RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

New York Liberty 2018
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 14569



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/12/17 5:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In terms of starting PGs, yeah Hartley's at the bottom. Grateful she was able to do what she was able to do, but with a healthy Boyd & hopefully either L. Allen or a FA PG, Hartley should be our back-up SG next season.



_________________
LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY
LibFan25



Joined: 01 Sep 2012
Posts: 352
Location: Yonkers, NY


Back to top
PostPosted: 09/12/17 6:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
I was rough on Bria in the first part of the season, and I'm still not thrilled with her, but she seems to have found a niche. But her being far better as a starter than as a reserve just fucks up the rotation further. I don't think we can bench both Piph and Sugar, I don't think Bria and Brittany Boyd are a balanced combo in the backcourt, and I don't think we can go three-guard set with the guards we have (and if we did, where does that leave Z?).


Yeah Liberty management definitely have some tough decisions to make, I think they still believe in Boyd, they love Z's leadership so I don't think they are going anywhere. I can see them letting Hartley walk or resigning, Piph and Sugar both have some value, I think Sugar has more value due to her being younger and being available(overseas commitment)


ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 8420



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/12/17 9:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The object is to win games, and with Hartley starting, New York won a lot of games.

But correlation is not causation, necessarily, and saying Hartley is better than Prince at lead guard is not saying a lot. (Prince is a decent two guard, but not a point.)

Which leads to the next point: Zellous turns 32 late next summer, and for her career, PER has her as a just below-average player. I'm not buying that completely, but what value does an older shooting guard have who has had an above average PER three times in her nine-year career?

Yes, she has some value, but what GM would give up a young player with potential for a veteran who might give a team a year or two before fading? Or maybe no years at all?

Epiphanny Prince turns 29 in January so she too is trending downward on the effectiveness curve, though of course she could still be a strong player for several years. Her PER is much better than Zellous, but then again PER doesn't capture defense as well as it might.

Like most veterans, though, Prince's TOs have gone down, but she also doesn't get to the free-throw line nearly as much as she did before.

So what team needs two older perimeter players (expensive ones, at that, I believe) badly enough to give up a younger asset that could help the Liberty get the most out of Tina Charles?

OK, throw in the No. 10, which netted these players in the last five years:

Kaela Davis
Imani Boyette
Samantha Logic
Markeisha Gatling
A'dia Matthies

The bottom line, I would say, for New York is that the most likely option is to hope Boyd comes back at full strength, and that Hartley, Zellous and Prince all have really good years. After all, the team went 22-12 this season, which is pretty good, and did so without Boyd.



_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 44364



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/12/17 10:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Fenerbahce Women's Team's new transfer is learned that it is difficult for Kia Vaughn to be a European citizen.

Previously, Kelsey Plumm and Aerial Powers, who joined the Yellow Lacivertlists, wanted to play Vaughn, a Czech citizen, as European. However, the fact that the player is wearing the U20 in the US National Team is seen as an obstacle to this situation.

According to the new rule in our league, teams will be able to crawl 4 aliens, but only 2 of them may be illegal. Plumm and Powers will be able to leave Vaughn out of the league.



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
Aladyyn



Joined: 23 Jul 2017
Posts: 488
Location: Czech Republic


Back to top
PostPosted: 09/13/17 5:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Could Jamierra Faulkner be a trade target for New York?


Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 15150
Location: Queens


Back to top
PostPosted: 09/13/17 7:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Aladyyn wrote:
Could Jamierra Faulkner be a trade target for New York?


I'd enjoy it, but I think she might be much of a muchness if we're keeping Boyd. IMO, we need a PG with a jumper.



_________________
We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.
toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 14569



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/13/17 7:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Aladyyn wrote:
Could Jamierra Faulkner be a trade target for New York?


She could, but what are we giving Chicago? R. Allen? Not our biggest need for 2018.



_________________
LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 54945
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 09/13/17 7:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Aladyyn wrote:
Could Jamierra Faulkner be a trade target for New York?


Evil Bill does like big guards...



_________________
Happiness depends, as Nature shows,
Less on exterior things than most suppose
Rock Hard



Joined: 02 Aug 2010
Posts: 2692
Location: Chocolate Paradise


Back to top
PostPosted: 09/13/17 9:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
Aladyyn wrote:
Could Jamierra Faulkner be a trade target for New York?


