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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/21/17 8:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
So 11 out of twelve can't inflate the numbers enough to beat last years inflated numbers.

"Hello Lisa, we have a problem."


The league low was in 2015 when the league averaged just 7,318 a game. They should easily got over 7,000; but to get anywhere near 7,400 just doesn't seem likely. Those Dallas & Atlanta numbers are what is really hurting the league.



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josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 06/21/17 9:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
So 11 out of twelve can't inflate the numbers enough to beat last years inflated numbers.

"Hello Lisa, we have a problem."


I have always thought that Ms. Borders was full of hot air and lofty catchy cliche slogans but very weak on substance and numbers. I think she said over a million viewers watched the ESPN opener and that obviously is false. I might be judging her too harshly but still.

On the same note I just don't understand why LA isn't drawing. They just won the championship in dramatic fashion and watching their games almost all of the seating is empty, even on the lower levels. In a huge metropolitan area like LA they can't do better? I just don't understand why.


zune69



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PostPosted: 06/21/17 11:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the sudden drop in attendance is due to the BLM protest.Multiple players on a number of teams were very outspoken about the high profile police shootings/ killings.

Top reasons for drop in attendance:

1.BLM protest
2.Players retiring(Catchings,Taylor)
3.Lack of interest(Dal,Atl)
4.Players getting traded/playing for new teams(EDD,Dupree,Sims,Toliver)
5.Players sitting out for various reasons(Angel,Bonner)
6.Players showing up late.


toad455



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PostPosted: 06/28/17 4:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

A lot of good crowds this past week. Glad to see the Lynx playing at the Xcel Center hasn't hurt their attendance. Without Atlanta & Dallas, the league would be averaging 7,544.

Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)

1. Los Angeles Sparks(6) - 9,584 (-54)
2. Phoenix Mercury(6) - 9,357 (-995)
3. Minnesota Lynx(6) - 9,193 (-73)
4. New York Liberty(8) - 9,025 (-700)
5. San Antonio Stars(6) - 6,781 (+396)
6. Seattle Storm(8) - 6,756 (-474)
7. Indiana Fever(7) - 6,675 (-1,900)
8. Washington Mystics(8) - 6,326 (-603)
9. Chicago Sky(7) - 6,081 (-928)
10. Connecticut Sun(5) - 5,963 (+126)
11. Atlanta Dream(4) - 4,291 (-1,324)
12. Dallas Wings(8) - 3,674 (-1,624)
WNBA Average(79) - 6,987 (-667)



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josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 06/28/17 7:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think San Antonio might have become the league's worst inflation case this year. Is there anyone who thinks they are drawing more than 2k per game right now? Too bad too, because San Antonio has become a real big basketball town (thanks in no small part to the continued success of the Spurs).


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/28/17 8:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

josephkramer44 wrote:
I think San Antonio might have become the league's worst inflation case this year. Is there anyone who thinks they are drawing more than 2k per game right now? Too bad too, because San Antonio has become a real big basketball town (thanks in no small part to the continued success of the Spurs).


Id say 4K at the max i was at the game last week when they played My Wings But 6K is just disrespectful



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toad455



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PostPosted: 07/05/17 7:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Slight dip this past week due to the holiday weekend. We'll see how the crowds look this coming week/weekend.

Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)

1. Phoenix Mercury(7) - 9,638 (-713)
2. Los Angeles Sparks(7) - 9,527 (-111)
3. Minnesota Lynx(6) - 9,193 (-73)
4. New York Liberty(8) - 9,025 (-700)
5. Seattle Storm(8) - 6,756 (-474)
6. Indiana Fever(8) - 6,650 (-1,925)
7. San Antonio Stars(7) - 6,518 (+133)
8. Connecticut Sun(6) - 6,414 (+577)
9. Washington Mystics(9) - 6,233 (-696)
10. Chicago Sky(7) - 6,081 (-928)
11. Atlanta Dream(6) - 4,134 (-1,480)
12. Dallas Wings(9) - 3,715 (-1,583)
WNBA Average(88) - 6,929 (-725)



