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Queenie



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PostPosted: 06/05/17 8:01 pm    ::: Not wanting to derail the transfers thread... Reply Reply with quote

http://boards.rebkell.net/viewtopic.php?p=1458525#1458525

So, um. What the?

Can we rewind to the bit where apparently Tennessee has Fight Club? And the players post video of it? So that this is apparently normalized?

I mean. I am having trouble wrapping my mind around it. Is this one of those North-South things I don't get as a Yankee?



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PostPosted: 06/05/17 8:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Is it rare? I remember meeting out on the playgrounds after school for a scuffle while others gathered around duking it out or wrestling and then after 10 minutes everyone was buddies. We didn't have technology to record it 40 years ago But we talked about it for weeks. And this wasn't exclusive to males. It wasn't common occurrence like a weekly event but it happened.

It happened to roommates in college as well. So I'm not surprised especially looking at very competitive young people.



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PostPosted: 06/05/17 8:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Kangraoo courts happen on athletic teams.

Horse play or other physically heavy sanction areas happen in locker rooms (The U couch at Miami is nefarious in College football lore)

BUT this does seem extreme...and a breach of the culture...

I'm more WOW warlick has lost the team more than Cooper fd up...and what about the WHOLE TEAM watching and filming it...and Posting to social media for a brief time apparently.

I wont use the negative use of the Lady Monicker to say that Women's sports should be treated differently...I'm sure it HAS happened elsewhere

But as they say

First rule of fight club....



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PostPosted: 06/05/17 8:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

To this long-time Tenn fan and observer, it's been obvious for a while that the team has been hamstrung by some serious interpersonal issues that go well beyond the usual "chemistry" problems. I'm not surprised that a fight happened or that players are leaving. I don't know if the departure of Cooper will help or exacerbate things. She wasn't a particularly good player as a freshman, so I don't think her leaving is much of a loss there, but Middleton's departure is now looking huge. I do hope CHW puts this fire out asap, otherwise it's going to be a very long season.


myrtle



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PostPosted: 06/05/17 9:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

On a side note. It always amazes me when a HS kid commits to a team with such obvious chemistry problems. You would think it would chase them away. But maybe they all think that they are the solution and surely it will get better. I mean they surely can't be totally ignorant of what's going on....can they?



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FrozenLVFan



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PostPosted: 06/05/17 9:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Since this is the biggest SEC WBB story since the FF, and since kids spend half their waking hours on a cell phone and put everything out there on social media, I'm sure everybody remotely involved knows about it.


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PostPosted: 06/06/17 12:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wonder if Nared stays. She has her degree.



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Youth Coach



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PostPosted: 06/06/17 6:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wait, I missed the story on Alexa Middleton leaving? When did that happen and where did she go?
WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/06/17 8:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Youth Coach wrote:
Wait, I missed the story on Alexa Middleton leaving? When did that happen and where did she go?


Shes transferring , no word on where though but FSU could be in play from what im hearing.



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PostPosted: 06/06/17 8:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NoDakSt wrote:
I wonder if Nared stays. She has her degree.


I believe nared will play out her last season .



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PostPosted: 06/06/17 8:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I spoke to a reliable source in Knoxville today and the story given is she didn't want to leave but would have to face the disciplinary committee. She didn't want to face the committee so she asked for a transfer instead. I'm sure she knew what was coming if she faced the committee so she decided to transfer instead of facing the music.



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PostPosted: 06/06/17 8:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Happycappie25 wrote:


I'm more WOW warlick has lost the team more than Cooper fd up...and what about the WHOLE TEAM watching and filming it...and Posting to social media for a brief time apparently.



If true, this is the most troubling aspect of this story. The first instinct of at least one teammate was to get the phone out and start filming? What's going on down there in Knoxville?


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PostPosted: 06/06/17 8:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PhillyCat wrote:
Happycappie25 wrote:


I'm more WOW warlick has lost the team more than Cooper fd up...and what about the WHOLE TEAM watching and filming it...and Posting to social media for a brief time apparently.



If true, this is the most troubling aspect of this story. The first instinct of at least one teammate was to get the phone out and start filming? What's going on down there in Knoxville?