I'd enjoy it, but I think she might be much of a muchness if we're keeping Boyd. IMO, we need a PG with a jumper.

If you want a point guard with a jumper then New York's primary objective should be to acquire Lexie Brown in next year's draft. You might have to trade up to get her because other teams might be coveting her also.



_________________
Do not give what is holy to dogs, and do not throw your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet and turn and tear you to pieces.
LibFan25



Joined: 01 Sep 2012
Posts: 352
Location: Yonkers, NY


Back to top
PostPosted: 09/13/17 10:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
Queenie wrote:
Aladyyn wrote:
Could Jamierra Faulkner be a trade target for New York?


I'd enjoy it, but I think she might be much of a muchness if we're keeping Boyd. IMO, we need a PG with a jumper.

If you want a point guard with a jumper then New York's primary objective should be to acquire Lexie Brown in next year's draft. You might have to trade up to get her because other teams might be coveting her also.


If she has another great year like she did last, she won't even get pass the 6th pick. I can see Dallas scooping her up.

Duke vs Ohio state --- that Brown vs Mitchell matchup will be fun and interesting to watch.


toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 14569



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/13/17 10:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Seattle might be eyeing Lexie Brown. Unless players like Collier, Stevens & McGowan declare early.



_________________
LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY
LibFan25



Joined: 01 Sep 2012
Posts: 352
Location: Yonkers, NY


Back to top
PostPosted: 09/13/17 7:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
I think Seattle might be eyeing Lexie Brown. Unless players like Collier, Stevens & McGowan declare early.


i think Seattle might be looking for a need then "best available" they need a post player badly


J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 4042



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/13/17 9:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LibFan25 wrote:
toad455 wrote:
I think Seattle might be eyeing Lexie Brown. Unless players like Collier, Stevens & McGowan declare early.


i think Seattle might be looking for a need then "best available" they need a post player badly


This is why I think Stokes and #10 for #5 is a trade that makes sense for both teams. Seattle already has its two stars they need to build around them. Stokes is a nice defensive post to play with Stewart and Loyd and someone like Nurse or Canada at #10 would be a good fit for Seattle. NY needs a higher impact player, if that player can be obtained at #5 say Deshields, K. Mitchell or G. Williams than we should go for it. (Of course if they go 2, 3, and 4 I would probably rather just keep Stokes and whoever we would get at #10 possibly Nared Nurse or Canada).


Michelle89



Joined: 17 Nov 2010
Posts: 14467
Location: Holland


Back to top
PostPosted: 09/14/17 3:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
LibFan25 wrote:
toad455 wrote:
I think Seattle might be eyeing Lexie Brown. Unless players like Collier, Stevens & McGowan declare early.


i think Seattle might be looking for a need then "best available" they need a post player badly


This is why I think Stokes and #10 for #5 is a trade that makes sense for both teams. Seattle already has its two stars they need to build around them. Stokes is a nice defensive post to play with Stewart and Loyd and someone like Nurse or Canada at #10 would be a good fit for Seattle. NY needs a higher impact player, if that player can be obtained at #5 say Deshields, K. Mitchell or G. Williams than we should go for it. (Of course if they go 2, 3, and 4 I would probably rather just keep Stokes and whoever we would get at #10 possibly Nared Nurse or Canada).


Dont follow the college players but yeah i would do that based of a HUGE need for a defensive center that can take the pressure of Stewart and fix our defense. Let Langhorne come off the bench



_________________
"Sue Bird and Lauren Jackson were and are the dynamic duo. They're the one-two punch. They're all the clich�s possible to describe people that perfectly complement each other, who make each other better and also bring out the best in the team." �Karen Bryant
Happycappie25



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 3882
Location: QUEENS!!!!


