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Sparks @ Liberty - 8/13/17
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Who will win this game?
Sparks
65%
 65%  [ 15 ]
Liberty
34%
 34%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 23

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toad455



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PostPosted: 08/13/17 7:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nayo should be getting more minutes. Don't understand why she isn't. Lack of offense? But with us at Connecticut on Friday, then home vs. Minnesota on Sunday, we have to get Tina some rest. Z also played 36 minutes tonight.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 08/13/17 7:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

jmvcity wrote:
Queenie wrote:
root_thing wrote:
To anyone who went to the game, what the heck is that giveaway we received? It looks like something that holds ID -- like a very big name tag. Or maybe it's a dual train and bus pass holder that you strap on one of your limbs. A garter with a big ID pocket? Seriously, WTF? Laughing


We passed it up because there was a traffic jam at the escalator, but it looked like a cell phone holder armband.


It is indeed a cell phone holder/armband.

For those who immediately left after the game, you missed out on the charity basketball game featuring Justin Bieber and a bunch of New York D-list personalities.


Yes, give Queenie a cookie! I had to Google the concept, but it is indeed a cell phone armband. Sounds really uncomfortable. If I'm jogging and sweaty, the last thing I want is a phone strapped to my arm. I like my idea of a garter ID holder better. When you walk by the security desk, just show them your leg. Whether you've got the correct ID or they like your leg, either way you get in the building. Smile

The Liberty now have 15 wins and tiebreakers over 5 of the teams below them. They're probably already in the playoffs. Tina looks fried. She can't even make layups anymore. I would send her to the Carribean for a week or two of r&r. That's more important than chasing seeding.

Didn't know anything about the celebrity game until they announced it late, and then I was barely paying attention. I thought it was another one of these kids games for girls who couldn't play on the boys team. Now that I know it was Bieber and some D-listers, I'm really glad I left! Razz



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/13/17 8:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just got finished watching again on the DVR. First off, watching the second time it was clear how fatigued LA was, particularly in the fourth quarter. I thought we otherwise saw some of the best of what we do in terms of defense and rebounding...BUT...with tough mid-range shots and semi-contested 3s from Piph and Z. The Piph/Rodgers combo featured some nice spacing in the 4th. And it's been smart of Bill to gradually get all the vets on the floor together. That's going to be important for the playoffs, and it's also going to be needed if we are going to rest Tina more. Folks, remember that regarding Piph, she is a .366 career 3 point shooter. Coming into today she was at .294 for the season. If her 3 ball comes around, it will help get her into more consistent scoring.

The other posts did ok. Really solid game from Vaughn. And even though Stokes committed some fouls and didn't have the numbers, her fourth quarter defense was outstanding.

The roles and rotations seem to be coming into focus. If we get mid-range performance from Piph and Z, we're pretty good offensively. And we saw what a long road trip can do to a team. Now that our long trips are done we were the beneficiaries today.

And...looks like I'll be heading to Connecticut. And if so, I'll be sitting close and I'll be loud.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 08/13/17 10:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Liberty should focus on getting Tina some rest.Getting/chasing a 1st rd bye(1 day rest) is meaningless if Tina's has to play 35-38 mpg just to get it.Avoiding the mercury would also help their playoff chances.If NY/Phoe finishes 5th/6th in the standings,the only way they could matchup in the postseason is if both teams make it to the finals.The worst matchup for the liberty imo are the Mercury.


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 08/13/17 10:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Liberty should focus on getting Tina some rest.Getting/chasing a 1st rd bye(1 day rest) is meaningless if Tina's has to play 35-38 mpg just to get it.Avoiding the mercury would also help their playoff chances.If NY/Phoe finishes 5th/6th in the standings,the only way they could matchup in the postseason is if both teams make it to the finals.The worst matchup for the liberty imo are the Mercury.


I agree. As a Liberty fan, I'm delighted by the team's recent upswing but I still don't believe we can finish 4th. Thus, for me, the next best scenario would be for Washington to finish 4th, New York 5th, and Phoenix 6th. I definitely don't want to see another one-and-done game against Phoenix, even in Madison Square Garden. I saw one of those in person; that was enough. And I wouldn't like to see a second round one-and-done game at Connecticut. I believe we'd have a better chance against Washington.



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PostPosted: 08/13/17 10:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Getting/chasing a 1st rd bye(1 day rest) is meaningless if Tina's has to play 35-38 mpg just to get it.


It's actually an extra 3 or 4 days rest for the #3 & #4 seeds.

