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Shades



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PostPosted: 08/16/17 11:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
The Lynx might want to consider making their new home their permanent home because it seems to draw better.


Not after making all those renovations to Target Center. The new St Paul fans can just cruise on over to Minneapolis, now that they've seen what they've been missing out on by not making the trip to Target Center.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 08/16/17 12:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think the hope is that moving to the Xcel Center may have drawn in some new people who hadn't bothered with the Lynx before, and when they move back they keep some of them to add in to the previous group. Looking at a map it doesn't look like the distance is enough for that the be true, but maybe it could be.

Regardless, it's generally been bad news for WNBA teams when they've been displaced, so it's a great sign for them that the crowds haven't dropped (and have actually increased). Of course, being a really, really good team for a long time definitely helps that.



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Shades



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PostPosted: 08/16/17 12:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Also the expensive new practice facility is across the street from Target Center.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 08/23/17 8:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Some good sized crowds the past week. Of course, between San Antonio, Dallas & Atlanta; there was only one home game between the 3.

Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)

1. Los Angeles Sparks(14) - 10,633 (+1,025)
2. Minnesota Lynx(15) - 10,459 (+1,193)
3. New York Liberty(14) - 9,953 (+229)
4. Phoenix Mercury(14) - 9,817 (-534)
5. Indiana Fever(14) - 7,427 (-1,148)
6. Seattle Storm(16) - 7,318 (+88)
7. Washington Mystics(14) - 7,210 (+281)
8. Connecticut Sun(15) - 6,676 (+839)
9. Chicago Sky(15) - 6,588 (-421)
10. San Antonio Stars(16) - 6,288 (-97)
11. Atlanta Dream(15) - 4,385 (-1,229)
12. Dallas Wings(16) - 3,820 (-1,478)
WNBA Average(163) - 7,480 (-174)


League average without Dallas & Atlanta - 8,194.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 09/03/17 9:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FINAL NUMBERS

Some nice inflating by Washington for their final games. San Antonio also did some inflating towards the end to just get over last year's average(+1). I also wonder how real LA's numbers are.

Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)

1. Los Angeles Sparks - 11,350 (+1,712)
2. Minnesota Lynx - 10,407 (+1,141)
3. New York Liberty - 9,989 (+165)
4. Phoenix Mercury - 9,913 (-438)
5. Washington Mystics - 7,771 (+842)
6. Seattle Storm - 7,704 (+474)
7. Indiana Fever - 7,538 (-1,037)
8. Connecticut Sun - 6,728 (+891)
9. Chicago Sky - 6,583 (-426)
10. San Antonio Stars - 6,386 (+1) Rolling Eyes
11. Atlanta Dream - 4,452 (-1,162)
12. Dallas Wings - 3,872 (-1,426)
WNBA Average - 7,716 (+61)



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josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 09/03/17 11:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Standard pack of lies. Par for the course. I'm sure its to give legitimacy to Lisa Borders' claims of success. Be prepared next for the lowest attendance in league history, due to Washington's move. I wonder how that will be represented by the WNBA's PR machine.


toad455



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PostPosted: 09/04/17 5:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

josephkramer44 wrote:
Standard pack of lies. Par for the course. I'm sure its to give legitimacy to Lisa Borders' claims of success. Be prepared next for the lowest attendance in league history, due to Washington's move. I wonder how that will be represented by the WNBA's PR machine.


Washington doesn't move into their cellar until 2019.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 09/06/17 5:34 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA Scores Highest Attendance In Six Years During Record-Breaking Season

http://www.wnba.com/news/wnba-scores-highest-attendance-six-years-record-breaking-season/

Quote:
The WNBA registered its highest total attendance (1,574,078) and highest average attendance (7,716) since 2011. The year was highlighted by double-digit attendance growth by the Los Angeles Sparks (+17.8%), Connecticut Sun (+15.3%) and Minnesota Lynx (+12.3%). The Sparks had their highest average attendance (11,350) since 2002, while the Lynx had its highest average attendance (10,407) since its inaugural season in 1999.


thanks due to some heavy padding by Washington & San Antonio this season.

Quote:
During its inaugural season on Twitter, the WNBA averaged 613,000 unique viewers per game. The Mercury vs. the Dallas Wings (5/14), the San Antonio Stars vs. the Wings (5/25) and the Mercury vs. the Lynx (7/14) were the three most-viewed games, averaging 1.1 million unique viewers.


Definitely the biggest positive for the league this season.



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Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 09/06/17 6:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
FINAL NUMBERS

Some nice inflating by Washington for their final games. San Antonio also did some inflating towards the end to just get over last year's average(+1). I also wonder how real LA's numbers are.

Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)

1. Los Angeles Sparks - 11,350 (+1,712)
2. Minnesota Lynx - 10,407 (+1,141)
3. New York Liberty - 9,989 (+165)
4. Phoenix Mercury - 9,913 (-438)
5. Washington Mystics - 7,771 (+842)
6. Seattle Storm - 7,704 (+474)
7. Indiana Fever - 7,538 (-1,037)
8. Connecticut Sun - 6,728 (+891)
9. Chicago Sky - 6,583 (-426)
10. San Antonio Stars - 6,386 (+1) Rolling Eyes
11. Atlanta Dream - 4,452 (-1,162)
12. Dallas Wings - 3,872 (-1,426)
WNBA Average - 7,716 (+61)


Winning a lot of games is the ultimate attendance tonic. Having a hometown star play in her backyard really is not a factor.



