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pilight



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PostPosted: 07/10/18 6:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
pilight wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Damn....some people want to fire K.Smith halfway through her first season Laughing... Let Katie get 2 or 3 lottery picks like most of the other Head Coaches before you give her a pink slip.


She's got four lottery picks on the roster now...


Lottery picks that were drafted by other teams...

By your count,the liberty have 4 lottery picks....How many lottery picks do the other 11 WNBA teams have?


6 Seattle
5 Connecticut
4 Chicago
4 Dallas
4 Las Vegas
4 Los Angeles
4 Minnesota
4 New York
4 Phoenix
4 Washington
3 Atlanta
3 Indiana



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zune69



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PostPosted: 07/10/18 6:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
zune69 wrote:
pilight wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Damn....some people want to fire K.Smith halfway through her first season Laughing... Let Katie get 2 or 3 lottery picks like most of the other Head Coaches before you give her a pink slip.


She's got four lottery picks on the roster now...


Lottery picks that were drafted by other teams...

By your count,the liberty have 4 lottery picks....How many lottery picks do the other 11 WNBA teams have?


6 Seattle
5 Connecticut
4 Chicago
4 Dallas
4 Las Vegas
4 Los Angeles
4 Minnesota
4 New York
4 Phoenix
4 Washington
3 Atlanta
3 Indiana


Coleman(Wash) was a lottery pick bust.
Zahui b(Dal) was a lottery bust-But has the potential to be a solid bench player.
E.Prince(Chi) was a lottery pick in a weak draft and is 70% of what she used to be...Prince has been battling injuries for the last 3-4 seasons.

Lets give Katie 2 or 3 years before we kick her to the curb.


J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 07/10/18 10:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't know if we can just waive vets, so I would seriously look to trade any vet in the last hear of their contract for lowball future consideration simply to free up a roster spot to give some other players a shot with 7 day audition for the future contracts.

I have nothing against any of these players but we no longer need all of Prince, Rodgers, Zellous, Hartley and Coleman, if we are a sinking ship either way. Lets tighten up the rotation with a heavy emphasis on Buyd and Nurse, and get some hungry young players to come re-invigorate the team.

I would think that most of our vets wouldn't mind being traded for a 2nd or 3rd round pick if it meant going somewhere competitive.

And nothing personal but it might simply be time to waive R. Allen if none of those trades exist, we need to shake things up a little bit. Or Start her, give her one game of 30 minutes to show what she can do.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 9:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Damn....some people want to fire K.Smith halfway through her first season Laughing... Let Katie get 2 or 3 lottery picks like most of the other Head Coaches before you give her a pink slip.


Haven’t seen anyone say they want her gone who posts here regularly. However, I think you’re deluding yourself if you’re not calling into question certain aspects of her performance.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 5:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Damn....some people want to fire K.Smith halfway through her first season Laughing... Let Katie get 2 or 3 lottery picks like most of the other Head Coaches before you give her a pink slip.


Haven’t seen anyone say they want her gone who posts here regularly. However, I think you’re deluding yourself if you’re not calling into question certain aspects of her performance.


Thank you, NYL_WNBA_FAN. Correct on both counts.

It's always so much fun to exaggerate or distort what people have said and then trash them--even laugh at them--for things they never said.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 6:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thanks. And I’ll also give credit where’s it due. Katie’s subs were on point today matchup-wise. 3 guards vs. 3 guards at one point down the stretch. The Boyd sub out of the timeout down 76-73 with the drive, draw and dish for the Piph 3 was a thing of beauty. Pulling Boyd after the two late turnovers was also the right move.

Exchanges of Vaughn and Zahui throughout the game were also really good. Inserting Stokes down 5 with 3 and change left probably was the key to them winning. All the plays out of timeouts were well designed. I thought she coached a magnificent game.

And I think most Libs posters are reasonable. Nobody on the team is a scapegoat just because they’re not liked (not always the case on this board in the past). I question parts of Sugar’s game even though she’s one of my absolute favorites personally. Her story is a great one, and she has a rep for hard work. If I had a daughter, I’d love for her to have the perseverance and resilience of Sugar. I just also want to win. In pro ball, that’s where it’s at.

As for Katie or any coach, I don’t think anyone here wants perfection. I know I sure don’t. I think you just want the coach to give you the best possible chance to win with the personnel you’ve got. Katie did that today. That’s a trend I tend to think will continue. If it does, the team will be better for it moving forward.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 6:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
As for Katie or any coach, I don’t think anyone here wants perfection. I know I sure don’t.


Most people want perfection, but they don't expect it.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 7:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Smith can get the Liberty to play consistent D and work out her rotations, she might be ok. But this was really the first game was saw solid D from New York and the substitutions actually made sense. Maybe Smith has figured stuff out?



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zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
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PostPosted: 07/11/18 7:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Damn....some people want to fire K.Smith halfway through her first season Laughing... Let Katie get 2 or 3 lottery picks like most of the other Head Coaches before you give her a pink slip.


