Vegas are jumping off the page at me improvement-wise and we were much better, and slightly better than both those teams.

We even have some hope for improvement based on that good old internal growth.

Hartley was soo much better at the end of the season then at thee beginning. If she continues to develop she could actual be that solid #2 option.

Stokes, B. Allen and Zahui B all regressed, so they can all progress this year and that is an improvement.

Can Prince and Rodgers continue to be mediocre? Sure, but they can also improve.

L. Allen, could take a solid step forward.

And Boyd looked ready to break out this time last year, her return could make a difference.

Most of our really down on the team posts came after they finished third in the regular season, and then lost a one and done game for the second season in a row. We still have some decent pieces and a superstar we ain't toast yet. I can still see that one good trade happening down the line, closer to draft day.

Now if Charles takes the season off or demands a trade (which I can't believe she will do because of her charity and what looks like strong ties to the team) we're screwed. Does anyone follow her on social media, has she said anythin about what is happening with the team, or anything that would seem like a pre-cursor to sitting out or wanting a trade?

Also it did cross my mind with Nayo not on the, "Ok the shoes have dropped, bring back our free agents" list of signing from today, that she might miss the season and focus on team Canada, but I'm sure this is just an over reaction.

Hartley/Boyd/L. Allen
Prince/Rodgers
Zellous/B. Allen
Charles/NRE/Zahui B.
Stokes/Vaughn

#10 coming to knock of one of the Allen's or Zahui B.

I still like all those players and have some hope. It could be a lot worse, let's hope it isn't


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PostPosted: 02/10/18 12:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You also have the flip-side of Seattle fans banking on Boucek-to-Hughes being a significant upgrade - how much could going from Laimbeer to someone who's never been a head coach before hurt? Well-respected assistants who've moved over to the main seat have, at a minimum, taken time to settle and work out what they're doing in recent years in the WNBA. Smith is taking over a team that's already well-acquainted with her, which should smooth the transition, but we don't really know what she's like as a head coach yet.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 02/10/18 12:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah I am a little worried about that, but I am going to have faith.

I think Laimbeer will be a big plus for the Aces, but he was looking a little over it in NY last season.

Katie Smith gives me type A all the way, I doubt she will let herself fail.


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PostPosted: 02/10/18 1:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:

Hartley was soo much better at the end of the season then at thee beginning. If she continues to develop she could actual be that solid #2 option.
L. Allen, could take a solid step forward.
And Boyd looked ready to break out this time last year, her return could make a difference.


Their guards might be their best trading chips. If Boyd is 100%, they could have her with Allen and Hartley backing her up. Hartley could also swing to the 2 and back up Prince and Rodgers. This combo means they could actually trade Prince or Rodgers. With Prince being close to Charles, though, I'd see Rodgers being more likely. Rodgers and Zahui B. to Lynx for Fegbenle and a pick or two?


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PostPosted: 02/10/18 1:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I believe I'm right on the way this works. If not, please correct me.

Unless Tina Charles sits out the season--and since the Liberty's 22-12 regular season record in 2017 would count for half of the calculation for the next lottery--I don't see New York ending up as one of the four worst teams in the league in cumulative 2017-2018 records.

I don't see a great season ahead. But if we're going with 11 of the 12 players from 2017 plus a first-round draft choice, I don't see the Liberty doing so terribly that they'll end up in the next lottery.



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Nerd2



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PostPosted: 02/10/18 1:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
You also have the flip-side of Seattle fans banking on Boucek-to-Hughes being a significant upgrade - how much could going from Laimbeer to someone who's never been a head coach before hurt? Well-respected assistants who've moved over to the main seat have, at a minimum, taken time to settle and work out what they're doing in recent years in the WNBA. Smith is taking over a team that's already well-acquainted with her, which should smooth the transition, but we don't really know what she's like as a head coach yet.


Hope springs eternal! Boucek was too in love with her system and tried to change young players into positionless, versatile pieces. Hughes at least has shown that he will coach to the players he has.

As for Katie, Steph White stepped in and was successful. White had Catchings, Smith has Charles. New York will struggle more because of lack of personnel than bad coaching, I feel.