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Randy



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PostPosted: 07/05/17 10:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NY, LA, PH and MN all averaging over 9k. I was trying to look at the crowds from Live Access but its pretty hard. Some of the teams (DC, Atl, SA, DAL) make it pretty easy to see a lot of empty seats. NY is hard to tell how many empty seats, but LA, PH and MN do seem have "real" crowds. My guess is the 4 top teams aren't inflating the numbers a lot while many if not most of the other teams are. Do fans of these teams think their numbers seem realistic? How about the rest of the teams?

I'm pretty sure the published Dream numbers are a dream.....


adamj95



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PostPosted: 07/05/17 12:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Very impressive that the Lynx are -73 in a different building.


toad455



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PostPosted: 07/05/17 12:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

adamj95 wrote:
Very impressive that the Lynx are -73 in a different building.


I am, too.

The three teams that worry me the most are Atlanta, Dallas & Chicago. I wouldn't worry about the Stars as the Spurs seem committed to the team. The Sky ownership always seems positive in his interviews and talks about how close they are to turning a profit. The Dream & Wings are drawing flies right now. I'd be worried about the Dream after 2018. So do they go back to Phillips Arena or does the owner pull the plug? Do the Wings ownership move the team again or are they done after another year or so in Dallas drawing only 3k a game?



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miller40



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PostPosted: 07/05/17 12:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wish there were stats on season ticket holder renewal.


josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 07/05/17 6:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Minnesota's moving from the Target to the Excel center is like trading in your BMW for a Mercedes. Both are about as accessible as one another and both are very modern facilities, which is great for everyone concerned. MPLS/St. Paul are literally one city. When I was at the U there I lived in MPLS but walked literally one city block and was in St. Paul. No reason to see their attendance decline.

While studying attendance figures I took a close look at Phoenix's attendance and their facility. A careful counting of Talking Stick Arena's lower lever and Sky boxes (capacity of 20 each and around 106) shows a seating capacity of around 9,500 or so. When watching their games I notice (Minnesota's as well) that the end of the courts tend to be very empty and the side the camera's are not on tend to be less occupied (I can't put a real percentage on it). Watching a Phoenix game it is safe to say about 1/3 to 2/5 of the seats are empty in the lower area (and most of the sky boxes appear empty). So even Phoenix's number are greatly inflated. One benefit though is that Phoenix is one of the few areas in the nation where people want to be inside during the summer. Nuck Nuck Nuck.

Both Minnesota and Phoenix also give away significant numbers of tickets. Phoenix has an arrangement with Fry's electronics that offer free tickets for a modest amount of money spent there and there is also an arrangement with the AZ lottery for free tickets among other things. One thing I noticed last there was that both team's announced attendances for playoff games was much much lower than the season average. The conclusion I draw from that is that there is less time to distribute free/cheaper tickets that hurts the draw significantly.

NY's attendance is very hard to gauge due to the dark design of the arena. I can never accurately gauge LA's because everyone there is always fashionably late (traditional in LA sports). The one team I see a BIG positive increases in attendance in is Washington, despite the lower announced numbers. Good for Washington. I still sense a lack of respect for the franchise from the people who own it though.


Happycappie25



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PostPosted: 07/05/17 7:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

josephkramer44 wrote:
NY's attendance is very hard to gauge due to the dark design of the arena. I can never accurately gauge LA's because everyone there is always fashionably late (traditional in LA sports). The one team I see a BIG positive increases in attendance in is Washington, despite the lower announced numbers. Good for Washington. I still sense a lack of respect for the franchise from the people who own it though.


The Libs use a $15 GA scheme...which are the upper endcourts which normally get packed during the first half then disperse to snatch lower seats at the half.