Haven’t seen anyone say they want her gone who posts here regularly. However, I think you’re deluding yourself if you’re not calling into question certain aspects of her performance.


In Liberty game thread...

jmvcity wrote:
Should Herb Williams take over?

Maybe management has already given up on the season and will just let her finish this stint. Do they care about hanging a dark cloud on her HOF enshrinement just weeks away.?


snlMINAJ wrote:
i think the change that needs to be made is the coach.
the 'fans' can't be the only ones baffled by the PT of players...


if they're not releasing statements re: kia nurse and kiah stokes - then its purely coach decision to play them very and increasingly sparingly.... and as others have said - its not like they're being benched in favor of other players playing lights out.


katie has got to go, its horrible.


Plus another 3-4 post debating whether the Liberty should hire Weatherspoon.

And who said I have no problems with some of the moves made by Katie?...I was concerned about Nurse’s playing time before Rodgers/Prince were even cleared to play

zune69 wrote:
I hope Nurse continues to play 25-30 mpg...Even when Rodgers,Prince,and Boyd make their return.


Yes,I question a lot of Katie's decisions:

1.Starting Hartley over Boyd...Hartley is a combo guard,and should be coming off the bench...Boyd has greater upside as a PG.

2.Starting Vaughn...Kia is a bench player.

3.Limiting Stokes' minutes...Kiah is an elite level defender if given the opportunity.

4.Decreasing Nurse's minutes...Kia should be playing 24-30 mpg.

5.Cutting Russell & Allen.

All I'm saying is let's give K.Smith an opportunity to improve as a Head Coach,draft 1 or 2 lottery picks,acquire talent thru trade & FA,and develop some young players.

Bob Lamm wrote:

Thank you, NYL_WNBA_FAN. Correct on both counts.

It's always so much fun to exaggerate or distort what people have said and then trash them--even laugh at them--for things they never said.


Get out of your feelings….What I said was fact..the receipts are posted.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 7:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Damn....some people want to fire K.Smith halfway through her first season Laughing... Let Katie get 2 or 3 lottery picks like most of the other Head Coaches before you give her a pink slip.


Haven’t seen anyone say they want her gone who posts here regularly. However, I think you’re deluding yourself if you’re not calling into question certain aspects of her performance.


In Liberty game thread...

jmvcity wrote:
Should Herb Williams take over?

Maybe management has already given up on the season and will just let her finish this stint. Do they care about hanging a dark cloud on her HOF enshrinement just weeks away.?


snlMINAJ wrote:
i think the change that needs to be made is the coach.
the 'fans' can't be the only ones baffled by the PT of players...


if they're not releasing statements re: kia nurse and kiah stokes - then its purely coach decision to play them very and increasingly sparingly.... and as others have said - its not like they're being benched in favor of other players playing lights out.


katie has got to go, its horrible.


Plus another 3-4 post debating whether the Liberty should hire Weatherspoon.

And who said I have no problems with some of the moves made by Katie?...I was concerned about Nurse’s playing time before Rodgers/Prince were even cleared to play

zune69 wrote:
I hope Nurse continues to play 25-30 mpg...Even when Rodgers,Prince,and Boyd make their return.


Yes,I question a lot of Katie's decisions:

1.Starting Hartley over Boyd...Hartley is a combo guard,and should be coming off the bench...Boyd has greater upside as a PG.

2.Starting Vaughn...Kia is a bench player.

3.Limiting Stokes' minutes...Kiah is an elite level defender if given the opportunity.

4.Decreasing Nurse's minutes...Kia should be playing 24-30 mpg.

5.Cutting Russell & Allen.

All I'm saying is let's give K.Smith an opportunity to improve as a Head Coach,draft 1 or 2 lottery picks,acquire talent thru trade & FA,and develop some young players.

Bob Lamm wrote:

Thank you, NYL_WNBA_FAN. Correct on both counts.

It's always so much fun to exaggerate or distort what people have said and then trash them--even laugh at them--for things they never said.


Get out of your feelings….What I said was fact..the receipts are posted.


I saw those posts. I said “who posts here regularly” specifically because those two people DON’T post here regularly. Two posts out of thousands of Liberty fan posts isn’t exactly a sample size indicating that she’s wanted on the chopping block.

Were you in here in ‘07 and ‘08 when people wanted Patty Coyle fired on a regular basis? In spite of her success with two pretty modestly talented teams?

Let me tell you. This is nothing. Laughing

And, uh, if you’re questioning so many of Katie’s decisions yourself, why would you question someone thinking she should go? I get you think she should stay. So do I. But with all your critiques, you still find it shocking that people might think otherwise? That makes no sense.



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Last edited by NYL_WNBA_FAN on 07/11/18 7:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
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PostPosted: 07/11/18 7:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:


I saw those posts. I said “who posts here regularly” specifically because those two people DON’T post here regularly. Two posts out of thousands of Liberty fan posts isn’t exactly a sample size indicating that she’s wanted on the chopping block.


