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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 08/15/18 2:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
I'd throw money at her and make the Sparks match. Eat up LA's cap space.

But then she could've done that this year and would've likely got max offers. She chose not to. Throwing max money at someone doesn't mean much if they don't want to sign it.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 08/15/18 2:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Randy wrote:
Shades wrote:
zune69 wrote:

Signing Sims after her contract expires would be a smart move on the part of Reeve....Maybe Minny/LA can work out a trade.


You must be Sims’ agent, because you were looking to trade her when she was on Dallas, and now you’re concerned about her being on the Sparks. You might be every player’s agent. Wink

Sims isn’t really my cup of tea, so I hope Reeve avoids this unless it’s like a last resort type of thing. I definitely don’t want Reeve trading another first round pick, and I doubt the Sparks will want to “help” the Lynx for a second round pick. Sparks and the Lynx never do much negotiating.


I'd throw money at her and make the Sparks match. Eat up LA's cap space.


We’ll let ATL make that sacrifice since you got that young money.


Unlike the Lynx, we don't need another guard



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PostPosted: 08/15/18 2:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

That used to be true but with Breland and Montgomery, the Hayes extension and Angel's "multi-year" deal the Dream may start having cap trouble. I suspect Bentley also gets paid at or near max and her contract might be up so there's another one.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 08/15/18 2:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
That used to be true but with Breland and Montgomery, the Hayes extension and Angel's "multi-year" deal the Dream may start having cap trouble. I suspect Bentley also gets paid at or near max and her contract might be up so there's another one.


So replace Bentley with Sims.

It was your plan to hurt the Sparks by offering Sims max and making the Sparks pay max knowing that they’d probably pay it, so implement it. I don’t care.

I don’t want Sims, and I definitely don’t want Sims at max. $65K? Maybe I’d be in at that price if she gave a better than $65K performance this year.

If you like Sims and you ended up with Sims after implementing your devious plan, the worst that would happen is that you replace either Bentley or Dietrick. Go for it!

And all this convo erupted on zune’s baseless assumption that Sims is unhappy in LA. Most likely she’s happy.



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PostPosted: 08/15/18 3:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You are making a good case. My first reaction is Sims is better than Bentley, but I haven't followed her that closely. We'll have to see how both do the rest of the season.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 08/15/18 3:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
zune69 wrote:

Signing Sims after her contract expires would be a smart move on the part of Reeve....Maybe Minny/LA can work out a trade.


You must be Sims’ agent, because you were looking to trade her when she was on Dallas, and now you’re concerned about her being on the Sparks. You might be every player’s agent. Wink
.


Laughing


Trading Sims was necessary...She needed a disciplinarian type of Coach....After Sims recovered from a bad ankle sprain she finished the 2017 season playing the best basketball of her career...Sims' great play carried over to the start of this season...but her role on offense has steadily decreased.

If Dallas can hire a strong Veteran HC...I wouldn't mind seeing Sims back in Dallas...Davis is close with Parker right?.......Davis & Hill for Sims

Shades wrote:

And all this convo erupted on zune’s baseless assumption that Sims is unhappy in LA. Most likely she’s happy.


Another baseless assumption Wink ....but of course this is a sports forum...people are allowed to give their opinion......and BTW....Sims certainly didn't look happy sitting on the bench last night.


Sorry Liberty fans...


J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 08/16/18 12:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well to save the Liberty I'm cool with any ideas at the moment.

Maybe with the emergence or R. Williams LA is less excited to keep Sims, I would be OK with offering Sims max she is as good if not better than the guard we have at the moment.

I'm also trying to figure out who might be gettable below market value so obviously with some risk involved. I don't see Jefferson lasting in LV so if we could poach for say Rodgers and a 2nd round pick or even Hartley I would be up for it.

Harrison was mentioned earlier we have enough room to throw max money at her if she is a RFA se if LV even needs her they're doing pretty good without her and might land another big if they stay in the lottery or even at #5.

Is Copper someone we might be able to get? I'm not sure what we have the Chicago would want, is she a RFA next season? Stokes for Copper if we luck out with a top 2 lottery pick for one of the bigs?

