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myrtle



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PostPosted: 06/18/18 10:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It looks slightly bigger than our local HS gym....in a town of less than 2500.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 06/18/18 11:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If you're following the European model -- i.e., minimal dependence on box office revenue -- that's what arenas look like. However, in this country, can you look that low budget and still drum up enough sponsorship and TV interest to make it work?



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PostPosted: 06/18/18 12:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As a league pass viewer, I enjoy Liberty games at WCC the same as MSG. Maybe the lighting is slightly better at MSG, but it’s negligible.



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PostPosted: 06/18/18 12:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
If you're following the European model -- i.e., minimal dependence on box office revenue -- that's what arenas look like. However, in this country, can you look that low budget and still drum up enough sponsorship and TV interest to make it work?


Here's a theory as to how MSG might actually try to hold onto the Liberty. They roll the Liberty and g-Knicks into one profit center, sell sponsorship and maybe even ticket packages that roll the two teams together, while combining the overhead - support staff, ticket sales, team docs, marketing, etc into one. If the combined entities make money they are geniuses. If the lose money - its a cost of doing business in the NBA to have g-league team, and combining with the Liberty helps defray some of the operating costs. This may placate any annoying board members or shareholders who thought Liberty were a loser and no one will really know the profit and loss for the Liberty on their own anyway.

Just rampant speculation on my part, but it would allow the Liberty to stay in the hands of HLJ and IT if that can't sell it for enough or if they really want to keep it.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 06/18/18 1:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
root_thing wrote:
If you're following the European model -- i.e., minimal dependence on box office revenue -- that's what arenas look like. However, in this country, can you look that low budget and still drum up enough sponsorship and TV interest to make it work?


Here's a theory as to how MSG might actually try to hold onto the Liberty. They roll the Liberty and g-Knicks into one profit center, sell sponsorship and maybe even ticket packages that roll the two teams together, while combining the overhead - support staff, ticket sales, team docs, marketing, etc into one. If the combined entities make money they are geniuses. If the lose money - its a cost of doing business in the NBA to have g-league team, and combining with the Liberty helps defray some of the operating costs. This may placate any annoying board members or shareholders who thought Liberty were a loser and no one will really know the profit and loss for the Liberty on their own anyway.

Just rampant speculation on my part, but it would allow the Liberty to stay in the hands of HLJ and IT if that can't sell it for enough or if they really want to keep it.


To a large extent, the two operations were already combined. In fact, the sales reps were MSG people who sold tickets for the Rangers as well as Knicks and Liberty. Most of the MSG sponsorships benefited all teams. The Liberty still share training facilities with the Knicks. All of this was done functionally even while the financial reporting was split. I even recall attempts to package Liberty tickets with Knicks and Rangers tickets. I remember it pissed people off because the default was to take the Liberty offer, so fans had to uncheck a box or otherwise indicate they didn't want Liberty tickets. On a side note, we've heard no-nothing male fans complain that NBA support for the WNBA hurts male players in the D-League (before it became the G-League). Just ignorant crap, but combining the Liberty with the Knicks would probably exacerbate that misconception. I also think it's too late to fool institutional shareholders who have been following MSG for a long time. Smile



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PostPosted: 06/18/18 1:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
As a league pass viewer, I enjoy Liberty games at WCC the same as MSG. Maybe the lighting is slightly better at MSG, but it’s negligible.


I meant ESPN, Twitter or anyone else who wants to distribute WNBA games. It's doubtful this is significantly profitable for them. Broadcasters and sponsors are likely hanging on based on hopes of better days ahead. However, if the league looks too conspicuously like a small time operation or appears to be going backward, how long will other businesses want to associate with the WNBA?



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PostPosted: 06/18/18 5:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Quote:
W.N.B.A. President Lisa Borders said the league had been pleased with the fan response to the Liberty’s move.

“This move to a smaller venue has created an intimate and exciting environment for the passionate fan base,” she said. “Madison Square Garden, one of the world’s most coveted — and arguably most expensive — venues at which to hold games and events, was no longer an ideal location to play a full season of Liberty games given the economics.”


Such BS by Borders.


What is the BS part?


