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New York Liberty 2018
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toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 09/12/17 5:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

In terms of starting PGs, yeah Hartley's at the bottom. Grateful she was able to do what she was able to do, but with a healthy Boyd & hopefully either L. Allen or a FA PG, Hartley should be our back-up SG next season.



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LibFan25



Joined: 01 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: 09/12/17 6:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
I was rough on Bria in the first part of the season, and I'm still not thrilled with her, but she seems to have found a niche. But her being far better as a starter than as a reserve just fucks up the rotation further. I don't think we can bench both Piph and Sugar, I don't think Bria and Brittany Boyd are a balanced combo in the backcourt, and I don't think we can go three-guard set with the guards we have (and if we did, where does that leave Z?).


Yeah Liberty management definitely have some tough decisions to make, I think they still believe in Boyd, they love Z's leadership so I don't think they are going anywhere. I can see them letting Hartley walk or resigning, Piph and Sugar both have some value, I think Sugar has more value due to her being younger and being available(overseas commitment)


ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 09/12/17 9:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The object is to win games, and with Hartley starting, New York won a lot of games.

But correlation is not causation, necessarily, and saying Hartley is better than Prince at lead guard is not saying a lot. (Prince is a decent two guard, but not a point.)

Which leads to the next point: Zellous turns 32 late next summer, and for her career, PER has her as a just below-average player. I'm not buying that completely, but what value does an older shooting guard have who has had an above average PER three times in her nine-year career?

Yes, she has some value, but what GM would give up a young player with potential for a veteran who might give a team a year or two before fading? Or maybe no years at all?

Epiphanny Prince turns 29 in January so she too is trending downward on the effectiveness curve, though of course she could still be a strong player for several years. Her PER is much better than Zellous, but then again PER doesn't capture defense as well as it might.

Like most veterans, though, Prince's TOs have gone down, but she also doesn't get to the free-throw line nearly as much as she did before.

So what team needs two older perimeter players (expensive ones, at that, I believe) badly enough to give up a younger asset that could help the Liberty get the most out of Tina Charles?

OK, throw in the No. 10, which netted these players in the last five years:

Kaela Davis
Imani Boyette
Samantha Logic
Markeisha Gatling
A'dia Matthies

The bottom line, I would say, for New York is that the most likely option is to hope Boyd comes back at full strength, and that Hartley, Zellous and Prince all have really good years. After all, the team went 22-12 this season, which is pretty good, and did so without Boyd.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 09/12/17 10:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Fenerbahce Women's Team's new transfer is learned that it is difficult for Kia Vaughn to be a European citizen.

Previously, Kelsey Plumm and Aerial Powers, who joined the Yellow Lacivertlists, wanted to play Vaughn, a Czech citizen, as European. However, the fact that the player is wearing the U20 in the US National Team is seen as an obstacle to this situation.

According to the new rule in our league, teams will be able to crawl 4 aliens, but only 2 of them may be illegal. Plumm and Powers will be able to leave Vaughn out of the league.



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Aladyyn



Joined: 23 Jul 2017
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PostPosted: 09/13/17 5:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Could Jamierra Faulkner be a trade target for New York?


Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 09/13/17 7:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Aladyyn wrote:
Could Jamierra Faulkner be a trade target for New York?


I'd enjoy it, but I think she might be much of a muchness if we're keeping Boyd. IMO, we need a PG with a jumper.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 09/13/17 7:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Aladyyn wrote:
Could Jamierra Faulkner be a trade target for New York?


She could, but what are we giving Chicago? R. Allen? Not our biggest need for 2018.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 09/13/17 7:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Aladyyn wrote:
Could Jamierra Faulkner be a trade target for New York?


Evil Bill does like big guards...



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Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 09/13/17 9:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
Aladyyn wrote:
Could Jamierra Faulkner be a trade target for New York?


I'd enjoy it, but I think she might be much of a muchness if we're keeping Boyd. IMO, we need a PG with a jumper.

If you want a point guard with a jumper then New York's primary objective should be to acquire Lexie Brown in next year's draft. You might have to trade up to get her because other teams might be coveting her also.



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LibFan25



Joined: 01 Sep 2012
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PostPosted: 09/13/17 10:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
Queenie wrote:
Aladyyn wrote:
Could Jamierra Faulkner be a trade target for New York?


I'd enjoy it, but I think she might be much of a muchness if we're keeping Boyd. IMO, we need a PG with a jumper.

If you want a point guard with a jumper then New York's primary objective should be to acquire Lexie Brown in next year's draft. You might have to trade up to get her because other teams might be coveting her also.


If she has another great year like she did last, she won't even get pass the 6th pick. I can see Dallas scooping her up.

Duke vs Ohio state --- that Brown vs Mitchell matchup will be fun and interesting to watch.


toad455



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PostPosted: 09/13/17 10:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Seattle might be eyeing Lexie Brown. Unless players like Collier, Stevens & McGowan declare early.



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LibFan25



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PostPosted: 09/13/17 7:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
I think Seattle might be eyeing Lexie Brown. Unless players like Collier, Stevens & McGowan declare early.


i think Seattle might be looking for a need then "best available" they need a post player badly


J-Spoon



Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: 09/13/17 9:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LibFan25 wrote:
toad455 wrote:
I think Seattle might be eyeing Lexie Brown. Unless players like Collier, Stevens & McGowan declare early.


i think Seattle might be looking for a need then "best available" they need a post player badly


This is why I think Stokes and #10 for #5 is a trade that makes sense for both teams. Seattle already has its two stars they need to build around them. Stokes is a nice defensive post to play with Stewart and Loyd and someone like Nurse or Canada at #10 would be a good fit for Seattle. NY needs a higher impact player, if that player can be obtained at #5 say Deshields, K. Mitchell or G. Williams than we should go for it. (Of course if they go 2, 3, and 4 I would probably rather just keep Stokes and whoever we would get at #10 possibly Nared Nurse or Canada).