I said "some people want to fire K.Smith"

And how do you know the opinions of thousands of Liberty fans?.....The Liberty can barely get 2000 fans to show up to their home games.

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:

And, uh, if you’re questioning so many of Katie’s decisions yourself, why would you question someone thinking she should go? That makes no sense.


1.She's a rookie head coach.

2.The Liberty made no moves during the offseason.

3.The Liberty have 1 star player while most teams have 2 or 3.




Last edited by zune69 on 07/11/18 7:52 pm; edited 1 time in total
NYL_WNBA_FAN



Joined: 28 May 2007
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PostPosted: 07/11/18 7:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:


I saw those posts. I said “who posts here regularly” specifically because those two people DON’T post here regularly. Two posts out of thousands of Liberty fan posts isn’t exactly a sample size indicating that she’s wanted on the chopping block.


I said "some people want to fire K.Smith"

And how do you know the opinions of thousands of Liberty fans?.....The Liberty can barely get 2000 fans to show up to their home games.


Thousands of Liberty fan “posts” means thousands of posts. Not thousands of fans. I didn’t question you saying “some” fans want Katie Smith fired, since 2 is “some”. I just made the point that nobody who posts here on the reg wants her out. You questioned it. That’s it.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 7:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My point was how you gonna critique her so much but then question why someone else should want her out, even if you don’t want her out yourself? At that point it seems kind of like you’re mocking the group that posts here based on the singular posts of two people. Who rarely post to begin with. That’s all I’m saying.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 7:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:

Thousands of Liberty fan “posts” means thousands of posts. Not thousands of fans. I didn’t question you saying “some” fans want Katie Smith fired, since 2 is “some”. I just made the point that nobody who posts here on the reg wants her out. You questioned it. That’s it.


Spoon's name was also being thrown around....So it wasn't just 2 two posters.


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PostPosted: 07/11/18 7:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
As for Katie or any coach, I don’t think anyone here wants perfection. I know I sure don’t.


Most people want perfection, but they don't expect it.


That’s true. Some more than others bro...some more than others.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 7:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:

Thousands of Liberty fan “posts” means thousands of posts. Not thousands of fans. I didn’t question you saying “some” fans want Katie Smith fired, since 2 is “some”. I just made the point that nobody who posts here on the reg wants her out. You questioned it. That’s it.


Spoon's name was also being thrown around....So it wasn't just 2 two posters.


At no point was Spoon’s name thrown about by anyone who thinks Katie should be fired. I was the one who brought her up. My point was Spoon would at least maintain continuity but I’d rather Katie stay. I thought I made that pretty clear. But if it wasn’t, yes I would rather have Katie than Spoon. I like Spoon in her current role. However, IF a change were to be made, Spoon is the only one I want. I don’t want an outsider. Creates instability.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 8:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
zune69 wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:

Thousands of Liberty fan “posts” means thousands of posts. Not thousands of fans. I didn’t question you saying “some” fans want Katie Smith fired, since 2 is “some”. I just made the point that nobody who posts here on the reg wants her out. You questioned it. That’s it.


Spoon's name was also being thrown around....So it wasn't just 2 two posters.


At no point was Spoon’s name thrown about by anyone who thinks Katie should be fired. I was the one who brought her up. My point was Spoon would at least maintain continuity but I’d rather Katie stay. I thought I made that pretty clear.


You still made the comment that you would consider Weatherspoon.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 8:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Okay. Fair enough. And I didn’t word it that well in terms of clarity, looking back. However, I did also say I wanted her to get another year. And I certainly didn’t say I wanted her fired.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 8:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

@NYL_WNBA_FAN

My original post(some people want K.Smith fired) wasn't about you...I didn't realize you made the post about Weatherspoon until you attached your name to the comment.


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PostPosted: 07/11/18 8:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Point taken. Understood. Fair enough. My comment wasn’t loaded with clarity either, looking back on it.



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 9:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:


I saw those posts. I said “who posts here regularly” specifically because those two people DON’T post here regularly. Two posts out of thousands of Liberty fan posts isn’t exactly a sample size indicating that she’s wanted on the chopping block.


I said "some people want to fire K.Smith"

And how do you know the opinions of thousands of Liberty fans?.....The Liberty can barely get 2000 fans to show up to their home games.

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:

And, uh, if you’re questioning so many of Katie’s decisions yourself, why would you question someone thinking she should go? That makes no sense.


1.She's a rookie head coach.

2.The Liberty made no moves during the offseason.

3.The Liberty have 1 star player while most teams have 2 or 3.


Go to your room and lock the door ! Laughing Laughing



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PostPosted: 07/12/18 12:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It does feel like it might be time to start Boyd, or at least give her starting level minutes closer to 25-30 a night.