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PostPosted: 06/18/18 6:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

“Exciting”



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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/18/18 6:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And the passionate fan base isn't showing up. Read the article. The commute is just too much. Be interesting to see how they draw on a Saturday or Sunday.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 06/18/18 6:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The next step to creating an "intimate" atmosphere for the Liberty will be moving 2019 home games to the courts on West 4th Street. Lisa Borders will then be able to claim, with absolutely no b.s., that the Liberty will have the most intimate atmosphere for any professional sports team on our planet.



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PostPosted: 06/18/18 6:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Laughing

Don’t give them ideas. They might move the home games to Rucker. It probably seats more than the County Center if you bring in more bleachers. Or Dyckman for that matter. Wink



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 06/18/18 7:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I do West 4th already while waiting for movies to start across the street at IFC. The Liberty and a movie -- cool doubleheader! Very Happy Cool



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PostPosted: 06/18/18 8:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

just move the team to Arthur Ashe stadium and have them play outdoors for the summer. I'm sure that'll go over well. And most of August until mid-September the Liberty would be a road team for a month.



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PostPosted: 06/18/18 8:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
I do West 4th already while waiting for movies to start across the street at IFC. The Liberty and a movie -- cool doubleheader! Very Happy Cool


I’d come down and hang for those games on a Saturday or Sunday. Let me know when you go if you want and I’ll come down.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 06/18/18 8:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It still boggles my mind that the biggest city in the world doesn't have an arena in-between gigantic 25000 seat monster and 2000-seat gym built in the 1930's.



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PostPosted: 06/18/18 10:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm really happy that my idea of the Liberty playing on the West 4th Street courts is catching on. Is it too late to move this season's Westchester County Center games?

I won't even demand that Lisa Borders give me the credit when she announces that the New York Liberty will have the most "intimate" venue of any professional sports team anywhere.

And let's not forget: there will be a dramatic change in the fan experience while watching the Liberty play on West 4th Street. No more complaints about referees at home games. Players call fouls themselves.



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PostPosted: 06/19/18 4:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And players don't run hard both ways, especially on defense. Can't complain about coaching when player effort is optional... or when there's no coach.



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PostPosted: 06/19/18 5:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/YID3H2GdTIw" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>


<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/tjYkJGpgW60" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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PostPosted: 06/19/18 5:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/KCn3DBAdoc4" frameborder="0" allow="autoplay; encrypted-media" allowfullscreen></iframe>


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PostPosted: 06/19/18 11:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
I'm really happy that my idea of the Liberty playing on the West 4th Street courts is catching on. Is it too late to move this season's Westchester County Center games?

I won't even demand that Lisa Borders give me the credit when she announces that the New York Liberty will have the most "intimate" venue of any professional sports team anywhere.

And let's not forget: there will be a dramatic change in the fan experience while watching the Liberty play on West 4th Street. No more complaints about referees at home games. Players call fouls themselves.


Players already do that now. In fact, they pretty much make all the calls - fouls, out of bounds, travelling, 3 seconds, etc.



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PostPosted: 06/19/18 11:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
It still boggles my mind that the biggest city in the world doesn't have an arena in-between gigantic 25000 seat monster and 2000-seat gym built in the 1930's.


Chungking seems to have a pretty wide range of arenas, but it seems a strange place for the Liberty to play. Same with Tokyo, if you prefer metro areas to city limits.


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PostPosted: 06/19/18 3:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I’d seriously prefer Radio City to this.



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PostPosted: 06/19/18 4:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
I’d seriously prefer Radio City to this.


Wouldn’t that have the same pricey or fully booked a problem?



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PostPosted: 06/19/18 4:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It’s possible. I don’t know the logistics other than they’ve played there before.



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PostPosted: 06/19/18 4:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I just looked at the events page. About 7-8 events there through 8/31.



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PostPosted: 06/20/18 8:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Beginning on Friday night, four games in seven days. At Las Vegas, at L.A., home vs. Phoenix, at Washington. This could sink the season. The Liberty will have to play a lot better than they did last night against a depleted Atlanta roster.



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PostPosted: 06/20/18 8:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Boyd's 11 assists last night was a Liberty record, beating T-Spoon's record of 10 assists in 2000.