The whole team Portion was a bit embellished i believe , there were a few players from the team not all .



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PhillyCat



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PostPosted: 06/06/17 9:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
PhillyCat wrote:
Happycappie25 wrote:


I'm more WOW warlick has lost the team more than Cooper fd up...and what about the WHOLE TEAM watching and filming it...and Posting to social media for a brief time apparently.



If true, this is the most troubling aspect of this story. The first instinct of at least one teammate was to get the phone out and start filming? What's going on down there in Knoxville?


The whole team Portion was a bit embellished i believe , there were a few players from the team not all .


The whole team, some of the team, doesn't matter. Stop it, don't film it. That part of this story is strange.


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PostPosted: 06/06/17 9:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

What's scary to me is that an internal conflict on a team could escalate to the point that a physical resolution was required without the coaches stepping in.

First, one would think the coaching staff would be aware on its own of the tension between the players, and if not, that other players would let them know.

This is worth a closer look, I think. One of my jobs as a coach, head or assistant, is to have a sense of my team and how the players interact. Obviously, I would love it if they all liked each other and hung out together, but that seldom happens -- so I'm always on the lookout for tensions and issues and I try to talk to various players to see who's involved and what might be causing the problems.

Usually, these tensions can be dissipated with individual conversations, but sometimes it's necessary to bring the players in together and talk things through. These are talented players, and strong-willed young women, but coaches at this level get paid a lot of money to be able to communicate with these athletes and work through these specific kinds of problems.

Another angle is to have the captains step in either with or without the presence of the coaches and have them try to get the players through it. (I don't know who the captains at Tennessee are -- hopefully Nared isn't one of them.)

I have to presume that the coaches didn't know about the fight in advance, which means a) that they weren't in touch with the team enough to know emotions had run that high; and b) (and more important) that no players felt this was important enough to tell the coaches, or that none of the coaches asked the players how things were going in such a manner that it would have been revealed.

Either a) or b) is pretty much inexcusable. The other option, that the coaches knew about it and let it go forward, is even worse.

Overall, this goes a long way towards explaining Tennessee's problems in the recent past. The coaching staff is obviously out of touch with its players and the emotional state of the team, and in terms of getting a team ready to play, it's crucial for the coaching staff to have a feel for where the players are mentally.

This is pretty clearly not the case at Tennessee.

Finally, if I'm the AD at Tennessee, I don't have the kids in my office, I have Holly Warlick in my office, and it's not a pleasant encounter. It's not like there are 100 football players or 30 baseball players to keep track of; this is a small roster, and this is a marquee program at the university. How any coach in any sport could let things get to this point is a serious problem, but even more so for Warlick and women's basketball.

The more I think about this, the worse it is ...



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PostPosted: 06/06/17 10:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
What's scary to me is that an internal conflict on a team could escalate to the point that a physical resolution was required without the coaches stepping in.

First, one would think the coaching staff would be aware on its own of the tension between the players, and if not, that other players would let them know.

This is worth a closer look, I think. One of my jobs as a coach, head or assistant, is to have a sense of my team and how the players interact. Obviously, I would love it if they all liked each other and hung out together, but that seldom happens -- so I'm always on the lookout for tensions and issues and I try to talk to various players to see who's involved and what might be causing the problems.

Usually, these tensions can be dissipated with individual conversations, but sometimes it's necessary to bring the players in together and talk things through. These are talented players, and strong-willed young women, but coaches at this level get paid a lot of money to be able to communicate with these athletes and work through these specific kinds of problems.

Another angle is to have the captains step in either with or without the presence of the coaches and have them try to get the players through it. (I don't know who the captains at Tennessee are -- hopefully Nared isn't one of them.)

I have to presume that the coaches didn't know about the fight in advance, which means a) that they weren't in touch with the team enough to know emotions had run that high; and b) (and more important) that no players felt this was important enough to tell the coaches, or that none of the coaches asked the players how things were going in such a manner that it would have been revealed.

Either a) or b) is pretty much inexcusable. The other option, that the coaches knew about it and let it go forward, is even worse.

