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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12537 Location: Dallas , Texas
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12537 Location: Dallas , Texas
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josephkramer44
Joined: 23 Aug 2016 Posts: 136
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Posted: 06/12/17 11:41 am ::: |
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Could it possibly be that the League is trying to generate more interest in a franchise that doesn't have as much as others? The Stars don't draw anywhere near as good as the more successful teams and of course having a popular player with good charisma can make a big difference (look at the attendance differences for the Sky and Mystics from a year ago). San Antonio has become a very big basketball city over the past fifteen years due to the extended success of the the Spurs and I think there is a good market waiting to be exploited there. It's also not too crowded. San Antonio doesn't have any other big sports teams aside from the Spurs. All speculation on my part.
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 06/12/17 11:50 am ::: |
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I don't really care much for which player is better debates, but I'll pile on too.
Sancho played more games, more MPG, higher PPG, higher RPG, One time All Star, One time "Team WNBA v. Team USA" player, Two WNBA All-Defensive First Team selections (2012, 2014) and a three-time Second Team selection (2009, 2010, 2011);
McCarville leads slightly in passing stats APG 1.9 v 1.7; however McCarville had higher TO PG - 1.7 v. 1.5 for Sancho. McCarville never an All Star.
I think this myth is busted.
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jap
Joined: 01 Apr 2007 Posts: 7924
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Posted: 06/12/17 12:13 pm ::: |
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Randy wrote: |
I don't really care much for which player is better debates, but I'll pile on too.
Sancho played more games, more MPG, higher PPG, higher RPG, One time All Star, One time "Team WNBA v. Team USA" player, Two WNBA All-Defensive First Team selections (2012, 2014) and a three-time Second Team selection (2009, 2010, 2011);
McCarville leads slightly in passing stats APG 1.9 v 1.7; however McCarville had higher TO PG - 1.7 v. 1.5 for Sancho. McCarville never an All Star.
I think this myth is busted. |
It was busted wide open from the time she was called the best post passer over Ace. Candace passes better than some PG's.
_________________ Regards,
J A P
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adamj95
Joined: 09 May 2014 Posts: 2302 Location: East Grand Forks, MN
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Posted: 06/12/17 1:05 pm ::: |
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To clarify my statement, by best passing post player, I meant center. I stand by that statement that Janel is the best passing center. And I stated that she won a WNBA title. Not many players can win a title. Sancho has been to the finals 3 times and is 0-3. Just my thoughts.
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adamj95
Joined: 09 May 2014 Posts: 2302 Location: East Grand Forks, MN
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12537 Location: Dallas , Texas
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adamj95
Joined: 09 May 2014 Posts: 2302 Location: East Grand Forks, MN
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12537 Location: Dallas , Texas
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66916 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 06/12/17 1:13 pm ::: |
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adamj95 wrote: |
To clarify my statement, by best passing post player, I meant center. I stand by that statement that Janel is the best passing center. And I stated that she won a WNBA title. Not many players can win a title. Sancho has been to the finals 3 times and is 0-3. Just my thoughts. |
There has been no point in their careers when the team that had Sancho Lyttle would have traded her straight up for McCarville. The converse is not true. That's really all that need be said for the "debate" over who is the better player.
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 06/12/17 1:36 pm ::: |
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Sorry Adamj95 - Sancho has not played in 3 finals. #fakenews.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12537 Location: Dallas , Texas
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scrappy
Joined: 18 May 2006 Posts: 1880
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Posted: 06/12/17 1:39 pm ::: |
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RP wrote: |
What did Shoni Schimmel do? |
sells jerseys.
_________________ She's blonde, she can block. She is 6 foot five, she can deny. Though she is tall, she definitely can score. ya'al think she is quite nice, but on the court she can put up a fight.
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MuneravenMN Champion Tipster
Joined: 01 Jun 2008 Posts: 3990
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Posted: 06/12/17 1:49 pm ::: |
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caune wrote: |
Richyyy wrote: |
And she was the #1 overall pick and the leading scorer in NCAA history. That player's going to be paid some attention, even if they haven't done anything in the League yet. |
Exactly.
I just don't get why everybody seems to dislike her. She's awesome. She may not get to show it in SA but I think she'll pan out sooner then later. |
She seems to have a real anti-fan club around here, but when SA played in MN there were several very vocal Plum fans around me! I haven't heard that many loud fans for a non Lynx since Whalen was in Connecticut.
People love to scream "Bust" too early. Point guards sometimes take awhile. Few of them come in like Bird did just ready to run a pro offense.
_________________ Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character.
--John Wooden
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 8407 Location: Northfield, MN
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004 Posts: 66916 Location: Where the action is
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Posted: 06/12/17 1:54 pm ::: |
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MuneravenMN wrote: |
People love to scream "Bust" too early. Point guards sometimes take awhile. Few of them come in like Bird did just ready to run a pro offense. |
Bird was pretty good, but people forget she led the league in turnovers her first two seasons.
_________________ I'm a lonely frog
I ain't got a home
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12537 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Posted: 06/12/17 2:04 pm ::: |
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pilight wrote: |
MuneravenMN wrote: |
People love to scream "Bust" too early. Point guards sometimes take awhile. Few of them come in like Bird did just ready to run a pro offense. |
Bird was pretty good, but people forget she led the league in turnovers her first two seasons. |
X______________
_________________ 3-Time WNBA Champion-3-Time National Champion-4-Time Olympic Champion....And Yes DT "We Got Confeti" lol
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adamj95
Joined: 09 May 2014 Posts: 2302 Location: East Grand Forks, MN
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011 Posts: 10911
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Posted: 06/12/17 3:14 pm ::: |
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scrappy wrote: |
RP wrote: |
What did Shoni Schimmel do? |
sells jerseys. |
And get votes. That alone can get you elected to public office (not to mention All Star teams.)
