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Tally24
Joined: 14 Feb 2012
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 Posted: 05/09/18 7:55 pm ::: |
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| Is Boyd really worth all the trouble? It has been some time since I saw her play, so I am asking this sincerely. Does what she brings to the table warrant holding up a roster spot? |
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root_thing
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| Posted: 05/09/18 8:48 pm ::: |
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| Tally24 wrote: |
| Is Boyd really worth all the trouble? It has been some time since I saw her play, so I am asking this sincerely. Does what she brings to the table warrant holding up a roster spot? |
Boyd can wreak havoc on both ends of the court when she's on. Brittany forces turnovers in bunches, and she can beat people off the dribble at will. Of NY's three point guards, Boyd has the highest ceiling. That said, it's hard enough developing one starter much less three at the same position. The Liberty will have to choose -- probably sooner rather than later -- a starter. a backup and someone who loses out. NY can use Prince as an emergency PG, and based on recent quotes, Smith seems to think Nurse can play some PG. I'm not sure I agree, but Katie is the one making decisions. So, if Boyd is still weeks away from playing, then it wouldn't shock me if she gets cut.
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Tally24
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| Posted: 05/09/18 9:54 pm ::: |
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| root_thing wrote: |
| Tally24 wrote: |
| Is Boyd really worth all the trouble? It has been some time since I saw her play, so I am asking this sincerely. Does what she brings to the table warrant holding up a roster spot? |
Boyd can wreak havoc on both ends of the court when she's on. Brittany forces turnovers in bunches, and she can beat people off the dribble at will. Of NY's three point guards, Boyd has the highest ceiling. That said, it's hard enough developing one starter much less three at the same position. The Liberty will have to choose -- probably sooner rather than later -- a starter. a backup and someone who loses out. NY can use Prince as an emergency PG, and based on recent quotes, Smith seems to think Nurse can play some PG. I'm not sure I agree, but Katie is the one making decisions. So, if Boyd is still weeks away from playing, then it wouldn't shock me if she gets cut. |
I know this has been discussed before, but the type of injury suffered by Boyd is very detrimental because of her style of play, relying on expolsive athleticism and speed. I do recall her single-handedly forcing the Merc's offense to a halt at the end of one game a few seasons ago. I wish her the best, but it is tough to see an inactive player taking a valuable roster spot from a hopeful up-and-comer. |
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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| Posted: 05/09/18 10:55 pm ::: |
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I've never quite understood the high favor in which Boyd is held by some fans. To me, she is a modestly accomplished guard -- eclipsed in overall skills and accomplishment by Hartley, Prince, Nurse and even Rodgers.
Boyd was ranked #38 by ESPNW HoopGurlz in high school and, unlike some of her Liberty guard teammates, never made a USAB or country national team.
She had a nice career at Cal, averaging 12.6 PPG. However, she was never a good touch shooter, having career averages of 38 FG%, 27 3FG% and 62 FT%.
Boyd's played in only 65 WNBA games, averaging 17 MPG, 6.8 PPG, 3.0 APG, 2.6 RPG, 38 FG%, 21 3FG%, and 72 FT%.
Modest accomplishments.
If Brittany Boyd is stated to be the Liberty's highest ceiling guard, I'd say that's an opinion based a lot more on hope than on history. |
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root_thing
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| Posted: 05/09/18 11:51 pm ::: |
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| GlennMacGrady wrote: |
I've never quite understood the high favor in which Boyd is held by some fans. To me, she is a modestly accomplished guard -- eclipsed in overall skills and accomplishment by Hartley, Prince, Nurse and even Rodgers.
Boyd was ranked #38 by ESPNW HoopGurlz in high school and, unlike some of her Liberty guard teammates, never made a USAB or country national team.
She had a nice career at Cal, averaging 12.6 PPG. However, she was never a good touch shooter, having career averages of 38 FG%, 27 3FG% and 62 FT%.
Boyd's played in only 65 WNBA games, averaging 17 MPG, 6.8 PPG, 3.0 APG, 2.6 RPG, 38 FG%, 21 3FG%, and 72 FT%.
Modest accomplishments.