Back to top
PostPosted: 09/14/17 5:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
LibFan25 wrote:
toad455 wrote:
I think Seattle might be eyeing Lexie Brown. Unless players like Collier, Stevens & McGowan declare early.


i think Seattle might be looking for a need then "best available" they need a post player badly


This is why I think Stokes and #10 for #5 is a trade that makes sense for both teams. Seattle already has its two stars they need to build around them. Stokes is a nice defensive post to play with Stewart and Loyd and someone like Nurse or Canada at #10 would be a good fit for Seattle. NY needs a higher impact player, if that player can be obtained at #5 say Deshields, K. Mitchell or G. Williams than we should go for it. (Of course if they go 2, 3, and 4 I would probably rather just keep Stokes and whoever we would get at #10 possibly Nared Nurse or Canada).


Dont follow the college players but yeah i would do that based of a HUGE need for a defensive center that can take the pressure of Stewart and fix our defense. Let Langhorne come off the bench


toss in our 2nd OR the rights to Shoni and give us swords back and you got a deal otherwise Stokes is a lot to give up...going north with your centers being Vaughn and zhaui isn't an easy feeling



_________________
"Leave it to the NCAA women's basketball committee to turn a glass slipper into glass ceiling" Graham Hays
zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 5967



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/14/17 8:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stokes for the 5th pick seems about right.Throwing in the #10 pick would be excessive,unless you're also getting back Langhorne.


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
Posts: 19557
Location: London


Back to top
PostPosted: 09/14/17 9:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe the Stokes from her rookie year gets you back the #5 straight up in this draft, but at this point thre's a reason that New York fans are decidedly willing to dump her. She's spent all this season as the backup to a player Lib fans are also trying to get shot of. She seems like she'd be a nice fit in Seattle, but don't overpay for a center again to get her.



_________________
Independent WNBA coverage: http://www.wnbalien.com/
zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 5967



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/14/17 9:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Lib fans are that down on Stokes,send her to dallas for Christmas & the #6 pick........You can keep the #10 pick.


willtalk



Joined: 13 Apr 2012
Posts: 210
Location: NorCal


Back to top
PostPosted: 09/14/17 9:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Happy--- Shoni's problem has always been allowing her self to get out of shape in the off season. Why should anyone believe that she would keep in WNBA basketball shape after an entire season off when she couldn't ever do it between seasons. Unless she actually shows that she has changed that cycle she has 0 trade value. NY has nothing to lose inviting her to camp because they already hold her rights .


ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 8420



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/14/17 10:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Kiah Stokes for Diamond DeShields seems like an even deal to me ...

The potential is there for both, but you have no idea what you're going to get.



_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
Nixtreefan



Joined: 14 Nov 2012
Posts: 1227



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/14/17 10:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well said Forest Gump Wink Laughing


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 11688



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/14/17 10:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Maybe the Stokes from her rookie year gets you back the #5 straight up in this draft, but at this point thre's a reason that New York fans are decidedly willing to dump her. She's spent all this season as the backup to a player Lib fans are also trying to get shot of. She seems like she'd be a nice fit in Seattle, but don't overpay for a center again to get her.


I agreed with everything up to "she'd be a nice fit in Seattle." Strikes me the last thing they need is another too-short center, especially when this one lacks the offensive output of the current one.


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 44364



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/14/17 11:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Kiah Stokes for Diamond DeShields seems like an even deal to me ...

The potential is there for both, but you have no idea what you're going to get.


I would assume we've already seen near the ceiling of Stokes, while with DeShields that ceiling could be a bit higher. Boom/bust with DeShields, stable middlin' expectations with Stokes.



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 4042



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/14/17 1:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I would love to do it without #10 but was trying to be realistic.

Not down on Stokes tbh I think she is our player with the highest trade value, but I don't think it is top 5 pick high. (Stokes to Dallas for #6 might work, I think Christmas is an UFA as well.)

I think we might able to get Swords for free she is an Unrestricted free agent. I doubt Seattle cores her because that means paying her a max contract if no one is willing to trade for her.

So if it looks better Stokes and #10 for Swords and #5 (but really we just sign Swords as an UFA).


J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 4042



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/14/17 2:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Maybe the Stokes from her rookie year gets you back the #5 straight up in this draft, but at this point thre's a reason that New York fans are decidedly willing to dump her. She's spent all this season as the backup to a player Lib fans are also trying to get shot of. She seems like she'd be a nice fit in Seattle, but don't overpay for a center again to get her.


