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Kelsey Plum, a bust or too early?
Yes
19%
 19%  [ 16 ]
Too early to tell
71%
 71%  [ 59 ]
No
9%
 9%  [ 8 ]
Total Votes : 83

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ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 08/26/17 11:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

She's better, but last five games ...

18 of 50, 8 of 21 from three

27 assists, 23 turnovers

That's definitely below average offense, except for three-point percentage, and from what I've seen, she's a below average defender.

Improvement? Yes. Enough improvement? Not really.

But maybe a year overseas and she'll improve some more.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 08/26/17 4:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Plum has missed an amazing amount of 2 point shots this year for college's all-time scorer, from scoop layups to 10 foot jumpers. But that is probably the easiest thing for her to improve. She did improve on her 3 point shooting from how she started out.

Her ball handling has to improve. She wasn't a full-time point guard in college and it shows. She is very vulnerable to double teams, particularly up top by the sidelines. But along with her turnovers on offense, I think she has a higher than average amount of "nice pass!" passes.

She won't ever be an above average defender because her arms aren't long enough and she isn't tall enough and she doesn't have blazing speed, but she has shown an ability to move laterally fairly quickly, so she can probably get by if her offense is a good enough counter.


Jet Jaguar



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PostPosted: 09/04/17 8:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So with her rookie season over. It's obvious she "can't shoot" (under 35% shooting) and she's turnover prone (1.36 as/to ratio) what do you think will happen to her next year? Maybe this happens:
1. They let her play 6-7 games and if she's not killing it, they sit her for the rest of the season. Because you know, that's how you improve...
2. They cut her mid-season with no trade
3. She is basically out of the league after next year except for a couple cups of coffee when it's obvious the teams don't really intend on using her.


Or what should happen, is she gets an opportunity to improve on a rookie year. You know because young players don't always put up eye popping numbers their first year or so (Vandersloot, January, Diggins, Loyd,etc)

I think all of you can see how ridiculous the first scenario is. But most of you were too stupid to admit it.



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zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
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PostPosted: 09/04/17 9:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Plum:8.5p/3.4a/34%/36%/87%.....Was Plum's rookie season any worst than Diggins/Vandersloot ?

Diggins:8.5p/3.8a/33%/24%/83%

Sloot:6.5p/3.7a/39%/27%/76%

Another thing to consider is that Plum hurt her ankle during preseason.She played much better in the 2nd half of the season.

Last 10 games:
12.4p/5.4/37%/45%/93%

Plum will be a top 4 pg in 3 years.


RP



Joined: 17 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: 09/04/17 9:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Last 20 games:
Code:

 MIN   FGM   FGA    FG%   3PM   3PA    3P%   FTM   FTA    FT%  OREB  DREB   REB   AST   STL   BLK    TO    PTS
28.7   3.6   9.5   37.9   1.5   3.7   41.1   2.7   3.0   90.0   0.4   2.0   2.4   4.4   0.5   0.2   2.9   11.4


Still a high number of turnovers, but that is a minor concern for a rookie point guard.


ClayK



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 09/04/17 10:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The jury is still out ... though some players have taken major steps forward after similar first seasons, others have not.

But SA has little to lose by giving her a serious shot next year, and presumably a winter overseas will help too.



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Jet Jaguar



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PostPosted: 09/04/17 5:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RP wrote:

Still a high number of turnovers, but that is a minor concern for a rookie point guard.

Really? That was not the impression I got. I guess it's only for certain players.



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Jet Jaguar



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PostPosted: 09/04/17 6:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Plum will be a top 4 pg in 3 years.

Wow. Some players get 3 whole years to show what they got. Must be nice...



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Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 09/04/17 7:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Dude. Let it go. If Sammy can, you can.



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Nerd2



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PostPosted: 09/04/17 7:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jet Jaguar wrote:
zune69 wrote:
Plum will be a top 4 pg in 3 years.

Wow. Some players get 3 whole years to show what they got. Must be nice...


Lottery picks in general will get more leeway than other draft picks due to their perceived value. And the statement didn't say they would put up with poor performance for 3 years but rather that she would come in the next year with improvement implied and improve and be elite the year after that

Prahalis was given chances on 4 teams in 3 years. If she didn't come in ready to wow them, that's on her.


