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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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 Posted: 06/13/17 10:43 pm ::: The Sanders/Warren candidate got thumped in the VA Gov race. |
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The former Congressman endorsed by Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders lost to the Lt Gov backed by Mark Warner, Tim Kaine and Terry McAuliffe in today's Dem primary for Governor. And it wasn't nearly as close as expected.
In the GOP side, a total wackjob candidate Corey Stewart - unabashed Trump supporter vocal opponent of removing Confederate shrines and monuments, and enthusiastically anti-immigrant - nearly upset former RNC head and moderate Ed Gillespie. People are shocked it is as close as it is, and Stewart is talking recount.
A lot of people are seeing this as a proxy battle, with the far left Dem candidate having a disappointing showing, and the far right Trump supporter doing far better than anticipated.
But the moderates did thankfully win in both parties.
But evidently there still are Trump supporters out there.
The Democrats had a record turnout, far surpassing the GOP total.
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PUmatty
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| Posted: 06/13/17 11:12 pm ::: Re: The Sanders/Warren candidate got thumped in the VA Gov r |
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| Like Sanders, his anointed candidates also seem to not be able to actually win elections.
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 06/13/17 11:27 pm ::: Re: The Sanders/Warren candidate got thumped in the VA Gov r |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| Like Sanders, his anointed candidates also seem to not be able to actually win elections. |
Winning primaries against the established parties is not exactly a cakewalk. The tables are slanted heavily against you.
I just like seeing these candidates connecting with the young people. It is just a matter of time before we can finally swing the country left. What would be nice to eventually see is the two parties shift to the point where the Republican Party inhabits the ground of today's establishment Democrats while the Democrats become a true progressive/democratic socialist party. If they can keep the hearts of the young people, it could happen in the next generation or two.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 06/14/17 12:47 am ::: Re: The Sanders/Warren candidate got thumped in the VA Gov r |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
In the GOP side, a total wackjob candidate Corey Stewart - unabashed Trump supporter vocal opponent of removing Confederate shrines and monuments, and enthusiastically anti-immigrant... |
This is a bad mischaracterization, even if the press routinely does it. He does not even appear to be "enthusiastically anti-ILLEGAL-immigration". I only see him talking about getting rid of the criminal ILLEGAL immigrants. I see nothing from him about putting the people who hire ILLEGAL immigrants in jail or out of business, and nothing about raiding businesses to arrest ILLEGAL workers. So he is actually weak on ILLEGAL immigration, just not completely flaccid on iILLEGAL immigration. And certainly he is not saying anything against the sacred cow of legal immigration.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 06/14/17 7:16 am ::: Re: The Sanders/Warren candidate got thumped in the VA Gov r |
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| tfan wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
In the GOP side, a total wackjob candidate Corey Stewart - unabashed Trump supporter vocal opponent of removing Confederate shrines and monuments, and enthusiastically anti-immigrant... |
This is a bad mischaracterization, even if the press routinely does it. He does not even appear to be "enthusiastically anti-ILLEGAL-immigration". I only see him talking about getting rid of the criminal ILLEGAL immigrants. I see nothing from him about putting the people who hire ILLEGAL immigrants in jail or out of business, and nothing about raiding businesses to arrest ILLEGAL workers. So he is actually weak on ILLEGAL immigration, just not completely flaccid on iILLEGAL immigration. And certainly he is not saying anything against the sacred cow of legal immigration. |
Obviously you haven't been paying attention.
Keep the statues of Jefferson Davis, deport the immigrants, and salute Donald Trump. That pretty much sums him up.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 06/14/17 7:27 am ::: Re: The Sanders/Warren candidate got thumped in the VA Gov r |
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| justintyme wrote: |
| PUmatty wrote: |
| Like Sanders, his anointed candidates also seem to not be able to actually win elections. |
Winning primaries against the established parties is not exactly a cakewalk. The tables are slanted heavily against you.