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PostPosted: 02/10/18 1:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
I believe I'm right on the way this works. If not, please correct me.

Unless Tina Charles sits out the season--and since the Liberty's 22-12 regular season record in 2017 would count for half of the calculation for the next lottery--I don't see New York ending up as one of the four worst teams in the league in cumulative 2017-2018 records.

I don't see a great season ahead. But if we're going with 11 of the 12 players from 2017 plus a first-round draft choice, I don't see the Liberty doing so terribly that they'll end up in the next lottery.


The two year calculation is only for lottery odds once in the lottery. The lottery teams are determined by this year's records only. Whoever misses the playoffs is in the lottery.


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/10/18 2:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
I believe I'm right on the way this works. If not, please correct me.

Unless Tina Charles sits out the season--and since the Liberty's 22-12 regular season record in 2017 would count for half of the calculation for the next lottery--I don't see New York ending up as one of the four worst teams in the league in cumulative 2017-2018 records.

I don't see a great season ahead. But if we're going with 11 of the 12 players from 2017 plus a first-round draft choice, I don't see the Liberty doing so terribly that they'll end up in the next lottery.


The two year calculation is only for lottery odds once in the lottery. The lottery teams are determined by this year's records only. Whoever misses the playoffs is in the lottery.


Thanks for correcting me. Sorry I had this wrong. If Charles is playing this season, it still would be a substantial fall for New York to go from 3rd place at 22-12 to 9th place or worse out of 12 teams. But anything is possible.



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PostPosted: 02/10/18 2:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Nerd2 wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
I believe I'm right on the way this works. If not, please correct me.

Unless Tina Charles sits out the season--and since the Liberty's 22-12 regular season record in 2017 would count for half of the calculation for the next lottery--I don't see New York ending up as one of the four worst teams in the league in cumulative 2017-2018 records.

I don't see a great season ahead. But if we're going with 11 of the 12 players from 2017 plus a first-round draft choice, I don't see the Liberty doing so terribly that they'll end up in the next lottery.


The two year calculation is only for lottery odds once in the lottery. The lottery teams are determined by this year's records only. Whoever misses the playoffs is in the lottery.


Thanks for correcting me. Sorry I had this wrong. If Charles is playing this season, it still would be a substantial fall for New York to go from 3rd place at 22-12 to 9th place or worse out of 12 teams. But anything is possible.


Their good record last year means that if they do fall into the lottery, they would almost certainly have the worst odds. I don't want to wish them ill but the difference in energy at the new venue could be demoralizing. Hoping for the best.


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PostPosted: 02/10/18 2:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:

Hartley was soo much better at the end of the season then at thee beginning. If she continues to develop she could actual be that solid #2 option.
L. Allen, could take a solid step forward.
And Boyd looked ready to break out this time last year, her return could make a difference.


Their guards might be their best trading chips. If Boyd is 100%, they could have her with Allen and Hartley backing her up. Hartley could also swing to the 2 and back up Prince and Rodgers. This combo means they could actually trade Prince or Rodgers. With Prince being close to Charles, though, I'd see Rodgers being more likely. Rodgers and Zahui B. to Lynx for Fegbenle and a pick or two?


Yeah Rodgers is one of my favorites but I would also agree that she is our best trade asset. To get someone better or a much higher draft pick my guess would be a combo of Rodgers and #10. Though if someone is looking for a draft pick and a defensive post Stokes and #10.

Apparently she is still hurt, but Rodgers and #10 for Jefferson would be my trade Du Jour. If Harrison can play a 4/5 combo with Charles than Rodgers and #10 for Harrison, or Stokes and #10 for Harrison (assuming Bill keeps the #1 pick and drafts Wilson I could see harrison be a possibilty for a trade). Clearly Laimbeer likes bringing in some of his previous players. I would also offer both those deals for Hayes, or to move up to #4 or #5 for Deshields or maybe G. Williams, but Deshields ability to create her own shot is a better fit for what NY needs. I'd also take a look at Christmas-Kelley if we could get her for the #10 pick or Stokes and a 2nd round pick.

The only free agent option out there that I like (if healthy) would be S. Johnson who would need to play the 3 in NY.