I still think she needs to score a little more, if she could get from 4-5 up to 7-8 a game, combined with her assists and defense she could become one of the top PGs in the league. OTOH if her offense limits her ability to be on the floor (hence not being on the floor in the last few offensive possessions of the Sun game) we need to see that now. We've been waiting for Boyd to become the regular starting PG of the Liberty. It feels like now is the time to make move.


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PostPosted: 07/13/18 8:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
pilight wrote:
zune69 wrote:
pilight wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Damn....some people want to fire K.Smith halfway through her first season Laughing... Let Katie get 2 or 3 lottery picks like most of the other Head Coaches before you give her a pink slip.


She's got four lottery picks on the roster now...


Lottery picks that were drafted by other teams...

By your count,the liberty have 4 lottery picks....How many lottery picks do the other 11 WNBA teams have?


6 Seattle
5 Connecticut
4 Chicago
4 Dallas
4 Las Vegas
4 Los Angeles
4 Minnesota
4 New York
4 Phoenix
4 Washington
3 Atlanta
3 Indiana


Coleman(Wash) was a lottery pick bust.
Zahui b(Dal) was a lottery bust-But has the potential to be a solid bench player.
E.Prince(Chi) was a lottery pick in a weak draft and is 70% of what she used to be...Prince has been battling injuries for the last 3-4 seasons.

Lets give Katie 2 or 3 years before we kick her to the curb.


I agree Smith should get more time. Let's not put all the failure on the roster, however. It's essentially the same as the one that went 22-12 a year ago plus Boyd and Nurse.



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5thmantheme



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PostPosted: 07/13/18 2:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

<snip>
pilight wrote:
It's essentially the same as the one that went 22-12 a year ago plus Boyd and Nurse.


This and the 10 game winning streak.

Prince and Stokes need to be at 100%.

Hartley and Zealous are improved.
Coleman got her groove back.
Zahui's had her best season.

Might get a tasty junior biscuit next year for the effort too.


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PostPosted: 07/13/18 9:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hi 5thmantheme, love your optimism, but I'm not sure I agree, or at the very least I think you are overrating the importance of some of this.

5thmantheme wrote:
Prince and Stokes need to be at 100%.

How do we know they're not 100% now? Prince seems to me to be the same player she's always been for the Liberty. And sadly, a 100% healthy Stokes has been the exception rather than the rule since her rookie season. With the exception of a few teases, Kiah hasn't been an offensive factor since she injured her hip. I worry that the hip might be a permanent lingering thing. At any rate, it's either the hip or the foot. Or both. Or something else we don't know about. Smile

5thmantheme wrote:
Hartley and Zealous are improved.

I agree Hartley has improved, but only slightly. Zellous appears to me to be the exact same player she was last year.

5thmantheme wrote:
Coleman got her groove back.

I think it was far too small of a sample base to be convinced of this. And exactly how good is she with her groove (this is a serious question; I am relatively ignorant about her history before the Liberty)?

5thmantheme wrote:
Zahui's had her best season.

I agree; she can now be considered a true bench player.

5thmantheme wrote:
Might get a tasty junior biscuit next year for the effort too.

No doubt about this, and unfortunately, I think that's the silveriest lining this cloud has.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 07/13/18 10:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYSports56 wrote:
Hi 5thmantheme, love your optimism, but I'm not sure I agree, or at the very least I think you are overrating the importance of some of this.

5thmantheme wrote:
Prince and Stokes need to be at 100%.

How do we know they're not 100% now? Prince seems to me to be the same player she's always been for the Liberty. And sadly, a 100% healthy Stokes has been the exception rather than the rule since her rookie season. With the exception of a few teases, Kiah hasn't been an offensive factor since she injured her hip. I worry that the hip might be a permanent lingering thing. At any rate, it's either the hip or the foot. Or both. Or something else we don't know about. Smile

5thmantheme wrote:
Hartley and Zealous are improved.

I agree Hartley has improved, but only slightly. Zellous appears to me to be the exact same player she was last year.

5thmantheme wrote:
Coleman got her groove back.

I think it was far too small of a sample base to be convinced of this. And exactly how good is she with her groove (this is a serious question; I am relatively ignorant about her history before the Liberty)?

5thmantheme wrote:
Zahui's had her best season.

I agree; she can now be considered a true bench player.

5thmantheme wrote:
Might get a tasty junior biscuit next year for the effort too.

No doubt about this, and unfortunately, I think that's the silveriest lining this cloud has.


PM sent your way.



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NYSports56



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PostPosted: 07/15/18 5:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I already made a joke about the ad on this website that said "Kia Clearance Sale," but just now, I saw an ad here for an auto dealership actually named Liberty Kia. I can't imagine how that could have been deliberately planned, so wow, what a coincidence.

So this isn't completely off topic, on today's game:

Kia Vaughn had her best defensive game of the season, and her offensive game was on too.

Kiah Stokes showed her offensive side for the first time in a long time.