Michelle89



Joined: 17 Nov 2010
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PostPosted: 09/14/17 3:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
LibFan25 wrote:
toad455 wrote:
I think Seattle might be eyeing Lexie Brown. Unless players like Collier, Stevens & McGowan declare early.


i think Seattle might be looking for a need then "best available" they need a post player badly


This is why I think Stokes and #10 for #5 is a trade that makes sense for both teams. Seattle already has its two stars they need to build around them. Stokes is a nice defensive post to play with Stewart and Loyd and someone like Nurse or Canada at #10 would be a good fit for Seattle. NY needs a higher impact player, if that player can be obtained at #5 say Deshields, K. Mitchell or G. Williams than we should go for it. (Of course if they go 2, 3, and 4 I would probably rather just keep Stokes and whoever we would get at #10 possibly Nared Nurse or Canada).


Dont follow the college players but yeah i would do that based of a HUGE need for a defensive center that can take the pressure of Stewart and fix our defense. Let Langhorne come off the bench



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Happycappie25



Joined: 07 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: 09/14/17 5:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
LibFan25 wrote:
toad455 wrote:
I think Seattle might be eyeing Lexie Brown. Unless players like Collier, Stevens & McGowan declare early.


i think Seattle might be looking for a need then "best available" they need a post player badly


This is why I think Stokes and #10 for #5 is a trade that makes sense for both teams. Seattle already has its two stars they need to build around them. Stokes is a nice defensive post to play with Stewart and Loyd and someone like Nurse or Canada at #10 would be a good fit for Seattle. NY needs a higher impact player, if that player can be obtained at #5 say Deshields, K. Mitchell or G. Williams than we should go for it. (Of course if they go 2, 3, and 4 I would probably rather just keep Stokes and whoever we would get at #10 possibly Nared Nurse or Canada).


Dont follow the college players but yeah i would do that based of a HUGE need for a defensive center that can take the pressure of Stewart and fix our defense. Let Langhorne come off the bench


toss in our 2nd OR the rights to Shoni and give us swords back and you got a deal otherwise Stokes is a lot to give up...going north with your centers being Vaughn and zhaui isn't an easy feeling



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zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
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PostPosted: 09/14/17 8:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stokes for the 5th pick seems about right.Throwing in the #10 pick would be excessive,unless you're also getting back Langhorne.


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 09/14/17 9:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe the Stokes from her rookie year gets you back the #5 straight up in this draft, but at this point thre's a reason that New York fans are decidedly willing to dump her. She's spent all this season as the backup to a player Lib fans are also trying to get shot of. She seems like she'd be a nice fit in Seattle, but don't overpay for a center again to get her.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 9:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Lib fans are that down on Stokes,send her to dallas for Christmas & the #6 pick........You can keep the #10 pick.


willtalk



Joined: 13 Apr 2012
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PostPosted: 09/14/17 9:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Happy--- Shoni's problem has always been allowing her self to get out of shape in the off season. Why should anyone believe that she would keep in WNBA basketball shape after an entire season off when she couldn't ever do it between seasons. Unless she actually shows that she has changed that cycle she has 0 trade value. NY has nothing to lose inviting her to camp because they already hold her rights .


ClayK



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 10:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Kiah Stokes for Diamond DeShields seems like an even deal to me ...

The potential is there for both, but you have no idea what you're going to get.



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Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 10:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well said Forest Gump Wink Laughing


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 09/14/17 10:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Maybe the Stokes from her rookie year gets you back the #5 straight up in this draft, but at this point thre's a reason that New York fans are decidedly willing to dump her. She's spent all this season as the backup to a player Lib fans are also trying to get shot of. She seems like she'd be a nice fit in Seattle, but don't overpay for a center again to get her.


I agreed with everything up to "she'd be a nice fit in Seattle." Strikes me the last thing they need is another too-short center, especially when this one lacks the offensive output of the current one.


Shades



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 11:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Kiah Stokes for Diamond DeShields seems like an even deal to me ...

The potential is there for both, but you have no idea what you're going to get.


I would assume we've already seen near the ceiling of Stokes, while with DeShields that ceiling could be a bit higher. Boom/bust with DeShields, stable middlin' expectations with Stokes.



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J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 1:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I would love to do it without #10 but was trying to be realistic.

Not down on Stokes tbh I think she is our player with the highest trade value, but I don't think it is top 5 pick high. (Stokes to Dallas for #6 might work, I think Christmas is an UFA as well.)

I think we might able to get Swords for free she is an Unrestricted free agent. I doubt Seattle cores her because that means paying her a max contract if no one is willing to trade for her.

So if it looks better Stokes and #10 for Swords and #5 (but really we just sign Swords as an UFA).


J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 2:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Maybe the Stokes from her rookie year gets you back the #5 straight up in this draft, but at this point thre's a reason that New York fans are decidedly willing to dump her. She's spent all this season as the backup to a player Lib fans are also trying to get shot of. She seems like she'd be a nice fit in Seattle, but don't overpay for a center again to get her.


I agreed with everything up to "she'd be a nice fit in Seattle." Strikes me the last thing they need is another too-short center, especially when this one lacks the offensive output of the current one.


Stokes is bigger than Langhorne and more athletic than Swords. There simply aren't that many 6' 5" plus athletic centers out there so Stokes id probably the next best thing. Combining her with Langhorne as a 2 headed center is a good option for Seattle. Who else is out there that would be better for Seattle?


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