Last edited by J-Spoon on 02/10/18 2:41 am; edited 1 time in total
Nerd2



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PostPosted: 02/10/18 2:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:

The only free agent option out there that I like (if healthy) would be S. Johnson who would need to play the 3 in NY.


I think you might need Zellous there just because she always seems to make things happen.


J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 02/10/18 2:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:

The only free agent option out there that I like (if healthy) would be S. Johnson who would need to play the 3 in NY.


I think you might need Zellous there just because she always seems to make things happen.


I like Zelous starting at the 3 with Hartley at the PG. Zelous seems to be the de facto PG in the half-court set and that worked the best. But if we moved Rodgers Zelous could play some 2 and 3, an Johnson has that similar ability to plat SF but also run the offense in the half-court. TBH Johnson would be more of a talent grab than a need.


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PostPosted: 02/10/18 2:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I posted in the Wings thread about Christmas-Kelly as trade bait. If she came in and played the 3, Zellous could move to the 2 when Prince wasn't in. A little less offense but better defense, I'd expect.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 02/10/18 2:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Regarding any roster changes there is hope for:

-Improvement from young players within
-A return of Boyd
-A change in offensive structure to something more perimeter-friendly

Boyd's injury is a big deal for a speed player so in no way am I thinking she will return 100% or assuming anything. But a return to some degree of contribution and impact is at least a possibility. Stokes was awful in about half of last year's games, including rebounding and defense. A return to form in at least the stuff she excels at would be an improvement. Zahui is a possibility for improvement as is Nayo.

I vehemently believe that the Rodgers/Prince combo needs to be broken up. Having two reasonably ok scorers share a position is not the best bang for your buck. What I personally want is to keep the #10 pick and draft Nurse. She can shoot the 3, she's got a workable floor game and she has SF size. She can play the 2 or the 3 and she will contribute immediately. Trade Rodgers for whatever you can get. The luxury the Liberty have is they at least have bodies at every spot. They have 5 workable post players. They have at least 2 functional people at the point, 3 if Boyd turns out to be healthy and able to contribute. Adding Nurse and subtracting Sugar leaves you with Prince, Z, Nurse and Allen at the wing positions. Additionally, maybe if you add Nurse's floor game to that of Z's maybe you can get away with Piph at the point a little more often. One of the reasons it didn't work last year was because Sugar's floor game was also pretty deficient.

In turn, Rodgers to LA for the 11th pick makes considerable sense for both teams. LA could really use her speed, explosiveness and shooting ability off the bench...an area they were weak in last year. She'd also benefit from the standpoint that several LA players already have a strong floor game (Gray, Sims, Parker, Nneka, Beard).

Neither Piph nor Sugar really got into a rhythm last year. I think sharing minutes would make this year more of the same. Having Nurse on the wing would give the perimeter part of the team considerably more versatility than having a "2-guard only" in Rodgers who doesn't pass, handle or create particularly well.

Katie Smith also will, in my opinion, run a somewhat different offense from Laimbeer. It might help open things up for some of the younger players to score on the perimeter.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 02/10/18 3:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Regarding any roster changes there is hope for:

-Improvement from young players within
-A return of Boyd
-A change in offensive structure to something more perimeter-friendly

Boyd's injury is a big deal for a speed player so in no way am I thinking she will return 100% or assuming anything. But a return to some degree of contribution and impact is at least a possibility. Stokes was awful in about half of last year's games, including rebounding and defense. A return to form in at least the stuff she excels at would be an improvement. Zahui is a possibility for improvement as is Nayo.

I vehemently believe that the Rodgers/Prince combo needs to be broken up. Having two reasonably ok scorers share a position is not the best bang for your buck. What I personally want is to keep the #10 pick and draft Nurse. She can shoot the 3, she's got a workable floor game and she has SF size. She can play the 2 or the 3 and she will contribute immediately. Trade Rodgers for whatever you can get. The luxury the Liberty have is they at least have bodies at every spot. They have 5 workable post players. They have at least 2 functional people at the point, 3 if Boyd turns out to be healthy and able to contribute. Adding Nurse and subtracting Sugar leaves you with Prince, Z, Nurse and Allen at the wing positions. Additionally, maybe if you add Nurse's floor game to that of Z's maybe you can get away with Piph at the point a little more often. One of the reasons it didn't work last year was because Sugar's floor game was also pretty deficient.