Nerd2



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PostPosted: 09/04/17 7:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
The jury is still out ... though some players have taken major steps forward after similar first seasons, others have not.

But SA has little to lose by giving her a serious shot next year, and presumably a winter overseas will help too.


I would not be surprised if they try to trade her though. I love Plum but I think Jefferson and McBride should be their backcourt. Plum would need to play major minutes somewhere in order to improve in her 2nd year.


RP



Joined: 17 Jul 2010
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PostPosted: 09/04/17 7:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jet Jaguar wrote:
RP wrote:

Still a high number of turnovers, but that is a minor concern for a rookie point guard.

Really? That was not the impression I got. I guess it's only for certain players.


There is definitely some luck involved, but Prahalis needed an outside shot to stick at this level. Her career 2P% is only slightly higher than Leilani Mitchell's, who has made her living with a deadly three-pointer.

Plenty of other first/early second rounders with the same fate: Andrea Riley, Alison Lacey, Lindsey Moore, Tiffany Bias, Sam Logic, Brianna Kiesel, etc.


Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 09/04/17 8:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
The jury is still out ... though some players have taken major steps forward after similar first seasons, others have not.

But SA has little to lose by giving her a serious shot next year, and presumably a winter overseas will help too.


I would not be surprised if they try to trade her though. I love Plum but I think Jefferson and McBride should be their backcourt. Plum would need to play major minutes somewhere in order to improve in her 2nd year.

But do they trust Jefferson to stay healthy? After starting this season hurt she was banged up and in and out of the lineup all season long. Now there are those reports of a long-term absence out of Turkey. After already trading away DRob they don't want to give up on another starting point guard option if Jefferson isn't going to be able to stay on the floor.

The head coach decision might play into it as well. Johnson clearly didn't fancy the idea of playing Plum and Jefferson together, but a new head coach might think it could work. Then maybe you're not so keen to ship one of them out.



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Nerd2



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PostPosted: 09/04/17 8:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Nerd2 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
The jury is still out ... though some players have taken major steps forward after similar first seasons, others have not.

But SA has little to lose by giving her a serious shot next year, and presumably a winter overseas will help too.


I would not be surprised if they try to trade her though. I love Plum but I think Jefferson and McBride should be their backcourt. Plum would need to play major minutes somewhere in order to improve in her 2nd year.

But do they trust Jefferson to stay healthy? After starting this season hurt she was banged up and in and out of the lineup all season long. Now there are those reports of a long-term absence out of Turkey. After already trading away DRob they don't want to give up on another starting point guard option if Jefferson isn't going to be able to stay on the floor.

The head coach decision might play into it as well. Johnson clearly didn't fancy the idea of playing Plum and Jefferson together, but a new head coach might think it could work. Then maybe you're not so keen to ship one of them out.


Valid points. I think the big question is whether that knee issue was, say, a consequence of compensating for the ankle injury she suffered on Galatasaray.


pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 09/04/17 8:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
The jury is still out ... though some players have taken major steps forward after similar first seasons, others have not.

But SA has little to lose by giving her a serious shot next year, and presumably a winter overseas will help too.


I would not be surprised if they try to trade her though. I love Plum but I think Jefferson and McBride should be their backcourt. Plum would need to play major minutes somewhere in order to improve in her 2nd year.


Depends how serious Jefferson's injury is. She may not be able to play overseas at all this winter.



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TotalCardinalMove



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PostPosted: 09/05/17 1:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Jefferson probably shouldn't have been playing if she wasn't 100%. Goes to show she's still significantly better than Plum (in Johnson's eyes) even when she's not healthy. I think Jefferson & McBride >>>> over any other possible combination in the backcourt they could make. I think the smarter move would be to trade Plum and just get a backup PG/SG that's a better fit.


J-Spoon



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PostPosted: 09/05/17 2:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Plum and #13 to Seattle for #5.