I refuse to go down the Charles trade route yet.


But if we have a bold GM is there a possible trade for our lottery pick that I would consider? We would have to wait to see where it falls, while I have my draft picks in mind if NY is looking to skip the rebuild maybe there is a trade out their that could work. Probably too risky and too early to consider, but let say we ended up with the #3 pick and Conn offered up J. Jones, that kind of trade might be out there and I wouldn't see that as an immediate no.


Randy



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PostPosted: 08/16/18 7:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:


Another baseless assumption Wink ....but of course this is a sports forum...people are allowed to give their opinion......and BTW....Sims certainly didn't look happy sitting on the bench last night.


Sorry Liberty fans...


I don't recall ever seeing Sims with a smile on her face going all the way back to Baylor. She looks like she has chronic urine repulsion syndrome.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 08/16/18 7:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
zune69 wrote:


Another baseless assumption Wink ....but of course this is a sports forum...people are allowed to give their opinion......and BTW....Sims certainly didn't look happy sitting on the bench last night.


Sorry Liberty fans...


I don't recall ever seeing Sims with a smile on her face going all the way back to Baylor. She looks like she has chronic urine repulsion syndrome.







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Shades



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PostPosted: 08/16/18 9:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not only does zune cherry pick stats to sell his arguments, now he’s cherry picking sideline expressions at any given moment to do the same. And pilight ends up googling images of Sims smiling, like I’m sure sure you can’t find Sims smiling as a Spark. So much waste of time.



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PostPosted: 08/16/18 9:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Not only does zune cherry pick stats to sell his arguments, now he’s cherry picking sideline expressions at any given moment to do the same. And pilight ends up googling images of Sims smiling, like I’m sure sure you can’t find Sims smiling as a Spark. So much waste of time.


Everything we do here is a waste of time. That's what the board is for.



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PostPosted: 08/16/18 9:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The internet is the greatest time waster ever invented by humankind. If I wasn't so busy wasting time on other forums I'd look up a bunch of Sims photos with her usual frowns.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 08/16/18 12:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Not only does zune cherry pick stats to sell his arguments, now he’s cherry picking sideline expressions at any given moment to do the same. And pilight ends up googling images of Sims smiling, like I’m sure sure you can’t find Sims smiling as a Spark. So much waste of time.


I notice you only say this when the numbers aren't in your favor...Statistics are one of the biggest factors in how we judge players, especially the primary offensive players.If we make a list of the top 20 players.Chances are, all 20 players would be top 25 in 3 or 4 different statistical categories...However, it's always important to keep statistics in context, especially for the bench/role players. You can fall into the trap of thinking a player is very good when in reality they’re just a specialist who's a offensive/defensive liability.That being said,I've never posted stats without pointing out a player flaws(Poor defender,undersize,Low percentage volume shooter,Low Assist rate,can't create their own shot)...statistics shouldn't be the sole factor in how we judge a player,but they certainly shouldn't be dismissed just because they work against your argument.

I find it hilarious that you're accusing me of cherry-picking Sims expression when you're the biggest assumption making mind reader on this board.Sims' demeanor wasn't isolated to just one or two moments in the game.Sims had a somber look on her face/body throughout the entire game...Go back and watch the game if you don't believe me:

1.Sims sat laid back,or with her arms crossed for 90% of the game.

2.Most of the time when LA scored a basket Sims was the last to clap….While almost every Sparks bench player stood and clapped,Sims sat and clapped.

3.Sims sat in the 1st,2nd or 3rd seat for the entire game...but was the last player to greet the team when a timeout was called.

Sims discontent was obvious.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 08/16/18 1:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
Well to save the Liberty I'm cool with any ideas at the moment.

Maybe with the emergence or R. Williams LA is less excited to keep Sims, I would be OK with offering Sims max she is as good if not better than the guard we have at the moment.

I'm also trying to figure out who might be gettable below market value so obviously with some risk involved. I don't see Jefferson lasting in LV so if we could poach for say Rodgers and a 2nd round pick or even Hartley I would be up for it.