In turn, Rodgers to LA for the 11th pick makes considerable sense for both teams. LA could really use her speed, explosiveness and shooting ability off the bench...an area they were weak in last year. She'd also benefit from the standpoint that several LA players already have a strong floor game (Gray, Sims, Parker, Nneka, Beard).

Neither Piph nor Sugar really got into a rhythm last year. I think sharing minutes would make this year more of the same. Having Nurse on the wing would give the perimeter part of the team considerably more versatility than having a "2-guard only" in Rodgers who doesn't pass, handle or create particularly well.

Katie Smith also will, in my opinion, run a somewhat different offense from Laimbeer. It might help open things up for some of the younger players to score on the perimeter.


I pretty much agree with all of this. The truth is Rodgers was mostly bad on offense once she moved to the bench. To her credit, Sugar did continue to play really good defense, which in a system that emphasizes a team concept is nothing to sneeze at. Still her offense will be easily replaced so you just have to balance out the pro's and con's. Katie did imply in her interviews that she'll try some new things on offense. Probably nothing radical, but as you said some tweaks that take better advantage of the perimeter players would help. Overall, the defense works so I assume Smith will leave it alone. You never know how a coaching change will affect the team, and now we have the venue change on top of that. Hopefully, instead of being demoralized by the demotion to a second class facility, the players will get angry and turn it into a galvanizing experience. Either way, while I can see the Liberty dropping off from last year, I don't see them crashing as others have predicted. The only way they drop into the lottery is if something happens to Tina.



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PostPosted: 02/10/18 3:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don’t think the Lynx would embarrass themselves by pursuing Rodgers after basically giving her away, but Prince isn’t the craziest idea. I’ve always wanted her on the team. I wanted the Lynx to draft Prince instead of Wright. She’s buddies with Seimone from overseas play.

I look at it this way. You got Prince for a player nobody seems to want now. SEA got Howard for the #17 pick and possibly a little extra. Prince for #12 is not an outrageous price. How much are you paying her, because Reeve probably has her heart set on keeping Zandalasini, even though she’ll spend most of her time on the bench.

I think I’d rather have Dantas or Zahui for #12. I suppose you guys are loving Zahui now. She might actually get some playing time with Laimbeer gone.



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PostPosted: 02/10/18 5:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I've said it all off-season. Trade Sugar. Maybe Christmas-Kelly for Rodgers and their 2nd round pick? Dump Zahui B. Minnesota might grab her for nothing. I'd like to see them add in either Bulgak, Jackson-Jones or Dantas.



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PostPosted: 02/10/18 5:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Last year two quotes from Laimbeer stood out in the early season.

-When he said Zahui didn’t know the plays after the Columbia game

-When he questioned Stokes’ fitness level

I’m really curious to see if Katie gets more out of both players. Particularly Zahui, who has some face-up ability.

Both players are also in the last year of their rookie deals. There might be additional motivation and maturity on the part of both players. The fact is that the first round pick makes the team and there could be a trade at another position too. Bec, Zahui and Nayo are all on the bubble at this point, depending who shows what in camp...and who the Libs acquire.



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PostPosted: 02/10/18 5:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If the "pro panel" mock drafts are correct and Russell slides, I would take her at #10. Yes, she lacks intensity, but as I've said before that seems to change with some of the Lady Volunteers once they leave Tennessee. Russell has more offensive ability than Stokes. She'll provide some rim protection whereas you get virtually none from Vaughn. And while Russell can often be passive, no one has accused her of being dumb which is Zahui B's problem. I'm not saying that Mercedes will be great or consistent, but she'll give you a complete two-way option when things are going well. Arguably, we don't have that right now. Picking #10, all you can realistically hope for is a player who can break into your rotation and be useful off the bench. I think Russell can be a good fit. Then maybe we can flip Rodgers for another pick or a player who is a little bigger and can play both wing positions.