I just like seeing these candidates connecting with the young people. It is just a matter of time before we can finally swing the country left. What would be nice to eventually see is the two parties shift to the point where the Republican Party inhabits the ground of today's establishment Democrats while the Democrats become a true progressive/democratic socialist party. If they can keep the hearts of the young people, it could happen in the next generation or two. |
Perriello is not exactly an outsider. He's a former congressman from a very conservative district. Had the support of Obama and the Obama campaign apparatus. Obama did ads for him. But in the course of the campaign he became most closely associated with Sanders and Warren and it became a race between the left wing of the party vs the moderate wing of the party. It was expected to be very close. Instead they were calling the outcome almost as soon as the polls closed. And to everyone's surprised it was instead the GOP race that was a late night nailbiter.
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 06/14/17 3:35 pm ::: Re: The Sanders/Warren candidate got thumped in the VA Gov r |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
Obviously you haven't been paying attention.
Keep the statues of Jefferson Davis, deport the immigrants, and salute Donald Trump. That pretty much sums him up. |
He also wants to arrest the car drivers and arrest people who have had sex.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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| Posted: 06/15/17 7:55 am ::: Re: The Sanders/Warren candidate got thumped in the VA Gov r |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| Like Sanders, his anointed candidates also seem to not be able to actually win elections. |
Lol. Not too disingenuous.
What is Bernie's career election record, do you suppose?
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 06/15/17 11:20 am ::: Re: The Sanders/Warren candidate got thumped in the VA Gov r |
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| cthskzfn wrote: |
| PUmatty wrote: |
| Like Sanders, his anointed candidates also seem to not be able to actually win elections. |
Lol. Not too disingenuous.
What is Bernie's career election record, do you suppose? |
I was obviously talking about this presidential campaign, after which we are supposed to believe his was somehow the new voice of the Democratic party.
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 06/15/17 12:08 pm ::: Re: The Sanders/Warren candidate got thumped in the VA Gov r |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| cthskzfn wrote: |
| PUmatty wrote: |
| Like Sanders, his anointed candidates also seem to not be able to actually win elections. |
Lol. Not too disingenuous.
What is Bernie's career election record, do you suppose? |
I was obviously talking about this presidential campaign, after which we are supposed to believe his was somehow the new voice of the Democratic party. |
I don't know about that. The "establishment" is the establishment for a reason. I think he was supposed to represent the future of the Democratic party as he was the voice of the Millennial and younger. The question was just if the party as a whole was going to adopt their values or continue as they had for the time being. With the DNC election, it was clear they were trying to have their cake and eat it too, but weren't ready to yet fully commit to the future.
But in sheer numbers the progressive wing is still a minorty until the more moderates die off (or are slowly converted).
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 06/15/17 12:28 pm ::: Re: The Sanders/Warren candidate got thumped in the VA Gov r |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| cthskzfn wrote: |
| PUmatty wrote: |
| Like Sanders, his anointed candidates also seem to not be able to actually win elections. |
Lol. Not too disingenuous.
What is Bernie's career election record, do you suppose? |
I was obviously talking about this presidential campaign, after which we are supposed to believe his was somehow the new voice of the Democratic party. |
His is the voice of the OLD Democratic party, from which the Clinton/Neo-Liberal Era current party establishment has strayed.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 06/15/17 12:36 pm ::: Re: The Sanders/Warren candidate got thumped in the VA Gov r |
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| justintyme wrote: |
| But in sheer numbers the progressive wing is still a minorty until the more moderates die off (or are slowly converted). |
Conversion goes the other way most of the time. People generally become more centrist as they get older.
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ArtBest23
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| Posted: 06/15/17 12:37 pm ::: Re: The Sanders/Warren candidate got thumped in the VA Gov r |
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| justintyme wrote: |
| I think he was supposed to represent the future of the Democratic party as he was the voice of the Millennial and younger. |
Wait. Bernie is 75 years years old. He's supposed to represent the "future" and be the voice of the young?
Heck, he's not even a Democrat.