I agreed with everything up to "she'd be a nice fit in Seattle." Strikes me the last thing they need is another too-short center, especially when this one lacks the offensive output of the current one.


Stokes is bigger than Langhorne and more athletic than Swords. There simply aren't that many 6' 5" plus athletic centers out there so Stokes id probably the next best thing. Combining her with Langhorne as a 2 headed center is a good option for Seattle. Who else is out there that would be better for Seattle?


Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 1955
Location: New York City


Back to top
PostPosted: 09/14/17 3:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I agree that Stokes is the Liberty player with the highest trade value. I would be stunned if any team would trade the #5 pick for Stokes. I like Stokes, but I certainly wouldn't.



_________________
Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.
ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 11688



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/14/17 5:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Maybe the Stokes from her rookie year gets you back the #5 straight up in this draft, but at this point thre's a reason that New York fans are decidedly willing to dump her. She's spent all this season as the backup to a player Lib fans are also trying to get shot of. She seems like she'd be a nice fit in Seattle, but don't overpay for a center again to get her.


I agreed with everything up to "she'd be a nice fit in Seattle." Strikes me the last thing they need is another too-short center, especially when this one lacks the offensive output of the current one.


Stokes is bigger than Langhorne and more athletic than Swords. There simply aren't that many 6' 5" plus athletic centers out there so Stokes id probably the next best thing. Combining her with Langhorne as a 2 headed center is a good option for Seattle. Who else is out there that would be better for Seattle?


Desperation because there's nobody better available doesn't make her a good fit. It just means there's no good choices.

They might be a "two headed" center only if you could play them both at the same time and have them count as only one player. But since you can't, they both remain seriously flawed.

Adding Stokes wouldn't help their situation. It would just waste whatever they give up to get her.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 11688



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/14/17 5:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
I agree that Stokes is the Liberty player with the highest trade value. I would be stunned if any team would trade the #5 pick for Stokes. I like Stokes, but I certainly wouldn't.


+____________

Actually, on further thought, nobody should, but I should never be "stunned" by dumb WNBA transactions.

Somebody might even though you and I certainly wouldn't.


Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 1955
Location: New York City


Back to top
PostPosted: 09/14/17 7:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
I agree that Stokes is the Liberty player with the highest trade value. I would be stunned if any team would trade the #5 pick for Stokes. I like Stokes, but I certainly wouldn't.


+____________

Actually, on further thought, nobody should, but I should never be "stunned" by dumb WNBA transactions.

Somebody might even though you and I certainly wouldn't.


It's worth noting that dumb transactions are hardly limited to the WNBA. Smile

Still, your point is valid. I'd be stunned if some team would trade the #5 pick for Stokes, but it would be far from the first time I've been stunned in this way.



_________________
Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.
Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 44364



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/14/17 7:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Somebody traded the #6 pick for Swords



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
Nerd2



Joined: 06 Jun 2010
Posts: 7335



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/14/17 7:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
I agree that Stokes is the Liberty player with the highest trade value. I would be stunned if any team would trade the #5 pick for Stokes. I like Stokes, but I certainly wouldn't.


I know the coaching staff was expecting her to have a great year and would love to know what happened. I suspect they are not ready to give up on her though.

That being said, I don't want the Storm to try and get her with that #5 pick which is a lot more valuable this year than the #6 was last year.


J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 4042



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/14/17 11:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
I agree that Stokes is the Liberty player with the highest trade value. I would be stunned if any team would trade the #5 pick for Stokes. I like Stokes, but I certainly wouldn't.


+____________

Actually, on further thought, nobody should, but I should never be "stunned" by dumb WNBA transactions.

Somebody might even though you and I certainly wouldn't.


It's worth noting that dumb transactions are hardly limited to the WNBA. Smile

Still, your point is valid. I'd be stunned if some team would trade the #5 pick for Stokes, but it would be far from the first time I've been stunned in this way.


Which is why I started this whole discussion with Stokes and #10 for #5.

Putting it in player terms lets say Stokes and Nurse for Deshields, that doesn't seem too crazy for either team.

I like Stokes and I still think Seattle with Stokes and Langhorne at center, will be better than Seattle with Swords and Langhorne at center.

