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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 57588
Location: Where the action is


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PostPosted: 07/10/18 6:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
pilight wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Damn....some people want to fire K.Smith halfway through her first season Laughing... Let Katie get 2 or 3 lottery picks like most of the other Head Coaches before you give her a pink slip.


She's got four lottery picks on the roster now...


Lottery picks that were drafted by other teams...

By your count,the liberty have 4 lottery picks....How many lottery picks do the other 11 WNBA teams have?


6 Seattle
5 Connecticut
4 Chicago
4 Dallas
4 Las Vegas
4 Los Angeles
4 Minnesota
4 New York
4 Phoenix
4 Washington
3 Atlanta
3 Indiana



_________________
Make lots of noise
Kiss lots of boys
Or kiss lots of girls
If that's something you're into
When the straight and narrow
Gets a little too straight
Roll up a joint, or don't
Just follow your arrow
Wherever it points, yeah
Follow your arrow
Wherever it points
zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 7169



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PostPosted: 07/10/18 6:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
zune69 wrote:
pilight wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Damn....some people want to fire K.Smith halfway through her first season Laughing... Let Katie get 2 or 3 lottery picks like most of the other Head Coaches before you give her a pink slip.


She's got four lottery picks on the roster now...


Lottery picks that were drafted by other teams...

By your count,the liberty have 4 lottery picks....How many lottery picks do the other 11 WNBA teams have?


6 Seattle
5 Connecticut
4 Chicago
4 Dallas
4 Las Vegas
4 Los Angeles
4 Minnesota
4 New York
4 Phoenix
4 Washington
3 Atlanta
3 Indiana


Coleman(Wash) was a lottery pick bust.
Zahui b(Dal) was a lottery bust-But has the potential to be a solid bench player.
E.Prince(Chi) was a lottery pick in a weak draft and is 70% of what she used to be...Prince has been battling injuries for the last 3-4 seasons.

Lets give Katie 2 or 3 years before we kick her to the curb.


J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
Posts: 4726



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PostPosted: 07/10/18 10:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't know if we can just waive vets, so I would seriously look to trade any vet in the last hear of their contract for lowball future consideration simply to free up a roster spot to give some other players a shot with 7 day audition for the future contracts.

I have nothing against any of these players but we no longer need all of Prince, Rodgers, Zellous, Hartley and Coleman, if we are a sinking ship either way. Lets tighten up the rotation with a heavy emphasis on Buyd and Nurse, and get some hungry young players to come re-invigorate the team.

I would think that most of our vets wouldn't mind being traded for a 2nd or 3rd round pick if it meant going somewhere competitive.

And nothing personal but it might simply be time to waive R. Allen if none of those trades exist, we need to shake things up a little bit. Or Start her, give her one game of 30 minutes to show what she can do.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 12415



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 9:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Damn....some people want to fire K.Smith halfway through her first season Laughing... Let Katie get 2 or 3 lottery picks like most of the other Head Coaches before you give her a pink slip.


Haven’t seen anyone say they want her gone who posts here regularly. However, I think you’re deluding yourself if you’re not calling into question certain aspects of her performance.



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Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 2428
Location: New York City


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PostPosted: 07/11/18 5:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Damn....some people want to fire K.Smith halfway through her first season Laughing... Let Katie get 2 or 3 lottery picks like most of the other Head Coaches before you give her a pink slip.


Haven’t seen anyone say they want her gone who posts here regularly. However, I think you’re deluding yourself if you’re not calling into question certain aspects of her performance.


Thank you, NYL_WNBA_FAN. Correct on both counts.

It's always so much fun to exaggerate or distort what people have said and then trash them--even laugh at them--for things they never said.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 12415



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 6:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thanks. And I’ll also give credit where’s it due. Katie’s subs were on point today matchup-wise. 3 guards vs. 3 guards at one point down the stretch. The Boyd sub out of the timeout down 76-73 with the drive, draw and dish for the Piph 3 was a thing of beauty. Pulling Boyd after the two late turnovers was also the right move.