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PostPosted: 02/10/18 5:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
If the "pro panel" mock drafts are correct and Russell slides, I would take her at #10. Yes, she lacks intensity, but as I've said before that seems to change with some of the Lady Volunteers once they leave Tennessee. Russell has more offensive ability than Stokes. She'll provide some rim protection whereas you get virtually none from Vaughn. And while Russell can often be passive, no one has accused her of being dumb which is Zahui B's problem. I'm not saying that Mercedes will be great or consistent, but she'll give you a complete two-way option when things are going well. Arguably, we don't have that right now. Picking #10, all you can realistically hope for is a player who can break into your rotation and be useful off the bench. I think Russell can be a good fit. Then maybe we can flip Rodgers for another pick or a player who is a little bigger and can play both wing positions.


I wouldn’t mind flipping Sugar for 11 and getting both Nurse and Russell. Fill both needs at the same time.

Oh and I PM’ed you.



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PostPosted: 02/10/18 5:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
I've said it all off-season. Trade Sugar. Maybe Christmas-Kelly for Rodgers and their 2nd round pick? Dump Zahui B. Minnesota might grab her for nothing. I'd like to see them add in either Bulgak, Jackson-Jones or Dantas.


Oh sweet! Is there way we can get toad in there as the GM of the Liberty? Thomas isn’t cutting it. Surprised



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PostPosted: 02/10/18 5:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Bec, Zahui and Nayo are all on the bubble at this point, depending who shows what in camp...and who the Libs acquire.


SWEET! You guys must be in better shape than the Lynx. You’re wanting to clear out your bench, while I’m desperate to add to the bench.

RAllen just got signed. I’d be surprise if she’s a bubble.

You’d be okay with #12 for Zahui?

Reeve, work your magic....



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PostPosted: 02/10/18 6:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:


Oh and I PM’ed you.


Answered. Smile



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PostPosted: 02/10/18 9:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Regarding any roster changes there is hope for:

-Improvement from young players within
-A return of Boyd
-A change in offensive structure to something more perimeter-friendly

Boyd's injury is a big deal for a speed player so in no way am I thinking she will return 100% or assuming anything. But a return to some degree of contribution and impact is at least a possibility. Stokes was awful in about half of last year's games, including rebounding and defense. A return to form in at least the stuff she excels at would be an improvement. Zahui is a possibility for improvement as is Nayo.


For 2017, I felt (and posted) that our team needed substantial improvement from at least two of our four key younger players: Stokes, Boyd, Rebecca Allen, and Zahui B. We got that improvement from none of them. Boyd was lost. The other three were disappointing.

Looks like we may have the same roster for 2018 except adding our first-round draft pick and getting rid of one of our current players. Here's my view of who might improve:

I've lost faith in Rebecca Allen and Zahui B. Perhaps one or both will surprise me, but I'm not expecting improvement from either of them.

Stokes is crucial, as NYL_WNBA_FAN has rightly said many times. We need the strong defense she showed as a rookie and a solid job on the boards. Absolutely essential given other weaknesses in our roster.

Have to hope with Boyd. I agree with NYL_WNBA_FAN: we can't count on her having all the speed she showed in the past. And I had many questions about Boyd even before her injury. But she could be a real spark for the team, certainly off the bench.

I like both Raincock-Ekunwe and Lindsay Allen. I feel each did reasonably well as WNBA rookies. I believe both of them could be better in season #2.

I believe that Bria Hartley could improve. She had up-and-down stretches last season. Part of that, in my view, was that Bill Laimbeer was struggling with how best to use her. Hartley may be more comfortable on the Liberty this season. And perhaps Katie Smith will have a better idea of how to use her.

Finally, if she's not traded, Sugar Rodgers could certainly improve on last season's very disappointing shooting.

These are my hopes. Could be that none of these players improve. Rather unlikely that all of them will. But if a few of them do, it'll certainly help the Liberty's season.



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PostPosted: 02/10/18 10:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Some comments on the roster move discussion

Shades, Prince for #12 Love it!

Prince can fill some of the Perkins/Montgomery role, NY gets another decent young player, and I get to keep my girl Sugar who can move back into the starting line-up between Hartley and Zelous, where I think she thrived last season.