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PostPosted: 06/20/18 8:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Boyd's 11 assists last night was a Liberty record, beating T-Spoon's record of 10 assists in 2000.


Thanks for sharing this. Kind of amazing that the team record over 20 years was only 10 assists in a game.

What's especially remarkable was that Boyd had those 11 assists in only 16 minutes, 10 seconds.



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PostPosted: 06/20/18 8:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Our PG situation hasn't been good since Hammon was traded.



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PostPosted: 06/20/18 10:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
I’d seriously prefer Radio City to this.


Then Im sure you have never been to a Liberty game at Radio City !

Other then being in Manhattan and easy to get to ... its NOT a place to
play basketball.

Just Ask Swin Cash whats it like to fall off the stage or the "court"!



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PostPosted: 06/23/18 6:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So it seems the Liberty will be a Lottery team...
what will that mean to their sale value ?



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PostPosted: 06/23/18 6:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

They likely get the #4 pick. Asia Durr? Samuelson? The #15 or #16 could also be useful(a post - Hallie Thome? Kristine Anigwe?). Vaughn & R. Allen go. Coleman can go, too. One of Prince or Rodgers can go(trade for a late first rounder?). Starters for 2019 could be Boyd-Nurse-#4 pick-Charles-Stokes.

PG: Boyd/Hartley
SG: Nurse/Rodgers or Prince/draft pick
SF: #4 pick/Zellous
PF: Charles/Zahui B/Raincock-Ekunwe
C: Stokes/#15 or #16 pick



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PostPosted: 06/23/18 9:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lib Fan wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
I’d seriously prefer Radio City to this.


Then Im sure you have never been to a Liberty game at Radio City !

Other then being in Manhattan and easy to get to ... its NOT a place to
play basketball.

Just Ask Swin Cash whats it like to fall off the stage or the "court"!


I have been there for Liberty games. I empathize with the player perspective and could understand them not wanting to play there. I didn't even like Radio City myself. It's just that it's a low bar at WCC. I'd imagine that is the case for players too.



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PostPosted: 06/24/18 1:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
They likely get the #4 pick. Asia Durr? Samuelson? The #15 or #16 could also be useful(a post - Hallie Thome? Kristine Anigwe?). Vaughn & R. Allen go. Coleman can go, too. One of Prince or Rodgers can go(trade for a late first rounder?). Starters for 2019 could be Boyd-Nurse-#4 pick-Charles-Stokes.

PG: Boyd/Hartley
SG: Nurse/Rodgers or Prince/draft pick
SF: #4 pick/Zellous
PF: Charles/Zahui B/Raincock-Ekunwe
C: Stokes/#15 or #16 pick


I am also curious how our contracts play out next year

Boyd, Zahui B and R. Allen will all be RFA

Nayo Raincock-Ekunwe will be reserved (But are we showing her a team she would want to come to?)

I have no idea how long their previous contracts were but

Rodgers, Zellous and Prince are all a couple years or more from their last sighing and could all be UFA IDK

Hartley re-signed this year so I would guess she got multiple years

Stokes signed an extension this off season so I'm sure she has a couple more years

Coleman and Vaughn both signed this year but I could see the team or the player only signing one year deals, the team not being sure how many years they are willing to commit to a mid level vet, or the player thinking they might have a good enough year to up their pay grade after this season. while it is not out of the question I doubt either are on max deals ATM.

Charles, this is an interesting one, she was cored, if she simply signed her core contract that is one year at max. I think she may have done that if she is uncertain about the teams future. If the team folds she becomes an UFA and most likely avoids the dispersal draft and can choose her next destination unless the CBA allows teams to select UFA in the dispersal draft and then core them. If the team relocates they could core her again but that is a better position for her to demand a trade if she is unhappy with the relocation than being straight up under contract. The team may have went along with this because if they stay in NY they can always re-sign her as she seems to want to be here, and they can still core her either way.

Nurse is on her rookie contract.