Kia Nurse was on the court in the first half during the time that the Sky got back in the game with their big run. She was virtually invisible during this time. I remember she came into the game...and then I didn't notice her once during the action.


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PostPosted: 07/15/18 9:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYSports56 wrote:
I already made a joke about the ad on this website that said "Kia Clearance Sale," but just now, I saw an ad here for an auto dealership actually named Liberty Kia. I can't imagine how that could have been deliberately planned, so wow, what a coincidence.



'they' use keywords from the page to determine which ads to run...so it's no coincidence.



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PostPosted: 07/15/18 9:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If Boyd maintains the rest of her game and can raise her scoring to 9 or 10 ppg she will be a top 3 PG next year, OK top 5.


NYSports56



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PostPosted: 07/15/18 9:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
NYSports56 wrote:
I already made a joke about the ad on this website that said "Kia Clearance Sale," but just now, I saw an ad here for an auto dealership actually named Liberty Kia. I can't imagine how that could have been deliberately planned, so wow, what a coincidence.


'they' use keywords from the page to determine which ads to run...so it's no coincidence.


Ahh, that explains it; thanks. I wonder why I get so many Buick ads in addition to the Kia ads?


NYSports56



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PostPosted: 07/15/18 9:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There ought to be a rule that allows the Liberty to bring in Herb Williams when the Liberty are up by 20 late in the 4th quarter. Very Happy


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PostPosted: 07/18/18 4:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's a hard road ahead for the Liberty in the last third of the season. 12 games left: five at home, seven on the road. There's a four-game homestand (Indiana, Seattle, L.A., Atlanta) followed by a season-ending four-game road trip (L.A., Las Vegas, Seattle, Phoenix).

Only two games left against losing teams (Indiana at home, Las Vegas on the road). The other 10 games include two against Seattle, two against L.A., one against Phoenix, and one against Minnesota.

If New York were to go 6-6 in the remaining games (I expect worse), they'd finish 13-21 as opposed to last year's 22-12.



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PostPosted: 07/19/18 3:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Flipping my draft list.

We need K. Brown or McCowan, our post rotation isn't cutting it.

Come on 24% of getting a top two pick from the four spot next season.


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PostPosted: 07/19/18 8:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

J-Spoon wrote:
Flipping my draft list.

We need K. Brown or McCowan, our post rotation isn't cutting it.

Come on 24% of getting a top two pick from the four spot next season.


Barring someone like Ionescu coming out, you envision those 2 almost definitely being the top 2 picks right? If so, that’s been my thought too, just given that Chicago and Indiana both need post help and Vegas will most certainly draft a dominant C if they have the chance. Chicago has Gabby Williams as trade bait for a post player. But even in those scenarios the two post players wouldn’t get past #3, which mathematically we cannot reach.



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PostPosted: 07/19/18 8:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Katie Smith on Kia Nurse:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theuconnblog.com/platform/amp/2018/7/13/17567346/new-york-liberty-head-coach-katie-smith-interview-kia-nurse

I found a few things about this annoying. First off, the references to “film”. It makes you wonder how often the NY team actually scouted in person the #1 team in the nation which just happens to be in the same region as the NY team. That doesn’t mean they didn’t. But Katie doesn’t say they looked at Nurse in person. Which would lead one to believe they looked at her more on film. Not blaming Katie for that. First off I could be misunderstanding. Secondly who knows if they were even in a position to scout as they were in years past, given the tumultuous offseason.

But then she says Nurse’s speed and penetration ability didn’t jump out on film. And again, I’d guess a few other teams thought the same or else she wouldn’t have lasted till 10. But it’s still a head-scratcher because I thought both were evident based on what I saw as well as the physical prototype. With the wider lane and defensive 3, driving lanes are more readily found in the WNBA than in college. Look at A’ja Wilson’s WNBA dominance as evidence. But with Nurse there’s the evident strength and mobility along with the long arms and legs. All were indicators of someone who had more penetration ability than she displayed in college. And I’m not trying to paint myself in a certain way because I thought these things. Last year on here I said something about Tyler Scaife being very good. Which now appears absurd. However, hearing the head coach (and possibly the GM, lol) speaking about a player’s attributes this way is still in my eyes troubling.

Don’t get me wrong. I appreciate the honesty. And I know there’s parts of the equation that are likely not her fault. But not only do I question the inaccuracy of the scouting report itself. I also wonder about her assessment of Nurse’s talent today given the playing time she’s gotten and who has gotten it in her place.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 07/19/18 8:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe Smith didn't think Nurse would be available at #10? Most mocks had Nurse going #9 to Connecticut.



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PostPosted: 07/19/18 9:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Some of the best WNBA scouts in the world do it entirely through video. Wink



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PostPosted: 07/19/18 9:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Maybe Smith didn't think Nurse would be available at #10? Most mocks had Nurse going #9 to Connecticut.