Zahui B for #12 all love it, but I'm having a feeling this is the year Zahui B breaks out so while I think getting a first rounder for her based on last season would be amazing, I still think she can turn it around this season, so while I would have to do it if it was on the table it does make me a little nervous.

So why not do both Prince for #12, Zahui B and NY 2019 2nd round pick for Minny's 2019 first round pick. This opens up 2 spot for #10 and #12 in NY, and Minny gets their vet guard and cheap post to develop with Minn ties. (OK I doubt this happens but could be fun)

Nurse at #10 also love it, but I don't think it will happen. Mike T could very easily take Nurse at #7 and I don't see her dropping past USun at #9. Miller like 3 point shooting, the Sun like UConn players, Nurses size allows her to play 2 or 3 giving her a versatility advantage over other picks. I don't see her getting past #9.

I also think Russell could go as high as #4, could easily go at #5, 6, 7, or 8 so the chance she is still on the board at #10 or #12 would be shocking to me. On the other hand maybe people see her falling because she just doesn't have the motor to make it in the W, in which case while I would be open to her. I'm not that excited about her.

So if that is the case while I like #10 and #12 as Nurse/Russell, if they're off the board does it have the same appeal as Vivians/Scaife, Vadeeva/Nared, Canada/Mavunga, or Billings/S. Thomas? (Mix and match as you see fit).

With Cappie out in Chicago I wonder if Rodgers and #10 could get us up to #4 and land us Deshields. That is still my 1st choice move. (I would even consider starting Deshields ahead of Prince, and have Prince as the featured scorer in the 2nd unit.) and the 2 assets for 1 move solves the roster size issue. (OK now that I think about it Chicago could just keep 3 and 4 and get one of Deshields or Mitchell at #3 to replace Cappie, so they probably don't really need to make that trade, but the Coach does like a 3 and D player like Rodgers and might need a couple more vets if they want to move up in the rankings. IDK)

Hartley/Boyd/L. Allen
Deshields/Prince
Zelous/B. Allen
Charles/Raincock-Ekunwe/Zahui B.
Stokes/Vaughn


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PostPosted: 02/10/18 11:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
Some comments on the roster move discussion

Shades, Prince for #12 Love it!

Prince can fill some of the Perkins/Montgomery role, NY gets another decent young player, and I get to keep my girl Sugar who can move back into the starting line-up between Hartley and Zelous, where I think she thrived last season.

Zahui B for #12 all love it, but I'm having a feeling this is the year Zahui B breaks out so while I think getting a first rounder for her based on last season would be amazing, I still think she can turn it around this season, so while I would have to do it if it was on the table it does make me a little nervous.

So why not do both Prince for #12, Zahui B and NY 2019 2nd round pick for Minny's 2019 first round pick. This opens up 2 spot for #10 and #12 in NY, and Minny gets their vet guard and cheap post to develop with Minn ties. (OK I doubt this happens but could be fun)

Nurse at #10 also love it, but I don't think it will happen. Mike T could very easily take Nurse at #7 and I don't see her dropping past USun at #9. Miller like 3 point shooting, the Sun like UConn players, Nurses size allows her to play 2 or 3 giving her a versatility advantage over other picks. I don't see her getting past #9.

I also think Russell could go as high as #4, could easily go at #5, 6, 7, or 8 so the chance she is still on the board at #10 or #12 would be shocking to me. On the other hand maybe people see her falling because she just doesn't have the motor to make it in the W, in which case while I would be open to her. I'm not that excited about her.

So if that is the case while I like #10 and #12 as Nurse/Russell, if they're off the board does it have the same appeal as Vivians/Scaife, Vadeeva/Nared, Canada/Mavunga, or Billings/S. Thomas? (Mix and match as you see fit).