The #3 seed plays the lower seed winner from round 1, but plays a day earlier than the #4 seed.

#4 seed plays the better seeded team from the first round winners but gets to play a day later.



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scrappy



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PostPosted: 08/13/17 10:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

this is the first time i ever see vaughn smiles in a uniform.

http://www.wnba.com/news/justin-bieber-plays-celebrity-game-help-fight-cancer/



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/13/17 11:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm with Bob and Shades. I still haven't given up on fourth since DC still is without EDD with two tough games this week. With the Libs also having a home game tiebreaker game against the Mystics at the Garden in twelve days, there's certainly a chance. And that 4 seed would be worth several days of rest. Yes it would be nice to get Tina fewer minutes but in the two prior games against lesser opponents she played 32 and 30 minutes. We play 4 teams with losing records in our final 5 games. It's very conceivable in the last one Dallas will be locked into a road playoff game and have nothing to play for that would be worth even letting Diggins or Johnson play. We have no back-to-backs, no long road trips and we're 7-3 so far this year against the teams we're playing in the final 5 games with 2 of those being road losses. The last game is a road game in Dallas against a team that stands a very reasonable likelihood of having nothing to play for. If we're still in the race for 4 seed at that point, there's going to be more opportunities to rest Tina some. The 38 minutes today was clearly due to prioritizing this game with 4 upcoming days off.

This all said, if we don't finish 4th then I want 5th. Also want no part of Phoenix and a 5 seed would ensure that it couldn't happen before the finals as long as Phoenix remains in 6 or 7. And I think we match up better to DC than CT, particularly in a one-game scenario.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 08/14/17 12:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So, the strategy here is to be terrified of other teams, duck as many as possible, and then hope that we somehow back into advancing? If the Liberty were to stumble into a championship, instead of puffing our chests out and shouting to the world that we have the best team, Liberty fans will instead smile sheepishly and mumble, "Shit, we did it. We were really really lucky!" That sure sounds satisfying and worthwhile. Razz



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zune69



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PostPosted: 08/14/17 12:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:

It's actually an extra 3 or 4 days rest for the #3 & #4 seeds.

The #3 seed plays the lower seed winner from round 1, but plays a day earlier than the #4 seed.

#4 seed plays the better seeded team from the first round winners but gets to play a day later.


I stand corrected....Thanks.

root_thing wrote:
So, the strategy here is to be terrified of other teams, duck as many as possible, and then hope that we somehow back into advancing? If the Liberty were to stumble into a championship, instead of puffing our chests out and shouting to the world that we have the best team, Liberty fans will instead smile sheepishly and mumble, "Shit, we did it. We were really really lucky!" That sure sounds satisfying and worthwhile. Razz


No,the strategy is to not run Tina into the ground trying to chase a higher seed.Tina being healthy and well rested should be the #1 priority on the liberty's list.Avoiding phoenix,and a 2nd rd matchup with connecticut would be icing on the cake.


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PostPosted: 08/14/17 12:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
So, the strategy here is to be terrified of other teams, duck as many as possible, and then hope that we somehow back into advancing? If the Liberty were to stumble into a championship, instead of puffing our chests out and shouting to the world that we have the best team, Liberty fans will instead smile sheepishly and mumble, "Shit, we did it. We were really really lucky!" That sure sounds satisfying and worthwhile. Razz


I view it as so unlikely that the Liberty will win the championship this year. But if so I will take it any way we can get it. We'd very likely have to win a first round do or die game at home, win a do-or-die second round game on the road against Washington, win a third round series against Minnesota with the Lynx holding home-court advantage, and then beat L.A. or Connecticut in the finals with that team having home-court advantage.

If miraculously (in my view) all that worked out, the last thing I'd say is "We were really really lucky." I'd be ecstatic. I'd say that our team did WONDERFULLY and accomplished something in 2017 that I never believed was possible.



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PostPosted: 08/14/17 2:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Getting/chasing a 1st rd bye(1 day rest) is meaningless if Tina's has to play 35-38 mpg just to get it.


It's actually an extra 3 or 4 days rest for the #3 & #4 seeds.

The #3 seed plays the lower seed winner from round 1, but plays a day earlier than the #4 seed.

#4 seed plays the better seeded team from the first round winners but gets to play a day later.


The games last year were only staggered because of a conflict at MSG. Otherwise they were supposed to be on the same day.


NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/14/17 10:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
So, the strategy here is to be terrified of other teams, duck as many as possible, and then hope that we somehow back into advancing? If the Liberty were to stumble into a championship, instead of puffing our chests out and shouting to the world that we have the best team, Liberty fans will instead smile sheepishly and mumble, "Shit, we did it. We were really really lucky!" That sure sounds satisfying and worthwhile. Razz


I wouldn't view it that way. I think there's a lot of teams that would not be thrilled with facing Diana Taurasi and Brittney Griner in a one-and-done situation. Not only can DT go off for 30+ if she gets hot...against anyone...but you have the added situation of how the game is officiated as a factor with a team like Phoenix. In a one-and-done situation, who wants to deal with that?

Regarding CT, hell, if I'm LA right now I want no part of CT. I think CT matches up extremely well to LA. Alyssa Thomas is an excellent matchup if you're looking to dictate at Nneka on defense, and JJ is probably the best matchup on CP3 in the WNBA given her height, length and perimeter ability. And they're the champs. I don't view it from an NY perspective as fear. I view it as just being what it is. Some teams just match up better to certain teams.

On the positive side, we are seeing NY take on a more and more physical angle against every team, led by Tina really trying to dictate inside. While her numbers have been a mixed bag lately, her assists are rising and there's more of a physical tone being set by her than we've seen in the past. That can help against the longer, more athletic teams who are more finesse-oriented like CT or LA. Let's see what the last 7 games bring. We're just starting to play our best ball. Perhaps we have the potential to make certain matchups look less daunting.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 08/14/17 10:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Well I'll be sitting on the baseline at Mohegan. Hopefully the baskets are mic'ed.



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root_thing



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PostPosted: 08/14/17 11:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Charles already looks tired to me. She is shooting 39-106 36.8% over the last six games. Tina didn't reach 50% in any game and only cracked 40% in one. Remember, this is a post player. Also, her rebounding average dipped to 7.5 over that period. I've heard David Cone say that the first thing that goes in a tired pitcher is his control, not his velocity. That's because you can muscle up and force more effort in the short-run. I see Tina bullying her way to the basket and then banging shots too hard off the glass or flipping them toward the rim seemingly without aim. There is less fluidity to her movement and poor touch on her shots. It looks like forced effort to me. Fatigue is a physical ailment just like injury and illness. If you don't take care of the problem early and simply drag around with it, the situation can worsen to the point where recovery requires shutting down for a long time. Yes, getting that 4th seed may help you avoid some teams and buy you some days off three weeks from now. But will Tina already be fried by then? She looked a lot better entering the playoffs in 2015. And yet, when NY was eliminated by Indiana, Laimbeer blamed the team's loss on NY "running out of gas." We've already seen a prelude to that excuse on the recent road trip when losses were partly blamed on fatigue even though the games were fairly spread out. I just don't like where this is going.



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PostPosted: 08/14/17 1:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We could theoretically rest Tina either in the game against Minny assuming a loss is likely anyway, or on the trip out to Indy assuming we should be able to beat Indy (who is banged up) without her.


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PostPosted: 08/14/17 1:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Count me as one more vote saying it's urgent that Charles be rested plenty before the playoffs. The outside chance of finishing 4th isn't worth it if Charles is exhausted when the playoffs begin. And I'd rather that the Liberty finished 6th, 7th, or 8th with a rested Charles than 5th with an exhausted Charles.



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PostPosted: 08/14/17 2:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Count me as one more vote saying it's urgent that Charles be rested plenty before the playoffs. The outside chance of finishing 4th isn't worth it if Charles is exhausted when the playoffs begin. And I'd rather that the Liberty finished 6th, 7th, or 8th with a rested Charles than 5th with an exhausted Charles.


100% agree. been sayin that from the time Laimbeer started to barely play the bench at all. that was a painful to watch.


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PostPosted: 08/14/17 3:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm hoping that the MO behind playing Piph and Rodgers together is to try to give Rodgers more rest through having an extra scorer/shooter on the floor. If you look at a lineup featuring LA, Nayo and Kiah, two of them can't shoot and the third one rarely does. It's hard to stay with those lineups for long. Not that I'm saying I don't understand resting Tina. Just, we've been in an inordinate number of close games. It's hard to go with non-scoring lineups in that situation.

You'd also hope some of this will take care of itself in that maybe we can actually win some games by double digits since we are a likely favorite in 5 of our last 7. Larger spreads will give you more opportunities to rest Tina. Also, if we're locked into a 5 or 6 seed by the final weekend you can rest her those two games. If we're still fighting for 4th and get it, the team gets a week off till its first game, at home. That's another good rest opportunity.