Swords seemed like a good fit last year and is 6' 6" and a rim protector but it didn't work. (Also Seattle traded their #6 pick for her. Now maybe regretting that mistake the Storm will want their first round pick) but I think Stokes' greater speed might be a better fit for Seattle, and Kiah is better at defending the Parker/Ogwumike of the world and even the Griner and Fowls of the world which Seattle will need help with if they want to compete with those teams. I think Seattle is win now and a defensive post to play with Stewart is a priority. I don't see them thinking that drafting Russell will be the best option. SO I think trading down and getting a solid defensive post is a good move.

This probably fits better in the Seattle thread but if not Stokes than who would be a good trade or draft target? Lavender? Kizer? Ch. Parker? Pedersen? Boyette? maybe Boyette but pretty risky and you wouldn't be also getting a #10 pick, maybe a #16 pick, but I'd rather have Stokes and #10. It is a hypothetical so who knows, but I think Stokes and #10 for #5 is a very viable trade.


zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 5967



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/15/17 10:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Liberty fans were so against trading Stokes for Sims last off season Laughing ....Just like dallas fans were against trading Sims for Dolson

When you have a void,fill it...when you have excess at one position but a need at another,trade the excess to fill the void....These wnba GM/HC are so freaking stupid.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 11688



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/15/17 11:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Liberty fans were so against trading Stokes for Sims last off season Laughing ....Just like dallas fans were against trading Sims for Dolson

When you have a void,fill it...when you have excess at one position but a need at another,trade the excess to fill the void....These wnba GM/HC are so freaking stupid.


Now, Powers for Stokes. That would make sense from Dallas's standpoint and would certainly seem to meet your theory.


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 44364



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/15/17 11:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Liberty fans were so against trading Stokes for Sims last off season


Wouldn't you be? Sims as a PG isn't really her strong suit and NYL already have enough combo guards that are on the short side. There was the notion that Sims may be washed up after that 2016 season. Even you were trying to trade her to every team. I know your plan was to get a post for Sims, but what Dallas ended up doing is getting a younger bigger guard who wouldn't step on Diggins' toes.

zune69 wrote:
Just like dallas fans were against trading Sims for Dolson


It takes two to trade, so why would Chicago make this trade? They'd be stuck relying on Boyette, overloaded at guard, plus they'd only one have lottery pick. You must have made the assumption that Coates would be good to go for Chicago this season.

zune69 wrote:
When you have a void,fill it...when you have excess at one position but a need at another,trade the excess to fill the void....These wnba GM/HC are so freaking stupid.


Cooper listened to you and it may have cost him his job. Wink

Zune, every time a team loses a game (and I mean EVERY time) you're coming up with trades on the heels of that loss to fix their problems. Never mind that somebody could have just had a bad game or whatever, or there may be a good player out on a season ending injury. This isn't fantasy sports where you swap players weekly and your problems are solved. There's concepts in real life sports such as chemistry and continuity that seem foreign to you.

Now I can't guarantee that Washington will ever have great chemistry because that's one element Delle Donne doesn't bring to any team, but they could be helped with a few years of continuity.



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 5967



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/15/17 12:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Wouldn't you be? Sims as a PG isn't really her strong suit and NYL already have enough combo guards that are on the short side. There was the notion that Sims may be washed up after that 2016 season. Even you were trying to trade her to every team. I know your plan was to get a post for Sims, but what Dallas ended up doing is getting a younger bigger guard who wouldn't step on Diggins' toes.


Ny still needs a guard that can break down the defense,get to the rim,and defend.Sims can do all three......I don't believe dallas would have drafted Akhator without having the #4 pick in their back pocket....at least I hope not.Dallas imo had their eyes set on Coates.But once chicago made their pick,they Panicked,and selected Ahkator higher than she was projected to go.

Shades wrote:
It takes two to trade, so why would Chicago make this trade? They'd be stuck relying on Boyette, overloaded at guard, plus they'd only one have lottery pick. You must have made the assumption that Coates would be good to go for Chicago this season.