So it could be

Hartley/?
Nurse/?/?
Draft pick/?
Charles/?/?
Stokes/Draft pick


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PostPosted: 06/24/18 8:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

i think Boyd & Zahui B get an extension thanks to their improved play. Raincock-Ekunwe returns. Zellous is our best veteran guard. Coleman's likely as one year filler. One of Rodgers or Prince can go. Vaughn goes as long as we draft a post in the 2nd round.



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PostPosted: 06/24/18 1:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
i think Boyd & Zahui B get an extension thanks to their improved play. Raincock-Ekunwe returns. Zellous is our best veteran guard. Coleman's likely as one year filler. One of Rodgers or Prince can go. Vaughn goes as long as we draft a post in the 2nd round.


I miss Nayo Sad she definitely could of helped our rebounding with her athletic ability and speed


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PostPosted: 06/24/18 2:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I am not sold on Boyd or Zahui B yet.

Boyd looks amazing bringing the ball up and her passing and handle are the best on our team. But until she can hit a lay up, shoot close to 40 percent and score more than 4 PPG I don't think she a too valuable. If she gets her offense back by seasons end then yes she is our future starter but for now we still need Hartley at the 1 half the time to keep the opposing team defense on its toes.

Zahui has to do it every game for 20 minutes a night as opposed to every 3rd game 10 minutes a night before Im convinced. She did look for her shot last game and looked like a player.


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PostPosted: 06/24/18 4:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
I am not sold on Boyd or Zahui B yet.

Boyd looks amazing bringing the ball up and her passing and handle are the best on our team. But until she can hit a lay up, shoot close to 40 percent and score more than 4 PPG I don't think she a too valuable. If she gets her offense back by seasons end then yes she is our future starter but for now we still need Hartley at the 1 half the time to keep the opposing team defense on its toes.

Zahui has to do it every game for 20 minutes a night as opposed to every 3rd game 10 minutes a night before Im convinced. She did look for her shot last game and looked like a player.


Completely agree. Both have had some very encouraging moments this season. But there's no reason to be "sold" on either of them yet.

I'd give Boyd a lot of minutes to see what she can do and whether being on the court more will help her offense. I like Bria Hartley, but she's not a starting point guard (or a starting #2). She's a decent bench player. That's all. The team isn't going anywhere with Hartley.

A final question. How can Brittany Boyd miss SO many layups? I just don't get that.



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PostPosted: 06/24/18 6:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In a famous moment of New York basketball that some here will be too young to remember, Micheal (correct spelling) Ray Richardson said of his 1981-1982 New York Knicks team: "The ship be sinking!"

I hate to say this, but so is ours.



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PostPosted: 06/24/18 6:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

yep. we seriously look like the worst team in the league right now. How sad. I have to wonder if the Liberty are still in Westchester next season if Charles opts to go elsewhere?



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PostPosted: 06/25/18 1:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It was mostly well after the game was lost but Boyd and Zahui B really stepped up.

During the last two Aces game one thing that crossed my mind was how excited the Aces looked and how uninspired the Liberty looked. Players like Wilson, McBride, Young and even Hamby and Plum looked like they has something to prove while the Liberty players looked discouraged, maybe it is a product of the move to Westchester and the uncertainty.

So it was cool to see Boyd and Zahui attacking and looking like they were trying to prove something even in a humiliating loss. I think with how some of the vets are struggling why not fast forward the youth movement.

Next game I would love to see a starting line up and majority of minutes go to

Boyd, Hartley, Nurse, Charles and Zahui B

Boyd is starting to cook but you need the best offensive players on the floor with her and I think that line ATM is the strongest scorers at their positions.

Then let the vets come in off the bench and try and prove themselves, but if we're going to struggle I would rather give the players who are part of the future and playing with heart and energy more time to develop.

If Zahui B and Boyd can bring what they brought in garbage time 20 down to tip off we might have some hope yet.


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PostPosted: 06/25/18 5:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

And Zahui B shouldn't be starting at C. Neither Vaughn or Stokes can cover Tina at the 4. I'd like to see Zahui B play 10 minutes at PF & 10 at C.



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PostPosted: 06/25/18 10:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think that's always been one of Zahui B's problems in New York - neither Laimbeer nor Smith has been convinced that she can play extended minutes next to Charles (call whichever one you want the center in that scenario). And if you can't do that, you're inevitably restricted in how useful you can be on the Liberty.