Harrison was mentioned earlier we have enough room to throw max money at her if she is a RFA se if LV even needs her they're doing pretty good without her and might land another big if they stay in the lottery or even at #5.

Is Copper someone we might be able to get? I'm not sure what we have the Chicago would want, is she a RFA next season? Stokes for Copper if we luck out with a top 2 lottery pick for one of the bigs?

I refuse to go down the Charles trade route yet.


But if we have a bold GM is there a possible trade for our lottery pick that I would consider? We would have to wait to see where it falls, while I have my draft picks in mind if NY is looking to skip the rebuild maybe there is a trade out their that could work. Probably too risky and too early to consider, but let say we ended up with the #3 pick and Conn offered up J. Jones, that kind of trade might be out there and I wouldn't see that as an immediate no.


Do we have any kind of GM -- bold, timid, manic, calm, loud, quiet, one-legged or cross-eyed?

Yes, there are a lot of potential moves that can be made. I suggested trading for Sims when she was with Tulsa, so I'd be interested again. I've mentioned that Copper, Tuck, and Powers (before the trade) will be RFAs in 2020 and unlikely to be matched for big money, so their current teams might consider trading them in 2019 to get something back. I mentioned Queens girl Cheyenne Parker as a free agent target, and also Harrison who is unneeded by LVA. Hell, I'll even take Alexander who looked pretty good two years ago under Hughes. But none of this matters if Liberty management continues to show ZERO initiative.

I mean, why don't we have an emergency replacement player or two right now? Stokes played the entire second half, and I don't think Vaughn got on the court again after the 1st Quater. Since Kia was a game-time decision the previous two outings, I suspect she was injured. That means three injured post players out of four, assuming Stokes is finally healthy. Why not bring in a body just so you have someone to throw out there if needed? Stokes who has barely been playing was forced to stay on the court for 34 minutes. Coleman missed the two previous games, and yesterday I saw her limping at times. Seriously, you're putting people's health at risk. There's no excuse to not bring in a player or two just to provide relief. Is it because you're too lazy to look for players? Can't wait for the phone to charge so you can call their agents? Don't want to do the league paperwork? Don't want to spend time explaining the playbook to new players? You're not winning these games anyway, so what's the difference? Just make sure your players get to the end without hurting themselves. Is that too much to ask? Confused

Just taking action seems like a chore for this bunch. Watching Brian Agler in the previous game, he jumped up and called a timeout after the Liberty scored five straight points. A couple of days earlier, Katie Smith waited until Atlanta had gone on a 14-0 run before calling timeout. What took you so long, Katie? I guess we have to wait for a runaway train before lifting a finger.

And let's look at the moves management made this off-season:

1) Re-signed Kia Vaughn. I saw absolutely no support for this move among fans.

2) Re-signed Bria Hartley. Generally makes sense since Boyd was hurt and Lindsay Allen was unproven. A good move, but not what you'd call a challenging decision.

3) Drafted Nurse, Russell, and Leslie Robinson. Nurse was a good pick, but again not the most challenging decision to make. Russell was a big name that flat-out fell into their laps. Give management credit for taking her, but then they turned around and tossed their good fortune away. Robinson was clearly a suck-up to Knicks management move. Not materially damaging, but certainly not the actions of people determined to turn over every stone to improve their team.

4) Signed Marissa Coleman. Looking at the previous season (2017), Indiana lost Shenise Johnson early and was desperate for wing help. Nonetheless, Coleman couldn't hang on to her starting small forward job. Pokey replaced her by going to a three-guard alignment. When that didn't work, Chatman decided to make Jazmon Gwathmey the starter. So, Coleman finished out the last 7 games of 2017 as Jazmon Gwathmey's backup. Ponder that one for a moment. Crank it into your grey matter and let the neurons fire awhile. Jazmon... Gwathmey's... backup. If you're looking to improve your team, is signing Jazmon Gwathmey's backup really the best idea you can come up with?



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PostPosted: 08/16/18 2:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Liberty Free Agents:
Charles
Coleman
Boyd
Prince
Rodgers
Vaughn
Zahui b
Zellous
Allen

Under contract for 2019:
Stokes
Hartley
Nurse


According to the Player Salary Database.