The bench side (which the TV shoots to) is where most STH are packed...it gets about 3/4 full on a bad day (7-8k) packed on a 9k

2 quirks...there are 4 rows that are parts of suites that cannot be sold right near courtside, giving an odd swatch of empty seats and a corner non tv section which even on days they spillover into the upper deck that always has empty seats at all time...we believe this may be the work of scalpers.

yes there are games like pride night and playoffs where street selling is a nusance (!) lol



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PostPosted: 07/06/17 7:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
adamj95 wrote:
Very impressive that the Lynx are -73 in a different building.


I am, too.

The three teams that worry me the most are Atlanta, Dallas & Chicago. I wouldn't worry about the Stars as the Spurs seem committed to the team. The Sky ownership always seems positive in his interviews and talks about how close they are to turning a profit. The Dream & Wings are drawing flies right now. I'd be worried about the Dream after 2018. So do they go back to Phillips Arena or does the owner pull the plug? Do the Wings ownership move the team again or are they done after another year or so in Dallas drawing only 3k a game?


You say this same thing every week Laughing Its like your wishing it happens.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 07/16/17 7:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Updated numbers. Sorry for the delay, was away last week. These numbers are up to and including all of today's games. Lots of good crowds the past week and a half. Lots of camps days, too.

Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)

1. Los Angeles Sparks(8) - 9,576 (-62)
2. Phoenix Mercury(11) - 9,469 (-882)
3. Minnesota Lynx(8) - 9,375 (+109)
4. New York Liberty(10) - 9,174 (-550)
5. Indiana Fever(10) - 7,349 (-1,226)
6. Chicago Sky(9) - 7,068 (+59)
7. Seattle Storm(12) - 6,948 (-282)
8. Connecticut Sun(8) - 6,364 (+527)
9. San Antonio Stars(9) - 6,341 (-44)
10. Washington Mystics(9) - 6,233 (-696)
11. Atlanta Dream(8) - 4,023 (-1,592)
12. Dallas Wings(11) - 3,698 (-1,600)
WNBA Average(113) - 7,123 (-531)



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josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 07/16/17 11:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nothing to apologize for. I might as well say thank you for everyone. The data you provide us with here is much appreciated. Thanks for your time.


toad455



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PostPosted: 07/22/17 8:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Numbers at the All-Star break. 6 huge camp day crowds gave those teams a nice bump as well as a solid bump in the league average. The average attendance for this week was: 12,542. The league average without Atlanta & Dallas is 8,211.

Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)

1. Los Angeles Sparks(10) - 10,416 (+778)
2. Minnesota Lynx(9) - 10,315 (+1,049)
3. New York Liberty(11) - 9,926 (+202)
4. Phoenix Mercury(12) - 9,627 (-724)
5. Indiana Fever(10) - 7,349 (-1,226)
6. Washington Mystics(10) - 7,170 (+241)
7. Chicago Sky(9) - 7,068 (+59)
8. Seattle Storm(13) - 7,056 (-174)
9. San Antonio Stars(10) - 6,438 (+53)
10. Connecticut Sun(8) - 6,364 (+527)
11. Atlanta Dream(9) - 4,399 (-1,215)
12. Dallas Wings(11) - 3,698 (-1,600)
WNBA Average(122) - 7,523 (-131)



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 07/22/17 10:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Numbers at the All-Star break. 6 huge camp day crowds gave those teams a nice bump as well as a solid bump in the league average. The average attendance for this week was: 12,542. The league average without Atlanta & Dallas is 8,211.

Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)

1. Los Angeles Sparks(10) - 10,416 (+778)
2. Minnesota Lynx(9) - 10,315 (+1,049)
3. New York Liberty(11) - 9,926 (+202)
4. Phoenix Mercury(12) - 9,627 (-724)
5. Indiana Fever(10) - 7,349 (-1,226)
6. Washington Mystics(10) - 7,170 (+241)
7. Chicago Sky(9) - 7,068 (+59)
8. Seattle Storm(13) - 7,056 (-174)
9. San Antonio Stars(10) - 6,438 (+53)
10. Connecticut Sun(Cool - 6,364 (+527)
11. Atlanta Dream(9) - 4,399 (-1,215)
12. Dallas Wings(11) - 3,698 (-1,600)
WNBA Average(122) - 7,523 (-131)


The decline for Indiana and Atlanta make sense, but Dallas is troubling ... just 3,698 announced? That means probably 2,000 in the arena ...



