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Fever @ Liberty - 8/08/17
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Who will win this game?
Fever
18%
 18%  [ 4 ]
Liberty
81%
 81%  [ 18 ]
Total Votes : 22

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PostPosted: 08/07/17 7:47 pm    ::: Fever @ Liberty - 8/08/17 Reply Reply with quote

New York, NY - 7:00 PM ET
TV: MSG
Online: League Pass

Game info:
http://www.wnba.com/game/20170808/INDNYL



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PostPosted: 08/07/17 9:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Liberty desperately need win.



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PostPosted: 08/07/17 11:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If the Lib don't win this one, they may as well pack it in for the season.



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 12:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
If the Lib don't win this one, they may as well pack it in for the season.


Indiana just beat Minnesota. I know the Lynx didn't have Lindsay Whalen but neither do we. Smile



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 7:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Packing it in for the season is not really an option anyway. Razz


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PostPosted: 08/08/17 8:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Libs should pull this out , but if Dupree scores 30 again i may have to re-cast my vote!



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 12:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

One of the truly frustrating parts of re-watching the last NY-Indy game is how aggressively and easily Indiana attacked the paint with Vaughn in the game. Enough is enough already. Yeah she adds a little offense and once in awhile she rebounds. Start Zahui or give Stokes 30 mpg to play through her downswings and stop screwing around already. The season hangs in the balance and either of the above two options has a better chance of setting some type of tone or dictating play than it does to keep starting Vaughn.



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 12:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

We've seen players wear hair extensions. Are arm extensions legal? What about stilts?



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 12:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nayo's plus/minus is best on the team. Lindsay Allen is second and the point differentials are staggering when they're in as opposed to when they're not. Hartley's is surprisingly awful. I get that plus/minus can be a flawed stat but the Libs are about -7 points per 40 with Hartley out there and +7 in points per 40 with Lindsay Allen out there. That's a huge discrepancy. And I get LA is doing it vs. bench players but still. Vaughn's is worse than Stokes also and Vaughn plays more with Tina than Stokes does.



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 3:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Before Indiana beat up the poor Lynx I would have said this is an easy win for New York. Now, I don't know..... Confused



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 3:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I said it on the other thread: in these 10 games, New York should play Zahui B., both Allens, and Raincock-Ekunwe at least 20 minutes each game. Finishing 4th is a pipedream. We won't fall to 9th. Doesn't matter much if we finish 5th, 6th. 7th, or 8th. Getting a long look at these young players for next season is more important.



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 5:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Do we know if Dupree is travelling with Ind now?



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 5:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
Do we know if Dupree is travelling with Ind now?


I'm at the game. Dupree is too.



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 6:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Zahui B with a couple of nice hustle plays.


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PostPosted: 08/08/17 6:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stokes in the key for about 8 seconds. Shocked



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 6:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Prince and Rodgers shooting struggles continue....



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 6:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Dumb substitutions by Bill.Liberty push the lead to 12 points and he decides to take Stokes out in favor of Vaughn.Lead now down to 4.


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PostPosted: 08/08/17 7:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was thinking that Wheeler was due for a big scoring night. Looks like I wasn't wrong.


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PostPosted: 08/08/17 8:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bill needs to stop the nonsense and just make Stokes the starting center.


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PostPosted: 08/08/17 8:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Bill needs to stop the nonsense and just make Stokes the starting center.


been sayin that for awhile now, good win needed this badly


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PostPosted: 08/08/17 8:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

LibFan25 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Bill needs to stop the nonsense and just make Stokes the starting center.


been sayin that for awhile now, good win needed this badly


And you were right.


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PostPosted: 08/08/17 8:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Given the ups and downs of Kiah Stokes this season, I'm not convinced, even now, that Stokes should be the Liberty's starting center. What is clear, in my view, is that Kia Vaughn should NOT be starting at center.



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 8:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I've only seen the box score, but I have a few observations:

1.) I am shocked that the Liberty didn't follow the advice given here to start Zahui B. the Allen twins, and NRE.

2.) Poison Pill. Shocked Very Happy Very Happy




Last edited by Randy on 08/08/17 9:19 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: 08/08/17 9:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hartley and Stokes
ain't no jokes.

Vaughn and Piph,
whiff, whiff, whiff.
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PostPosted: 08/08/17 9:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Given the ups and downs of Kiah Stokes this season, I'm not convinced, even now, that Stokes should be the Liberty's starting center. What is clear, in my view, is that Kia Vaughn should NOT be starting at center.