If Brittany Boyd is stated to be the Liberty's highest ceiling guard, I'd say that's an opinion based a lot more on hope than on history. |
I've watched just about every Liberty game in the last twelve years. That's certainly more reliable than just quoting stuff -- especially HoopGulz high school ratings. First of all, I said Boyd had the highest ceiling of the three point guards, not all guards. If only in flashes, I've seen Boyd dominate stretches of WNBA games. I've never seen Hartley or Lindsay Allen come close to doing that. And if you want to quote numbers, Boyd's 19.1 PER in 2015 was third among PGs behind only Diggins and Vandersloot. Yes, it was only 14.3 minutes per game, but it's not an insignificant sample size either. Then, in Brittany's sophomore season, she only started playing basketball two weeks before camp started because her first wrist surgery in the fall didn't take and she had to have a second one in the winter. After doing nothing basketball-related until two weeks before camp, Boyd was thrust into the starting line-up because Tanisha Wright came back from Europe a handful of days before opening day. Boyd wasn't anywhere near ready to handle heavy minutes, but she got thrown into the fire and struggled badly. But once Brittany got a chance to work off the rust, she played much better. Below is a log I posted before last season. It shows the split between Boyd's first 14 games and her last 19 games of 2016. The difference is significant.
As for last year, Boyd had a ridiculous 39.7 PER in a game and a half before being injured. So, my assessment actually is based on history. Obviously, Boyd is not a finished product and has never shown consistency over a full season. She made major strides in terms of assists and turnovers, but Brittany still needs a lot of work when it comes to shooting. Given how often she gets to the rim, if Boyd only made her layups she would be a very effective player. That's why I refered to her ceiling and not her accomplishments. I also suggested that Boyd might get cut. Does that sound like someone projecting solely on hope?
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toad455
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| Posted: 05/10/18 12:25 pm ::: |
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| Hartley and Zahui B ate officially back in camp. So does someone (2players) have to be cut today if they stand at 17 now with only R Allen, Prince and Vaughn the only ones not in camp?
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Shades
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| Posted: 05/10/18 5:34 pm ::: |
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| Liberty waive Leslie Robinson and Kolby Morgan.
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Tally24
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| Posted: 05/10/18 5:36 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| Liberty waive Leslie Robinson and Kolby Morgan. |
Faris fights to see another day.  |
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toad455
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| Posted: 05/10/18 5:52 pm ::: |
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| Shades wrote: |
| Liberty waive Leslie Robinson and Kolby Morgan. |
No surprise. Curious when R. Allen is scheduled to arrive? Others looks like we'll be at the current 15 until next week.
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toad455
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| Posted: 05/10/18 6:07 pm ::: |
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| Next round should be Schimmel, Murphy & R. Allen. I just don't see R. Allen with much of a chance with Coleman on the team now. Gray hangs on due to her double-double vs. LA on Tuesday.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 05/10/18 7:20 pm ::: |
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Regarding Boyd, I agree with Root. Yes, Boyd has a raw game and no she largely has not shot well. However, her transition play and energy has singlehandedly helped us, particularly in 2015. Point guards take time to develop. The Achilles injury makes her short-term physical ability murky, but articles I've read suggest that youth helps in Achilles injury recovery,
Separately I think people are sleeping on Nurse and her potential effect on the Libs. First off, people need to understand one basic fact. UConn players are ready for the pro game from the intangible point of view immediately. And I'm not talking just the stars. Bria Hartley played about 28 mpg on a 16-18 team as a rookie. Kiah Stokes played about 25 mpg on a top-seeded team as a rookie. Furthermore, Nurse has certain skills that were to an extent untapped on a team where she could catch and shoot as a beneficiary of other talented players creating for her. Her speed is high end (Katie Smith described her as having "jets") and she has length and very good leaping ability. Her physical ability isn't freakish like Gabby Williams, which may be why it went under the radar, but it's still quite good. Plus she's an outstanding shooter (we need that). She a 6'0" wing with length (we need that). She's got the physical ability to be a factor as a mid-range player (we need that). And she's got the floor game (we need that). These are ALL things that we didn't have last year in any single perimeter player in combination.
I know the league is more competitive and there's returning and new talent everywhere. But I think people are seriously underestimating NY this year (many people have them finishing outside the playoffs), and how a player with this type of skill set can potentially impact the roster given that she has so many attributes they otherwise lacked last year.
