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Sky @ Wings - 7/16/17
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Who will win this game?
Sky
58%
 58%  [ 7 ]
Wings
41%
 41%  [ 5 ]
Total Votes : 12

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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 07/16/17 10:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
tfan wrote:
Where do you get WNBA +/- for the season? It seems like good things are always happening when hustling tweener Kayla Thornton is in the game.


Not sure it is the same thing, but net rating is difference between Offensive Rating and Defensive rating so it measures the net impact of the player during time on the floor.

http://www.wnba.com/stats/player-stats-advanced/#?sort=NRTG&dir=1


I've seen that efficiency rating before and wondered what it is about. There is a Wikipedia entry for both offensive rating and defensive rating.

It seems like the offensive rating is more of an individual statistic, whereas defensive rating is more like +/-, applying team results to a player for when they are in the game.

Thornton doesn't do well in +/- or in Net Rating.




Last edited by tfan on 07/16/17 10:34 pm; edited 3 times in total
tfan



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PostPosted: 07/16/17 10:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
tfan wrote:
Where do you get WNBA +/- for the season? It seems like good things are always happening when hustling tweener Kayla Thornton is in the game.

http://lynx.wnba.com/lynx/stats/net_plus_minus.html


Based on the net +/- for the team, the Wings should be starting Plaisance, Christmas, Diggins, Gray and Chong. I like it.


And not playing Thornton much since hers is -2 point something. Which I find surprising.


Shades



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PostPosted: 07/16/17 10:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Gray started the first half of the season. Only fair to start Davis the second half of the season? I'm sure Kendra would agree.

This is why they should deal Christmas before the trade deadline to a club desperate to make a playoff push. Once Powers comes back, there's too many that deserve minutes. But who knows... maybe Powers won't get to 100% this season. They also got Thornton who can play 3-4, and Glory Johnson talks like she wants to move to the perimeter.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 07/16/17 10:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Plus/minus is a deceptive unreliable statistic,similar to def/off rating.How good your +/- is depends on who you're on,and not on the court with.

Atlanta:

Morris-best on team
Holmes-2nd best
Hayes-4th worst
Williams-2nd worst

Conn:
Banham-better than Jones,J.Thomas and Williams

Dallas:
Plaisance-Best on the team and 2x better than Diggins
Johnson-Not even in the top 5

Los Angeles:

Parker-3rd worst and in the negative
Nneka-5th worst and in the negative

*Like really,how's that even possible ?

New york:
Zahui B better than Hartley

Washington:

Meesseman-2nd worst


zune69



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PostPosted: 07/16/17 11:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I'm torn on dallas.On one hand,the wings have a legit shot at getting to the simifinals,on the other hand,a lottery pick in 2018 would be gold.If dallas had a healthy Cambage,a trip to the finals would be a realistic goal.


Admiral_Needa



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 07/16/17 11:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
I'm torn on dallas.On one hand,the wings have a legit shot at getting to the simifinals,on the other hand,a lottery pick in 2018 would be gold.If dallas had a healthy Cambage,a trip to the finals would be a realistic goal.




I used to be rooting for another lottery pick, but now I'm in the playoff-cheering section. Razz

I surmise that Cambage likely wants to return to the Wings because they're actually good now, and more significantly, because they don't need her to play like a franchise player to win games. The other reason, or perhaps rumor, is that Diamond DeShields want to play in Dallas next year. Effectively, that could be their lottery pick if she pulls a Pondexter/Charles/Fowles/EDD to force a trade. Shocked



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wnbashockballa



Joined: 10 Aug 2006
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PostPosted: 07/16/17 11:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Gray started the first half of the season. Only fair to start Davis the second half of the season? I'm sure Kendra would agree.

This is why they should deal Christmas before the trade deadline to a club desperate to make a playoff push. Once Powers comes back, there's too many that deserve minutes. But who knows... maybe Powers won't get to 100% this season. They also got Thornton who can play 3-4, and Glory Johnson talks like she wants to move to the perimeter.


davis is to inconstant she shows flashes of greatness but then plays like gray played tonight plus stupid t/o on most nights dallas man problem is they got too many of the "same type of players" xmas does need to go though



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Luuuc



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PostPosted: 07/17/17 12:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Admiral_Needa wrote:
zune69 wrote:
I'm torn on dallas.On one hand,the wings have a legit shot at getting to the simifinals,on the other hand,a lottery pick in 2018 would be gold.If dallas had a healthy Cambage,a trip to the finals would be a realistic goal.




I used to be rooting for another lottery pick, but now I'm in the playoff-cheering section. Razz

I surmise that Cambage likely wants to return to the Wings because they're actually good now, and more significantly, because they don't need her to play like a franchise player to win games. The other reason, or perhaps rumor, is that Diamond DeShields want to play in Dallas next year. Effectively, that could be their lottery pick if she pulls a Pondexter/Charles/Fowles/EDD to force a trade. Shocked


I've always had a soft spot for Tulsa/Dallas, so in most games I find myself hoping they'll win, but if I was primarily a Wings fan then despite lack of franchise success I think I'd still be in tank mode for just a couple more months.
Making the post-season is cool and all, but if you're one-and-done without even getting a home playoff game then I don't imagine it's especially satisfying.

I'd also be doing any long-term planning based on no Liz. While my guess is that she'll make an appearance next season, nothing in her history of choices would point to that turning into an ongoing commitment. (Hopefully it does this time, of course)



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sigur3



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PostPosted: 07/17/17 12:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Crucial victory for the tank against a fellow potential lottery team. Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory not once, but twice! Also overcoming that 3-25 3-point shooting from Dallas.

On a more serious note: is Gray alright? She shot what, 4 air balls today? Very uncharacteristic.

Props to Dallas, to, for turning the ball over just 12 times in 50 minutes.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 07/17/17 2:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Plus/minus is a deceptive unreliable statistic,similar to def/off rating.How good your +/- is depends on who you're on,and not on the court with.

Atlanta:

Morris-best on team
Holmes-2nd best
Hayes-4th worst
Williams-2nd worst

Conn:
Banham-better than Jones,J.Thomas and Williams

Dallas:
Plaisance-Best on the team and 2x better than Diggins
Johnson-Not even in the top 5

Los Angeles:

Parker-3rd worst and in the negative
Nneka-5th worst and in the negative

*Like really, how's that even possible?

New york:
Zahui B better than Hartley

Washington:

Meesseman-2nd worst


I think minutes played should have to be beyond some threshold (e.g. Morris) and ideally, blowout minutes would be removed. Although it would be very hard to determine blowout time since coaches differ on when they will pull starters.

The Parker and Ogwumike numbers are perplexing. But, while I think I did previously see Owumike negative, it now shows her at +3.0.


zune69



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PostPosted: 07/17/17 5:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:

I think minutes played should have to be beyond some threshold (e.g. Morris) and ideally, blowout minutes would be removed. Although it would be very hard to determine blowout time since coaches differ on when they will pull starters.

The Parker and Ogwumike numbers are perplexing. But, while I think I did previously see Owumike negative, it now shows her at +3.0.


Yeah,they just updated the +/- for this week.Nneka went from -1.7 to +3.0...Parker went -5.0 to -5.2......Parker having that bad of a +/- really shows how flawed +/- is.

Thornton's +/- clearly should be higher.But because she's played most of her minutes with the backups,her +/- is in the negative.Even when Thornton is on the floor with Johnson,the numbers don't work in her favor.Teams take advantage of Johnson/Thornton's lack of size.However,the Johnson/Thornton combo can work against smaller teams,or teams with slow centers.


pilight



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PostPosted: 07/17/17 8:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The value of statistic is measured in three areas: Significance, Reliability, and Intelligibility.

Significance is how well the statistic correlates with winning. Ultimately that's why stats are tracked, to see how much a player helps her team win. Raw +/- does fairly well at this, Net +/- is abysmal. Six of the top 10 players in Net +/- play for teams that are .500 or worse. In 2010 the league leader in Net +/- was a rookie (now out of the league) for a team that went 6-28.

Reliability is the extent to which a statistic truly reflects a player's ability. +/- in all its forms is an unmitigated disaster in this area. Look at San Antonio. Last year, among players who played significant minutes Moriah Jefferson had the worst +/- on the team and Haley Peters had the best. This year Jefferson is best on the team and Peters is unemployed. Jefferson is playing better than last year, but not that much better. Did Peters suddenly forget how to do whatever she was doing last year that made her +/- so good? Better yet, look at Mo Currie. In San Antonio she was +5.2 in Net +/-, in Phoenix she is -16.6. If +/- truly reflected her ability, there wouldn't be such a wild swing in her numbers in the same season.

Intelligibility is how easily the statistic is understood or can be explained. Raw +/- is OK in this regard, Net +/- is terrible. You couldn't make the average basketball fan understand Net +/- in five minutes or less. Many of them wouldn't get it if you spent an hour and had visual aids.



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PostPosted: 07/17/17 8:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So net +/- isn't that thing to allow EDD to dunk more easily?



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Iluvacc



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PostPosted: 07/17/17 9:40 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Gray started the first half of the season. Only fair to start Davis the second half of the season? I'm sure Kendra would agree.

This is why they should deal Christmas before the trade deadline to a club desperate to make a playoff push. Once Powers comes back, there's too many that deserve minutes. But who knows... maybe Powers won't get to 100% this season. They also got Thornton who can play 3-4, and Glory Johnson talks like she wants to move to the perimeter.



I saw the game and my first thought was Mama Davis managed to get her way Shocked Laughing I guess the squeaky wheel does get the grease. Twisted Evil


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 07/17/17 9:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Iluvacc wrote:
Shades wrote:
Gray started the first half of the season. Only fair to start Davis the second half of the season? I'm sure Kendra would agree.

This is why they should deal Christmas before the trade deadline to a club desperate to make a playoff push. Once Powers comes back, there's too many that deserve minutes. But who knows... maybe Powers won't get to 100% this season. They also got Thornton who can play 3-4, and Glory Johnson talks like she wants to move to the perimeter.



I saw the game and my first thought was Mama Davis managed to get her way Shocked Laughing I guess the squeaky wheel does get the grease. Twisted Evil


right i checked her twitter this morning to see if she had posted some type of tears of joy for her daughters performance yet , but nothing. Maybe KD told her to shut up finally . Great game though either way KD came to play. These flashes need more consistency though to be taken seriously in this leauge. This aint cockytalk anymore btw



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