Overall, this goes a long way towards explaining Tennessee's problems in the recent past. The coaching staff is obviously out of touch with its players and the emotional state of the team, and in terms of getting a team ready to play, it's crucial for the coaching staff to have a feel for where the players are mentally.

This is pretty clearly not the case at Tennessee.

Finally, if I'm the AD at Tennessee, I don't have the kids in my office, I have Holly Warlick in my office, and it's not a pleasant encounter. It's not like there are 100 football players or 30 baseball players to keep track of; this is a small roster, and this is a marquee program at the university. How any coach in any sport could let things get to this point is a serious problem, but even more so for Warlick and women's basketball.

The more I think about this, the worse it is ...


Thats not at all how or what the situation unfolded into .



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/06/17 10:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
What's scary to me is that an internal conflict on a team could escalate to the point that a physical resolution was required without the coaches stepping in.

First, one would think the coaching staff would be aware on its own of the tension between the players, and if not, that other players would let them know.

This is worth a closer look, I think. One of my jobs as a coach, head or assistant, is to have a sense of my team and how the players interact. Obviously, I would love it if they all liked each other and hung out together, but that seldom happens -- so I'm always on the lookout for tensions and issues and I try to talk to various players to see who's involved and what might be causing the problems.

Usually, these tensions can be dissipated with individual conversations, but sometimes it's necessary to bring the players in together and talk things through. These are talented players, and strong-willed young women, but coaches at this level get paid a lot of money to be able to communicate with these athletes and work through these specific kinds of problems.

Another angle is to have the captains step in either with or without the presence of the coaches and have them try to get the players through it. (I don't know who the captains at Tennessee are -- hopefully Nared isn't one of them.)

I have to presume that the coaches didn't know about the fight in advance, which means a) that they weren't in touch with the team enough to know emotions had run that high; and b) (and more important) that no players felt this was important enough to tell the coaches, or that none of the coaches asked the players how things were going in such a manner that it would have been revealed.

Either a) or b) is pretty much inexcusable. The other option, that the coaches knew about it and let it go forward, is even worse.

Overall, this goes a long way towards explaining Tennessee's problems in the recent past. The coaching staff is obviously out of touch with its players and the emotional state of the team, and in terms of getting a team ready to play, it's crucial for the coaching staff to have a feel for where the players are mentally.

This is pretty clearly not the case at Tennessee.

Finally, if I'm the AD at Tennessee, I don't have the kids in my office, I have Holly Warlick in my office, and it's not a pleasant encounter. It's not like there are 100 football players or 30 baseball players to keep track of; this is a small roster, and this is a marquee program at the university. How any coach in any sport could let things get to this point is a serious problem, but even more so for Warlick and women's basketball.

The more I think about this, the worse it is ...


Thats not at all how or what the situation unfolded into .


Then how did the situation unfold?



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Howee



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PostPosted: 06/06/17 11:00 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
First, one would think the coaching staff would be aware on its own of the tension between the players, and if not, that other players would let them know.


In general, I would agree with you. HOWEVER, as a former teacher/coach, I was always surprised at how sophisticated even little kids can be in obstruction of truth, LOL.

Now. Take high-profile, sophisticated, street-smart college-aged kids. Add in a cause for fighting that NONE of their peers would rat them out on (i.e., romantic entanglements?) and a LOT can happen without coaches knowing of it all.

Just sayin'.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 06/06/17 11:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PhillyCat wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
PhillyCat wrote:
Happycappie25 wrote:


I'm more WOW warlick has lost the team more than Cooper fd up...and what about the WHOLE TEAM watching and filming it...and Posting to social media for a brief time apparently.



If true, this is the most troubling aspect of this story. The first instinct of at least one teammate was to get the phone out and start filming? What's going on down there in Knoxville?


The whole team Portion was a bit embellished i believe , there were a few players from the team not all .


The whole team, some of the team, doesn't matter. Stop it, don't film it. That part of this story is strange.


The stuff you see being filmed these days - it's like a societal reaction to reach for the friggin phone to record it instead of helping someone.



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purduefanatic



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PostPosted: 06/06/17 11:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
ClayK wrote:
First, one would think the coaching staff would be aware on its own of the tension between the players, and if not, that other players would let them know.