Pretty sure she had said that they knew where players would fall based on what the word on the street was. From agents, etc.



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PostPosted: 07/19/18 9:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Some of the best WNBA scouts in the world do it entirely through video. Wink


I’m sure the economics of it make traveling somewhat cost prohibitive. But I’ll say if there’s one thing that shows better in person than on video, it’s speed. Just struck me as strange to hear that when you’re talking about a place in the same geographic region.



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PostPosted: 07/20/18 12:39 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
J-Spoon wrote:
Flipping my draft list.

We need K. Brown or McCowan, our post rotation isn't cutting it.

Come on 24% of getting a top two pick from the four spot next season.


Barring someone like Ionescu coming out, you envision those 2 almost definitely being the top 2 picks right? If so, that’s been my thought too, just given that Chicago and Indiana both need post help and Vegas will most certainly draft a dominant C if they have the chance. Chicago has Gabby Williams as trade bait for a post player. But even in those scenarios the two post players wouldn’t get past #3, which mathematically we cannot reach.


Yes Indy and Chicago should be one/two in the draft order and I can't see either passing on the two bigs, and with LV still as the 3rd lottery team we are stuck at 4th and I can't see LV passing on either McCowan or Brown (McCowan next to Wilson would be an amazing front court for Bill for the next 5 years).

ATM no Ionescu

1. Indy Brown
2. Chi McCowan
3. LV Durr
4. NY Ogunbowale or KLS

There is one small glimmer for NY to move up to 3rd worst two year combined record, which would be for LV to climb into the playoffs and for one of Minny or Conn to fall to being the fourth lottery team. Both Minny had a better record than us last year and Conn was just below us so with this yers wins added they would have a better 2 year combined record than us and we would increase our odds to get into the top 2 and if we landed 3 we could pray for Ionesu to come out and still land a big or Ionescu. So our new hope is rooting for Laimbeer and the Aces and rooting against either Minn or Conn. (Unfortunately if Atl fell into the lottery we would still have a better two year record since we have a 10 game lead on them from last season and if they win 10 more games than us they'll be in the playoffs so Atl falling to the lottery doesn't help).

The other option if we land at 3 or 4 and the bigs are gone (and no Ionescu) would be to trade down, maybe to 6 or 7 and target B. Turner or Megbegor, or trade the pick for a more established post (if we stay in win now Charles window of opportunity mode).

Now if we do sneak into the top 2 and get Brown or McCowan things might not be so bad

Boyd/Hartley
Nurse/Prince
Zellous/Raincock-Ekunwe
Charles/Zahui B
Brown or McCowan/Stokes

2nd round pick, free agent


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PostPosted: 07/20/18 11:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I can tell you this much. My thinking has changed regarding the draft in one particular way. I'm so tired of seeing the rebounding party against us that if the two posts are gone I'd take Collier in a heartbeat...even over Katie Lou, who I have advocated for. Collier would unequivocally now be my third choice. Over Durr. Over Arike. Over everyone else. Yes, that means I've changed my mind, but if the Libs are going to get back to being successful, priority one is rebounding. That will also help their woeful defensive numbers get better. Not to mention I like Collier from a defensive standpoint too.

Some people see Collier as more of a 4 spot player. I don't. I see her as being able to be a 3 spot player in the WNBA from the moment she steps on the floor. She's just been in a position where she's HAD to play inside for UConn because they played a lot of their minutes without a true center. But, there's no questioning she has enough of a face-up game (something that will likely develop more this year now that UConn has a top 6'4" recruit coming in) to be functional at SF in the WNBA. And, like Stevens and Nurse, I think the wider lane and spacing in the WNBA will help her be impactful right away offensively. Additionally, there will be instances where if Katie wants to do that small lineup, you could put Collier at the 4 spot and it would actually work. At 6'1" 180 she'd be a good matchup to the Jessica Brelands out there...who pretty much owned us last night. I'd like Collier from a strength and length perspective against taller finesse posts too. Against Dallas this week, when Dallas went with its really big lineup we had Z on Stevens. Total mismatch in favor of Dallas. One of the reasons it was so hard to guard Liz is because we also had to worry about that disproportionate matchup against us. There's only so many mismatches you can defend against. While Collier on Stevens wouldn't have been cartwheel-turning from a matchup perspective, watching UConn-South Carolina in the tournament last year, I saw Collier stand up quite well physically to bigger players in the paint. She's strong.

In fact, if Vegas winds up picking ahead of NY...even if they wind up picking 1 or 2, I wouldn't be shocked if they took Collier. If there's someone who would love to have that type of swing player to go between the 3 and 4 spots it would be Laimbeer. However, I still think priority one for him would be securing the paint. If Vegas winds up picking after the 2 posts are gone...I'm confident in Collier being his choice. On a team with Wilson and McBride..she'd be the Swin Cash type they lack. I know he likes Coffey, but Coffey is really up and down with that shaky jumper.

