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summertime blues



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PostPosted: 12/22/17 3:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
linkster wrote:
In UConn "where are they now" news Dec 21st was quite a day for former players Ekmark and Butler.

Ekmark hit her first five 3's to spearhead ASU to an early lead and went on to score 23 points (7-10 on 3's) as ASU routed SEC opponent Arkansas 89-43.

Natalie Butler had 35 points (13-16) and 19 rebounds in a loss to AAC's Houston.


Butler has started every game at GMU and is averaging almost a 20/15 double double. Eckmark has started every game at ASU and is fourth in scoring. Sadie Edwards has started every game at USC and is essentially tied for third in scoring.

All these UConn transfers are doing very well on good teams, two of them very near home, and presumably are content with their transfer decisions.

It's always been puzzling to me that UConn doesn't have more transfers, as Geno rarely gives any competitive time to players beyond the top seven or occasionally eight. He also usually seems to make up his mind about the top rotation potential of freshmen very quickly, even before the season begins.

Having interviewed several UConn players while they were in high school or before their first UConn season, I can say that they seem generally unaware of this pattern of bench play at UConn. They all believe that they will get the personal coaching attention at UConn to turn them into great players. I'm never sure whether this statistical unlikelihood is self-confidence or self-delusion, as almost all of these players have been big stars in their high school cocoons.


It was the same way on Pat's old teams at Tennessee. Not a lot of transfers, but those who did leave did well wherever they went. Those who stayed often just wanted tone able to say, "I played for Pat." I suspect it may be the same for some of the more realistic UConn bench-riders.



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linkster



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PostPosted: 12/22/17 4:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Most elite level recruits have highly developed skill sets that involve them having the ball in their hands and very little in the way of playing without the ball or playing defense. At UConn freshmen earn minutes based on their fitting into Geno's offense and defense. All those ball skills take a back seat. Until they show they can operate in UConn's offense they sit. Watch the 3 freshmen who sit play the mop up minutes. They haven't learned yet. But of the 3 I's say 2 will learn and earn playing time. Who? That has more to do with their work habits which are unknown.

Sadie Edwards was a high-ranked recruit who Geno reportedly described as lazy. While she has had a handful of great games at USC they have been scattered among far more mediocre performances. Butler's hands proved to be her problem along with the arrival of Stevens and the lack of a certain grad degree program at Storrs. Ekmark will roam the perimeter at ASU as she gets her law degree.

Beyond school, look at Chong, who defied most by earning a roster spot in the W and who now, playing point in Israel where her high school ball skills have re-emerged she is a leading scorer and star in her league.


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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PostPosted: 12/24/17 1:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
Beyond school, look at Chong, who defied most by earning a roster spot in the W and who now, playing point in Israel where her high school ball skills have re-emerged she is a leading scorer and star in her league.


Thanks, I didn't know that about Chong in the Israeli league. Subjectively, she was one of the two most exciting high school players I've watched in person--36 ppg, 12 apg, and the top four year scorer and three-point shooter in New York State history. She got beat out at UConn by Jefferson and Nurse, and never mentally recovered her confidence until her senior year.

Looking at her Israeli stats, I'd say she's been able to return to her aggressive driving and drawing a huge number of fouls as she did in high school. However, her three-point shooting is way below par.
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 12/24/17 2:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

linkster wrote:
Most elite level recruits have highly developed skill sets that involve them having the ball in their hands and very little in the way of playing without the ball or playing defense. At UConn freshmen earn minutes based on their fitting into Geno's offense and defense. All those ball skills take a back seat. Until they show they can operate in UConn's offense they sit. Watch the 3 freshmen who sit play the mop up minutes. They haven't learned yet. But of the 3 I's say 2 will learn and earn playing time. Who? That has more to do with their work habits which are unknown.


Most, if not all, coaches have a number of players rotting on the bench. Auriemma does go with a little smaller rotation, but he's got USA National Team members out there as starters, so no need to try and win with a fresher rotation. And he doesn't ever have a situation where the top 7 or 8 aren't getting it done and has to go deeper out of frustration or desperation like many coaches do. I don't think that Auriemma's slightly larger disregard for the bench has to be anything other than he's got more talent at the top who are kicking ass 99% of the time. He (like other coaches) likely cares less whether the players sitting out get time - male practice players make them redundant. Playing them is only a courtesy, and he's not alone in being unconcerned about extending it. I think teams using male practice players should be limited in scholarships to 9 maximum for players. Give the other 6 to the male practice players.