Let's be honest. Bernie is and will never be more than a fringe character. There was an opening for his 15 minutes of fame because of Hillary's unpopularity and everyone else sitting out the 2016 race.
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 06/15/17 1:12 pm ::: Re: The Sanders/Warren candidate got thumped in the VA Gov r |
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| pilight wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| But in sheer numbers the progressive wing is still a minorty until the more moderates die off (or are slowly converted). |
Conversion goes the other way most of the time. People generally become more centrist as they get older. |
While traditionally true, there are significant factors that suggest this is not just a youth movement, one of which is the dominance of the progressive ideology in 30+ year olds.
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justintyme
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| Posted: 06/15/17 1:16 pm ::: Re: The Sanders/Warren candidate got thumped in the VA Gov r |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| I think he was supposed to represent the future of the Democratic party as he was the voice of the Millennial and younger. |
Wait. Bernie is 75 years years old. He's supposed to represent the "future" and be the voice of the young?
Heck, he's not even a Democrat.
Let's be honest. Bernie is and will never be more than a fringe character. There was an opening for his 15 minutes of fame because of Hillary's unpopularity and everyone else sitting out the 2016 race. |
Bernie is 75. The progressive movement and the return of the New Deal Liberals is the overwhelming ideology of those 39 and under. While he himself is not the "future" the movement he has begun is.
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 06/15/17 10:31 pm ::: Re: The Sanders/Warren candidate got thumped in the VA Gov r |
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| justintyme wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| I think he was supposed to represent the future of the Democratic party as he was the voice of the Millennial and younger. |
Wait. Bernie is 75 years years old. He's supposed to represent the "future" and be the voice of the young?
Heck, he's not even a Democrat.
Let's be honest. Bernie is and will never be more than a fringe character. There was an opening for his 15 minutes of fame because of Hillary's unpopularity and everyone else sitting out the 2016 race. |
Bernie is 75. The progressive movement and the return of the New Deal Liberals is the overwhelming ideology of those 39 and under. While he himself is not the "future" the movement he has begun is. |
The Obama coalition is the future of the party.
Yes, young people are included, but so are POC (particularly WOC). Bernie was only the voice for part of the future of the party. And he's been quite exclusive towards the other part.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
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Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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| Posted: 06/15/17 11:59 pm ::: Re: The Sanders/Warren candidate got thumped in the VA Gov r |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| justintyme wrote: |
| I think he was supposed to represent the future of the Democratic party as he was the voice of the Millennial and younger. |
Wait. Bernie is 75 years years old. He's supposed to represent the "future" and be the voice of the young?
Heck, he's not even a Democrat.
Let's be honest. Bernie is and will never be more than a fringe character. There was an opening for his 15 minutes of fame because of Hillary's unpopularity and everyone else sitting out the 2016 race. |
Bernie is 75. The progressive movement and the return of the New Deal Liberals is the overwhelming ideology of those 39 and under. While he himself is not the "future" the movement he has begun is. |
The Obama coalition is the future of the party.
Yes, young people are included, but so are POC (particularly WOC). Bernie was only the voice for part of the future of the party. And he's been quite exclusive towards the other part. |
Specifics, please.
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 06/16/17 12:01 am ::: Re: The Sanders/Warren candidate got thumped in the VA Gov r |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
| And he's been quite exclusive towards the other part. |
Yeah, I love that bullshit narrative. It makes exactly zero sense since he has been a leading voice on these issues for years.
Just to note, young POC voted Sanders just like the rest of the under 40 crowd.
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tfan
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| Posted: 06/16/17 3:26 am ::: |
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| The Democratic party moved right over the last so many decades. But I think it was because of a desire to get the big money donors. Political contributions allow the views of the rich to have unequal weight, so I think should be outlawed.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 06/16/17 7:06 am ::: Re: The Sanders/Warren candidate got thumped in the VA Gov r |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
The Obama coalition is the future of the party. |
Guess I should have named this thread "The Sanders/Warren/Obama candidate got thumped in the VA Gov race."