Anyway. That's my dialogue for today. I reiterate zero interest in smaller guards. They may help us score a little more, but without something that tips some of these matchup disadvantages our way, it's still going to be a struggle next year.

Building around Nurse and Collier on the wings would be a great start though. Both 6'0" plus. Both long arms. Both athletic. Both strong. Both will rebound. Nurse has the tools of an elite defender. Collier should also be a good one. With Boyd starting to bring it at the PG spot, those would be some terrific building blocks. Tina is still a dominant scorer. Fix the 5 spot via trade or free agency as best as you can. It doesn't have to be anyone great. It just has to be someone who will defend the rim and rebound. Hope Stokes comes into next season healthy and in shape so you get some of that rebounding back. Maybe a Boyette would be available. Her deficiencies have been discussed in the game thread...and I find it unreal that she had 42 blocks as a rookie but only freaking THREE this year. But her rebounds per minute would still pace her higher than any Liberty player this year, including Tina. Collier gives you the flexibility to use those small lineups in a way that would really make life miserable for opponents in terms of speed. She can also rebound. Not only do I think you'd get better fast, but you'd be building on something that has been a WNBA trend in terms of bigger, more athletic and more physical wing players. The 2015-2017 Liberty were deficient in that area, and they won in spite of it. The 2019 Liberty would stand out in that area with the addition of Collier. Added bonus, she'd have that chemistry with Nurse.



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PostPosted: 07/20/18 12:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Re Collier as a rebounder in the WNBA:

Both Collier and Gabby Williams averaged 7.4 rebounds per game last season on UConn. How good a rebounder has Gabby Williams been at the 4/3 in the WNBA this season? This may not be exactly predictive for Collier, but it's something to consider.

Collier is a very good rebounder for her height, especially against AAC tomato cans, but is her height sufficient for the WNBA? I don't know, but I wouldn't count on her to be a prolific rebounder in the pros.

KLS is a significantly more versatile shooting threat, from all over the court, than Collier. And she's also two inches taller. Since we're speculating on outside shooting improvement for Collier in the W, perhaps it would be equally valid to speculate on rebounding improvement for KLS.
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PostPosted: 07/20/18 1:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If CT ends up in the lottery at #3, I don't see them taking a center. Jonquel Jones is already under-utilized sitting on the bench behind Chiney. Bringing in another center would just add to the problem. I suppose they could trade the pick, but I don't see any team out there that needs a center and also has something to trade back that CT needs. They're already deep everywhere except maybe SF. In that case, the Sun might as well take Samuelson to challenge Stricklen. Or maybe they can take Durr to compete with Courtney Williams. Either way, it's better than taking a center and then hoping for a trade that may never happen. So, if Liberty fans want a center, root for Ionescu to come out early and for LVA to catch CT.

As for Collier, I like her but who is going to make the outside shots for NY? Napheesa is alright shooting the occasional jumpshot or wide-open three, but do you want her taking 10 jumpshots per game? To me, she's more of an Allisha Gray type (although Collier is more paint oriented) who does a little of everything but doesn't have enough shooting ability or elusiveness to be a number 2 option in the WNBA. Even if you did want Collier to be a big scorer, then it would be mostly under the basket or on short jumpers in the lane, reminiscent of early Sophia Young. However, you would still need someone to make outside shots. The problem with having a non-shooter like Boyd at PG is that you have to compensate by having reliable shooters elsewhere. Assuming Nurse can fill one of those slots at SG -- and she's more of a standstill spot-up shooter -- you'd still need another one. Preferably someone who can shoot off the dribble or at least shoot off a catch on movement. It's not going to be Tina and it's unlikely to be the center, so it has to be the SF. Consequently, I think New York has to go for Samuelson or move Nurse to SF and draft Durr instead.

As far as rebounding goes, a lot of the problem for NY is being undersized at three positions almost every game: 6-3 at C, 5-10 at SF, 5-9 at SG. You can somewhat get away with being small if your players are quick and athletic, but Vaughn, Zahui, and Prince don't fit that description. Stokes, Sugar, and Z can somewhat fight back, but if the group overall is small it eventually catches up with you. However, if you have 6-3 Samuelson and 6-0 Nurse at the wings, and if the Liberty can get a serviceable center 6-5 or bigger, then the likelihood of being overwhelmed is greatly reduced. Remember when Russell was here for the first two games? The team seemed to play better when she was on the court even though Mercedes was putting up almost nothing on the stat sheet. The reason is that Russell at least provided a big physical obstacle to the opposing players. Last night, Boyette was simply reaching over Liberty players like they were children. There was no skill involved -- just pure size. If NY simply had someone bigger to get in her way, that would have helped.



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PostPosted: 07/20/18 2:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Re Collier as a rebounder in the WNBA:

Both Collier and Gabby Williams averaged 7.4 rebounds per game last season on UConn. How good a rebounder has Gabby Williams been at the 4/3 in the WNBA this season? This may not be exactly predictive for Collier, but it's something to consider.