Kiah's rollercoaster season has more to do with Laimbeer imo.Coach Bill wants to play an offensive center alongside Charles to take advantage of the double teams on Tina.However,Vaughn's offense isn't good enough to offset the lost of Kiah's defense and rebounding.Stokes is also a better FT shooter and finisher than Vaughn.


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PostPosted: 08/08/17 9:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm going to have a LOT to say when I get home. Even by my standards.



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 9:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
I'm going to have a LOT to say when I get home. Even by my standards.


You guys did win tonight. So keep that in mind....... Wink




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PostPosted: 08/08/17 9:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's not going to be overly critical except for one player. Just a lot of discussion points.



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 9:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
Given the ups and downs of Kiah Stokes this season, I'm not convinced, even now, that Stokes should be the Liberty's starting center. What is clear, in my view, is that Kia Vaughn should NOT be starting at center.


Kiah's rollercoaster season has more to do with Laimbeer imo.Coach Bill wants to play an offensive center alongside Charles to take advantage of the double teams on Tina.However,Vaughn's offense isn't good enough to offset the lost of Kiah's defense and rebounding.Stokes is also a better FT shooter and finisher than Vaughn.


I've always believed that who starts the game is highly overrated. For example, tonight Vaughn started and played about 15 minutes. Stokes played about 25. In my view, what's important is how many minutes a player is on the court and who's on the court in the final five minutes of a game.

When the Liberty were at their best in recent years, Carolyn Swords was starting most of the time, but Kiah Stokes was playing many more minutes than Swords. And Stokes was on the court in the crucial minutes of fourth quarters and overtimes.

NYL_WNBA_FAN recently made a very good case as to why Zahui B. should be given a shot at starting. I posted and agreed. Right now, I'd certainly play Kiah Stokes for at least 25 minutes a game. Whether that includes being the starter is, for me, trivial.



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 9:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
I've only seen the box score, but I have a few observations:

1.) I am shocked that the Liberty didn't follow the advice given here to start Zahui B. the Allen twins, and NRE.

2.) Poison Pill. Shocked Very Happy Very Happy


If you were referring to my comment, I didn't say those four should start the game. I said each should play at least 20 minutes per game for the rest of the regular season. Instead, tonight Zahui B., Allen, Allen, and Raincock-Ekunwe together played about 22 minutes. I think that's a mistake.

Moreover, simply on merit, Prince, Rodgers, and Vaughn have hardly been playing so well that they deserve the minutes they're getting.



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 9:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Randy wrote:
I've only seen the box score, but I have a few observations:

1.) I am shocked that the Liberty didn't follow the advice given here to start Zahui B. the Allen twins, and NRE.

2.) Poison Pill. Shocked Very Happy Very Happy


If you were referring to my comment, I didn't say those four should start the game. I said each should play at least 20 minutes per game for the rest of the regular season. Instead, tonight Zahui B., Allen, Allen, and Raincock-Ekunwe together played about 22 minutes. I think that's a mistake.

Moreover, simply on merit, Prince, Rodgers, and Vaughn have hardly been playing so well that they deserve the minutes they're getting.


I don't think you were the only one suggest those players should get played a lot more than they have been. I agree with the observation of Prince, Rodger and Vaughn.


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PostPosted: 08/08/17 10:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

glad we got the win, but Prince & Rodgers really need to get out of their shooting slump.



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 10:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
Given the ups and downs of Kiah Stokes this season, I'm not convinced, even now, that Stokes should be the Liberty's starting center. What is clear, in my view, is that Kia Vaughn should NOT be starting at center.


Kiah's rollercoaster season has more to do with Laimbeer imo.Coach Bill wants to play an offensive center alongside Charles to take advantage of the double teams on Tina.However,Vaughn's offense isn't good enough to offset the lost of Kiah's defense and rebounding.Stokes is also a better FT shooter and finisher than Vaughn.


I actually think this is mainly the wrong discussion. I've always believed that who starts the game is highly overrated. For example, tonight Vaughn started and played about 15 minutes. Stokes played about 25. In my view, what's important is how many minutes a player is on the court and who's on the court in the final five minutes of a game.

When the Liberty were at their best in recent years, Carolyn Swords was starting most of the time, but Kiah Stokes was playing many more minutes than Swords. And Stokes was on the court in the crucial minutes of fourth quarters and overtimes.

