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Who should win MVP?
Tina Charles
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
Elena Delle Donne
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Sylvia Fowles
44%
 44%  [ 23 ]
Brittney Griner
36%
 36%  [ 19 ]
Tiffany Hayes
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
Nneka Ogwumike
3%
 3%  [ 2 ]
someone else
11%
 11%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 52

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pilight



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PostPosted: 07/10/17 6:47 am    ::: MVP Reply Reply with quote

Monday Poll time!



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PostPosted: 07/10/17 7:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Still no Jonquel Jones in this poll. Crying or Very sad



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Ay Mate



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PostPosted: 07/10/17 9:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Still no Jonquel Jones in this poll. Crying or Very sad


I guess she's the 'someone else'.

For me, it's Brittney Griner now over Sylvia Fowles.

The Mercury returned just 2 players from last year and a lot of people thought they'd struggle this year but they are in 3rd place now and it's because Brittney Griner is having a monster year, outdoing the rest and having to do it mostly by herself.


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PostPosted: 07/10/17 10:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ay Mate wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Still no Jonquel Jones in this poll. Crying or Very sad


I guess she's the 'someone else'.

For me, it's Brittney Griner now over Sylvia Fowles.

The Mercury returned just 2 players from last year and a lot of people thought they'd struggle this year but they are in 3rd place now and it's because Brittney Griner is having a monster year, outdoing the rest and having to do it mostly by herself.

Besides the fact Fowles destroyed her head to head.



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PostPosted: 07/10/17 10:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

My vote has not changed. The best player on the best team.



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PostPosted: 07/10/17 11:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Fowles has dominated Griner head to head the past few seasons. Fowles is the front runner and for a good reason.


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PostPosted: 07/10/17 11:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Head-to-head only breaks ties for me. The Mercury are still 10-6, though I'll give them credit for not disappointing (or being better than expected) compared to other teams in their tier (New York?)
My MVP so far goes to (drum roll)… Sylvia Fowles 1st place, and Griner 2nd! Smile


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PostPosted: 07/10/17 11:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Still no Jonquel Jones in this poll. Crying or Very sad


I guess she's the 'someone else'.

For me, it's Brittney Griner now over Sylvia Fowles.

The Mercury returned just 2 players from last year and a lot of people thought they'd struggle this year but they are in 3rd place now and it's because Brittney Griner is having a monster year, outdoing the rest and having to do it mostly by herself.

Besides the fact Fowles destroyed her head to head.


To be fair BG did have foul trouble that game , so i wont say Destroyed her Head to Head. She didnt have that many opportunities in game 1 .



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PostPosted: 07/10/17 11:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
justintyme wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Still no Jonquel Jones in this poll. Crying or Very sad


I guess she's the 'someone else'.

For me, it's Brittney Griner now over Sylvia Fowles.

The Mercury returned just 2 players from last year and a lot of people thought they'd struggle this year but they are in 3rd place now and it's because Brittney Griner is having a monster year, outdoing the rest and having to do it mostly by herself.

Besides the fact Fowles destroyed her head to head.


To be fair BG did have foul trouble that game , so i wont say Destroyed her Head to Head. She didnt have that many opportunities in game 1 .


She still got in foul trouble.


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PostPosted: 07/10/17 11:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Griner often getting into dumbass foul trouble (and her complete inability to set a legal screen) is one of the marks against her, though. And she was in foul trouble in that game against Minnesota partly due to her inability to deal with Fowles.

I think there is a case to be made for Griner over Fowles, but it largely comes down to that ever-malleable word 'value'. We've seen how good that Minnesota team can be without centering around Fowles, and if they had someone average like Krystal Thomas or a vaguely healthy Aneika Henry-Morello at center, they'd still win 20+ games. They'd probably do it perfectly well even with the current squad minus Fowles. On the other hand, the current Phoenix squad would be utterly screwed without Griner. The defense would collapse, and their sole offensive option would be Taurasi jacking threes from 30ft. They'd probably be tanking for a draft pick if Griner wasn't there, and it wouldn't even require much in the way of active tanking.



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PostPosted: 07/10/17 11:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"Most Valuable Player" is closer to "Most Outstanding Player" to me than "Most Irreplaceable Player to Their Team Due to the Player's Team's Lack of Depth and/or Additional Star Power".


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PostPosted: 07/10/17 12:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Griner often getting into dumbass foul trouble (and her complete inability to set a legal screen) is one of the marks against her, though. And she was in foul trouble in that game against Minnesota partly due to her inability to deal with Fowles.

I think there is a case to be made for Griner over Fowles, but it largely comes down to that ever-malleable word 'value'. We've seen how good that Minnesota team can be without centering around Fowles, and if they had someone average like Krystal Thomas or a vaguely healthy Aneika Henry-Morello at center, they'd still win 20+ games. They'd probably do it perfectly well even with the current squad minus Fowles. On the other hand, the current Phoenix squad would be utterly screwed without Griner. The defense would collapse, and their sole offensive option would be Taurasi jacking threes from 30ft. They'd probably be tanking for a draft pick if Griner wasn't there, and it wouldn't even require much in the way of active tanking.


And I would add that Phoenix is significantly better than most expected, and the sole reason for that is Griner playing the way she's capable of.



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PostPosted: 07/10/17 12:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Phoenix has surprised me this season. Talbot as their starting SF; Cannon, George, Turner, etc. on their bench. Thought they'd be tanking this season instead.



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PostPosted: 07/10/17 12:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Griner often getting into dumbass foul trouble (and her complete inability to set a legal screen) is one of the marks against her, though. And she was in foul trouble in that game against Minnesota partly due to her inability to deal with Fowles.

I think there is a case to be made for Griner over Fowles, but it largely comes down to that ever-malleable word 'value'. We've seen how good that Minnesota team can be without centering around Fowles, and if they had someone average like Krystal Thomas or a vaguely healthy Aneika Henry-Morello at center, they'd still win 20+ games. They'd probably do it perfectly well even with the current squad minus Fowles. On the other hand, the current Phoenix squad would be utterly screwed without Griner. The defense would collapse, and their sole offensive option would be Taurasi jacking threes from 30ft. They'd probably be tanking for a draft pick if Griner wasn't there, and it wouldn't even require much in the way of active tanking.


And I would add that Phoenix is significantly better than most expected, and the sole reason for that is Griner playing the way she's capable of.


I endorse this message _________x



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PostPosted: 07/10/17 1:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Griner often getting into dumbass foul trouble (and her complete inability to set a legal screen) is one of the marks against her, though. And she was in foul trouble in that game against Minnesota partly due to her inability to deal with Fowles.

I think there is a case to be made for Griner over Fowles, but it largely comes down to that ever-malleable word 'value'. We've seen how good that Minnesota team can be without centering around Fowles, and if they had someone average like Krystal Thomas or a vaguely healthy Aneika Henry-Morello at center, they'd still win 20+ games. They'd probably do it perfectly well even with the current squad minus Fowles. On the other hand, the current Phoenix squad would be utterly screwed without Griner. The defense would collapse, and their sole offensive option would be Taurasi jacking threes from 30ft. They'd probably be tanking for a draft pick if Griner wasn't there, and it wouldn't even require much in the way of active tanking.

But even with that argument of "value", I would give it to Fowles. Maya has been playing very poorly this year and the other stars have to play limited time due to age. Think about what Minny's D would look like with Fowles.

Without Fowles would the Lynx be a lottery team? No. But would they be in comfortable position to hold one of the all important top two seeds? With Maya playing as she has? I doubt it. That is major "value" Fowles is providing.



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PostPosted: 07/10/17 1:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Griner often getting into dumbass foul trouble (and her complete inability to set a legal screen) is one of the marks against her, though. And she was in foul trouble in that game against Minnesota partly due to her inability to deal with Fowles.

I think there is a case to be made for Griner over Fowles, but it largely comes down to that ever-malleable word 'value'. We've seen how good that Minnesota team can be without centering around Fowles, and if they had someone average like Krystal Thomas or a vaguely healthy Aneika Henry-Morello at center, they'd still win 20+ games. They'd probably do it perfectly well even with the current squad minus Fowles. On the other hand, the current Phoenix squad would be utterly screwed without Griner. The defense would collapse, and their sole offensive option would be Taurasi jacking threes from 30ft. They'd probably be tanking for a draft pick if Griner wasn't there, and it wouldn't even require much in the way of active tanking.

But even with that argument of "value", I would give it to Fowles. Maya has been playing very poorly this year and the other stars have to play limited time due to age. Think about what Minny's D would look like with Fowles.

Without Fowles would the Lynx be a lottery team? No. But would they be in comfortable position to hold one of the all important top two seeds? With Maya playing as she has? I doubt it. That is major "value" Fowles is providing.


PHX without BG vs Minny Without Big Syl ....The Answer is obvious



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PostPosted: 07/10/17 1:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Griner often getting into dumbass foul trouble (and her complete inability to set a legal screen) is one of the marks against her, though. And she was in foul trouble in that game against Minnesota partly due to her inability to deal with Fowles.

I think there is a case to be made for Griner over Fowles, but it largely comes down to that ever-malleable word 'value'. We've seen how good that Minnesota team can be without centering around Fowles, and if they had someone average like Krystal Thomas or a vaguely healthy Aneika Henry-Morello at center, they'd still win 20+ games. They'd probably do it perfectly well even with the current squad minus Fowles. On the other hand, the current Phoenix squad would be utterly screwed without Griner. The defense would collapse, and their sole offensive option would be Taurasi jacking threes from 30ft. They'd probably be tanking for a draft pick if Griner wasn't there, and it wouldn't even require much in the way of active tanking.

But even with that argument of "value", I would give it to Fowles. Maya has been playing very poorly this year and the other stars have to play limited time due to age. Think about what Minny's D would look like with Fowles.

Without Fowles would the Lynx be a lottery team? No. But would they be in comfortable position to hold one of the all important top two seeds? With Maya playing as she has? I doubt it. That is major "value" Fowles is providing.

But how much of Maya's crappy play is because of the changes made to the offense due to the presence of Fowles? They don't run stuff for her and Augustus in quite the same way that they used to, because so many of the sets are designed to feed Fowles down low. If Fowles wasn't there, I think she might well be scoring better, because a lower proportion of her attempts would be those quick-fire jacked-up things she's been repeatedly chucking up this year.

And I know it's been a couple of years, and everyone's a little older, but this team could defend like a top-end squad even before Fowles arrived. If they were starting Howard/Brunson or Brunson/Mediocre Center in the paint, I think they'd probably still be annoyingly good.

I'm not saying it's anyone other than Fowles, or that I wouldn't vote for her - I'm just saying that as long as they call the award 'Most Valuable', there's a case to be made for an alternative like Griner.



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PostPosted: 07/10/17 1:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Griner often getting into dumbass foul trouble (and her complete inability to set a legal screen) is one of the marks against her, though. And she was in foul trouble in that game against Minnesota partly due to her inability to deal with Fowles.

I think there is a case to be made for Griner over Fowles, but it largely comes down to that ever-malleable word 'value'. We've seen how good that Minnesota team can be without centering around Fowles, and if they had someone average like Krystal Thomas or a vaguely healthy Aneika Henry-Morello at center, they'd still win 20+ games. They'd probably do it perfectly well even with the current squad minus Fowles. On the other hand, the current Phoenix squad would be utterly screwed without Griner. The defense would collapse, and their sole offensive option would be Taurasi jacking threes from 30ft. They'd probably be tanking for a draft pick if Griner wasn't there, and it wouldn't even require much in the way of active tanking.


And I would add that Phoenix is significantly better than most expected, and the sole reason for that is Griner playing the way she's capable of.


I endorse this message _________x


And I second it. Everyone is saying Fowles so you know she will most likely get it but BG is #1 in points so without her points the Merc wouldn't be #3 in the standings.


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PostPosted: 07/10/17 3:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bballgrl wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Griner often getting into dumbass foul trouble (and her complete inability to set a legal screen) is one of the marks against her, though. And she was in foul trouble in that game against Minnesota partly due to her inability to deal with Fowles.

I think there is a case to be made for Griner over Fowles, but it largely comes down to that ever-malleable word 'value'. We've seen how good that Minnesota team can be without centering around Fowles, and if they had someone average like Krystal Thomas or a vaguely healthy Aneika Henry-Morello at center, they'd still win 20+ games. They'd probably do it perfectly well even with the current squad minus Fowles. On the other hand, the current Phoenix squad would be utterly screwed without Griner. The defense would collapse, and their sole offensive option would be Taurasi jacking threes from 30ft. They'd probably be tanking for a draft pick if Griner wasn't there, and it wouldn't even require much in the way of active tanking.


And I would add that Phoenix is significantly better than most expected, and the sole reason for that is Griner playing the way she's capable of.


I endorse this message _________x


And I second it. Everyone is saying Fowles so you know she will most likely get it but BG is #1 in points so without her points the Merc wouldn't be #3 in the standings.


Not even just points. She has now found a way to be an offensive threat and still keep her defensive presence as well. Phoenix looks completely different both offensive and defensively when she's not on the floor.



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PostPosted: 07/10/17 3:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
justintyme wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Griner often getting into dumbass foul trouble (and her complete inability to set a legal screen) is one of the marks against her, though. And she was in foul trouble in that game against Minnesota partly due to her inability to deal with Fowles.

I think there is a case to be made for Griner over Fowles, but it largely comes down to that ever-malleable word 'value'. We've seen how good that Minnesota team can be without centering around Fowles, and if they had someone average like Krystal Thomas or a vaguely healthy Aneika Henry-Morello at center, they'd still win 20+ games. They'd probably do it perfectly well even with the current squad minus Fowles. On the other hand, the current Phoenix squad would be utterly screwed without Griner. The defense would collapse, and their sole offensive option would be Taurasi jacking threes from 30ft. They'd probably be tanking for a draft pick if Griner wasn't there, and it wouldn't even require much in the way of active tanking.

But even with that argument of "value", I would give it to Fowles. Maya has been playing very poorly this year and the other stars have to play limited time due to age. Think about what Minny's D would look like with Fowles.

Without Fowles would the Lynx be a lottery team? No. But would they be in comfortable position to hold one of the all important top two seeds? With Maya playing as she has? I doubt it. That is major "value" Fowles is providing.

But how much of Maya's crappy play is because of the changes made to the offense due to the presence of Fowles? They don't run stuff for her and Augustus in quite the same way that they used to, because so many of the sets are designed to feed Fowles down low. If Fowles wasn't there, I think she might well be scoring better, because a lower proportion of her attempts would be those quick-fire jacked-up things she's been repeatedly chucking up this year.

And I know it's been a couple of years, and everyone's a little older, but this team could defend like a top-end squad even before Fowles arrived. If they were starting Howard/Brunson or Brunson/Mediocre Center in the paint, I think they'd probably still be annoyingly good.

I'm not saying it's anyone other than Fowles, or that I wouldn't vote for her - I'm just saying that as long as they call the award 'Most Valuable', there's a case to be made for an alternative like Griner.


I think its a bit harsh to blame Fowles and her central role in their offense for Maya's crappy play this season. She is the so called the best player of the world so if she cant play great with another player as the first option then she might not be the best player.. Also with all the defensive attention to Fowles she should of been getting more open opportunities then when she is the first option.

Tbh i just think Maya is having a down year. She has missed wide open shots. Cant blame her for that and certainly you cant blame Fowles for that or Reeve for choosing Fowles as their number 1 option.

IMO Fowles is still ahead of Griner but not by much. Griner will need to show up in her next matchup with Fowles though and continue her fantastic play in the 2nd half of the season. If the Mercury finish 3rd then my vote goes to Griner for sure..



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PostPosted: 07/10/17 6:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Back to Fowles v Griner for MVP. Right now it's almost a dead heat for me. I give Big Syl the tiniest of edges due to sustained outstanding play throughout the season. Griner is coming on STRONG.

There is nobody else in the running right now.

Way behind these two:

Tina Charles
Nneka Ogwumike
Jonquel Jones
Elena Delle Donne

CP3 disqualifies herself by being a complete NO SHOW in some games, possible exception of Tiff Hayes.

NOTE: Very tough year for guards. There's Skyler, Birdie and Chelsea. Big fat zero for wings.



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PostPosted: 07/10/17 6:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not that tough. Diggins-Smith, Jasmine Thomas, and Tiffany Hayes are all having excellent years and are the top three guards this year.

I don't see a huge gap to Tina Charles or Nneka either.


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PostPosted: 07/10/17 7:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't get the no love for Jonquel Jones. She's top three in the MVP race. Is it because she plays for Connecticut and not a powerhouse team like Minnesota or Los Angeles? Some people putting Ogwumike, Charles or Delle Donne ahead of her.



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PostPosted: 07/10/17 8:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
I don't get the no love for Jonquel Jones. She's top three in the MVP race. Is it because she plays for Connecticut and not a powerhouse team like Minnesota or Los Angeles? Some people putting Ogwumike, Charles or Delle Donne ahead of her.


Probably. The Sun have beaten MN, DC, SEA and NY lately though. But is still the "no respect" team. Jones is their best player. Should get some love.


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PostPosted: 07/10/17 9:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I like Jones a lot. I liked and followed her in college. I still like her.

She's playing great. I just don't think she takes over games to quite the same extent as the others.

BTW, I don't see EDD belonging in the discussion this year.


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PostPosted: 07/10/17 10:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

MVP
2016 Ogwumike #3 scorer 19.7 ppg | Charles & Dell Donne #1 scorers 21.5 ppg
66.5% fgp; Sparks love

2015 Delle Donne #1 scorer 23.4 ppg | Moore #2 scorer 20.6 ppg
League directive sent her to the line an obscene 7.0 times per game, giving her a 2.6 ppg advantage at the line over the #2 scorer

2014 Moore #1 scorer 23.9 ppg | Diggins #2 scorer 20.1 ppg

2013 Parker #6 scorer 17.9 ppg | McCoughtry #1 scorer 21.5 ppg
McCoughtry tends to be high turnover, low fpg%. Parker was reach; Sparks love

2012 Charles #5 scorer 18.0 ppg | McCoughtry #1 scorer 21.4 ppg
10.5 rpg; 48.9% fgp | McCoughtry 4.0 tpg

2011 Catchings #11 scorer 15.5 ppg | McCoughtry #1 scorer 21.6 ppg
Sympathy MVP, felt retirement was eminent | No media love for McCoughtry

2010 Jackson #5 scorer 20.5 ppg | Taurasi #1 scorer 22.6 ppg

2009 Taurasi #2 scorer 20.4 ppg | Augustus #1 scorer 21.0 ppg
Augustus on bad team

2008 Parker #5 scorer 18.5 ppg | Taurasi #1 scorer 24.1 ppg
9.5 rpg; 52.0% fgp; fan voting segment implemented only this year... fans love rookies; Media Sparks love





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Michelle89



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PostPosted: 07/11/17 12:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
I don't get the no love for Jonquel Jones. She's top three in the MVP race. Is it because she plays for Connecticut and not a powerhouse team like Minnesota or Los Angeles? Some people putting Ogwumike, Charles or Delle Donne ahead of her.


Its maybe because Jasmine Thomas has been leading them aswell and could make an argument on who is playng the best for them. She probably takes some votes away while Charles and EDD are really the leading options for their team

Numbers:
Fowles 20,1 pts 10 rebounds on 66,6% shooting from the field
Griner 22,4 pts 8,4 rebounds on 58% shooting from the field
Jones 15,9 pts 11,8 rebounds on 53,7% shooting from the field

Jasmine Thomas 15 pts and 5,2 assists on 44% shooting from the field and 47% from behind the arc.

Scoring is very important if you want to win MVP and the difference between Jones and Fowles/Griner is pretty big in that department.
Is Catchings the only player to get an MVP award averaging only around 15 pts?



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PostPosted: 07/11/17 8:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
Is Catchings the only player to get an MVP award averaging only around 15 pts?


How close is "around"? Lisa Leslie won at 17.6 ppg in 2004. Candace Parker won at 17.9 ppg in 2013. Those are the next two lowest after Catchings' 15.5 ppg in 2011.



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PostPosted: 07/11/17 4:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's very entertaining to watch the BG-Fowles MVP debate. For once, I'm not the one pleading BG' s case. It's just interesting, I remember a few people on here saying, "I don't see the hype around Griner. What's so special about her? She's 6'8", she should be..." Well.

Of course, I'm going with BG for MVP



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PostPosted: 07/12/17 10:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

SCook wrote:
It's very entertaining to watch the BG-Fowles MVP debate. For once, I'm not the one pleading BG' s case. It's just interesting, I remember a few people on here saying, "I don't see the hype around Griner. What's so special about her? She's 6'8", she should be..." Well.

Of course, I'm going with BG for MVP


Nobody likes Goliath or Goliathess. If her team wins you will hear, "Of course, they have this 6'9" giant, they're supposed to win!" If her team loses you will hear, "How could they possibly lose: they have this 6'9" giant!?!"

The same scenario played out even much more so for Wilt "the Stilt" Chamberlain when he was the most dominant player the NBA has ever seen.



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PostPosted: 07/16/17 4:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Da Real MVP: Crystal Longhorne! Wink efficiency is all the rage for MVP I heard


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