She could at least have had the sort of season Izzy Harrison had last year if she was on a team that would give her the minutes and live with the negatives.



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PostPosted: 06/25/18 11:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:


If Zahui B and Boyd can bring what they brought in garbage time 20 down to tip off we might have some hope yet.


sometimes the reason players are effective off the bench is because they are playing other off-the-bench players...so it doesn't always translate into starter effectiveness. Boyd reminds me a bit of DRob when she came into the league. Really really quick, out of control, can't shoot for shit. Well, DRob at least was a really good FT shooter str8 out of college. Boyd had really good assist numbers in this game but I wasn't watching so don't know how she got them. Back in her Cal days, she could look like a superstar one game and a total loser in the next...so maybe if she can develop more consistency, there is hope. But my expectations are tempered by memory.



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PostPosted: 06/25/18 12:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There was no garbage time in the Atlanta game. Boyd had 11 assists in just 16 minutes. That was with only one turnover against an Atlanta team that leads the league in forced turnovers. Just one game, but awfully good to be simply a matter of luck.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 06/25/18 1:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
There was no garbage time in the Atlanta game. Boyd had 11 assists in just 16 minutes. That was with only one turnover against an Atlanta team that leads the league in forced turnovers. Just one game, but awfully good to be simply a matter of luck.


That was such a remarkable stat: 11 assists in 16 minutes!!! It's impressive to get 11 assists in 30+ minutes.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 06/25/18 1:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
root_thing wrote:
There was no garbage time in the Atlanta game. Boyd had 11 assists in just 16 minutes. That was with only one turnover against an Atlanta team that leads the league in forced turnovers. Just one game, but awfully good to be simply a matter of luck.


That was such a remarkable stat: 11 assists in 16 minutes!!! It's impressive to get 11 assists in 30+ minutes.


Obviously, it's not something anybody can do regularly. However, it underlines the fact that Boyd has legitimate skill as a playmaker and that she has developed the decision-making part of her game since her rookie season. Even though Brittany missed time physically, she sat behind the Liberty bench and continued to learn just by watching. So the lost court time may not have hindered her development as much as we feared.



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LibFan25



Joined: 01 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: 06/25/18 1:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Good News--- Marissa Coleman is out for tomorrow night's home game against Phoenix. per--Pat Ralph on twitter

this means more mins for Nurse, the way it should of been from the beginning when we were "actually" in close games and playing hard.

maybe Boyd will get mins as well who is "actually" playing well.


Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
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Location: New York City


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PostPosted: 06/25/18 1:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
root_thing wrote:
There was no garbage time in the Atlanta game. Boyd had 11 assists in just 16 minutes. That was with only one turnover against an Atlanta team that leads the league in forced turnovers. Just one game, but awfully good to be simply a matter of luck.


That was such a remarkable stat: 11 assists in 16 minutes!!! It's impressive to get 11 assists in 30+ minutes.


Obviously, it's not something anybody can do regularly. However, it underlines the fact that Boyd has legitimate skill as a playmaker and that she has developed the decision-making part of her game since her rookie season. Even though Brittany missed time physically, she sat behind the Liberty bench and continued to learn just by watching. So the lost court time may not have hindered her development as much as we feared.


Very good observations. When Boyd first came on the scene for the Liberty, what was most impressive was the way she could blaze down the court right by people. Now she's showing she can play under control and make a beautiful pass the way one hopes a point guard will. Boyd remains a work in progress, but she HAS progressed substantially as a playmaker.



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Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.
root_thing



Joined: 28 Apr 2007
Posts: 4290
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PostPosted: 06/25/18 2:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LibFan25 wrote:
Good News--- Marissa Coleman is out for tomorrow night's home game against Phoenix. per--Pat Ralph on twitter

this means more mins for Nurse, the way it should of been from the beginning when we were "actually" in close games and playing hard.

maybe Boyd will get mins as well who is "actually" playing well.


We're the only fans in the league who hope for injuries because fewer options mean our coach gets less confused. Razz



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We live in a political world
Love don't have any place
We're living in times
Where men commit crimes
And crime don't have any face
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