In general, I would agree with you. HOWEVER, as a former teacher/coach, I was always surprised at how sophisticated even little kids can be in obstruction of truth, LOL.

Now. Take high-profile, sophisticated, street-smart college-aged kids. Add in a cause for fighting that NONE of their peers would rat them out on (i.e., romantic entanglements?) and a LOT can happen without coaches knowing of it all.

Just sayin'.


Completely agree. Coaches can be kept in the dark if players want them to be.


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PostPosted: 06/06/17 11:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There are a lot of concerning issues about this case. As I said previously, trouble has been simmering for a while, and reportedly there have been all sorts of team meetings over the past several years to try to improve things. Cooper has also been in trouble before, which apparently influenced the university's decision. I don't know if CHW is just ineffective and failed to put her foot down soon enough, or if this mess reflects the entitlement and behavioral issues that other coaches have brought up recently. I do think these players are immature in bringing their issues onto the court. Parker's teams reportedly hated each other but were able to put that aside once they put on their uniforms and have a couple of rings to show for it.


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PostPosted: 06/06/17 11:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
The stuff you see being filmed these days - it's like a societal reaction to reach for the friggin phone to record it instead of helping someone.


I completely agree! I mean, I help to run some recruiting events here in the Midwest and I actually had a parent come up to me to complain about the officials. He proceeded to open up a video he had of the guy making some calls he didn't think were right as well as lack of hustle. Mind you, this was a 14U girls basketball in April with no college coaches in attendance.

You would seriously think that these games were for a national title and millions of dollars are at stake.


Howee



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PostPosted: 06/06/17 1:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
Now. Take high-profile, sophisticated, street-smart college-aged kids. Add in a cause for fighting that NONE of their peers would rat them out on (i.e., romantic entanglements?) and a LOT can happen without coaches knowing of it all.


Just to re-iterate: I wasn't implying anything other than: this was NOT about Jaime using the last of the hair gel, or ruining T'ea's favorite blouse. I'd bet my last dollar it was about a boy-or-girl rivalry.

But yeah: TAPE IT? Ladiezzz..... Rolling Eyes



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PostPosted: 06/06/17 2:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
Howee wrote:
Now. Take high-profile, sophisticated, street-smart college-aged kids. Add in a cause for fighting that NONE of their peers would rat them out on (i.e., romantic entanglements?) and a LOT can happen without coaches knowing of it all.


Just to re-iterate: I wasn't implying anything other than: this was NOT about Jaime using the last of the hair gel, or ruining T'ea's favorite blouse. I'd bet my last dollar it was about a boy-or-girl rivalry.

But yeah: TAPE IT? Ladiezzz..... Rolling Eyes



Who you been talking too howee Idea Cool



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PostPosted: 06/06/17 5:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

purduefanatic wrote:
Howee wrote:
ClayK wrote:
First, one would think the coaching staff would be aware on its own of the tension between the players, and if not, that other players would let them know.


In general, I would agree with you. HOWEVER, as a former teacher/coach, I was always surprised at how sophisticated even little kids can be in obstruction of truth, LOL.

Now. Take high-profile, sophisticated, street-smart college-aged kids. Add in a cause for fighting that NONE of their peers would rat them out on (i.e., romantic entanglements?) and a LOT can happen without coaches knowing of it all.

Just sayin'.


Completely agree. Coaches can be kept in the dark if players want them to be.


Of course ... but the problem here, it seems to me, is that the players wanted the coaches to be in the dark. In a more cohesive program, that would not be what the players wanted.



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PostPosted: 06/06/17 9:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
There are a lot of concerning issues about this case. As I said previously, trouble has been simmering for a while, and reportedly there have been all sorts of team meetings over the past several years to try to improve things. Cooper has also been in trouble before, which apparently influenced the university's decision. I don't know if CHW is just ineffective and failed to put her foot down soon enough, or if this mess reflects the entitlement and behavioral issues that other coaches have brought up recently. I do think these players are immature in bringing their issues onto the court. Parker's teams reportedly hated each other but were able to put that aside once they put on their uniforms and have a couple of rings to show for it.


