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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 11:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
calbearman76 wrote:
...Janel McCarville was also a serviceable player but never an All-Star. The only All-Stars were Sancho Lyttle and Kara Braxton, but neither had a better career than McCarville...


What? Sancho Lyttle didn't have a better career than Janel McCarville? Based on what, the fact that McCarville rode Maya Moore's coattails to a ring? McCarville has a higher career field goal percentage, and that's it. I can't think of one other aspect of basketball in which Janel McCarville was better than Sancho Lyttle.



I was about to speak on this part too specifically Laughing . Janel's career was better than Kara's #MAYBE ? but Sancho realllly Rolling Eyes . Heck Janel Burse had a better career than Janel McCarville Laughing



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 11:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
adamj95 wrote:
Being the best post passer in the WNBA.

Better than peak Candace Parker? I'd question that.

Quote:
Being a starting center on two Lynx teams that won 26 and 25 games. Winning a WNBA title.

Congratulations; that makes her the Andrew Bogut of the WNBA. Anybody who tried to make the claim that Andrew Bogut had a better career than Marc Gasol would get summarily laughed at.



I was laughing when i saw the original post about the best post passer in the W & placing conviction into the "she started for 2 titles with Minny" Laughing Just to specify which years did she win titles because i can only remember in 2013. They didnt win in 2014 & 2015 she sat out.... Confused Cameback in 2016 didnt start a game and didnt return in 2017...so wheres the 2nd championship with minny again ?



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josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 11:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Could it possibly be that the League is trying to generate more interest in a franchise that doesn't have as much as others? The Stars don't draw anywhere near as good as the more successful teams and of course having a popular player with good charisma can make a big difference (look at the attendance differences for the Sky and Mystics from a year ago). San Antonio has become a very big basketball city over the past fifteen years due to the extended success of the the Spurs and I think there is a good market waiting to be exploited there. It's also not too crowded. San Antonio doesn't have any other big sports teams aside from the Spurs. All speculation on my part.


Randy



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 11:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't really care much for which player is better debates, but I'll pile on too.

Sancho played more games, more MPG, higher PPG, higher RPG, One time All Star, One time "Team WNBA v. Team USA" player, Two WNBA All-Defensive First Team selections (2012, 2014) and a three-time Second Team selection (2009, 2010, 2011);

McCarville leads slightly in passing stats APG 1.9 v 1.7; however McCarville had higher TO PG - 1.7 v. 1.5 for Sancho. McCarville never an All Star.

I think this myth is busted.

Razz


jap



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 12:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
I don't really care much for which player is better debates, but I'll pile on too.

Sancho played more games, more MPG, higher PPG, higher RPG, One time All Star, One time "Team WNBA v. Team USA" player, Two WNBA All-Defensive First Team selections (2012, 2014) and a three-time Second Team selection (2009, 2010, 2011);

McCarville leads slightly in passing stats APG 1.9 v 1.7; however McCarville had higher TO PG - 1.7 v. 1.5 for Sancho. McCarville never an All Star.

I think this myth is busted. Razz



It was busted wide open from the time she was called the best post passer over Ace. Candace passes better than some PG's.



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adamj95



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 1:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

To clarify my statement, by best passing post player, I meant center. I stand by that statement that Janel is the best passing center. And I stated that she won a WNBA title. Not many players can win a title. Sancho has been to the finals 3 times and is 0-3. Just my thoughts.


adamj95



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 1:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Silky Johnson wrote:
adamj95 wrote:
Being the best post passer in the WNBA.

Better than peak Candace Parker? I'd question that.

Quote:
Being a starting center on two Lynx teams that won 26 and 25 games. Winning a WNBA title.

Congratulations; that makes her the Andrew Bogut of the WNBA. Anybody who tried to make the claim that Andrew Bogut had a better career than Marc Gasol would get summarily laughed at.



I was laughing when i saw the original post about the best post passer in the W & placing conviction into the "she started for 2 titles with Minny" Laughing Just to specify which years did she win titles because i can only remember in 2013. They didnt win in 2014 & 2015 she sat out.... Confused Cameback in 2016 didnt start a game and didnt return in 2017...so wheres the 2nd championship with minny again ?


Never said she won 2 titles. Said she started on two lynx teams that won 26 and 25 games.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 1:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

adamj95 wrote:
To clarify my statement, by best passing post player, I meant center. I stand by that statement that Janel is the best passing center. And I stated that she won a WNBA title. Not many players can win a title. Sancho has been to the finals 3 times and is 0-3. Just my thoughts.