NYL_WNBA_FAN recently made a very good case as to why Zahui B. should be given a shot at starting. I posted and agreed. Right now, I'd certainly play Kiah Stokes for at least 25 minutes a game. Whether that includes being the starter is, for me, trivial.


In some cases,who starts the game is very relevant.New york's identity is defense and rebounding.Stokes is the best defender/rebounder on the team.Just look at tonight's game.Achonwa had an offensive rebound putback and wide open jump shot in the first 1:30 of the game.Stokes starting would set the defensive tone from the jump.Bringing Stokes off the bench limits the amount of minutes she's guarding the oppositions best post player.If Stokes is sitting on the bench to start each half,that's 8-10 minutes where she's not guarding the best offensive post.

The first 5 minutes of each half(10 total minutes) are more important than the last 5 minutes of the game imo.The fisrt 5 minutes is where you set the tone,and puts your team in position to win the game.

Zahui B is a poor defender and foul machine.No way should she be starting.More minutes ? Yes....starting ? No......Last thing the Liberty want is early foul trouble,or the opposing post players getting off to a great offensive start.


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PostPosted: 08/08/17 11:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
glad we got the win, but Prince & Rodgers really need to get out of their shooting slump.


Prince is in a shooting slump. Rodgers has gone insane.



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 11:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Okay. Here we go. First off, Stokes has always been better off the bench so starting is a non-issue for me. Second, her defense has been remarkably consistent since game number 18 even if her numbers haven't. I implore anyone to rewatch this game and focus on Kiah and the number of times she hems offensive players on the baseline, alters shots on switches and simply prevents shooters from shooting. Even on a switch, when Stokes is right I don't think there's a better post in the WNBA at defending guards on switches. She's quick, agile and closes out remarkably quick even on smaller players. I wasn't going to talk Zahui till later but since we are, yes, she is foul prone, but no she isn't a "poor defender". I think if used 30 mpg her fouls would add up, but if you want to play her in 5 minute spurts I don't even care about an occasional foul if she's bringing you the energy and hustle she brought tonight. I was at the game and the Garden came alive in the portion of the game she was in. Her ability to run the floor and bang people comes immediately into play when she's in there. And she certainly protects the rim better than Vaughn. She's no Fowles, but Skylar Diggins has more blocked shots per 36 minutes than Kia Vaughn. More on Zahui later.

Now let's get to Vaughn. At this point, I'm at a loss as to what she brings you other than the occasional hook shot in the post and occasional rebound. She can't guard anyone on switches. She can't guard anyone in space. Her lateral movement is terrible. She doesn't have length to make up for her lack of height. She can't block shots or alter very many. In all too many games, teams have a party in the paint when Vaughn is in the game. Stokes has outplayed her badly the since the start of the road trip in Minnesota. Mind you, I think 25 minutes is the perfect number of minutes for Stokes. I think when you get into the 30ish territory you're in danger of subjecting her to fatigue that would preclude her being as effective in basically being the Liberty's all-everything defender. I'm going to get to minutes allocation later too. And I say this as a person who watches every team in the league play. I've seen every team in the league play at least 3 times. I've seen many teams more than that. So this is not just that Vaughn doesn't measure up to Stokes, or in my opinion certain aspects that Zahui could bring you. We're talking league-wide. Take an undersized Larkins. At least she makes up for rim protection with physicality. Kia doesn't do that either. More on this later. Yeah I'm on a roll.

Now the guard-play. Yeah, the numbers tell you we are getting nothing out of the 2-guard spot. But they don't tell the whole story. Teams actually defend Prince and Rodgers pretty tight. Generally, each player attracts additional help in pick and roll situations. Guess who's usually wide open as a result? Hartley. Hence a good part of her production of late, which is usually on wide-open shots. Yes, her quickness and ability to move without the ball is a part of it too. But no question, teams are more apt to worry about Piph and Sugar than Hartley. It's paid dividends as Tina, Piph and Z have all made efforts to create shots for Hartley. If the Libs had a truer PG on the team that would really help too but it is what it is.