But trust me I get it. All the above points are valid. Even other stars playing minutes slightly less than Tina aren't carrying the entire team like Tina is. Nneka, CP3 and Gray have each other. Ditto Maya, Seimone,Syl. NY needs its perimeter players to carry more of a consistent load. The disproportionate load on Tina's shoulders has to be wearing her down. So much of our offense is dictated through her in the post, both scoring and play making.



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PostPosted: 08/14/17 6:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just to add in short. I don't know that there's one magic elixir. Given the pros of resting Tina in the regular season more often, there's no given that as a 5 or 6 seed we even win the first round game. Seattle was up 3 on us at home with less than 3 minutes left. Chicago beat us at home. Both teams are probably better than their records indicate. And if we were to win that game, if it's close and Tina plays 35-40 minutes, then we travel to DC and play either 3 or 4 days later. So even the larger rest scenario (conceding the 4 seed) might actually result in a more fatigued Charles in the playoffs.



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PostPosted: 08/14/17 8:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I am in favor of resting Tuna but also in favor of going for the 4 seed. That is why I suggested resting her either in games like Indy and or SA where we have a good shot at winning anyway or Minny where a win isn't likely. TBH I prefer the 4 seed both for the extra rest and avoiding playing Conn as the 3 seed if we end up lower than 5th.

OTOH if we aren't going to move to 4th then I'm all for dropping to 6th-8th for better draft position. But OTOOH I don't want to come into the playoffs on a loosing streak. We've been playing better lately and winning a playoff game or a few could be something to build on for next season.


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PostPosted: 08/14/17 8:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
jap wrote:
It's playoff time! - almost. Time to rock & roll. Let's get Odyssey and Sydney as comfortable coming off the bench as possible while Essence & Riquna recuperates during these final regular season tune up games. Sandrine and Tiffany may need to see action to ramp up that playoff energy.


To ensure a well-rested squad for the playoffs I think it would be in everyone's best interest for Nneka, Parker and Gray to play limited minutes. 20 each should work. Wiese and Lavender are pretty fresh. Get them a solid 35 minutes each. Just looking out for you guys. Honest.


But Agler is the HC. Dude just runs starters into the floor sometimes. But, to be fair, the Sun are only 2 games behind the Sparks, perhaps he doesn't want to risk losing that bye.


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PostPosted: 08/14/17 8:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't know if conceding the 4th seed thereby playing an extra playoff game is the best way to "rest Charles" in the long run, unless you're anticipating a short run. If you want to concede the game against Minnesota, you could rest Charles for that whole game.... just like last season, when the Liberty beat the Lynx. Embarassed



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PostPosted: 08/14/17 9:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
jmvcity wrote:
Queenie wrote:
root_thing wrote:
To anyone who went to the game, what the heck is that giveaway we received? It looks like something that holds ID -- like a very big name tag. Or maybe it's a dual train and bus pass holder that you strap on one of your limbs. A garter with a big ID pocket? Seriously, WTF? Laughing


We passed it up because there was a traffic jam at the escalator, but it looked like a cell phone holder armband.


It is indeed a cell phone holder/armband.

For those who immediately left after the game, you missed out on the charity basketball game featuring Justin Bieber and a bunch of New York D-list personalities.


Yes, give Queenie a cookie! I had to Google the concept, but it is indeed a cell phone armband. Sounds really uncomfortable. If I'm jogging and sweaty, the last thing I want is a phone strapped to my arm. I like my idea of a garter ID holder better. When you walk by the security desk, just show them your leg. Whether you've got the correct ID or they like your leg, either way you get in the building. Smile


Don't try this at home, kids. I'm a trained professional. (No, seriously. Promo products are one of the lines of business I work in.)



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PostPosted: 08/14/17 10:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
root_thing wrote:

Yes, give Queenie a cookie! I had to Google the concept, but it is indeed a cell phone armband. Sounds really uncomfortable. If I'm jogging and sweaty, the last thing I want is a phone strapped to my arm. I like my idea of a garter ID holder better. When you walk by the security desk, just show them your leg. Whether you've got the correct ID or they like your leg, either way you get in the building. Smile


Don't try this at home, kids. I'm a trained professional. (No, seriously. Promo products are one of the lines of business I work in.)


OMG, you're right! I strapped on the cell phone armband too tight and now I've got gangrene! I'm suing MSG!



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