Thanks for changing it to 1 title and not multiples. Kara braxton has title also along with a triple double to her name. Ijs Cool



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Last edited by WNBA 09 on 06/12/17 1:10 pm; edited 1 time in total
adamj95



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 1:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
adamj95 wrote:
To clarify my statement, by best passing post player, I meant center. I stand by that statement that Janel is the best passing center. And I stated that she won a WNBA title. Not many players can win a title. Sancho has been to the finals 3 times and is 0-3. Just my thoughts.


Thanks for changing it to 1 title and not multiples. Kara braxton has titles also along with a triple double to her name. Ijs Cool


Re-read my original post. Said she won 1 title and started for 2 lynx teams that won 25+ games.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 1:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

adamj95 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
adamj95 wrote:
To clarify my statement, by best passing post player, I meant center. I stand by that statement that Janel is the best passing center. And I stated that she won a WNBA title. Not many players can win a title. Sancho has been to the finals 3 times and is 0-3. Just my thoughts.


Thanks for changing it to 1 title and not multiples. Kara braxton has titles also along with a triple double to her name. Ijs Cool


Re-read my original post. Said she won 1 title and started for 2 lynx teams that won 25+ games.


Thats not the original post but its not that big of a deal . The myth has been concluded a bust.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 1:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

adamj95 wrote:
To clarify my statement, by best passing post player, I meant center. I stand by that statement that Janel is the best passing center. And I stated that she won a WNBA title. Not many players can win a title. Sancho has been to the finals 3 times and is 0-3. Just my thoughts.


There has been no point in their careers when the team that had Sancho Lyttle would have traded her straight up for McCarville. The converse is not true. That's really all that need be said for the "debate" over who is the better player.



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 1:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Sorry Adamj95 - Sancho has not played in 3 finals. #fakenews.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 1:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Sorry Adamj95 - Sancho has not played in 3 finals. #fakenews.


That will get edited too Laughing



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scrappy



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 1:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

RP wrote:
What did Shoni Schimmel do?


sells jerseys.



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MuneravenMN
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PostPosted: 06/12/17 1:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

caune wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
And she was the #1 overall pick and the leading scorer in NCAA history. That player's going to be paid some attention, even if they haven't done anything in the League yet.



Exactly.
I just don't get why everybody seems to dislike her. She's awesome. She may not get to show it in SA but I think she'll pan out sooner then later.


She seems to have a real anti-fan club around here, but when SA played in MN there were several very vocal Plum fans around me! I haven't heard that many loud fans for a non Lynx since Whalen was in Connecticut.

People love to scream "Bust" too early. Point guards sometimes take awhile. Few of them come in like Bird did just ready to run a pro offense.



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justintyme



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 1:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Randy wrote:
Sorry Adamj95 - Sancho has not played in 3 finals. #fakenews.


That will get edited too Laughing

Before you laugh at him, you really should go back and reread his original post on the subject. While I disagree with his conclusion that McCarville had a better career than Lyttle, there is no need to ridicule his posts or laugh at him. That's just rude.

And it can make people look silly when it comes from them misreading something that was basically correct.

The post he made that originated this "debate" was:

"Being the best post passer in the WNBA. Being a starting center on two Lynx teams that won 26 and 25 games. Winning a WNBA title."

The only thing that was arguably incorrect here was "the best post passer" premise. And he did what any intelligent person should do in a debate: when confronted by a resonable counter, listen to it and adjust your argument accordingly. Here he was presented with someone who could be considered a better post passer, so he conceeded that point and amended his position to "best center". This is a much stronger position, and is the way debate/discussion should work.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 1:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

MuneravenMN wrote:
People love to scream "Bust" too early. Point guards sometimes take awhile. Few of them come in like Bird did just ready to run a pro offense.


Bird was pretty good, but people forget she led the league in turnovers her first two seasons.



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Make lots of noise
Kiss lots of boys
Or kiss lots of girls
If that's something you're into
When the straight and narrow
Gets a little too straight
Roll up a joint, or don't
Just follow your arrow
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Follow your arrow
Wherever it points
WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 2:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
MuneravenMN wrote:
People love to scream "Bust" too early. Point guards sometimes take awhile. Few of them come in like Bird did just ready to run a pro offense.


Bird was pretty good, but people forget she led the league in turnovers her first two seasons.



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adamj95



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 2:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Randy wrote:
Sorry Adamj95 - Sancho has not played in 3 finals. #fakenews.


That will get edited too Laughing


Never edited anything. Forgot she didn't play in the 13 finals.


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PostPosted: 06/12/17 3:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

scrappy wrote:
RP wrote:
What did Shoni Schimmel do?


sells jerseys.