Exchanges of Vaughn and Zahui throughout the game were also really good. Inserting Stokes down 5 with 3 and change left probably was the key to them winning. All the plays out of timeouts were well designed. I thought she coached a magnificent game.

And I think most Libs posters are reasonable. Nobody on the team is a scapegoat just because they’re not liked (not always the case on this board in the past). I question parts of Sugar’s game even though she’s one of my absolute favorites personally. Her story is a great one, and she has a rep for hard work. If I had a daughter, I’d love for her to have the perseverance and resilience of Sugar. I just also want to win. In pro ball, that’s where it’s at.

As for Katie or any coach, I don’t think anyone here wants perfection. I know I sure don’t. I think you just want the coach to give you the best possible chance to win with the personnel you’ve got. Katie did that today. That’s a trend I tend to think will continue. If it does, the team will be better for it moving forward.



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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 57588
Location: Where the action is


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PostPosted: 07/11/18 6:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
As for Katie or any coach, I don’t think anyone here wants perfection. I know I sure don’t.


Most people want perfection, but they don't expect it.



_________________
Make lots of noise
Kiss lots of boys
Or kiss lots of girls
If that's something you're into
When the straight and narrow
Gets a little too straight
Roll up a joint, or don't
Just follow your arrow
Wherever it points, yeah
Follow your arrow
Wherever it points
toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 17699



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 7:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Smith can get the Liberty to play consistent D and work out her rotations, she might be ok. But this was really the first game was saw solid D from New York and the substitutions actually made sense. Maybe Smith has figured stuff out?



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zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 7169



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 7:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Damn....some people want to fire K.Smith halfway through her first season Laughing... Let Katie get 2 or 3 lottery picks like most of the other Head Coaches before you give her a pink slip.


Haven’t seen anyone say they want her gone who posts here regularly. However, I think you’re deluding yourself if you’re not calling into question certain aspects of her performance.


In Liberty game thread...

jmvcity wrote:
Should Herb Williams take over?

Maybe management has already given up on the season and will just let her finish this stint. Do they care about hanging a dark cloud on her HOF enshrinement just weeks away.?


snlMINAJ wrote:
i think the change that needs to be made is the coach.
the 'fans' can't be the only ones baffled by the PT of players...


if they're not releasing statements re: kia nurse and kiah stokes - then its purely coach decision to play them very and increasingly sparingly.... and as others have said - its not like they're being benched in favor of other players playing lights out.


katie has got to go, its horrible.


Plus another 3-4 post debating whether the Liberty should hire Weatherspoon.

And who said I have no problems with some of the moves made by Katie?...I was concerned about Nurse’s playing time before Rodgers/Prince were even cleared to play

zune69 wrote:
I hope Nurse continues to play 25-30 mpg...Even when Rodgers,Prince,and Boyd make their return.


Yes,I question a lot of Katie's decisions:

1.Starting Hartley over Boyd...Hartley is a combo guard,and should be coming off the bench...Boyd has greater upside as a PG.

2.Starting Vaughn...Kia is a bench player.

3.Limiting Stokes' minutes...Kiah is an elite level defender if given the opportunity.

4.Decreasing Nurse's minutes...Kia should be playing 24-30 mpg.

5.Cutting Russell & Allen.

All I'm saying is let's give K.Smith an opportunity to improve as a Head Coach,draft 1 or 2 lottery picks,acquire talent thru trade & FA,and develop some young players.

Bob Lamm wrote:

Thank you, NYL_WNBA_FAN. Correct on both counts.

It's always so much fun to exaggerate or distort what people have said and then trash them--even laugh at them--for things they never said.


Get out of your feelings….What I said was fact..the receipts are posted.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 12415



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 7:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Damn....some people want to fire K.Smith halfway through her first season Laughing... Let Katie get 2 or 3 lottery picks like most of the other Head Coaches before you give her a pink slip.