Okay now the minutes allocation. And here's where I'm really caught in between. Bill Laimbeer and Herb Williams know more about post play in their little fingers than I do in my whole body. So I defer to their understanding. Both were high-level NBA big men for many years. But my confusion about the minutes allocation relates to both the bigs and the wings. Let's hit the bigs first. On Zahui, we've had her almost two years. In that time, the Liberty have shown no inclination to play Zahui and Charles together. If they're grooming Zahui to be Charles' replacement in the offense then she's probably not going to be a starter for another 6 or 7 years, so there's got to be more to it than that. But what??? Zahui is not 6'2" like so many people on her want to make people believe. She ain't 6'5" either but she's a presence inside and she has a pretty good wingspan. Unlike Vaughn, she can alter shots. So that begs the question, why does she almost never play the C spot? In my mind she's more of a C than Vaughn is, even if she extends to the 3 point line and her post offense is erratic. So what is it then? Is she only capable of knowing one position? Is it a matter of sticking to rotations and making sure everyone understands their roles?

Which leads me to the final point, and this goes for Zahui, Vaughn, Piph, Sugar, Bec and Z. The Liberty use very set rotations. I mean, most teams do. However, to me, the Liberty are slower to deviate from set rotations if players are struggling. Mind you, I know the options are few and far between. I also know that confidence is a fine line and you don't want to start mixing and matching players haphazardly. So this is not a critique of Laimbeer, whose opinions I generally trust, as much as it a question. Aren't there times where deviating from rotations would make sense? Tonight there would have been two perfect examples. Sugar was a mess tonight. Tossing shots up from all angles with no chance of them going in. Piph's presence of mind was ok, but at 2 of 7 from the field she struggled too, as she pretty much has since her return from Russia. Similarly, Vaughn struggled tonight too. Now in that late-first, early-second quarter area you had Zahui and other bench players running the floor and really being aggressive and energetic. The Garden was alive. Now when Dupree reenters the game for Indiana, I understand the situation. Zahui ain't guarding her in space. Stokes had played about 8 straight fast-paced minutes. If you want her energy up in the fourth quarter, taking her out there was the right move. But here's where I think rotation deviation would have been the move. Tina and Kia come in, and all that energy and fast-paced play you had vanished and a 12-point lead was in single digits pretty quick. Why not give Nayo a run at the 4 spot against Dupree and let Zahui play the 5 spot for a couple of minutes? Nayo would have been a fresh, athletic body to throw at Dupree, who had the unenviable task of trying to otherwise bear-hug Charles in the paint to keep her from scoring. How much would you have to lose? You'd still be setting tempo and you'd have a ton of energy on the floor. If Indy goes on a 4-0 or 6-0 run, call time and get the starters in. If not, you'd probably wear down Dupree and Larkins instead of it being vice-versa. Similarly with the wing players, what if once in a blue moon we tried Z at the 2 with Bec at the 3? Would that be a significant alteration of the offensive system? I don't see that at all. If Sugar is a mess and Piph is slow and lethargic, here's another chance for fresh legs. Furthermore you'd be giving Z the ball-handling role in this situation without conflicting with Piph or Sugar. But again, that would be rotation deviation. So what's the deal? Bad idea because you want the continuity of rotations? Or good idea because at times you need to change things up?

I don't know. The only thing I do know is that what we are doing isn't working consistently enough. I also know that more than half the team is performing more poorly than last year, and the only common thread is our PG situation is even worse than last year. The question is, can we get around that in ways we haven't tried yet?



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 11:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
toad455 wrote:
glad we got the win, but Prince & Rodgers really need to get out of their shooting slump.


Prince is in a shooting slump. Rodgers has gone insane.


We've finished game 25 out of 34. Prince is averaging 11.3 points per game, Rodgers 11.5. This isn't the sole reason why the Liberty are a disappointing 13-12. But this is a team with only one star and these were expected to be our #2 and #3 scorers. (Zellous is ahead of them at 11.8 points per game.)



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 11:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

root_thing wrote:
toad455 wrote:
glad we got the win, but Prince & Rodgers really need to get out of their shooting slump.


Prince is in a shooting slump. Rodgers has gone insane.


For real bro. When Sugar penetrates, her shot has a better chance of hitting the backboard and missing the rim than it has of going in that cylindrical thing with the net attached.



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 11:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
root_thing wrote:
toad455 wrote:
glad we got the win, but Prince & Rodgers really need to get out of their shooting slump.


Prince is in a shooting slump. Rodgers has gone insane.