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Silky Johnson
Joined: 29 Sep 2014 Posts: 3318
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Posted: 06/12/17 3:36 pm ::: |
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justintyme wrote: |
The only thing that was arguably incorrect here was "the best post passer" premise. And he did what any intelligent person should do in a debate: when confronted by a resonable counter, listen to it and adjust your argument accordingly. Here he was presented with someone who could be considered a better post passer, so he conceeded that point and amended his position to "best center". This is a much stronger position, and is the way debate/discussion should work. |
LOL. Tomato, potato... You say "conceeded [sic] that point and amended his position", I say "moved the goalposts."
It seemed to me that @calbearman76's original argument was based on the premise that Janel McCarville had a better career than Sancho Lyttle, because McCarville got a ring, which makes about as much sense to me as saying that Le'Coe Willingham had a better career than Sophia Young. Why @adamj95 decided to 1) defend what I'd consider to be an indefensible position, and 2) thought that he'd actually laid down the Big Joker with "best post passer in the WNBA" is completely mystifying to me.
_________________ Professional Hater. The Baron of #HateHard
My team no longer exists, so I'll have to settle for hating yours.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009 Posts: 12537 Location: Dallas , Texas
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005 Posts: 24355 Location: London
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Posted: 06/12/17 4:30 pm ::: |
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WNBA 09 wrote: |
Richyyy wrote: |
Does anyone remember how awful Diggins was as a rookie? Sometimes it takes a while. One of the main things Plum needs to work on is her core strength, just to live with the athletes at this level. Diggins had the same issue, and it's going to take some time.
Which isn't to say that she won't be a bust. Just that declaring her a bust already is kinda crazy and unfair. |
Yeah skylar had a rough rookie season but her team was horrible in Tulsa... |
As opposed to the glorified WNBA D-League team Plum is playing with in San Antonio? |
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justintyme
Joined: 08 Jul 2012 Posts: 8407 Location: Northfield, MN
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Posted: 06/12/17 4:32 pm ::: |
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Silky Johnson wrote: |
justintyme wrote: |
The only thing that was arguably incorrect here was "the best post passer" premise. And he did what any intelligent person should do in a debate: when confronted by a resonable counter, listen to it and adjust your argument accordingly. Here he was presented with someone who could be considered a better post passer, so he conceeded that point and amended his position to "best center". This is a much stronger position, and is the way debate/discussion should work. |
LOL. Tomato, potato... You say "conceeded [sic] that point and amended his position", I say "moved the goalposts." |
I teach all my students to always be revising their positions as counter arguments are presented. It is a sign of a flexible and intelligent mind.
Moving the goalposts involves ignoring a valid counter-argument by changing the debate as a whole (as in what was being argued about, or by changing the standards by which the debate was to be judged). In this case he accepted the counter-argument and adjusted his premise to a more accurate position, agreeing that his original premise was flawed. He kept the same conclusion.
While I agree that the conclusion was flawed, I would not call it "indefensible" nor should it be a source of ridicule.
_________________ ↑↑↓↓←→←→BA
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calbearman76
Joined: 02 Nov 2009 Posts: 5155 Location: Carson City
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Posted: 06/12/17 5:15 pm ::: |
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Silky Johnson wrote: |
LOL. Tomato, potato... You say "conceeded [sic] that point and amended his position", I say "moved the goalposts."
It seemed to me that @calbearman76's original argument was based on the premise that Janel McCarville had a better career than Sancho Lyttle, because McCarville got a ring, which makes about as much sense to me as saying that Le'Coe Willingham had a better career than Sophia Young. Why @adamj95 decided to 1) defend what I'd consider to be an indefensible position, and 2) thought that he'd actually laid down the Big Joker with "best post passer in the WNBA" is completely mystifying to me. |
Okay. I tried to stay out of this tangent that I started. I didn't realize I was opening up such a hornet's nest, but since my name was invoked I will respond. What I said was:
"Janel McCarville was also a serviceable player but never an All-Star. The only All-Stars were Sancho Lyttle and Kara Braxton, but neither had a better career than McCarville."
Note that I didn't say that McCarville was better than Lyttle. I believe they had comparable careers, and I said that within the broader context of arguing that none of these sub par #1 picks were terrible choices based on other players that were available. My comment was not intended as a slight towards Sancho Lyttle or a ringing endorsement of Janel McCarville. Both players were starters and role players on teams that had some success. Lyttle has better stats overall, but was never the leading scorer on her team, generally more of a third option. What stands out most is that she had more longevity, so on that basis I may give her a small nod. I also noticed that Sancho Lyttle was the number one choice in the dispersal draft of 2009 (ahead of Matee Ajuvon and Mistie Williams), whereas McCarville was only the #3 choice in the 2007 dispersal draft (behind Monique Currie and Tangela Smith). On the other hand in McCarville's six years as a starter her teams won at a .593 clip, while Lyttle's teams won only .497 in her 8 years as a starter.
So if people want to continue this who is better argument so be it; that was never my point. My point is that, just as in 2005, 2017 did not have any great options as the overall number 1. If Kelsey Plum winds up having a career that is comparable to either McCarville or Lyttle that may be enough to be the best of a bad crop from 2017.
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