You're 100% right....but after the fact.Everyone thought Boyette would have a break out season.And chicago had not yet drafted Coates.Every poster on rebkell thought dallas was going to take Coates or Jones with one of their two first round picks......and i'd still take Sims > Pondexter

Shades wrote:
Cooper listened to you and it may have cost him his job. Wink


Unfortunately Cooper acquired a player that was having a terrible season,and played her limited minutes on top of it.

Shades wrote:
Zune, every time a team loses a game (and I mean EVERY time) you're coming up with trades on the heels of that loss to fix their problems. Never mind that somebody could have just had a bad game or whatever, or there may be a good player out on a season ending injury. This isn't fantasy sports where you swap players weekly and your problems are solved. There's concepts in real life sports such as chemistry and continuity that seem foreign to you.


I was strongly against the Edd/Meesseman combination from the jump.A Dolson/Delle donne frontcourt always made more sense.My Meesseman trade proposals is just me beating the dead horse.....I will continue to beat the dead horse until the problem gets rectified.

For 5 years I beat the dead horse about the sparks playing a big lineup.Agler fix the situation,sparks win the champion,I'm happy.


ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 8420



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/15/17 12:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There are also other factors in trades that can't be seen from the outside. Some players bring more to the table than games show, and some bring less. For example, a very good player who doesn't work hard in practice will make it hard to get everyone to work hard, so maybe a coach is more willing to trade her.

Or a player and coach just don't get along, or a player and the star work well together.

Lots of variables ...



_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
Aladyyn



Joined: 23 Jul 2017
Posts: 488
Location: Czech Republic


Back to top
PostPosted: 09/15/17 1:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Shades wrote:
Wouldn't you be? Sims as a PG isn't really her strong suit and NYL already have enough combo guards that are on the short side. There was the notion that Sims may be washed up after that 2016 season. Even you were trying to trade her to every team. I know your plan was to get a post for Sims, but what Dallas ended up doing is getting a younger bigger guard who wouldn't step on Diggins' toes.


Ny still needs a guard that can break down the defense,get to the rim,and defend.Sims can do all three......I don't believe dallas would have drafted Akhator without having the #4 pick in their back pocket....at least I hope not.Dallas imo had their eyes set on Coates.But once chicago made their pick,they Panicked,and selected Ahkator higher than she was projected to go.

Shades wrote:
It takes two to trade, so why would Chicago make this trade? They'd be stuck relying on Boyette, overloaded at guard, plus they'd only one have lottery pick. You must have made the assumption that Coates would be good to go for Chicago this season.


You're 100% right....but after the fact.Everyone thought Boyette would have a break out season.And chicago had not yet drafted Coates.Every poster on rebkell thought dallas was going to take Coates or Jones with one of their two first round picks......and i'd still take Sims > Pondexter

Shades wrote:
Cooper listened to you and it may have cost him his job. Wink


Unfortunately Cooper acquired a player that was having a terrible season,and played her limited minutes on top of it.

Shades wrote:
Zune, every time a team loses a game (and I mean EVERY time) you're coming up with trades on the heels of that loss to fix their problems. Never mind that somebody could have just had a bad game or whatever, or there may be a good player out on a season ending injury. This isn't fantasy sports where you swap players weekly and your problems are solved. There's concepts in real life sports such as chemistry and continuity that seem foreign to you.


I was strongly against the Edd/Meesseman combination from the jump.A Dolson/Delle donne frontcourt always made more sense.My Meesseman trade proposals is just me beating the dead horse.....I will continue to beat the dead horse until the problem gets rectified.

For 5 years I beat the dead horse about the sparks playing a big lineup.Agler fix the situation,sparks win the champion,I'm happy.


Save your breath. Emma is not getting traded. Period.

But hey, Thibault was not willing to trade her for EDD but that DeWanna Bonner, she's definitely worth it! Laughing


Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 1955
Location: New York City


Back to top
PostPosted: 09/15/17 1:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
There are also other factors in trades that can't be seen from the outside. Some players bring more to the table than games show, and some bring less. For example, a very good player who doesn't work hard in practice will make it hard to get everyone to work hard, so maybe a coach is more willing to trade her.

Or a player and coach just don't get along, or a player and the star work well together.

Lots of variables ...


Yes. Exactly right. And many or all the same issues apply to signing or not signing free agents and to drafting or not drafting players.