Playing time is even worse in volleyball .The rotation players play the whole match even if it is a blowout, due to the "time-never-runs-out" situation. Although they could let the second team go into a match they know they will win 3-0, and at worse case, win it 3-1, but it doesn't happen. I don't know if volleyball uses male practice players, but I haven't heard of it or seen practice pictures with them, so the unused part of the bench may get some satisfaction for helping the team in practice, unlike their WBB counterparts.

Quote:

Sadie Edwards was a high-ranked recruit who Geno reportedly described as lazy. While she has had a handful of great games at USC they have been scattered among far more mediocre performances. Butler's hands proved to be her problem along with the arrival of Stevens and the lack of a certain grad degree program at Storrs. Ekmark will roam the perimeter at ASU as she gets her law degree.

Beyond school, look at Chong, who defied most by earning a roster spot in the W and who now, playing point in Israel where her high school ball skills have re-emerged she is a leading scorer and star in her league.


I am not getting your point. Was Chong lazy at UConn and didn't play defense or fit into the UConn offense and that's why she road the bench for most of hrer career? Or was Chong a very good player: high school superstar who Auriemma chose to sit due to superior players at the same position, who then returned to form after gettng a chance in the pros?




Last edited by tfan on 12/24/17 4:50 pm; edited 15 times in total
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 12/24/17 2:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:

All these UConn transfers are doing very well on good teams, two of them very near home, and presumably are content with their transfer decisions.

It's always been puzzling to me that UConn doesn't have more transfers, as Geno rarely gives any competitive time to players beyond the top seven or occasionally eight. He also usually seems to make up his mind about the top rotation potential of freshmen very quickly, even before the season begins.


It surprises me as well and I think it shows how much these players must value being on a championship/Final Four team with a lot of local and national stature. But with male practice players, Auriemma must not even care whether they transferred or not.

To me, deep bench players should be getting 15 minutes most games since UConn is going to win by 30+ with just the regular rotation. I don't see teams making 20 or 30 point comebacks in the fourth quarter against the UConn reserves, and if they get within 12, put the starters back in.


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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Location: Heisenberg


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PostPosted: 12/24/17 9:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Christmas quiz:

Who are the three UConn players who have recorded more than 1500 points, 500 rebounds and 500 assists?
linkster



Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: 12/24/17 10:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
linkster wrote:
Most elite level recruits have highly developed skill sets that involve them having the ball in their hands and very little in the way of playing without the ball or playing defense. At UConn freshmen earn minutes based on their fitting into Geno's offense and defense. All those ball skills take a back seat. Until they show they can operate in UConn's offense they sit. Watch the 3 freshmen who sit play the mop up minutes. They haven't learned yet. But of the 3 I's say 2 will learn and earn playing time. Who? That has more to do with their work habits which are unknown.


Most, if not all, coaches have a number of players rotting on the bench. Auriemma does go with a little smaller rotation, but he's got USA National Team members out there as starters, so no need to try and win with a fresher rotation. And he doesn't ever have a situation where the top 7 or 8 aren't getting it done and has to go deeper out of frustration or desperation like many coaches do. I don't think that Auriemma's slightly larger disregard for the bench has to be anything other than he's got more talent at the top who are kicking ass 99% of the time. He (like other coaches) likely cares less whether the players sitting out get time - male practice players make them redundant. Playing them is only a courtesy, and he's not alone in being unconcerned about extending it. I think teams using male practice players should be limited in scholarships to 9 maximum for players. Give the other 6 to the male practice players.

Playing time is even worse in volleyball .The rotation players play the whole match even if it is a blowout, due to the "time-never-runs-out" situation. Although they could let the second team go into a match they know they will win 3-0, and at worse case, win it 3-1, but it doesn't happen. I don't know if volleyball uses male practice players, but I haven't heard of it or seen practice pictures with them, so the unused part of the bench may get some satisfaction for helping the team in practice, unlike their WBB counterparts.