Most years it would be insane to suggest a #1 pick and something for a #5, but this could be the exception. I could see Seattle being very interested in getting Plum (This could be ab exception to the anti local girl theory as I think Plum fits with the team and would draw fans), but most of the possible draftee at #5 next year (Russell, Turner, Deshields, a falling G. Williams or K. Mitchell) would probably go #1 in 2017. SA can throw in the #13 pick which will still net Seattle a viable rotational player (there should be a few wings and a couple of bigs that have potential still on the board) and bring in Plum who might be a better fit in Seattle behind Bird for a year and in the future as a scary 3rd option on offense with Loyd and Stewart.

SA will once again have a lottery pick hopefully #1 and a #5 pick in a stronger draft. And can draft players specifically to pair with the back-court of Jefferson and McBride. Add say A. Wilson and Deshields, round out the starters with Harrison, you suddenly have a team that fits together and can at least start to build towards competing. Get screwed in the lottery, you could still grab say G. Williams at 2 or 3 and a big Russell, Turner or Billings at #5 and the team still makes more sense. (Maybe Riley could get Seattle to throw their 2nd round pick back so you get Plum and #13 for #5 and #17, #17 in 2018 might be able to beat out Holmes, Murphy, Colson, A. Montgomery or maybe even Coffey or Hamby.)


ClayK



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PostPosted: 09/05/17 10:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Dumping a first-overall pick after one year for anything less than a proven starter or a proven player in the draft (if there is such a thing) is simply not going to happen. The headline would essentially read "We lied and we're stupid too."



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bballjunkie



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PostPosted: 09/05/17 10:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think everyone knew this year was a bust, SA just got caught as everyone else didn't bite the tradebait. Why would Seattle want a PG who doesn't Play D, they already play Clark over better offensive players.


pilight



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PostPosted: 09/05/17 10:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bballjunkie wrote:
Why would Seattle want a PG who doesn't Play D


As a successor to Bird?



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Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 09/05/17 11:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Dumping a first-overall pick after one year for anything less than a proven starter or a proven player in the draft (if there is such a thing) is simply not going to happen. The headline would essentially read "We lied and we're stupid too."


Well the Wings practically did that when they traded Zahui B away after one season. Some one on the Dallas coaching staff probably measured her height and found out that she was NOT six feet five inches tall. Laughing



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 09/05/17 11:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rock Hard wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Dumping a first-overall pick after one year for anything less than a proven starter or a proven player in the draft (if there is such a thing) is simply not going to happen. The headline would essentially read "We lied and we're stupid too."


Well the Wings practically did that when they traded Zahui B away after one season. Some one on the Dallas coaching staff probably measured her height and found out that she was NOT six feet five inches tall. Laughing


And the wings will quietly waive #3 Akhator next year too...or include her in a package deal that lets another team do the waiving.



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Angus24



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PostPosted: 09/05/17 11:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Unless Riley has lost hr mind completely I don't see Plum getting traded to Seattle unless it was for Stewart. I am afraid that Jeffersons future is very iffy at this point with what is evidently a knee problem of the kind you don't fix with surgery. If that is the case I don't see her being the pg of the future for SAS. I think Plum will do just fine as SAS pg of the future. She is bigger, stronger, and a better shooter than Jefferson.


TotalCardinalMove



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PostPosted: 09/05/17 1:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Angus24 wrote:
Unless Riley has lost hr mind completely I don't see Plum getting traded to Seattle unless it was for Stewart. I am afraid that Jeffersons future is very iffy at this point with what is evidently a knee problem of the kind you don't fix with surgery. If that is the case I don't see her being the pg of the future for SAS. I think Plum will do just fine as SAS pg of the future. She is bigger, stronger, and a better shooter than Jefferson.


Plum isn't better than Jefferson at anything by the moment, don't think it's very close. Just compare their rookie seasons.


pilight



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PostPosted: 09/05/17 1:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

TotalCardinalMove wrote:
Angus24 wrote:
Unless Riley has lost hr mind completely I don't see Plum getting traded to Seattle unless it was for Stewart. I am afraid that Jeffersons future is very iffy at this point with what is evidently a knee problem of the kind you don't fix with surgery. If that is the case I don't see her being the pg of the future for SAS. I think Plum will do just fine as SAS pg of the future. She is bigger, stronger, and a better shooter than Jefferson.


Plum isn't better than Jefferson at anything by the moment, don't think it's very close. Just compare their rookie seasons.


She's better at being able to get on the court. The best ability is availability.



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