It's the same issue for me as when fans issue definitive pronouncements about what a player "is like" personally based on perceptions from afar or very limited interactions with the player.



_________________
Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.
pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 54945
Location: Where the action is


Back to top
PostPosted: 09/15/17 1:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
zune69 wrote:
When you have a void,fill it...when you have excess at one position but a need at another,trade the excess to fill the void....These wnba GM/HC are so freaking stupid.


Cooper listened to you and it may have cost him his job. Wink


The Dream didn't have an excess of first round picks.



_________________
Happiness depends, as Nature shows,
Less on exterior things than most suppose
zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 5967



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/15/17 1:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Shades wrote:
zune69 wrote:
When you have a void,fill it...when you have excess at one position but a need at another,trade the excess to fill the void....These wnba GM/HC are so freaking stupid.


Cooper listened to you and it may have cost him his job. Wink


The Dream didn't have an excess of first round picks.


Yeah..filling a void by trading away excess was my original point.


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 44364



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/15/17 1:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
I was strongly against the Edd/Meesseman combination from the jump.A Dolson/Delle donne frontcourt always made more sense.


Hey, so was I. Meesseman and Delle Donne are very similar except that Delle Donne is very good at getting to the FT line more than she deserves. Both low assists forwards. Not sure where they're at this season. But Meesseman is Thibault's pride and joy.... the one draft pick he knocked out if the park. It's hard to see him wanting to trade her, and even harder to see her wanting to get traded, which can be important to foreign players who aren't as indebted to the WNBA.

zune69 wrote:
For 5 years I beat the dead horse about the sparks playing a big lineup.Agler fix the situation,sparks win the champion,I'm happy.


It was you who helped the Sparks to a championship? I thought it was Miller. There was an article that went over how Miller's half a year with Parker helped her become a better facilitator much like he helped Thomas in Connecticut. OKAY! I'm really buying that one. Razz Thomas even said she's doing the same things she did in college.



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
Aladyyn



Joined: 23 Jul 2017
Posts: 488
Location: Czech Republic


Back to top
PostPosted: 09/15/17 1:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
zune69 wrote:
I was strongly against the Edd/Meesseman combination from the jump.A Dolson/Delle donne frontcourt always made more sense.


Hey, so was I. Meesseman and Delle Donne are very similar except that Delle Donne is very good at getting to the FT line more than she deserves. Both low assists forwards. Not sure where they're at this season. But Meesseman is Thibault's pride and joy.... the one draft pick he knocked out if the park. It's hard to see him wanting to trade her, and even harder to see her wanting to get traded, which can be important to foreign players who aren't as indebted to the WNBA.


Forwards with more APG than Meesseman in 2017:
Alyssa Thomas
Candace Parker
Maya Moore


zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 5967



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/15/17 1:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
It was you who helped the Sparks to a championship? I thought it was Miller. There was an article that went over how Miller's half a year with Parker helped her become a better facilitator much like he helped Thomas in Connecticut. OKAY! I'm really buying that one. Razz Thomas even said she's doing the same things she did in college.


Miller also thought Akhator was a legit 1st rd pick Laughing Laughing .....but so did I... Embarassed Embarassed


Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 44364



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/15/17 2:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Aladyyn wrote:
Shades wrote:
zune69 wrote:
I was strongly against the Edd/Meesseman combination from the jump.A Dolson/Delle donne frontcourt always made more sense.


Hey, so was I. Meesseman and Delle Donne are very similar except that Delle Donne is very good at getting to the FT line more than she deserves. Both low assists forwards. Not sure where they're at this season. But Meesseman is Thibault's pride and joy.... the one draft pick he knocked out if the park. It's hard to see him wanting to trade her, and even harder to see her wanting to get traded, which can be important to foreign players who aren't as indebted to the WNBA.


Forwards with more APG than Meesseman in 2017:
Alyssa Thomas
Candace Parker
Maya Moore


This year Meesseman has improved her assist rate and Delle Donne has fallen off ever so slightly.

Also, these two haven't played all that many games together. Meesseman missed games early on for Eurobasket and Delle Donne missed games late in the season with injuries (like clockwork). Zune wants to hit the panic button (surprise), but at this point I'm preaching continuity and building up the depth.