Richyyy



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PostPosted: 08/16/18 2:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bear in mind how many errors there were in Megdal's spreadsheet last time, and that several of those players will be restricted free agents.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 08/16/18 3:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah...Boyd,Zahui b and I think Allan are the obvious RFA.......Liberty fans should be happy...They have enough cap space to sign multiple Free Agents.


The Lib should definitely go after Bonner and Dupree(package deal)

McCoughtry' and G.Johnson are also FA.

C.Thomas wouldn't be a bad FA pickup...She's a legit 6'5.


J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 08/16/18 3:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Liberty Free Agents:
Charles
Coleman
Boyd
Prince
Rodgers
Vaughn
Zahui b
Zellous
Allen

Under contract for 2019:
Stokes
Hartley
Nurse


According to the Player Salary Database.


So looking at that list my guess is

Charles is cored (At best stays at worst traded)
Boyd and Zahui B are RFA and get re-signed
Zellous is an UFA we try to re-sign but she goes to be a veteran presence off the bench for a better team LA, LV, Minny
Prince UFA this one is hard maybe skips season to stay healthy for longer career over-seas, maybe goes to Atl, maybe re-signs %40 chance
Rodger UFA I will go 50/50 I could see her going else where I could see the Liberty if Zellous and Prince are gone making an offer
Coleman UFA Should be gone, if the team doesn't change ownership or get new GM won't be shocked if she returns
Vaughn same as Coleman, should be gone, but might still get offer
R. Allen should be gone same as Coleman and Vaughn excepts she is RFA could see her skip season though
Nayo Raincock-Ekunwe reserved player not under contract my guess doesn't return

So my prediction going into next season before draft and outside signings

Boyd
Hartley/Rodgers
Nurse
Charles/Zahui B
Stokes

3 draft picks, camp invites, possibly a new but not exciting free agent or 2 (unless there is new ownership and a move back to the city I do not see the Liberty getting any top tier or even 2nd tier free agents, it will be Coleman/Vaughn equivalent signing).

If Charles demands trade we will look very different


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PostPosted: 08/16/18 3:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
Charles is cored (At best stays at worst traded)

'At worst' would be "if I can't play at MSG then fuck this league".



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 08/16/18 4:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Boyd, AZB, and Allen obviously have expiring rookie contracts. Unless management quietly re-signed Zellous, she should be done too. I assume even this dumb management group didn't sign Coleman to more than one year. Charles would obviously be cored if she's a free agent. Nurse is a rookie, and it was announced that Stokes got an extension. The re-signing announcement for Hartley and Vaughn didn't say how many years. One or both could be under contract or maybe neither. Prince and Rodgers had contracts that started last season. Two years is actually an odd length. If the team likes you, players usually get 3 or 4. If management isn't sure, then they'd probably offer one year. It would be wonderful if Prince and Rodgers are free agents, but I'm not counting on it until I see hard evidence.

And again, even if we had all the cap space in the world, who is making the decisions? The same faceless, passive group we've been griping about so far? They'd probably drag their feet signing people and we'd start 2019 with half a roster.


Edit: I just remembered that Allen wasn't drafted. She's not on a rookie contract, but it seems like Bec has been signing one-year contracts. Also, she has accumulated 4 years of service time and is likely an RFA.



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PostPosted: 08/16/18 5:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Boyd, AZB, and Allen obviously have expiring rookie contracts. Unless management quietly re-signed Zellous, she should be done too. I assume even this dumb management group didn't sign Coleman to more than one year. Charles would obviously be cored if she's a free agent. Nurse is a rookie, and it was announced that Stokes got an extension. The re-signing announcement for Hartley and Vaughn didn't say how many years. One or both could be under contract or maybe neither. Prince and Rodgers had contracts that started last season. Two years is actually an odd length. If the team likes you, players usually get 3 or 4. If management isn't sure, then they'd probably offer one year. It would be wonderful if Prince and Rodgers are free agents, but I'm not counting on it until I see hard evidence.