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Randy



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PostPosted: 07/22/17 10:28 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Dream fans just need some time off to rest. We've had year after year of 12 months of basketball in the city with the Hawks and Dream. Our bodies and vocal chords are just getting worn out. Just so long as nobody calls them the "Failing Atlanta Dream" I'm ok.


pilight



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PostPosted: 07/22/17 10:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
I think Dream fans just need some time off to rest. We've had year after year of 12 months of basketball in the city with the Hawks and Dream. Our bodies and vocal chords are just getting worn out. Just so long as nobody calls them the "Failing Atlanta Dream" I'm ok.


McCamish is a pain in the ass to get to. The traffic in that area is horrific and the closest MARTA station (Midtown) is close to a mile walk.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 07/22/17 11:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Randy wrote:
I think Dream fans just need some time off to rest. We've had year after year of 12 months of basketball in the city with the Hawks and Dream. Our bodies and vocal chords are just getting worn out. Just so long as nobody calls them the "Failing Atlanta Dream" I'm ok.


McCamish is a pain in the ass to get to. The traffic in that area is horrific and the closest MARTA station (Midtown) is close to a mile walk.


I'm just hoping the owners are willing to take a hit these two seasons they're at McCamish. I'm sure the rent is cheaper, but still.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 07/22/17 12:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
Randy wrote:
I think Dream fans just need some time off to rest. We've had year after year of 12 months of basketball in the city with the Hawks and Dream. Our bodies and vocal chords are just getting worn out. Just so long as nobody calls them the "Failing Atlanta Dream" I'm ok.


McCamish is a pain in the ass to get to. The traffic in that area is horrific and the closest MARTA station (Midtown) is close to a mile walk.


For me (coming down 400 to 85/75) it cuts out the last few miles which typically takes the most time to get to the arena. I may be one of the few that benefits from the location. In case you weren't aware of it, there is a good, cheap, parking lot just on the other side of 85 on 10th St underneath the student housing building. I bought parking passes, so I'm not sure how it has been this season but in the past I parked there and space was always available.


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PostPosted: 07/22/17 3:22 pm    ::: Give-away Tickets Reply Reply with quote

It has been my impression that the Lynx give away far less tickets than they used to.

Additionally the cost of tickets has gone up and up for the Lynx. I can go to a Minnesota Twins game for far less than I pay for Lynx tickets.

The big numbers attending Lynx games is amazing. In a city where people want to be outside in summer, with plenty of competition from other athletic teams, and without being the cheapest game in town, the Lynx still bring the crowds.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 07/22/17 3:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Liberty tickets prices went up this season, too. Fans are still showing up. My once $34 ticket is now $48. I think the general admission seats went up, too. I'm very impressed with the Lynx's numbers considering they're not playing at Target Center.



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josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 07/23/17 12:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Lynx still give away an EXTREMELY large number of tickets. They don't do anywhere near as many team promotions but rather they distribute them gratis to numerous organizations and businesses via the office. One of the better indicators of how many free tickets a team gives away is gauging the attendance of their playoff games vs the regular season games. Lynx playoff games see a very steep decline in attendance from regular season games, in part due to the fact there is not enough time to distribute additional tickets.


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PostPosted: 07/23/17 1:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

josephkramer44 wrote:
The Lynx still give away an EXTREMELY large number of tickets. They don't do anywhere near as many team promotions but rather they distribute them gratis to numerous organizations and businesses via the office. One of the better indicators of how many free tickets a team gives away is gauging the attendance of their playoff games vs the regular season games. Lynx playoff games see a very steep decline in attendance from regular season games, in part due to the fact there is not enough time to distribute additional tickets.