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 1955
Location: New York City


Back to top
PostPosted: 09/15/17 3:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Aladyyn wrote:
Shades wrote:
zune69 wrote:
I was strongly against the Edd/Meesseman combination from the jump.A Dolson/Delle donne frontcourt always made more sense.


Hey, so was I. Meesseman and Delle Donne are very similar except that Delle Donne is very good at getting to the FT line more than she deserves. Both low assists forwards. Not sure where they're at this season. But Meesseman is Thibault's pride and joy.... the one draft pick he knocked out if the park. It's hard to see him wanting to trade her, and even harder to see her wanting to get traded, which can be important to foreign players who aren't as indebted to the WNBA.


Forwards with more APG than Meesseman in 2017:
Alyssa Thomas
Candace Parker
Maya Moore


This year Meesseman has improved her assist rate and Delle Donne has fallen off ever so slightly.

Also, these two haven't played all that many games together. Meesseman missed games early on for Eurobasket and Delle Donne missed games late in the season with injuries (like clockwork). Zune wants to hit the panic button (surprise), but at this point I'm preaching continuity and building up the depth.


I'm not a Mystics fan. They just eliminated my team! But I believe it's way too soon to conclude that Delle Donne and Meeseman can't play together. Moreover, it's often the case that when you trade a player as good as Meeseman you have to settle for lesser value.



_________________
Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.
J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 4042



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/15/17 3:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The boring yet realistic assessment of what NY 2018 will look like

Hartley/Boyd/L. Allen
Prince/Rodgers
Zellous/Raincock-Ekunwe/(#10) Nurse, Nared or Atkins
Chalres/Vaughn
Swords/Stokes

NRE gets minutes at the 3 and 4, draft someone who can play SF at #10, pick up Swords as an UFA. Mix and match Stokes and Vaughn at center and PF.


toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 14569



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/15/17 3:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm thinking Vaughn is gone. Don't think Laimbeer was happy with her this season. I still like a trade involving Vaughn & Rodgers to get either a higher pick or a SF. And bringing back Swords should be a priority, too.



_________________
LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY
zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 5967



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/15/17 3:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:

Also, these two haven't played all that many games together. Meesseman missed games early on for Eurobasket and Delle Donne missed games late in the season with injuries (like clockwork). Zune wants to hit the panic button (surprise), but at this point I'm preaching continuity and building up the depth.


I havn't always been right(Akhator,N.Johnson,etc),,but I think I'm batting better than .500 when it comes to my predictions.This season alone I was right on:

Diggins having a better season without Sims.
Sims being a better player in LA
Griner having a Breakout season
Seattle being overrated
Connecticut not going far in the playoffs
Zahui B taking a step back

I havn't done too bad in the prediction department.

I was also wrong about how good Connecticut would be.

But at least I'm willing to admit when I'm wrong,unlike like some people on this board.




Last edited by zune69 on 09/15/17 6:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 8420



Back to top
PostPosted: 09/15/17 3:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
ClayK wrote:
There are also other factors in trades that can't be seen from the outside. Some players bring more to the table than games show, and some bring less. For example, a very good player who doesn't work hard in practice will make it hard to get everyone to work hard, so maybe a coach is more willing to trade her.

Or a player and coach just don't get along, or a player and the star work well together.

Lots of variables ...


Yes. Exactly right. And many or all the same issues apply to signing or not signing free agents and to drafting or not drafting players.

It's the same issue for me as when fans issue definitive pronouncements about what a player "is like" personally based on perceptions from afar or very limited interactions with the player.


So true ...

Sportswriters also get a very crafted version of a person, especially older, intelligent players. The interactions are brief and structured.

Even a long-form piece based on a couple interviews doesn't necessarily tell the writer or reader that much. It's not that hard to put on a show for a couple hours.

I would maintain, though, that a great way to really know what a player (or anyone) is like is to play competitive pickup basketball with them a few times. It's pretty hard to hide in that situation.

To sum up: There's a physical side to every team/group, and there's a psychological side, and both are important to maximize the chances of success.



_________________
Oṃ Tāre Tuttāre Ture Svāhā
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6  Next
Page 2 of 6

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin