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Chicago Tribune: Dissolve Illinois

 
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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 06/21/17 11:09 pm    ::: Chicago Tribune: Dissolve Illinois Reply Reply with quote

What to do with a broken Illinois: Dissolve the Land of Lincoln
Quote:

Illinois is like Venezuela now, a fiscally broken state that has lost its will to live, although for the moment, we still have enough toilet paper.

But before we run out of the essentials, let's finally admit that after decade upon decade of taxing and spending and borrowing, Illinois has finally run out of other people's money.

. . . . And now Illinois faces doomsday.

. . . we need a plan.

And here it is:

Dissolve Illinois. Decommission the state, tear up the charter, whatever the legal mumbo-jumbo, just end the whole dang thing.

The best thing to do is to break Illinois into pieces right now. Just wipe us off the map. Cut us out of America's heartland and let neighboring states carve us up and take the best chunks for themselves.

As you can see by the excellent "Kevorkian Illinois" map that accompanies this column, this plan is visionary.


tfan



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PostPosted: 06/22/17 12:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not surprised to see something written like that, but it is surprising to see it in the Chicago Tribune. I would give the Chicago Metro area it's own region. Either a separate state or whatever the District of Columbia is.


justintyme



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PostPosted: 06/22/17 1:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Not surprised to see something written like that, but it is surprising to see it in the Chicago Tribune. I would give the Chicago Metro area it's own region. Either a separate state or whatever the District of Columbia is.

It's the Chicago Tribune and John Kass. Might as well be the Fox News channel and Sean Hannity.

I mean he is comparing Illinois to Venezuela for the obvious reasons, even though the two have nothing real in common.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 06/22/17 2:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
tfan wrote:
Not surprised to see something written like that, but it is surprising to see it in the Chicago Tribune. I would give the Chicago Metro area it's own region. Either a separate state or whatever the District of Columbia is.

It's the Chicago Tribune and John Kass. Might as well be the Fox News channel and Sean Hannity.

I mean he is comparing Illinois to Venezuela for the obvious reasons, even though the two have nothing real in common.


Illinois is a blue state. Chicago must be the bluest part of that state. The Chicago Tribune is the biggest newspaper in a blue city in a blue state. Why would it be equivalent to Fox News?


justintyme



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PostPosted: 06/22/17 2:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
justintyme wrote:
tfan wrote:
Not surprised to see something written like that, but it is surprising to see it in the Chicago Tribune. I would give the Chicago Metro area it's own region. Either a separate state or whatever the District of Columbia is.

It's the Chicago Tribune and John Kass. Might as well be the Fox News channel and Sean Hannity.

I mean he is comparing Illinois to Venezuela for the obvious reasons, even though the two have nothing real in common.


Illinois is a blue state. Chicago must be the bluest part of that state. The Chicago Tribune is the biggest newspaper in a blue city in a blue state. Why would it be equivalent to Fox News?

Because it is a right leaning paper.

Chicago Tribune

Quote:
In a 2007 statement of principles published in the Tribune's print and online editions, the paper's editorial board described the newspaper's philosophy, from which is excerpted the following:

The Chicago Tribune believes in the traditional principles of limited government; maximum individual responsibility; minimum restriction of personal liberty, opportunity and enterprise. It believes in free markets, free will and freedom of expression. These principles, while traditionally conservative, are guidelines and not reflexive dogmas.
The Tribune brings a Midwestern sensibility to public debate. It is suspicious of untested ideas
.

It is not nearly as biased as Fox, but Kass definitely doesn't like entitlements and taxing rich people, or raising minimum wages, etc. It is why he didn't create a "Chicago" region in his divying up of the state. He doesn't like tax and spend democrats.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 06/22/17 7:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
justintyme wrote:
tfan wrote:
Not surprised to see something written like that, but it is surprising to see it in the Chicago Tribune. I would give the Chicago Metro area it's own region. Either a separate state or whatever the District of Columbia is.

It's the Chicago Tribune and John Kass. Might as well be the Fox News channel and Sean Hannity.

I mean he is comparing Illinois to Venezuela for the obvious reasons, even though the two have nothing real in common.


Illinois is a blue state. Chicago must be the bluest part of that state. The Chicago Tribune is the biggest newspaper in a blue city in a blue state. Why would it be equivalent to Fox News?


I suppose for the same reason the NY Post, a big newspaper in the bluest part of a blue state, is right wing. Maybe because that's the way the owners want it to be?

Really, I'm surprised anyone would be unfamiliar with the Tribune's well known and long-standing editorial slant. It's nearly equivalent to someone expressing surprise at the NY Times having a liberal slant.


StevenHW



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PostPosted: 06/22/17 10:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I seem to recall shortly after Obama was re-elected after winning the 2012 Presidential Election, that at least 15 states filed to secede from the Union.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 06/22/17 10:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

StevenHW wrote:
I seem to recall shortly after Obama was re-elected after winning the 2012 Presidential Election, that at least 15 states filed to secede from the Union.


More than that have done so since Trump was elected



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tfan



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PostPosted: 06/22/17 1:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
tfan wrote:
justintyme wrote:
tfan wrote:
Not surprised to see something written like that, but it is surprising to see it in the Chicago Tribune. I would give the Chicago Metro area it's own region. Either a separate state or whatever the District of Columbia is.

It's the Chicago Tribune and John Kass. Might as well be the Fox News channel and Sean Hannity.

I mean he is comparing Illinois to Venezuela for the obvious reasons, even though the two have nothing real in common.


Illinois is a blue state. Chicago must be the bluest part of that state. The Chicago Tribune is the biggest newspaper in a blue city in a blue state. Why would it be equivalent to Fox News?


I suppose for the same reason the NY Post, a big newspaper in the bluest part of a blue state, is right wing. Maybe because that's the way the owners want it to be?

Really, I'm surprised anyone would be unfamiliar with the Tribune's well known and long-standing editorial slant. It's nearly equivalent to someone expressing surprise at the NY Times having a liberal slant.


The owners also want to sell a lot of newspapers. Usually they want to sell as many newspapers as possible. A newspaper can "preach red" in a blue city/state and maximize sales if they are going for the people that a larger "blue preaching" newspaper is missing. But the Tribune is the largest newspaper in Chicago so I would think they maximize sales by "preaching blue".


tfan



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PostPosted: 06/22/17 1:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:


It is not nearly as biased as Fox, but Kass definitely doesn't like entitlements and taxing rich people, or raising minimum wages, etc. .


I hate it when the Republicans use the term "entitlements" to refer to Social Security and Medicare, as if people have wrongly decided that they are entitled to them.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 06/22/17 1:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
tfan wrote:
justintyme wrote:
tfan wrote:
Not surprised to see something written like that, but it is surprising to see it in the Chicago Tribune. I would give the Chicago Metro area it's own region. Either a separate state or whatever the District of Columbia is.

It's the Chicago Tribune and John Kass. Might as well be the Fox News channel and Sean Hannity.

I mean he is comparing Illinois to Venezuela for the obvious reasons, even though the two have nothing real in common.


Illinois is a blue state. Chicago must be the bluest part of that state. The Chicago Tribune is the biggest newspaper in a blue city in a blue state. Why would it be equivalent to Fox News?


I suppose for the same reason the NY Post, a big newspaper in the bluest part of a blue state, is right wing. Maybe because that's the way the owners want it to be?

Really, I'm surprised anyone would be unfamiliar with the Tribune's well known and long-standing editorial slant. It's nearly equivalent to someone expressing surprise at the NY Times having a liberal slant.


The owners also want to sell a lot of newspapers. Usually they want to sell as many newspapers as possible. A newspaper can "preach red" in a blue city/state and maximize sales if they are going for the people that a larger "blue preaching" newspaper is missing. But the Tribune is the largest newspaper in Chicago so I would think they maximize sales by "preaching blue".


I can't think of a single newspaper where the editorial policy is the result of "want[ing] to sell a lot of newspapers." It is invariably a longstanding, historical position.

If you've got some examples of papers that actually support your assertion, I'd love to hear what they are.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 06/22/17 2:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Gee willikers, guys, it's an over-the-top humor piece by a columnist. I just thought it was clever and well written prose.
justintyme



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PostPosted: 06/22/17 2:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
tfan wrote:
justintyme wrote:
tfan wrote:
Not surprised to see something written like that, but it is surprising to see it in the Chicago Tribune. I would give the Chicago Metro area it's own region. Either a separate state or whatever the District of Columbia is.

It's the Chicago Tribune and John Kass. Might as well be the Fox News channel and Sean Hannity.

I mean he is comparing Illinois to Venezuela for the obvious reasons, even though the two have nothing real in common.


Illinois is a blue state. Chicago must be the bluest part of that state. The Chicago Tribune is the biggest newspaper in a blue city in a blue state. Why would it be equivalent to Fox News?


I suppose for the same reason the NY Post, a big newspaper in the bluest part of a blue state, is right wing. Maybe because that's the way the owners want it to be?

Really, I'm surprised anyone would be unfamiliar with the Tribune's well known and long-standing editorial slant. It's nearly equivalent to someone expressing surprise at the NY Times having a liberal slant.


The owners also want to sell a lot of newspapers. Usually they want to sell as many newspapers as possible. A newspaper can "preach red" in a blue city/state and maximize sales if they are going for the people that a larger "blue preaching" newspaper is missing. But the Tribune is the largest newspaper in Chicago so I would think they maximize sales by "preaching blue".

Besides the historical perspective that Art correctly pointed out, your logic is also flawes. You are making the assumption that because the majority in the area votes blue that the majority of likely consumers of newspapers are also blue. If you figure that most readers of newpapers are older and wealthier, that is probably not true. Add in that most of the major newspapers do have a left leaning editorial slant (eg: NYT, etc) and that digital subscriptions that reach a wider audience also play a role in their figures, being one of the few conservative papers can allow them a monopoly of sorts (think why Fox News has so many viewers: it is because they are alone in their slant while the others are neutral or lean left).



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 06/22/17 2:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Gee willikers, guys, it's an over-the-top humor piece by a columnist. I just thought it was clever and well written prose.

While humor, it was still pointed. We were commenting on his underlying assumptions/conclusions.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 06/22/17 3:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:


I can't think of a single newspaper where the editorial policy is the result of "want[ing] to sell a lot of newspapers." It is invariably a longstanding, historical position.

If you've got some examples of papers that actually support your assertion, I'd love to hear what they are.


Do you feel that there is no correlation between a newspaper's editorial position and the redness/blueness of the state they are in?


tfan



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PostPosted: 06/22/17 4:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:

Besides the historical perspective that Art correctly pointed out, your logic is also flawed. You are making the assumption that because the majority in the area votes blue that the majority of likely consumers of newspapers are also blue. If you figure that most readers of newpapers are older and wealthier, that is probably not true. Add in that most of the major newspapers do have a left leaning editorial slant (eg: NYT, etc) and that digital subscriptions that reach a wider audience also play a role in their figures, being one of the few conservative papers can allow them a monopoly of sorts (think why Fox News has so many viewers: it is because they are alone in their slant while the others are neutral or lean left).


In 1847 when someone founded the paper it is easy to see it having a personal political slant. And as long as it is one (or a few) owner, I can see them pushing a political slant. But once it gets owned by Tronc, Inc., a company that also owns the Los Angeles Times, Baltimore Sun, Orlando Sentinel, South Florida Sun-Sentinel, Hartford Courant, San Diego Union-Tribune, and a few other smaller papers, it becomes harder to see a political slant getting pushed by the owners.

I agree that newspaper readers are older and wealthier. And whiter. So it is possible that the the majority of readers are red, even in a blue big city (not named San Francisco).

I would guess that digital city newspaper subscriptions from people outside of a city, who aren't from that city, are probably low (unless it is the New York Times). But maybe people in the low-density mid-west do want to read a larger newspaper than their local one and the Chicago paper fits best.


justintyme



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PostPosted: 06/22/17 5:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:

In 1847 when someone founded the paper it is easy to see it having a personal political slant. And as long as it is one (or a few) owner, I can see them pushing a political slant. But once it gets owned by Tronc, Inc., a company that also owns the Los Angeles Times, Baltimore Sun, Orlando Sentinel, South Florida Sun-Sentinel, Hartford Courant, San Diego Union-Tribune, and a few other smaller papers, it becomes harder to see a political slant getting pushed by the owners.


Dude, read the editorial board's own words that I linked to above. They are not pretending that they don't have a slant, just the same as the NYT editorial staff doesn't pretend that they don't slant to the left. This is all openly admitted to in their POV statements. It is not some third party labeling based upon perceived bias. They are considered right leaning because they claim it themselves.

You are basically throwing assumptions and inferences and "hard to see" arguments up against stated fact. It may be hard to understand or not make sense to you as to how or why they do it, but the fact of the matter is that they do do it. Openly.

But also note that it is not the owners who set the tone. Most of these corporations try to keep a hands off policy when it comes to the newsroom and the editorial board. They do this to keep conflict of interest talks to a minimum. They might push numbers or set budgets, but they don’t regulate content for the most part.

So the tone is set by the editorial board and the columnists themselves.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 06/22/17 5:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:


I can't think of a single newspaper where the editorial policy is the result of "want[ing] to sell a lot of newspapers." It is invariably a longstanding, historical position.

If you've got some examples of papers that actually support your assertion, I'd love to hear what they are.


Do you feel that there is no correlation between a newspaper's editorial position and the redness/blueness of the state they are in?


Correct. Sometimes they match, sometimes they don't. Sometimes it may be a regional influence, sometimes it isn't. You certainly can't assume a correlation or a cause and effect.

And in no case do I think the editorial policy was set specifically as a marketing ploy to sell more papers.

I'm still waiting on your examples where you believe it was.


GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 06/24/17 3:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
Gee willikers, guys, it's an over-the-top humor piece by a columnist. I just thought it was clever and well written prose.

While humor, it was still pointed. We were commenting on his underlying assumptions/conclusions.


To me, the important things underlying the dark humor are not political opinions but the economic facts.

AP: Illinois could be 1st state with 'junk' credit due to budget

Quote:
Illinois is on track to become the first U.S. state to have its credit rating downgraded to "junk" status, which would deepen its multibillion-dollar deficit and cost taxpayers more for years to come.


Quote:
The [ratings] agencies are concerned about Illinois' massive pension debt, as well as a $15 billion backlog of unpaid bills and the drop in revenue that occurred when lawmakers in 2015 allowed a temporary income tax increase to expire.


Quote:
"For the taxpayer, it will cost more to get a lower level of service," Battle said.


Quote:
S&P already moved bonds held by the Metropolitan Pier & Exposition Authority and the Illinois Sports Facilities Authority — the entities that run Navy Pier, McCormick Place, and U.S. Cellular Field — to junk.

Five universities also have the rating: Eastern Illinois University, Governors State University, Northeastern Illinois University, Northern Illinois University and Southern Illinois University.
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