I didn't say the Lynx don't give tickets away to charitable organizations. They do. I said they give away less. And six or seven years ago Lynx tickets were easy to get very cheap. Not now.

As for play-off game drop-offs. Really? Because additional sections of the venue have often been opened for play-off games, and why would they do that for an empty venue? I attended play-off games last year and they were packed.

I do think that certain teams vastly outdraw others even in the play-offs. LA and Phoenix sell more tickets here.



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josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 07/23/17 2:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The finals games are fuller yes. But even the announced attendance, let alone the actual attendance were significantly less than last year's regular season. I believe there are still videos of the Lynx Mercury games from last year's playoffs. The crowds were certainly smaller than during the regular season. Still Glenn Taylor certainly takes his ownership of the Lynx seriously and does his best to put on a quality product and at the same time turn a profit. Which is a lot more than can be said for other owners.


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PostPosted: 07/23/17 6:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's important to remember that revenue is more important than tickets distributed, and we have no access to comparative revenue numbers.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 08/02/17 10:11 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Most impressed with the Lynx's numbers considering they're not playing at the Target Center this season.

Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)

1. Minnesota Lynx(11) - 10,490 (+1,224)
2. Los Angeles Sparks(12) - 10,436 (+798)
3. New York Liberty(11) - 9,926 (+202)
4. Phoenix Mercury(13) - 9,664 (-687)
5. Indiana Fever(11) - 7,282 (-1,293)
6. Washington Mystics(10) - 7,170 (+241)
7. Seattle Storm(14) - 7,109 (-121)
8. Chicago Sky(10) - 6,970 (-39)
9. San Antonio Stars(13) - 6,371 (-14)
10. Connecticut Sun(11) - 6,229 (+392)
11. Atlanta Dream(12) - 4,336 (-1,278)
12. Dallas Wings(11) - 3,698 (-1,600)
WNBA Average(140) - 7,459 (-196)



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Hawkeye



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PostPosted: 08/02/17 1:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

josephkramer44 wrote:
I think San Antonio might have become the league's worst inflation case this year. Is there anyone who thinks they are drawing more than 2k per game right now? Too bad too, because San Antonio has become a real big basketball town (thanks in no small part to the continued success of the Spurs).


Remember folks, attendance isn't how many show up, it's how many tickets are sold.


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PostPosted: 08/02/17 1:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's actually the number sold plus the number given away. So it can be about anything the owners want to claim it is so long as it is less than the arena capacity.


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PostPosted: 08/02/17 2:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So my wings need to start just giving out free tickets to everyone in the city. They have never given out free tickets not even since game 1 last season. Bibb is interested in getting his $$$ i see.



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josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 08/02/17 7:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The idea of tickets distributed counting rather than gate attendance is what allows the WNBA to manipulate their figures to whatever they want. Yeah I know other leagues do the same but as a total percentage the WNBA exaggerates far more than any other league. It should annoy any honest statistician but it is useful for WNBA presidents when they lie or try to justify their paycheck.
As things stand now the league remains stuck in continuous irrelevancy, desperately crying out for respect and legitimacy. Once again too if ESPN continues their downsizing (which I think they will as cable tv is dying as streaming is taking its place more and more every day) and they take ESPN2 off the air (which I think they will in around five years) then the league loses its public forum. I don't see NBATV stepping in to help, as their ratings are significantly higher for old replay games and documentaries.


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PostPosted: 08/02/17 8:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
It's actually the number sold plus the number given away. So it can be about anything the owners want to claim it is so long as it is less than the arena capacity.


Is there an official source for "announced attendance = tickets sold + tickets given away" ?


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PostPosted: 08/03/17 6:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

http://www.latimes.com/la-sp-attendance-082305-story.html

Quote:
The NBA and NHL announce the number of tickets distributed, adding complimentary tickets -- for players' families, league officials, sponsors and such -- to the number of tickets sold.