We've finished game 25 out of 34. Prince is averaging 11.3 points per game, Rodgers 11.5. This isn't the sole reason why the Liberty are a disappointing 13-12. But this is a team with only one star and these were expected to be our #2 and #3 scorers. (Zellous is ahead of them at 11.8 points per game.)


It's not just their averages. Their shooting percentages are well under 40 and it's not like either of them make up for it by getting to the foul line. But yes, I think part of their struggles are attached to not having a true PG and yes also, their struggles are only part of the bigger picture. And yes, for the Libs, or any team, to be truly good instead of up and down they need more than one consistent scorer.



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 11:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
root_thing wrote:
toad455 wrote:
glad we got the win, but Prince & Rodgers really need to get out of their shooting slump.


Prince is in a shooting slump. Rodgers has gone insane.


We've finished game 25 out of 34. Prince is averaging 11.3 points per game, Rodgers 11.5. This isn't the sole reason why the Liberty are a disappointing 13-12. But this is a team with only one star and these were expected to be our #2 and #3 scorers. (Zellous is ahead of them at 11.8 points per game.)


It's not just their averages. Their shooting percentages are well under 40 and it's not like either of them make up for it by getting to the foul line. But yes, I think part of their struggles are attached to not having a true PG and yes also, their struggles are only part of the bigger picture. And yes, for the Libs, or any team, to be truly good instead of up and down they need more than one consistent scorer.


I didn't have the energy to post their disappointing shooting percentages. Of course you're right about this. And about the point guard issue, which you've mentioned repeatedly and quite appropriately.

Just in terms of scoring, the 2017 Liberty have been really hurt by the numbers for Prince, for Rodgers, and for the bench.



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 11:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
root_thing wrote:
toad455 wrote:
glad we got the win, but Prince & Rodgers really need to get out of their shooting slump.


Prince is in a shooting slump. Rodgers has gone insane.


For real bro. When Sugar penetrates, her shot has a better chance of hitting the backboard and missing the rim than it has of going in that cylindrical thing with the net attached.


For me, it was wonderful but also distressing to watch Sugar Rodgers in the three-point contest during the All Star Game. Yes, the shots she's put up while penetrating have often been quite dubious. But she's missed SO many open shots this season, shots that she is obviously capable of making a much higher percentage of the time. And there have been too many games where she seems to go O for her first four, five, six shots.



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 11:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hoping there's ways to be creative with the deficiencies, but at this point the Libs have all the makings of a 17-17 team. I do think that there's a plus side on the horizon though. Stokes' D has been pretty consistent for about a month now. And Boyd will return, though we have the uncertainty of a major injury attached. But the Liberty have one main need, which should be filled in the draft without issue. I had thought a few weeks ago a post with length was the top need. Now with the guard issues, I think the versatile guard is the need. Luckily, in draft projections, there are those types available mid-to-late first round. And for me personally, a few of them will be contributors pretty quickly. If you get Boyd back ok and Stokes starts off next season the way she's finishing up now, the one main need can otherwise be filled.



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PostPosted: 08/08/17 11:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

On Stokes, I don't know if people realize it but she's shooting .792 from the foul line. I really think she needs to be pushed to shoot from 15-18 feet more often in games. The improvement in her shooting touch is legit. She swishes them regularly in warmups too. She has the ability to hit them in games if she'd actually look to do it rather than look at the very act of releasing the ball as the ultimate in selfishness. In that sense, Kiah is definitely too unselfish.



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 12:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
root_thing wrote:
toad455 wrote:
glad we got the win, but Prince & Rodgers really need to get out of their shooting slump.


Prince is in a shooting slump. Rodgers has gone insane.


For real bro. When Sugar penetrates, her shot has a better chance of hitting the backboard and missing the rim than it has of going in that cylindrical thing with the net attached.


For me, it was wonderful but also distressing to watch Sugar Rodgers in the three-point contest during the All Star Game. Yes, the shots she's put up while penetrating have often been quite dubious. But she's missed SO many open shots this season, shots that she is obviously capable of making a much higher percentage of the time. And there have been too many games where she seems to go O for her first four, five, six shots.


And to add to this, it's another kind of repetitive thing on my part, but she's attempting more and more penetrating shots of late. I was talking with my buddy about this on the way home. My thought is that the coaching staff isn't discouraging the shot selection. In fact, one of the very first plays in the part where she entered the game was a beautiful curl for a penetration right down the middle of the lane. She followed up by bricking the layup. So my thought process is that she's GOT to be making some of these shots in practice. If not, by now I'd think they'd be highly discouraged by the coaching staff instead of them running one of the first plays after she entered to set up a penetration for her. Just my take and I could be wrong. But it seems like the more she struggles with penetrations, the more she tries them. Which would lead a person to believe that the coaching staff isn't discouraging the attempts. But, your guess is as good as mine if that's the case.