And again, even if we had all the cap space in the world, who is making the decisions? The same faceless, passive group we've been griping about so far? They'd probably drag their feet signing people and we'd start 2019 with half a roster.


Edit: I just remembered that Allen wasn't drafted. She's not on a rookie contract, but it seems like Bec has been signing one-year contracts. Also, she has accumulated 4 years of service time and is likely an RFA.


Love the analysis , i doubt anyone willl sign more than 1 yr contracts this offseason with the new CBA coming up . So it might be more of the players decision versus management "liking them" or not .



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PostPosted: 08/16/18 5:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Playing for Dolan does have it's benefits...A guaranteed paying gig after retirement could be very enticing to a veteran WNBA player....Weatherspoon,Cash,K.Hampton,H.Williams,A.Houston,L.Johnson and many many more have good paying jobs due to their ties with Dolan.


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PostPosted: 08/16/18 10:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
Charles is cored (At best stays at worst traded)

'At worst' would be "if I can't play at MSG then fuck this league".


True, but because she donates a good portion of her WNBA salary to a charitable foundation that I believe she created I could see her continuing in the league for that reason alone.

I am hoping for new ownership/management and a better GM because If I was Tina I probably wouldn't want to stay, work my ass off, have very little support and have this kind of result at atmosphere.

If she does sit out or demand a trade I won't be mad at her.


root_thing



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PostPosted: 08/18/18 2:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Continuing the discussion from the Liberty-Storm game thread, let's look at who makes the decisions for the Liberty:

1) Isiah Thomas, President: As far as I can tell, Zeke is busy sucking up to NBA people, hoping to land his next gig.
2) Daakeia Clarke, COO: I think she only handles the non-basketball side of things.
3) Katie Smith Head Coach: Probably not paying attention. Too busy writing and re-writing her Hall Of Fame induction speech.
4) Teresa Weatherspoon, Dir. Player & Franchise Development: Would probably do something but I don't think she has the clout.
5) Dan Padover, VP Basketball Operations: Started out as a video coordinator; is now also involved in stats. Unlikely to have anything to do with player acquisition.
5) Swin Cash, Director of Franchise Development: Mostly interested in looking glamorous. Too busy running around town looking for media opportunities.
6) Herb Williams Assistant Coach: Has been associated with MSG almost continuously since 1992. Just part of the scenery.
7) Barbara Farris Assistant Coach: On loan from John Curtis High School in New Orleans. Likely going back.

So, these are the people planning our big comeback next year. Feeling confident? Smile



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You must barter your life to make sure you are living
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PostPosted: 08/18/18 4:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
Continuing the discussion from the Liberty-Storm game thread, let's look at who makes the decisions for the Liberty:

1) Isiah Thomas, President: As far as I can tell, Zeke is busy sucking up to NBA people, hoping to land his next gig.
2) Daakeia Clarke, COO: I think she only handles the non-basketball side of things.
3) Katie Smith Head Coach: Probably not paying attention. Too busy writing and re-writing her Hall Of Fame induction speech.
4) Teresa Weatherspoon, Dir. Player & Franchise Development: Would probably do something but I don't think she has the clout.
5) Dan Padover, VP Basketball Operations: Started out as a video coordinator; is now also involved in stats. Unlikely to have anything to do with player acquisition.
5) Swin Cash, Director of Franchise Development: Mostly interested in looking glamorous. Too busy running around town looking for media opportunities.
6) Herb Williams Assistant Coach: Has been associated with MSG almost continuously since 1992. Just part of the scenery.
7) Barbara Farris Assistant Coach: On loan from John Curtis High School in New Orleans. Likely going back.

So, these are the people planning our big comeback next year. Feeling confident? Smile


Thanks for this detailed list (including titles) and analysis. I noted in the other thread that I was NOT confident of this management team's ability to make great moves in the offseason--given the decisions they made in the most recent offseason. Indeed, looking at the list above, it remains very unclear as to who is actually making personnel decisions.

What's especially discouraging is that we've been given various implicit messages that nothing will change for next season. Hideous Lord Jimmy still the team's owner, same management team, same coach, same minor-league facility. I will hope for some spectacular change, but I don't expect it.


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