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scrappy



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PostPosted: 09/08/17 1:17 pm    ::: WNBA 2018 Reply Reply with quote

with teams already have their 2018 threads. it's only fair to have a 2018 for the league.

-first thing first, get rid of the one-game playoff series. this is not 1996 year of the one-game playoff.

-stop making stupid decision and fire all those who made these decisions.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 09/08/17 1:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think game scheduling needs to be improved. I don't know how it is with other teams but the Dream usually disappear for 3 - 4 weeks (maybe one home game) and then we have a bunch together for 3-4 weeks. Would be better if we could have a roughly equal number of home games each month. Also we tend to play the same teams in bunches. We had 3 Sky games the first part of the season and 3 Lynx games the last part of the season, for ex. Kind of sucks to see the same team only a few weeks apart.


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PostPosted: 09/08/17 1:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

They actually had one game playoffs in the first round in 1999, when the league had 12 teams. Of course they only took six teams to the playoffs then...



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Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 09/08/17 1:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
They actually had one game playoffs in the first round in 1999, when the league had 12 teams. Of course they only took six teams to the playoffs then...

Maybe that's the solution, Pilight. The league needs to go to a six team playoff format. The first round is a three game series.



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Hawkeye



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PostPosted: 09/08/17 1:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm fine with 8 going, but just stop with the gimicky one game playoffs and idiotic double byes. Eight teams, put em in the brackets and play.

I would LOVE to see each round a best of 7, but wishful thinking, I know.


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PostPosted: 09/08/17 2:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
They actually had one game playoffs in the first round in 1999, when the league had 12 teams. Of course they only took six teams to the playoffs then...


That produced one of my favorite games ever. Narchs at Sparks. They were up huge at the half, then Lisa and the gang destroyed their hopes and dreams in the second half. 😍😘💪👊


PUmatty



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PostPosted: 09/08/17 2:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Cut the foul limit from 6 to 5.


Randy



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PostPosted: 09/08/17 2:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The one and done isn't going away unless they drop down from 8. The Mercury, Lynx, and Liberty are all playing in alternate arena - and these are the teams that fill up the seats during the regular season. So teams don't want to lock up arena dates for the possible playoff game or games. The marginal teams have such poor playoff numbers (even worse than regular season) that the owners simply don't want to lose money on another game. WNBA ticket sales and fan base are built for regular seasons not playoffs when you don't even know when or where you might play until a few days ahead of time.


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PostPosted: 09/08/17 2:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm curious how early they'll start the 2018 season with the World Championships in late September.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 09/08/17 2:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
The one and done isn't going away unless they drop down from 8. The Mercury, Lynx, and Liberty are all playing in alternate arena - and these are the teams that fill up the seats during the regular season. So teams don't want to lock up arena dates for the possible playoff game or games. The marginal teams have such poor playoff numbers (even worse than regular season) that the owners simply don't want to lose money on another game. WNBA ticket sales and fan base are built for regular seasons not playoffs when you don't even know when or where you might play until a few days ahead of time.

That's it exactly. We can complain all we want about the 1 and dones, but the reason we have them in the first place is because people were wanting the semis to be best of 5 along with the finals.

The only way to get rid of the 1 and dones while maintaining the best of fives would be to go to 6 team playoffs. Then the top two teams could have just one bye and the other 4 teams play each other in a best of 3.

Remember, all of the changes were done so as to try and create the best finals possible. And with a 1 season sample size, this format worked. Last years finals were the best ever.

But for those who want 8 teams and to get rid of the one and dones, what is your solution? What are you willing to get rid of to make it happen?



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 09/08/17 2:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Cut the foul limit from 6 to 5.

In theory I like this idea. But.

The refs need to change how they call games then. They need to up the threshold for what constitutes a foul. There are some games this year that were called so tight that it would have been the benches playing each other by the end. 6 fouls gives some leeway for bad calls and poor officiating, 5 fouls would cause the refs to have even more impact upon the game.



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Queenie



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PostPosted: 09/08/17 3:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
pilight wrote:
They actually had one game playoffs in the first round in 1999, when the league had 12 teams. Of course they only took six teams to the playoffs then...

Maybe that's the solution, Pilight. The league needs to go to a six team playoff format. The first round is a three game series.


I like this. Right now, we have the absurdity of it being harder to miss the playoffs than to make them, which means that our first round included two teams under .500.

Give the top two a single bye. 3 plays 6, 4 plays 5. If a three-game series in the first round is too much to ask, borrow from the European system and have a home-and-home set (not sure if using aggregate score as the first or second factor would be better).



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pilight



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PostPosted: 09/08/17 3:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
pilight wrote:
They actually had one game playoffs in the first round in 1999, when the league had 12 teams. Of course they only took six teams to the playoffs then...

Maybe that's the solution, Pilight. The league needs to go to a six team playoff format. The first round is a three game series.