The WNBA uses the same metric.


tfan



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PostPosted: 08/03/17 1:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
http://www.latimes.com/la-sp-attendance-082305-story.html

Quote:
The NBA and NHL announce the number of tickets distributed, adding complimentary tickets -- for players' families, league officials, sponsors and such -- to the number of tickets sold.


The WNBA uses the same metric.


Thanks. I like the way they detail complimentary tickets that total a 100 or so and leave off the "groups and organizations" that can get thousands. I suspect that the WNBA doesn't go by this though. Was Washington really giving away 5,000+ tickets to every game the last few years? That's 85,000+ a season. But I guess the DC area is big enough to give away 85,0000 tickets and not his the same organization twice. But that is a lot of people who didn't want to see a game at any price.




Last edited by tfan on 08/03/17 2:23 pm; edited 4 times in total
toad455



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PostPosted: 08/03/17 2:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The announced attendance also includes all season tickets, whether they show up or not.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 08/03/17 2:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Randy wrote:
http://www.latimes.com/la-sp-attendance-082305-story.html

Quote:
The NBA and NHL announce the number of tickets distributed, adding complimentary tickets -- for players' families, league officials, sponsors and such -- to the number of tickets sold.


The WNBA uses the same metric.


Thanks. I like the way they detail complimentary tickets that total a 100 or so and leave off the "groups and organizations" that can get thousands. I suspect that the WNBA doesn't go by this though. Was Washington really giving away 5,000+ tickets to every game the last few years? After a while you think they would start getting turned down - the organization is getting feedback that nobody went to the last game so they would say no thanks to more free tickets - give them to somebody else. And at some point you would run out of somebody else.



Which may well be why attendance is down some cities. They literally can't give the tickets away in some cases. A number of years ago it was reported the Hawks were giving away an average of 5,000 tickets each game.


toad455



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 9:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

some small crowds over this past weekend(Dallas, Atlanta, San Antonio) dropped the league average quiet a bit. The league better have some nice crowds to finish out the season to avoid being worse than 2015(7,318 final average).

Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)

1. Los Angeles Sparks(13) - 10,526 (+888)
2. Minnesota Lynx(11) - 10,490 (+1,224)
3. New York Liberty(12) - 9,938 (+214)
4. Phoenix Mercury(13) - 9,664 (-687)
5. Indiana Fever(13) - 7,414 (-1,161)
6. Washington Mystics(11) - 7,192 (+263)
7. Seattle Storm(14) - 7,109 (-121)
8. Chicago Sky(11) - 6,860 (-39)
9. Connecticut Sun(13) - 6,439 (+602)
10. San Antonio Stars(15) - 6,243 (-142)
11. Atlanta Dream(13) - 4,310 (-1,304)
12. Dallas Wings(14) - 3,714 (-1,584)
WNBA Average(153) - 7,405 (-249)



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Randy



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 9:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Comparing this to pilight's Changes thread numbers is interesting:

Quote:
Code:
+- Team TY LY
+7 Connecticut 15-9 8-16
+5 Washington 15-10 10-15
+4 Dallas 13-14 9-18
+2 Phoenix 13-12 11-14
+1 Minnesota 20-3 19-4
0 San Antonio 6-21 6-21
0 Seattle 10-15 10-15
-3 Atlanta 10-15 13-12
-3 Chicago 10-16 13-13
-3 Indiana 9-17 12-14
-3 Los Angeles 18-7 21-4
-5 New York 12-12 17-7



LA's gain is understandable after winning their ship despite not doing as well this season so far. Lynx gains are very good considering that they didn't win it all last year, and are doing about the same this year. Sun numbers are up because they are winning a lot more. Drop off for Indy is not surprising given the record change and loss of Catchings. Not only is Atlanta in a different arena, the team isn't doing as well. NY has a much worse record but some more fans are showing up. Dallas is doing better on the court, but much worse in the stands. Perhaps the most surprising is DC - team is doing much better, but adding EDD and Toliver hasn't helped much at the box office. (Then again, Mystics numbers have always be subject to suspicion.)


toad455



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 9:38 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The most shocking numbers are Dallas & Washington. I was expecting good sized crowds in DC with Delle Donne there & it just didn't happen. Dallas' numbers are just sad. To only see 3,000 in the stands with half of the arena tarped off isn't good. Atlanta's numbers were expected to drop with the temporary move. Very pleased that the Lynx numbers are way up despite not playing at the Target Center.