Since Te'a has apparently been in enough trouble to get the disciplinary committee involved, and it wasn't a first offense, and she was going to be given choice of leaving voluntarily or....well, I would say that what the fight boiled down to was something extremely serious and a whole lot more than anything y'all may have suggested. In my estimation, the fight may more likely have been about the honor and reputation of the team and possibly CHW. I believe that Jaime is one of the tri-captains of the team and the player most respected by the others, therefore it fell to her to defend that honor. I'm also willing to bet that Te'a (and not DD, as a lot of people want you to believe) has been the primary s**t-stirrer and source of disordered chemistry on the team, even though she wasn't playing this past year, and may even have been a major reason for Alexa Middleton's departure. It will be interesting to see how things go next year.

BTW, I do know a little bit about how the disciplinary committee works as my dad was on it at UT once upon a time. The things you have to do as an athlete to get kicked out aren't pretty.



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PostPosted: 06/06/17 9:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
purduefanatic wrote:
Howee wrote:
ClayK wrote:
First, one would think the coaching staff would be aware on its own of the tension between the players, and if not, that other players would let them know.


In general, I would agree with you. HOWEVER, as a former teacher/coach, I was always surprised at how sophisticated even little kids can be in obstruction of truth, LOL.

Now. Take high-profile, sophisticated, street-smart college-aged kids. Add in a cause for fighting that NONE of their peers would rat them out on (i.e., romantic entanglements?) and a LOT can happen without coaches knowing of it all.

Just sayin'.


Completely agree. Coaches can be kept in the dark if players want them to be.


Of course ... but the problem here, it seems to me, is that the players wanted the coaches to be in the dark. In a more cohesive program, that would not be what the players wanted.


Who says the coaches were in the dark on this one, or that the fistfight was even the real reason for Cooper getting the boot? Seems to me that the REAL reason was disciplinary committee action that had prior and current offenses to go on. That child is FAR from an angel. She may not last at SC either.



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PostPosted: 06/07/17 12:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
ClayK wrote:
What's scary to me is that an internal conflict on a team could escalate to the point that a physical resolution was required without the coaches stepping in.

First, one would think the coaching staff would be aware on its own of the tension between the players, and if not, that other players would let them know.

This is worth a closer look, I think. One of my jobs as a coach, head or assistant, is to have a sense of my team and how the players interact. Obviously, I would love it if they all liked each other and hung out together, but that seldom happens -- so I'm always on the lookout for tensions and issues and I try to talk to various players to see who's involved and what might be causing the problems.

Usually, these tensions can be dissipated with individual conversations, but sometimes it's necessary to bring the players in together and talk things through. These are talented players, and strong-willed young women, but coaches at this level get paid a lot of money to be able to communicate with these athletes and work through these specific kinds of problems.

Another angle is to have the captains step in either with or without the presence of the coaches and have them try to get the players through it. (I don't know who the captains at Tennessee are -- hopefully Nared isn't one of them.)

I have to presume that the coaches didn't know about the fight in advance, which means a) that they weren't in touch with the team enough to know emotions had run that high; and b) (and more important) that no players felt this was important enough to tell the coaches, or that none of the coaches asked the players how things were going in such a manner that it would have been revealed.

Either a) or b) is pretty much inexcusable. The other option, that the coaches knew about it and let it go forward, is even worse.

Overall, this goes a long way towards explaining Tennessee's problems in the recent past. The coaching staff is obviously out of touch with its players and the emotional state of the team, and in terms of getting a team ready to play, it's crucial for the coaching staff to have a feel for where the players are mentally.

This is pretty clearly not the case at Tennessee.

Finally, if I'm the AD at Tennessee, I don't have the kids in my office, I have Holly Warlick in my office, and it's not a pleasant encounter. It's not like there are 100 football players or 30 baseball players to keep track of; this is a small roster, and this is a marquee program at the university. How any coach in any sport could let things get to this point is a serious problem, but even more so for Warlick and women's basketball.

The more I think about this, the worse it is ...


Thats not at all how or what the situation unfolded into .


Then how did the situation unfold?


Waiting to hear the response...


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