Haven’t seen anyone say they want her gone who posts here regularly. However, I think you’re deluding yourself if you’re not calling into question certain aspects of her performance.


In Liberty game thread...

jmvcity wrote:
Should Herb Williams take over?

Maybe management has already given up on the season and will just let her finish this stint. Do they care about hanging a dark cloud on her HOF enshrinement just weeks away.?


snlMINAJ wrote:
i think the change that needs to be made is the coach.
the 'fans' can't be the only ones baffled by the PT of players...


if they're not releasing statements re: kia nurse and kiah stokes - then its purely coach decision to play them very and increasingly sparingly.... and as others have said - its not like they're being benched in favor of other players playing lights out.


katie has got to go, its horrible.


Plus another 3-4 post debating whether the Liberty should hire Weatherspoon.

And who said I have no problems with some of the moves made by Katie?...I was concerned about Nurse’s playing time before Rodgers/Prince were even cleared to play

zune69 wrote:
I hope Nurse continues to play 25-30 mpg...Even when Rodgers,Prince,and Boyd make their return.


Yes,I question a lot of Katie's decisions:

1.Starting Hartley over Boyd...Hartley is a combo guard,and should be coming off the bench...Boyd has greater upside as a PG.

2.Starting Vaughn...Kia is a bench player.

3.Limiting Stokes' minutes...Kiah is an elite level defender if given the opportunity.

4.Decreasing Nurse's minutes...Kia should be playing 24-30 mpg.

5.Cutting Russell & Allen.

All I'm saying is let's give K.Smith an opportunity to improve as a Head Coach,draft 1 or 2 lottery picks,acquire talent thru trade & FA,and develop some young players.

Bob Lamm wrote:

Thank you, NYL_WNBA_FAN. Correct on both counts.

It's always so much fun to exaggerate or distort what people have said and then trash them--even laugh at them--for things they never said.


Get out of your feelings….What I said was fact..the receipts are posted.


I saw those posts. I said “who posts here regularly” specifically because those two people DON’T post here regularly. Two posts out of thousands of Liberty fan posts isn’t exactly a sample size indicating that she’s wanted on the chopping block.

Were you in here in ‘07 and ‘08 when people wanted Patty Coyle fired on a regular basis? In spite of her success with two pretty modestly talented teams?

Let me tell you. This is nothing. Laughing

And, uh, if you’re questioning so many of Katie’s decisions yourself, why would you question someone thinking she should go? I get you think she should stay. So do I. But with all your critiques, you still find it shocking that people might think otherwise? That makes no sense.



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The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.


Last edited by NYL_WNBA_FAN on 07/11/18 7:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 7169



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 7:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:


I saw those posts. I said “who posts here regularly” specifically because those two people DON’T post here regularly. Two posts out of thousands of Liberty fan posts isn’t exactly a sample size indicating that she’s wanted on the chopping block.


I said "some people want to fire K.Smith"

And how do you know the opinions of thousands of Liberty fans?.....The Liberty can barely get 2000 fans to show up to their home games.

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:

And, uh, if you’re questioning so many of Katie’s decisions yourself, why would you question someone thinking she should go? That makes no sense.


1.She's a rookie head coach.

2.The Liberty made no moves during the offseason.

3.The Liberty have 1 star player while most teams have 2 or 3.




Last edited by zune69 on 07/11/18 7:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
NYL_WNBA_FAN



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 12415



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 7:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:


I saw those posts. I said “who posts here regularly” specifically because those two people DON’T post here regularly. Two posts out of thousands of Liberty fan posts isn’t exactly a sample size indicating that she’s wanted on the chopping block.


I said "some people want to fire K.Smith"

And how do you know the opinions of thousands of Liberty fans?.....The Liberty can barely get 2000 fans to show up to their home games.