Collier is a very good rebounder for her height, especially against AAC tomato cans, but is her height sufficient for the WNBA? I don't know, but I wouldn't count on her to be a prolific rebounder in the pros.

KLS is a significantly more versatile shooting threat, from all over the court, than Collier. And she's also two inches taller. Since we're speculating on outside shooting improvement for Collier in the W, perhaps it would be equally valid to speculate on rebounding improvement for KLS.


I’m not saying she’s going to be a double-digit rebounder. I’m thinking 5-6 in 28 minutes per game. As for Gabby Williams and college performance, means nothing. Collier has a much better physical prototype to get rebounds on the pro level. She’s a legit 180, she’s really strong throughout her body type and she has excellent hands. Plus Williams is clearly playing out of position on the pro level.

She also has another year to develop her game in what is likely to be a different senior-year role. I like her shooting form and mid-range game. Both should translate to face-up performance in the WNBA.

As for KLS, I think sheer height in a wider-spaced floor will result in more rebounds. And she should fill out. But Collier is a much better rebounder and will continue to be. KLS is easy to move out of rebounding position. Collier, OTOH, boxes bigger players OUT of rebounding position.

That said, getting KLS would make the Liberty a matchup problem for opponents in a whole different way. Talk about spreading the floor for Tina and Nurse. Matching up to her height would also be a nightmare for opponents on D. Intriguing in its own way. I’d think the Libs would be a potent offensive team in that scenario.



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PostPosted: 07/20/18 3:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If we're at #4 our offense is weak enough that I still think Durr, KLS or Ogunbowale is a perfectly fine pick. All will be double digit scorers in the W and since we don't have any outside of Charles ATM I would be OK going in that direction.

If we are going to reach with #4 I would rather wait and see how B. Turner plays this season and draft a true post than role the dice on a position switch for Collier who is very likely going to be playing all her minutes in the post this season with UConn.


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PostPosted: 07/20/18 3:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wasn’t Collier a small forward coming out of high school who was essentially playing out of position with UConn? I see her more like that. Her high school scouting reports list her at small forward.

Also they now have a top freshman recruit at C and a couple of 6’2” players, one a top 50 recruit and a second who was a top 10 recruit overall...and whose natural position is the 4 spot. Along with an opening on the wing vacated by Nurse. I’d think they would be at least somewhat more likely to have Collier play a more varied role this year.



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PostPosted: 07/20/18 3:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You don't have to rebound if the ball goes through the hoop. KLS, right now, is the pick, if the two bigs go 1 & 2 and NY picks 3.. Just being 6'7" doesn't mean you're going to be a superstar in the WNBA. At this point, Brown to me seems like the better pick of the two bigs.

Do not go by what KLS looks like (the girl next door). She's a lot tougher than she looks. Think more like a smaller rendition of Delle Donne at the SF or even 2 guard as her best options.

As for the two bigs, let's wait and see how they both perform this coming year in college, before we declare them both Queens.


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PostPosted: 07/20/18 4:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

You have to rebound if the other team misses though. The Liberty aren’t a particularly good defensive rebounding team at all. Running around on defense, another thing the Liberty do to cover for matchup disadvantages all over the floor, opens up offensive rebounding opportunities. Getting better defensively would alter that equation as well. And I think that KLS profiles better as a defender in the WNBA than some people do.



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PostPosted: 07/20/18 4:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Wasn’t Collier a small forward coming out of high school who was essentially playing out of position with UConn? I see her more like that. Her high school scouting reports list her at small forward.

Also they now have a top freshman recruit at C and a couple of 6’2” players, one a top 50 recruit and a second who was a top 10 recruit overall...and whose natural position is the 4 spot. Along with an opening on the wing vacated by Nurse. I’d think they would be at least somewhat more likely to have Collier play a more varied role this year.


Yes, as I recall Collier mostly played 2 and 3 as a freshman. I fully expect her to be a 3 in the WNBA. Of course, I also fully expected Gabby Williams to be a 3 in the WNBA. I never thought any pro coach would use her as a 4. Laughing

Collier put up 20 points and 9 rebounds per game as a sophomore. Those are big numbers -- Breanna Stewart never averaged 20 points or 9 rebounds any year at UConn, even against "AAC tomato cans". However, Napheesa has a lot of development to do to achieve that kind of production playing on the perimeter. If she's able to put up numbers anything close to that as a SF this season, then yes, maybe Collier is the answer.



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PostPosted: 07/20/18 4:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Yeah Williams at the 4 is just not going to work. Chicago needs to deal. I think Sugar and our first rounder for Deshields is just what they need. Gabby swings to the 3. Sugar is a nice defensive alternative for Quigley off the bench which Chicago can legitimately use. Libs get DD to go with Nurse. Sky get two lottery picks. Everyone wins.

I’m kidding. Sort of. Maybe.



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