He was also the Obama candidate with the Obama campaign apparatus on board and Obama doing TV for Perriello.
If that's the "future of the party", it's bleak.
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Queenie
Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 06/16/17 11:24 pm ::: Re: The Sanders/Warren candidate got thumped in the VA Gov r |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Heck, he's not even a Democrat. |
This this this this this. If you're going to try to reshape a political party, shouldn't you, y'know, be affiliated with it?
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 06/16/17 11:32 pm ::: Re: The Sanders/Warren candidate got thumped in the VA Gov r |
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| justintyme wrote: |
| mercfan3 wrote: |
| And he's been quite exclusive towards the other part. |
Yeah, I love that bullshit narrative. It makes exactly zero sense since he has been a leading voice on these issues for years.
Just to note, young POC voted Sanders just like the rest of the under 40 crowd. |
He's repeatedly thrown POC and women under the bus, in a variety of ways.
- Southern votes shouldn't matter
- It's not necessary to be prochoice in order to be a liberal
- him and his supporters literally advocating for a primary system that would reduce the power of POC voters.
For starters.
I really don't have a problem with someone who focuses entirely on economic justice (although, he's quite narrow minded in that area), but I have a problem with a politician that demonizes every individual who doesn't value the same things he does.
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mercfan3
Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 06/16/17 11:35 pm ::: |
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| tfan wrote: |
| The Democratic party moved right over the last so many decades. But I think it was because of a desire to get the big money donors. Political contributions allow the views of the rich to have unequal weight, so I think should be outlawed. |
The Democratic party moved right because they had to. Center/left is literally as progressive of a candidate as the country will vote for.
Millennials are significantly more progressive, but they are also significantly more apathetic than the boomers when it comes to voting, and until they (we) get our shit together and start voting, their political ideology is irrelevant.
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 06/17/17 12:45 am ::: Re: The Sanders/Warren candidate got thumped in the VA Gov r |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
- It's not necessary to be prochoice in order to be a liberal
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Seriously? I am vociferously pro-choice and even I don't believe that. No one issue defines someone's political ideology.
This all came from a race in which there was no "pro choice" candidate. Are you saying that people should not vote for a candidate who they share 90% of a viewpoint with just because they disagree with one issue (no matter the size) when the only other option also doesn't agree with you on that issue or anything else? Especially if you live in an area where a candidate who agreed with you on that issue would stand a snowball's chance in hell of being elected?
And having been a part of both a caucus and a primary system, I have to tell you a primary is infinitely better. And it has nothing to do with the power of POC voters. Hell, I don't even know how those two systems are supposed to have an effect on relative power or why it would make a difference. Seems an insane stretch to me. Caucuses are terrible because they are incredibly inconvenient.
And he definitely focuses on things other than economic justice. Just page through his facebook page and see the issues he addresses. Economic reform is a huge thing to tackle, but it is important. Hell, there isn't a single issue that would help more people and overlap into more areas of liberal concern (including implicit racism) than fixing our economic struggles and the wealth gap. But even so he is also constantly addressing other issues as well, and with just as much recognition.
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Last edited by justintyme on 06/17/17 12:53 am; edited 1 time in total |
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tfan
Joined: 31 May 2010
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| Posted: 06/17/17 12:50 am ::: |
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| mercfan3 wrote: |
| tfan wrote: |
| The Democratic party moved right over the last so many decades. But I think it was because of a desire to get the big money donors. Political contributions allow the views of the rich to have unequal weight, so I think should be outlawed. |
The Democratic party moved right because they had to. Center/left is literally as progressive of a candidate as the country will vote for.
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Why did voters move right?
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| - It's not necessary to be pro-choice in order to be a liberal |
This is one of the issues that I think doesn't fit into "conservative/liberal" which to me should be reserved for economic/government issues. Abortion pro/con is based on whether or not it is murder or unethical to kill a fetus. I don't see how that has any relation to taxation or government size and government programs.
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