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Happycappie25
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root_thing
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| Posted: 05/11/18 10:03 am ::: |
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| Faris fits what NY does, but at SG/SF they just added Nurse and Coleman to Zellous, Prince, and Rodgers. The Liberty already have a crowding problem that will require playing people out of position to get everybody on the court. That means using Coleman at 4 or Prince at 1 or Nurse at 1 while Zellous is already out of position at 3. Prince being out actually relieves the congestion, but you still wouldn't need Faris because Hartley can play SG. I also think management would bring back Rebecca Allen rather than keep Faris since Bec is a true SF, which is a greater need.
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toad455
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| Posted: 05/11/18 12:19 pm ::: |
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| Keeping Faris, R. Allen, Schimmel or even Gray all depends on what the plan is for Prince and Boyd. If neither are suspended, none of them are making the roster. That last spot will be between Zahui B and Russell basically as they'll only keep 4 posts.
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root_thing
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| Posted: 05/11/18 1:48 pm ::: |
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There was talk on this board about temporary suspensions being eliminated. I haven't been able to verify this change despite several searches. However, if true that makes a huge difference in how hiatuses are handled. Players would have to be suspended for the whole year, which means missing an entire season of both salary and basketball. In Boyd's case, I see no justification for unilateral suspension by the Liberty. She was injured while playing for them. The only way the team could suspend Britanny is if she asked for time off. Why would Boyd do that and forgo payment unless the Liberty offer her something in return? Would you suspend Boyd while simultaneously giving her a contract extension like they did with Prince in 2016? It seems unwarranted in this case.
If Boyd and the Liberty have a good enough relationship so that the team feels comfortable asking her to take a voluntary suspension, then wouldn't it be simpler to make a pact with Brittany to later re-sign with the team after being cut? It's better for Boyd because she'll get paid at least until she's recovered and ready to play. Then, Brittany can re-sign with the Liberty or another team if both sides agree to part ways. Just two seasons ago, NY cut Swin Cash for 3 games because the late acquisition of Zahui B. pushed them over the salary cap. It was known that Swin would re-sign with the Liberty, so there is recent precedent for this maneuver.
As far as Prince goes, we don't know anything right now. She could be 100% ready for opening day. However, if Piph is injured enough to miss the whole season, then it might make more sense to simply terminate her contract. This is me with my cold-blooded businessman's hat on.  Players generally aren't effective their first season back from a serious injury, so the likely earliest date we'll see Prince at 100% is in 2020. By then she'll be 32. NY has plenty of 2-guard alternatives, so why not cut ties? Just take the money (salary cap room) and run. Of course, there's a good chance that Prince is actually healthy and this entire discussion is moot.
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J-Spoon
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| Posted: 05/11/18 2:12 pm ::: |
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If Prince or Boyd end up missing the season I do not think it will be to the benefit of Faris, Murphy, Schimmel or even R. Allen. I think NY would use the last spot on a 5th post, so Boyd or Prince missing the season would open up a spot for Zahui B or Gray IMO, and result in more minutes for Nurse, Hartley, Coleman and L. Allen.
Hartley/L. Allen/Boyd or Prince
Rodgers/Nurse
Zellous/Coleman
Charles/Zahui B or Gray
Stokes/Vaughn/Russell
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toad455
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| Posted: 05/11/18 3:44 pm ::: |
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| Agreed about carrying a 5th post if the can suspend Prince or Boyd. Otherwise it looks like Zahui B will get cut.
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toad455
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| Posted: 05/12/18 4:27 am ::: |
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Vaughn won't be with the Liberty in time for their opener, so if no one is suspended, we'll only have 9 players available on May 20.
PG: Hartley/LAllen
SG: Rodgers/Nurse
SF: Zellous/Coleman
PF: Charles
C: Stokes/Russell
IR: Boyd/Prince
N/A: Vaughn
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 05/12/18 9:11 am ::: |
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| Not likely time off. She missed a bunch of playoff games in a row for Kursk.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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| Posted: 05/12/18 9:13 am ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
Vaughn won't be with the Liberty in time for their opener, so if no one is suspended, we'll only have 9 players available on May 20.