And get votes. That alone can get you elected to public office (not to mention All Star teams.)


Silky Johnson



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 3:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
The only thing that was arguably incorrect here was "the best post passer" premise. And he did what any intelligent person should do in a debate: when confronted by a resonable counter, listen to it and adjust your argument accordingly. Here he was presented with someone who could be considered a better post passer, so he conceeded that point and amended his position to "best center". This is a much stronger position, and is the way debate/discussion should work.


LOL. Tomato, potato... You say "conceeded [sic] that point and amended his position", I say "moved the goalposts."

It seemed to me that @calbearman76's original argument was based on the premise that Janel McCarville had a better career than Sancho Lyttle, because McCarville got a ring, which makes about as much sense to me as saying that Le'Coe Willingham had a better career than Sophia Young. Why @adamj95 decided to 1) defend what I'd consider to be an indefensible position, and 2) thought that he'd actually laid down the Big Joker with "best post passer in the WNBA" is completely mystifying to me.



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 3:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

scrappy wrote:
RP wrote:
What did Shoni Schimmel do?


sells jerseys.


For a second i thought u meant she was selling jersey's while taking this season off Laughing



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 4:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
Does anyone remember how awful Diggins was as a rookie? Sometimes it takes a while. One of the main things Plum needs to work on is her core strength, just to live with the athletes at this level. Diggins had the same issue, and it's going to take some time.

Which isn't to say that she won't be a bust. Just that declaring her a bust already is kinda crazy and unfair.


Yeah skylar had a rough rookie season but her team was horrible in Tulsa...

As opposed to the glorified WNBA D-League team Plum is playing with in San Antonio?



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 4:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:
justintyme wrote:
The only thing that was arguably incorrect here was "the best post passer" premise. And he did what any intelligent person should do in a debate: when confronted by a resonable counter, listen to it and adjust your argument accordingly. Here he was presented with someone who could be considered a better post passer, so he conceeded that point and amended his position to "best center". This is a much stronger position, and is the way debate/discussion should work.


LOL. Tomato, potato... You say "conceeded [sic] that point and amended his position", I say "moved the goalposts."


I teach all my students to always be revising their positions as counter arguments are presented. It is a sign of a flexible and intelligent mind.

Moving the goalposts involves ignoring a valid counter-argument by changing the debate as a whole (as in what was being argued about, or by changing the standards by which the debate was to be judged). In this case he accepted the counter-argument and adjusted his premise to a more accurate position, agreeing that his original premise was flawed. He kept the same conclusion.

While I agree that the conclusion was flawed, I would not call it "indefensible" nor should it be a source of ridicule.



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 5:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Silky Johnson wrote:

LOL. Tomato, potato... You say "conceeded [sic] that point and amended his position", I say "moved the goalposts."

It seemed to me that @calbearman76's original argument was based on the premise that Janel McCarville had a better career than Sancho Lyttle, because McCarville got a ring, which makes about as much sense to me as saying that Le'Coe Willingham had a better career than Sophia Young. Why @adamj95 decided to 1) defend what I'd consider to be an indefensible position, and 2) thought that he'd actually laid down the Big Joker with "best post passer in the WNBA" is completely mystifying to me.


Okay. I tried to stay out of this tangent that I started. I didn't realize I was opening up such a hornet's nest, but since my name was invoked I will respond. What I said was:

"Janel McCarville was also a serviceable player but never an All-Star. The only All-Stars were Sancho Lyttle and Kara Braxton, but neither had a better career than McCarville."

Note that I didn't say that McCarville was better than Lyttle. I believe they had comparable careers, and I said that within the broader context of arguing that none of these sub par #1 picks were terrible choices based on other players that were available. My comment was not intended as a slight towards Sancho Lyttle or a ringing endorsement of Janel McCarville. Both players were starters and role players on teams that had some success. Lyttle has better stats overall, but was never the leading scorer on her team, generally more of a third option. What stands out most is that she had more longevity, so on that basis I may give her a small nod. I also noticed that Sancho Lyttle was the number one choice in the dispersal draft of 2009 (ahead of Matee Ajuvon and Mistie Williams), whereas McCarville was only the #3 choice in the 2007 dispersal draft (behind Monique Currie and Tangela Smith). On the other hand in McCarville's six years as a starter her teams won at a .593 clip, while Lyttle's teams won only .497 in her 8 years as a starter.

So if people want to continue this who is better argument so be it; that was never my point. My point is that, just as in 2005, 2017 did not have any great options as the overall number 1. If Kelsey Plum winds up having a career that is comparable to either McCarville or Lyttle that may be enough to be the best of a bad crop from 2017.


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