I suggested that almost immediately after they announced the new format



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 09/08/17 3:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
Rock Hard wrote:
pilight wrote:
They actually had one game playoffs in the first round in 1999, when the league had 12 teams. Of course they only took six teams to the playoffs then...

Maybe that's the solution, Pilight. The league needs to go to a six team playoff format. The first round is a three game series.


I like this. Right now, we have the absurdity of it being harder to miss the playoffs than to make them, which means that our first round included two teams under .500.

Give the top two a single bye. 3 plays 6, 4 plays 5. If a three-game series in the first round is too much to ask, borrow from the European system and have a home-and-home set (not sure if using aggregate score as the first or second factor would be better).

Please don't go to two-legged aggregate matchups. Speaking as a European, you haven't known basketball absurdity until you've been sat there at the end of a first-leg when it ends in a tie, with no one knowing whether they're supposed to play overtime or not (you're not, by the way).

I've been saying for years that it was ridiculous that two-thirds of the league made the playoffs, but I still think that if they were going to change that they would've done it already. The owners clearly seem to want everyone to be in 'playoff contention' for as long as possible. That's part of where the one-game playoffs become a compromise - you get rid of these shitty teams who shouldn't have been there in the first place as quickly as possible.

I don't actually mind the one-game playoffs in the first round. A one-off loss eliminating teams 5-8 doesn't seem all that unfair to me. But I don't like that 3 and 4 can be out in one game. That's why I keep bringing up the modified double-elimination concept.



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Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 09/08/17 4:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Spark4Life wrote:
pilight wrote:
They actually had one game playoffs in the first round in 1999, when the league had 12 teams. Of course they only took six teams to the playoffs then...


That produced one of my favorite games ever. Narchs at Sparks. They were up huge at the half, then Lisa and the gang destroyed their hopes and dreams in the second half. 😍😘💪👊






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scrappy



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PostPosted: 09/08/17 5:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:

Remember, all of the changes were done so as to try and create the best finals possible. And with a 1 season sample size, this format worked. Last years finals were the best ever.


how did the one and done result in that best final ever?! did those two final teams upset all the way to the final as they were the 7th and 8th seed? come on, next thing you're gonna say this year's final is the result of the solar eclipse. Rolling Eyes



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PostPosted: 09/08/17 5:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

No matter what you do to the playoffs, somebody is not going to be happy. Not enough playoff teams, too many playoff teams. Not enough lottery teams, too many lottery teams. My team lost a one game series, I want a three game series. My team lost a three game series, I want a 5 game series. My team lost a 5 game series, now a want a 7 game series.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 09/08/17 6:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Exactly right. One and done is how everything is decided in the NFL and tne NCAA tournament. Nobody seems to complain that's a bad system or that it's unfair.


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PostPosted: 09/08/17 6:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm good with the current playoff format - at least until fans actually start watching the games, be that in person or on tv.
My only issue is timing. The elimination rounds should be closer together. Part of the advantage of finishing 3rd/4th should be that your opponent is a little fatigued from their previous game. Right now this 4 day spacing means that they're well rested and well tuned. I think it should be a 2 or 3 day break. That would also help the 1st/2nd teams, who right now are sitting around getting stale while they wait.



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PostPosted: 09/08/17 9:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The playoff system isn't changing unless ESPN wants it to change.


justintyme



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PostPosted: 09/08/17 10:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

scrappy wrote:
justintyme wrote:

Remember, all of the changes were done so as to try and create the best finals possible. And with a 1 season sample size, this format worked. Last years finals were the best ever.


how did the one and done result in that best final ever?! did those two final teams upset all the way to the final as they were the 7th and 8th seed? come on, next thing you're gonna say this year's final is the result of the solar eclipse. Rolling Eyes

By switching to one and dones they were able to add games to the semis. And the longer a series, the more likely the better team (not necessarily the better record) will win out.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 09/08/17 11:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
scrappy wrote:
justintyme wrote:

Remember, all of the changes were done so as to try and create the best finals possible. And with a 1 season sample size, this format worked. Last years finals were the best ever.


how did the one and done result in that best final ever?! did those two final teams upset all the way to the final as they were the 7th and 8th seed? come on, next thing you're gonna say this year's final is the result of the solar eclipse. Rolling Eyes

By switching to one and dones they were able to add games to the semis. And the longer a series, the more likely the better team (not necessarily the better record) will win out.

Although it also helped lead to thoroughly one-sided semis (because the overmatched Mercury upset the Liberty in the second round). They may want the best teams in the Finals, but they also want the best teams in the semis, when there are also (relatively speaking) lots of eyes on the league. You don't particularly want the Finals preceded by a series of barely watchable blowouts every year.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 09/09/17 2:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
justintyme wrote:
scrappy wrote:
justintyme wrote:

Remember, all of the changes were done so as to try and create the best finals possible. And with a 1 season sample size, this format worked. Last years finals were the best ever.


how did the one and done result in that best final ever?! did those two final teams upset all the way to the final as they were the 7th and 8th seed? come on, next thing you're gonna say this year's final is the result of the solar eclipse. Rolling Eyes

By switching to one and dones they were able to add games to the semis. And the longer a series, the more likely the better team (not necessarily the better record) will win out.