Thousands of Liberty fan “posts” means thousands of posts. Not thousands of fans. I didn’t question you saying “some” fans want Katie Smith fired, since 2 is “some”. I just made the point that nobody who posts here on the reg wants her out. You questioned it. That’s it.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 12415



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 7:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My point was how you gonna critique her so much but then question why someone else should want her out, even if you don’t want her out yourself? At that point it seems kind of like you’re mocking the group that posts here based on the singular posts of two people. Who rarely post to begin with. That’s all I’m saying.



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zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 7169



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 7:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:

Thousands of Liberty fan “posts” means thousands of posts. Not thousands of fans. I didn’t question you saying “some” fans want Katie Smith fired, since 2 is “some”. I just made the point that nobody who posts here on the reg wants her out. You questioned it. That’s it.


Spoon's name was also being thrown around....So it wasn't just 2 two posters.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 12415



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 7:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
As for Katie or any coach, I don’t think anyone here wants perfection. I know I sure don’t.


Most people want perfection, but they don't expect it.


That’s true. Some more than others bro...some more than others.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 7:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:

Thousands of Liberty fan “posts” means thousands of posts. Not thousands of fans. I didn’t question you saying “some” fans want Katie Smith fired, since 2 is “some”. I just made the point that nobody who posts here on the reg wants her out. You questioned it. That’s it.


Spoon's name was also being thrown around....So it wasn't just 2 two posters.


At no point was Spoon’s name thrown about by anyone who thinks Katie should be fired. I was the one who brought her up. My point was Spoon would at least maintain continuity but I’d rather Katie stay. I thought I made that pretty clear. But if it wasn’t, yes I would rather have Katie than Spoon. I like Spoon in her current role. However, IF a change were to be made, Spoon is the only one I want. I don’t want an outsider. Creates instability.



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zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
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PostPosted: 07/11/18 8:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
zune69 wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:

Thousands of Liberty fan “posts” means thousands of posts. Not thousands of fans. I didn’t question you saying “some” fans want Katie Smith fired, since 2 is “some”. I just made the point that nobody who posts here on the reg wants her out. You questioned it. That’s it.


Spoon's name was also being thrown around....So it wasn't just 2 two posters.


At no point was Spoon’s name thrown about by anyone who thinks Katie should be fired. I was the one who brought her up. My point was Spoon would at least maintain continuity but I’d rather Katie stay. I thought I made that pretty clear.


You still made the comment that you would consider Weatherspoon.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



Joined: 28 May 2007
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PostPosted: 07/11/18 8:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Okay. Fair enough. And I didn’t word it that well in terms of clarity, looking back. However, I did also say I wanted her to get another year. And I certainly didn’t say I wanted her fired.



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zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
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PostPosted: 07/11/18 8:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

@NYL_WNBA_FAN

My original post(some people want K.Smith fired) wasn't about you...I didn't realize you made the post about Weatherspoon until you attached your name to the comment.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



Joined: 28 May 2007
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PostPosted: 07/11/18 8:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Point taken. Understood. Fair enough. My comment wasn’t loaded with clarity either, looking back on it.



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WNBA 09



Joined: 26 Jun 2009
Posts: 7589
Location: Dallas , Texas


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PostPosted: 07/11/18 9:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:


I saw those posts. I said “who posts here regularly” specifically because those two people DON’T post here regularly. Two posts out of thousands of Liberty fan posts isn’t exactly a sample size indicating that she’s wanted on the chopping block.


I said "some people want to fire K.Smith"

And how do you know the opinions of thousands of Liberty fans?.....The Liberty can barely get 2000 fans to show up to their home games.

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:

And, uh, if you’re questioning so many of Katie’s decisions yourself, why would you question someone thinking she should go? That makes no sense.


1.She's a rookie head coach.

2.The Liberty made no moves during the offseason.

3.The Liberty have 1 star player while most teams have 2 or 3.