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 1:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

All I know is every time Sugar tries to penetrate on her own, it ends up as something like a blind hook shot over her head or a double-pump scoop or a no look pass to no one. It's amazing she doesn't have more turnovers. Either the official scorer is missing them or her teammates are saving her ass by recovering the ball. I can live with missed shots, but crazy shots are no different than turnovers in my book.

As far as Prince goes, she looks like the weak link on defense to me. I can't believe how she's practically been given a free pass while other players get killed on this board for their defense. And if Piph isn't hitting her shots, then you start to wonder why she's on the floor. That is until you see Sugar do her Drunken Hammon act and then you remember why.

Zahui B. mostly defended at center for Orenburg. E. Williams usually covered the PF because she's more mobile.

Last year's second unit had Zellous at 2 and R. Allen at 3. It worked well because teams had to worry about Z and Boyd creating off the dribble, which left Bec open for kick-out passes and good looks beyond the arc. Zahui and Stokes were the posts in any configuration you want. Substitute L. Allen for Boyd, and you have a combination similar to the one that worked well last season. It's just a matter of having both your small forwards in the game at the same time. I guess Laimbeer doesn't want that. However, if we keep getting games where both Prince and Rodgers are bad, then Bill needs to consider using the Allens in their place. The pairings would be either Bec at SF with Zellous at SG or Lindsay at PG with Hartley at SG.



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 1:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Piph's D has been honestly pretty good most of the time with a few bad games mixed in. Bardo even praised it in the Chicago game. Not sure who was on Wheeler when she was getting the early open looks tonight though. But yeah basically it's like choosing between arsenic and cyanide some nights. Ironically the "poison pill" had 33 points.

On Zahui, I think she's a nice change of pace to defend C in this league too. The Liberty have no other really physical posts. Kiah was banging in a few of those wins during the streak after Piph and Kia left. Since those 5 offensive fouls in two games it seems like Kiah has been reluctant to be physical.



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 8:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
root_thing wrote:
toad455 wrote:
glad we got the win, but Prince & Rodgers really need to get out of their shooting slump.


Prince is in a shooting slump. Rodgers has gone insane.


For real bro. When Sugar penetrates, her shot has a better chance of hitting the backboard and missing the rim than it has of going in that cylindrical thing with the net attached.



DEAD ! #ThisIsSoTrue lol either she makes the shot or its going into another zip code ! Shocked



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 10:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Re Kia Vaughn: Let's not forget her aversion to contact. She's shot 14 free throws this season in 360 minutes (1.4 per 36 minutes).

Sami Whitcomb, a three-point specialist, shoots 1.8 per 36.

More to the point, Erlana Larkins, a post who is not a focal point of the Indiana offense, shoots 2.2 per 36. Elizabeth Williams shoots 3.1 per 36. And so on ...

The lack of FTA not only limits Vaughn's offense but it allows other teams' posts to stay on the floor because they are never in foul trouble.



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 10:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

offseason trade: Vaughn for Swords. #bringbackSwords



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 10:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Re Kia Vaughn: Let's not forget her aversion to contact. She's shot 14 free throws this season in 360 minutes (1.4 per 36 minutes).

Sami Whitcomb, a three-point specialist, shoots 1.8 per 36.

More to the point, Erlana Larkins, a post who is not a focal point of the Indiana offense, shoots 2.2 per 36. Elizabeth Williams shoots 3.1 per 36. And so on ...

The lack of FTA not only limits Vaughn's offense but it allows other teams' posts to stay on the floor because they are never in foul trouble.


Excellent point. It also allows opposing posts to dig in and dictate contact rather than vice versa. I really thought Bill might be good for Kia but it looks like she is what she is. A player who shoots fewer FT per minute than Whitcomb and who blocks fewer shots per minute than Diggins. This is exactly why I wanted to give Zahui a try. Whatever Zahui isn't, one positive is she initiates contact rather than being the recipient of it.



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 10:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
offseason trade: Vaughn for Swords. #bringbackSwords


And why would another team want to trade for Vaughn?



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