Quote:

Sadie Edwards was a high-ranked recruit who Geno reportedly described as lazy. While she has had a handful of great games at USC they have been scattered among far more mediocre performances. Butler's hands proved to be her problem along with the arrival of Stevens and the lack of a certain grad degree program at Storrs. Ekmark will roam the perimeter at ASU as she gets her law degree.

Beyond school, look at Chong, who defied most by earning a roster spot in the W and who now, playing point in Israel where her high school ball skills have re-emerged she is a leading scorer and star in her league.


I am not getting your point. Was Chong lazy at UConn and didn't play defense or fit into the UConn offense and that's why she road the bench for most of hrer career? Or was Chong a very good player: high school superstar who Auriemma chose to sit due to superior players at the same position, who then returned to form after gettng a chance in the pros?


I think I was pointing out that Chong, like a lot of high school stars was used to having the ball in her hands. She had to learn to play without the ball and to play defense before she was going to get significant minutes at UConn. Now that she is playing in a professional league she once again can play in a system in which she can have the ball a lot. She seemed to "get it" at UConn in her 3rd year but then had a ligament problem. She did start most of her senior year so I guess she is an exception to the comment that Geno decides on players in their freshman years.

Actually there are very few UConn players who stick it out for 4 years without having much of a role. Like for example Stokes, who never was a regular starter due to a lack of offense but who played a significant role off the bench. I remember that there were more than a few posters who chuckled when it was suggested she would be a first round pick for the W.

Not all talented players would fit in at Golden State and the same holds with UConn.


GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
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Location: Heisenberg


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PostPosted: 01/13/18 3:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We've been discussing Andra Espinoza-Hunter in the UConn-UCF game thread, but the news of her transfer belongs here.

https://www.lohud.com/story/sports/high-school/lohud-girls-basketball/2018/01/12/girls-basketball-ossining-alumna-andra-espinoza-hunter-transfer-uconn/1030428001/

Quote:
“I just realized UConn wasn’t really a good fit for me,” Espinoza-Hunter said, when reached by phone Friday evening.


Quote:
Espinoza-Hunter said she plans to take a few classes at Westchester Community College and visit schools while figuring out her next step. Ossining head coach Dan Ricci, who coached Espinoza-Hunter for three seasons with the Pride, said his former pupil has plenty of top schools interested in her.


Quote:
Espinoza-Hunter committed to UConn during her sophomore season at Blair Academy, when former Ossining teammate Saniya Chong was still with the Huskies. She was just 14 at the time, and said that the holding off on a commitment likely could have led to finding the right program for her.


She committed as a sophomore but was actually baited and hooked in the 8th grade when Saniya Chong was signing up as a high school senior.

This makes me a little sad, since I've watched AEH at Ossining H.S. and Blair Academy since she was in 7th grade and have interviewed her. Although she was a very good three-point shooter, I was always dubious as to whether she was UConn material because she's not particularly quick nor a good ball handler, until her monster senior year back at Ossining.

I now suspect something was going on that's not being reported. Either she quit or Geno kicked her off the team, or maybe they mutually agreed it wasn't a good fit because she felt like quitting and Geno doesn't want players who want to quit. We can find out after she transfers.

So, this is strike three for Geno with Blair Academy girls. Sadie Edwards and AEH quit/transferred after one semester, Honesty Scott-Grayson spurned a UConn offer in favor of Baylor; and Batouly Camara, maybe strike four, is sitting on the end of Geno's bench, having played 13 minutes and scored zero points in her UConn career.

Here is AEH shooting over Georgia Tech's Zaire O'Neil in high school:



For a good fit, AEH probably should go to a school that emphasizes 3pt shooting. Villanova, DePaul and Florida Gulf Coast come to my mind.
cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 01/13/18 9:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

More interestingly:

UConn, according to the Wtby. Rep-Am, has now played 174 games without a loss in regulation. They are 172-2 in that span, losing both games (Stanford, MS ST) in OT.

The last loss in regulation 40 mins., was to ND, 61-59, on 3/12/13, in the final (real) BET final.

Shocked



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