Go to your room and lock the door ! Laughing Laughing



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J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: 07/12/18 12:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It does feel like it might be time to start Boyd, or at least give her starting level minutes closer to 25-30 a night.

I still think she needs to score a little more, if she could get from 4-5 up to 7-8 a game, combined with her assists and defense she could become one of the top PGs in the league. OTOH if her offense limits her ability to be on the floor (hence not being on the floor in the last few offensive possessions of the Sun game) we need to see that now. We've been waiting for Boyd to become the regular starting PG of the Liberty. It feels like now is the time to make move.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
Posts: 57588
Location: Where the action is


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PostPosted: 07/13/18 8:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
pilight wrote:
zune69 wrote:
pilight wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Damn....some people want to fire K.Smith halfway through her first season Laughing... Let Katie get 2 or 3 lottery picks like most of the other Head Coaches before you give her a pink slip.


She's got four lottery picks on the roster now...


Lottery picks that were drafted by other teams...

By your count,the liberty have 4 lottery picks....How many lottery picks do the other 11 WNBA teams have?


6 Seattle
5 Connecticut
4 Chicago
4 Dallas
4 Las Vegas
4 Los Angeles
4 Minnesota
4 New York
4 Phoenix
4 Washington
3 Atlanta
3 Indiana


Coleman(Wash) was a lottery pick bust.
Zahui b(Dal) was a lottery bust-But has the potential to be a solid bench player.
E.Prince(Chi) was a lottery pick in a weak draft and is 70% of what she used to be...Prince has been battling injuries for the last 3-4 seasons.

Lets give Katie 2 or 3 years before we kick her to the curb.


I agree Smith should get more time. Let's not put all the failure on the roster, however. It's essentially the same as the one that went 22-12 a year ago plus Boyd and Nurse.



_________________
Make lots of noise
Kiss lots of boys
Or kiss lots of girls
If that's something you're into
When the straight and narrow
Gets a little too straight
Roll up a joint, or don't
Just follow your arrow
Wherever it points, yeah
Follow your arrow
Wherever it points
5thmantheme



Joined: 11 Apr 2016
Posts: 400



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PostPosted: 07/13/18 2:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<snip>
pilight wrote:
It's essentially the same as the one that went 22-12 a year ago plus Boyd and Nurse.


This and the 10 game winning streak.

Prince and Stokes need to be at 100%.

Hartley and Zealous are improved.
Coleman got her groove back.
Zahui's had her best season.

Might get a tasty junior biscuit next year for the effort too.


NYSports56



Joined: 03 Jul 2018
Posts: 90
Location: New Jersey, USA


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PostPosted: 07/13/18 9:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hi 5thmantheme, love your optimism, but I'm not sure I agree, or at the very least I think you are overrating the importance of some of this.

5thmantheme wrote:
Prince and Stokes need to be at 100%.

How do we know they're not 100% now? Prince seems to me to be the same player she's always been for the Liberty. And sadly, a 100% healthy Stokes has been the exception rather than the rule since her rookie season. With the exception of a few teases, Kiah hasn't been an offensive factor since she injured her hip. I worry that the hip might be a permanent lingering thing. At any rate, it's either the hip or the foot. Or both. Or something else we don't know about. Smile

5thmantheme wrote:
Hartley and Zealous are improved.

I agree Hartley has improved, but only slightly. Zellous appears to me to be the exact same player she was last year.

5thmantheme wrote:
Coleman got her groove back.

I think it was far too small of a sample base to be convinced of this. And exactly how good is she with her groove (this is a serious question; I am relatively ignorant about her history before the Liberty)?

5thmantheme wrote:
Zahui's had her best season.

I agree; she can now be considered a true bench player.

5thmantheme wrote:
Might get a tasty junior biscuit next year for the effort too.

No doubt about this, and unfortunately, I think that's the silveriest lining this cloud has.


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