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ClayK



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 10:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Look for a late-season burst in reported attendance to get past the 2015 numbers (if not the 2016).

It's amazing how attendance goes up for those final games despite school being back in session, and football in full swing.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 10:24 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

yeah, I'm convinced the numbers will start to go up and pass last year's final number. Stars only have 2 more home games, the Wings only 3 & Atlanta only 4 while the Lynx have 6 more, the Liberty 5 more & Phoenix & LA have 4 more.



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 12:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
The most shocking numbers are Dallas & Washington. I was expecting good sized crowds in DC with Delle Donne there & it just didn't happen. Dallas' numbers are just sad. To only see 3,000 in the stands with half of the arena tarped off isn't good. Atlanta's numbers were expected to drop with the temporary move. Very pleased that the Lynx numbers are way up despite not playing at the Target Center.


I think the issue is hte location with the Dallas Team. Ive said that since Day 1 . I understand the reasoning though , arlington is the new boomtown suburb of the DFW metroplex with the cowboys & rangers playing 2 mins away , But i think most WBB fans in this city reside in the heart of Dallas. Downtown dallas and thats about 45 minutes to an hour away from Arlington. There are no Bus routes or trains that will take you to UTA - College Park center . All of those transportation methods are in the Dallas city area where the Mavericks Play and continously draw well even in horrible years like now.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 3:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Being a bit of a walk from Marta has probably also hurt the Dream. Plus, parking is harder to find or a longer walk than was the case at Phillips. Still arena rental would seem to be less for the GA Tech's arena.


josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 08/09/17 11:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Look for a late-season burst in reported attendance to get past the 2015 numbers (if not the 2016).

It's amazing how attendance goes up for those final games despite school being back in session, and football in full swing.



Good point. The numbers seem to be in general pretty stable in the past three years. The decline in tv viewership is telling though. Which is once again why I think the WNBA could try a drastically new campaign that might succeed or fail. But they could try it without alienating their current base.


toad455



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PostPosted: 08/16/17 9:06 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Realistically if you look at the numbers without Dallas & Atlanta, the league is doing better. Just such a shame two teams are dragging down the league's overall average.

Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)

1. Minnesota Lynx(12) - 10,577 (+1,311)
2. Los Angeles Sparks(13) - 10,526 (+888)
3. New York Liberty(13) - 9,949 (+225)
4. Phoenix Mercury(14) - 9,817 (-534)
5. Indiana Fever(13) - 7,414 (-1,161)
6. Washington Mystics(12) - 7,204 (+275)
7. Seattle Storm(14) - 7,109 (-121)
8. Chicago Sky(12) - 6,679 (-330)
9. Connecticut Sun(14) - 6,472 (+635)
10. San Antonio Stars(16) - 6,288 (-97)
11. Atlanta Dream(15) - 4,385 (-1,229)
12. Dallas Wings(15) - 3,744 (-1,554)
WNBA Average(163) - 7,400 (-254)

League average without Atlanta & Dallas - 8,152.



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PostPosted: 08/16/17 9:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Lynx might want to consider making their new home their permanent home because it seems to draw better.


toad455



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PostPosted: 08/16/17 10:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
The Lynx might want to consider making their new home their permanent home because it seems to draw better.


I'm curious to hear from Lynx fans if it's easier to get to the Xcel Center than the Target Center?



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josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 08/16/17 11:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I lived in the Twin Cities for many years. It's about the same. Same public transportation options, parking etc. The Excel center is newer and has a few more things to offer than the Target Center, but that may change after the renovations are completed.


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