With Cappie out in Chicago I wonder if Rodgers and #10 could get us up to #4 and land us Deshields. That is still my 1st choice move. (I would even consider starting Deshields ahead of Prince, and have Prince as the featured scorer in the 2nd unit.) and the 2 assets for 1 move solves the roster size issue. (OK now that I think about it Chicago could just keep 3 and 4 and get one of Deshields or Mitchell at #3 to replace Cappie, so they probably don't really need to make that trade, but the Coach does like a 3 and D player like Rodgers and might need a couple more vets if they want to move up in the rankings. IDK)

Hartley/Boyd/L. Allen
Deshields/Prince
Zelous/B. Allen
Charles/Raincock-Ekunwe/Zahui B.
Stokes/Vaughn


That’s a good-looking roster in my book. You could even play Piph, DD and Z together for stretches provided either Z or DD is a primary ball handler. For the purpose of dictating tempo.



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PostPosted: 02/10/18 11:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Regarding any roster changes there is hope for:

-Improvement from young players within
-A return of Boyd
-A change in offensive structure to something more perimeter-friendly

Boyd's injury is a big deal for a speed player so in no way am I thinking she will return 100% or assuming anything. But a return to some degree of contribution and impact is at least a possibility. Stokes was awful in about half of last year's games, including rebounding and defense. A return to form in at least the stuff she excels at would be an improvement. Zahui is a possibility for improvement as is Nayo.


For 2017, I felt (and posted) that our team needed substantial improvement from at least two of our four key younger players: Stokes, Boyd, Rebecca Allen, and Zahui B. We got that improvement from none of them. Boyd was lost. The other three were disappointing.

Looks like we may have the same roster for 2018 except adding our first-round draft pick and getting rid of one of our current players. Here's my view of who might improve:

I've lost faith in Rebecca Allen and Zahui B. Perhaps one or both will surprise me, but I'm not expecting improvement from either of them.

Stokes is crucial, as NYL_WNBA_FAN has rightly said many times. We need the strong defense she showed as a rookie and a solid job on the boards. Absolutely essential given other weaknesses in our roster.

Have to hope with Boyd. I agree with NYL_WNBA_FAN: we can't count on her having all the speed she showed in the past. And I had many questions about Boyd even before her injury. But she could be a real spark for the team, certainly off the bench.

I like both Raincock-Ekunwe and Lindsay Allen. I feel each did reasonably well as WNBA rookies. I believe both of them could be better in season #2.

I believe that Bria Hartley could improve. She had up-and-down stretches last season. Part of that, in my view, was that Bill Laimbeer was struggling with how best to use her. Hartley may be more comfortable on the Liberty this season. And perhaps Katie Smith will have a better idea of how to use her.

Finally, if she's not traded, Sugar Rodgers could certainly improve on last season's very disappointing shooting.

These are my hopes. Could be that none of these players improve. Rather unlikely that all of them will. But if a few of them do, it'll certainly help the Liberty's season.


I really like both Nayo and L. Allen too. I love “vision” players like Allen and energy players like Nayo. Both have certain physical talents that demonstrate upside.



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PostPosted: 02/10/18 11:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
I really like both Nayo and L. Allen too. I love “vision” players like Allen and energy players like Nayo. Both have certain physical talents that demonstrate upside.


I agree completely.

I felt Lindsay Allen had a lot of challenges. It's surely tough being a rookie point guard. In addition, Allen was released, then brought back as the 12th player on the roster. Hard to feel secure. The team had a lot of guards and Laimbeer seemed to be trying most of them at point guard. Allen couldn't be sure she'd get two five-minute stints off the bench game after game; she might or she might not. I viewed all that as a difficult situation... but, despite that, I thought Allen improved as the season went on.

Over his years in New York, Bill Laimbeer put so many players at point guard who really weren't point guards. That was his approach. Reminds me of my beloved New York Mets, who over their history have put 92 guys in center field who weren't center fielders.

I don't know 1/1000th of what Laimbeer knows about basketball, but I do believe in having a genuine point guard on the floor. Lindsay Allen is. I can't say how good she'll be over time, but I'd like to see her get a long look this season.



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PostPosted: 02/11/18 12:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

All I know is that the Yankees traded for Russell Wilson this week, which means they got a starting quarterback before the Jets did.



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PostPosted: 02/11/18 12:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
All I know is that the Yankees traded for Russell Wilson this week, which means they got a starting quarterback before the Jets did.


Does this mean that you don't view Christian Hackenberg as the answer to the Jets' endless quarterback problem? Smile



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