Although it also helped lead to thoroughly one-sided semis (because the overmatched Mercury upset the Liberty in the second round). They may want the best teams in the Finals, but they also want the best teams in the semis, when there are also (relatively speaking) lots of eyes on the league. You don't particularly want the Finals preceded by a series of barely watchable blowouts every year.

I agree, but it is a bit of "pick your poison". While upsets can cause a weaker team to pass on to the semis, it is likely more preferable to the league to have a one-sided semi than a one-sided final. The finals just have nore coverage and thus eyes on them than another other round of the playoffs.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 09/09/17 3:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Cut the foul limit from 6 to 5.

In theory I like this idea. But.

The refs need to change how they call games then. They need to up the threshold for what constitutes a foul. There are some games this year that were called so tight that it would have been the benches playing each other by the end. 6 fouls gives some leeway for bad calls and poor officiating, 5 fouls would cause the refs to have even more impact upon the game.


The same players managed not to foul out frequently in college with 5 fouls per game. And I haven't heard of them frequently fouling out in their 5 foul European play. With regard to the WNBA being a much more "physical" league, when confronted by the lament of the play-by-play announcer that "there was nothing you could do about the physicality inside", Geno Auriemma matter-of-factly said "just call the foul. They'll adjust".


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PostPosted: 09/09/17 8:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
justintyme wrote:
scrappy wrote:
justintyme wrote:

Remember, all of the changes were done so as to try and create the best finals possible. And with a 1 season sample size, this format worked. Last years finals were the best ever.


how did the one and done result in that best final ever?! did those two final teams upset all the way to the final as they were the 7th and 8th seed? come on, next thing you're gonna say this year's final is the result of the solar eclipse. Rolling Eyes

By switching to one and dones they were able to add games to the semis. And the longer a series, the more likely the better team (not necessarily the better record) will win out.

Although it also helped lead to thoroughly one-sided semis (because the overmatched Mercury upset the Liberty in the second round). They may want the best teams in the Finals, but they also want the best teams in the semis, when there are also (relatively speaking) lots of eyes on the league. You don't particularly want the Finals preceded by a series of barely watchable blowouts every year.


Agree which again brings up the idea go to 6 teams...3-5-5 no one wants 7 and 8 who almost always is below 500 I believe by math 8 HAS to be below 500 every year...to be in the finals...at least last year PHX had a ton of talent that underachieved...but there could be some stinkers and that's what ESPN wants to avoid.

I agree Playoff revenue varies city to city...BUT...You squander Opportunity when you get rid of home games...could you imagine Seattle last year who's fans buy tickets when the team does well and they make an exciting run back into the playoffs after a long wait and well no gaurenteed home game? That home game would have been a draw.

What I would suggest is maybe rounds 1 and 2 be a single weekend fri-sun neutral site showcase...AAU coaches have kicked this idea around for years...and for the most part I HATE IT...I've seen it flop in the NHL...you get disinterested crowds, and mostly empty seats...ditto these tourneys in College which is more an excuse to get 20somethings a place to let off steam and hit the beach while still playing ball so they cant get in *too* much trouble...BUT if there was a place to do it...IF you insist on not giving home games to each team...THIS would be the way to do it...it's worth a shot.

But first I agree...cut the field to 6 unless you get expansion in the next 2 years and go 3-5-5 easiest solution.

As for Temporary facilities...I blame ESPN for being to rigid...many of these can be solved by moving the date 1 day to the left or right...that seems fair. The Libs this year have to move because its booked for 3 days straight and I know Atlanta moved one because of a week long convention...that's one thing...but some of these venue changes ARE avoidable (the Libs are normally the ones who demand date NOT venue changes and are better for it) and more flexability I think makes sense...or at LEAST use venues that are TV ready...had no problem with ASU...looked good and I saw Sparky and a group of folks that looked like the Pep band in the arena so there was cooperation between the merc and the school...Some of the court adornments looked tacky but that's just asthetics. Ditto game 4 in the galen center which if the announcers didn't blurt it out every 30 seconds NO ONE WOULD HAVE NOTICED...it's been said before...7-10k arenas are a PLUS not a Minus to the WNBA...its when you get arenas that are too old...or rife with Bleachers that most of the W's older fanbase doesn't want to sit in...or look too small or have bad sightlines, that's when it looks bad on TV (like long beach...and what Westchester will likely look like because its built for stage shows not basketball...already reps sweating about Accomidations for STH given most seats are in the upper deck as it's a prewar building)...those make the WNBA look bush league. And when it's a matter of a DAY or even 2 if its midweek...WHY WOULDNT YOU and that's where that frustruation lies.



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