PG: Hartley/LAllen
SG: Rodgers/Nurse
SF: Zellous/Coleman
PF: Charles
C: Stokes/Russell
IR: Boyd/Prince
N/A: Vaughn |
If two players have a long-term injury, isn't a replacement allowed? I thought that was a rule change last year? I could be wrong though.
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NYL_WNBA_FAN
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root_thing
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| Posted: 05/12/18 10:20 am ::: |
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| NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote: |
| toad455 wrote: |
Vaughn won't be with the Liberty in time for their opener, so if no one is suspended, we'll only have 9 players available on May 20.
PG: Hartley/LAllen
SG: Rodgers/Nurse
SF: Zellous/Coleman
PF: Charles
C: Stokes/Russell
IR: Boyd/Prince
N/A: Vaughn |
If two players have a long-term injury, isn't a replacement allowed? I thought that was a rule change last year? I could be wrong though. |
Yes, I've mentioned this a couple of times already. It's a little out of the ordinary to start the season with this situation, so I'm not totally sure of the rules. As far as I can tell, the injuries have to overlap for a minimum of two games plus three weeks to qualify. Here is the verbiage:
| Quote: |
Section 4. Hardship Exceptions to the Salary Cap.
There shall be the following exceptions to the rule that a Team’s Team Salary may not exceed the Salary Cap:
(a) Hardship.
(1) If, during a WNBA Regular Season, a Team with one (1) player who is unable to play due to injury, illness or other condition for a minimum of three additional weeks from the date of the requested Exception (the “First Injured Player”) has an additional player (the “Disabled Player”) who suffers a Disabling Injury, Illness, or Condition (as defined below), the Team may sign one Replacement Player to a Replacement Contract to replace such Disabled Player.
(2) For purposes of this Section 4, Disabling Injury, Illness, or Condition means any injury, illness, or condition that has rendered the Disabled Player unable to play for a minimum of two (2) consecutive Regular Season games and will thereafter render the Disabled Player unable to play for a minimum period of three (3) additional weeks (regardless of whether, once the Disabled Player has missed two (2) consecutive Regular Season games, there are less than three (3) weeks remaining in the WNBA Season).
(3) A Hardship Exception will arise on the date it is granted by the League Office and will expire seven (7) days after it arises.
(4) The determination of whether a player has suffered a Disabling Injury, Illness, or Condition shall be made by a physician designated by the WNBA (the “WNBA Physician”) in consultation with the Players Association, and such determination shall be final, conclusive, and unappealable. The WNBA shall advise the Players Association of the determination of the WNBA Physician within one (1) business day of such determination. The cost of the WNBA Physician will be borne by the WNBA Team seeking the Exception.
(5) In no event shall a Team be entitled to an Exception pursuant to this Section 4(a), unless the First Injured Player on the date it applies for the Exception, in the determination of the WNBA Physician, is unable to play for a minimum of three (3) additional weeks from that date. The determination of the WNBA Physician shall be final, conclusive, and unappealable. The cost of the WNBA physician will be borne by the WNBA Team seeking the Exception.
(6) If a Team requests an Exception pursuant to this Section 4(a), the player with respect to whom the request is made, and the First Injured Player, shall cooperate in the processing of the request, including by appearing (if necessary) at the scheduled place and time for examination by the WNBA Physician.
(7) Notwithstanding a determination by the WNBA Physician that a player has suffered a Disabling Injury, Illness, or Condition, such player, upon recovering from her injury, illness, or condition, may begin play. In such event, however, the Team shall immediately terminate the Replacement Contract of the Replacement Player.
(8 ) The Hardship Exception is available only to the Team with which the Disabled Player was under Contract at the time her Disabling Injury, Illness, or Condition occurred.
(9) If a Team makes a request for a Hardship Exception to replace a Disabled Player pursuant to this Section 4(a) and such request is denied, the Team shall not be permitted to make any subsequent request for an Exception to replace the same player unless fifteen (15) days have passed since the first request was denied and the Team establishes that the subsequent request is based on a new injury or an aggravation of the same injury. |
Under Toad's scenario, you would need to get a replacement post player even though NY is missing two guards. There's enough versatility in the remaining players to cover the three perimeter positions without additional help.
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