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PostPosted: 09/06/17 8:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[quote="toad455"]WNBA Scores Highest Attendance In Six Years During Record-Breaking Season

http://www.wnba.com/news/wnba-scores-highest-attendance-six-years-record-breaking-season/

Quote:
The WNBA registered its highest total attendance (1,574,078) and highest average attendance (7,716) since 2011. The year was highlighted by double-digit attendance growth by the Los Angeles Sparks (+17.8%), Connecticut Sun (+15.3%) and Minnesota Lynx (+12.3%). The Sparks had their highest average attendance (11,350) since 2002, while the Lynx had its highest average attendance (10,407) since its inaugural season in 1999.


That was a quick announcement. Ms. Borders has to justify her salary somehow. But like my grandfather used to say "never let the truth get in the way of a good story."


ClayK



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PostPosted: 09/07/17 9:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

[quote="josephkramer44"]
toad455 wrote:
WNBA Scores Highest Attendance In Six Years During Record-Breaking Season

http://www.wnba.com/news/wnba-scores-highest-attendance-six-years-record-breaking-season/

Quote:
The WNBA registered its highest total attendance (1,574,078) and highest average attendance (7,716) since 2011. The year was highlighted by double-digit attendance growth by the Los Angeles Sparks (+17.8%), Connecticut Sun (+15.3%) and Minnesota Lynx (+12.3%). The Sparks had their highest average attendance (11,350) since 2002, while the Lynx had its highest average attendance (10,407) since its inaugural season in 1999.


That was a quick announcement. Ms. Borders has to justify her salary somehow. But like my grandfather used to say "never let the truth get in the way of a good story."


The WNBA has been blatantly padding attendance late in the season for years to reach predetermined numbers. I'm not sure how many other leagues do the same, but I do know the San Francisco Giants kept their long, long sold-out streak (recently snapped) by altering the definition of sell-out as needed and ignoring large swathes of unoccupied seats.



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Randy



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PostPosted: 09/07/17 11:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't really get why fans are so obsessed with attendance numbers. The only people who have a reason to care about it are owners and sponsors. Owners can't fool themselves. Sponsors go to great lengths to measure the value of sponsorship and I doubt they are easily fooled by the published numbers. For mere fans, it doesn't really matter that much.


BobScoutingReport



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PostPosted: 09/07/17 1:54 pm    ::: WNBA attendance 2017 Reply Reply with quote

WNBA attendance may be up in some cities. In reality, it does not matter so long as ESPN is willing to give each franchise close to $2 million per year for games it could get to broadcast for much less. My guess is this generous payment is thanks to NBA President Adam Silver who is a strong supporter of the WNBA. Without the ESPN money, the six non-NBA owned franchises might be sweating their finances a lot more.

It is no secret that in relative terms, times are now a lot tougher at ESPN as individual subscribers choose not to include them in their cable packages (where they can pick and choose their stations). So ESPN financial health is about as important to the WNBA as its own.


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PostPosted: 09/07/17 6:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
I don't really get why fans are so obsessed with attendance numbers. The only people who have a reason to care about it are owners and sponsors. Owners can't fool themselves. Sponsors go to great lengths to measure the value of sponsorship and I doubt they are easily fooled by the published numbers. For mere fans, it doesn't really matter that much.

I'm not obsessed with attendance, but it does matter to me because I love this league and wish it were better supported.
These women aren't going to earn what they deserve without more people being willing to pay to watch the games.



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Aladyyn



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PostPosted: 09/07/17 6:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Randy wrote:
I don't really get why fans are so obsessed with attendance numbers. The only people who have a reason to care about it are owners and sponsors. Owners can't fool themselves. Sponsors go to great lengths to measure the value of sponsorship and I doubt they are easily fooled by the published numbers. For mere fans, it doesn't really matter that much.

I'm not obsessed with attendance, but it does matter to me because I love this league and wish it were better supported.
These women aren't going to earn what they deserve without more people being willing to pay to watch the games.


They are. Just not in the US...


Randy



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PostPosted: 09/07/17 6:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:
Randy wrote:
I don't really get why fans are so obsessed with attendance numbers. The only people who have a reason to care about it are owners and sponsors. Owners can't fool themselves. Sponsors go to great lengths to measure the value of sponsorship and I doubt they are easily fooled by the published numbers. For mere fans, it doesn't really matter that much.

I'm not obsessed with attendance, but it does matter to me because I love this league and wish it were better supported.
These women aren't going to earn what they deserve without more people being willing to pay to watch the games.


I agree, but as a fan there is nothing I can do about it except bring some people to games. I've done that when I could find someone who wanted to go. It is simply not that easy.


Randy



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PostPosted: 09/07/17 6:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Aladyyn wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
Randy wrote:
I don't really get why fans are so obsessed with attendance numbers. The only people who have a reason to care about it are owners and sponsors. Owners can't fool themselves. Sponsors go to great lengths to measure the value of sponsorship and I doubt they are easily fooled by the published numbers. For mere fans, it doesn't really matter that much.

I'm not obsessed with attendance, but it does matter to me because I love this league and wish it were better supported.
These women aren't going to earn what they deserve without more people being willing to pay to watch the games.


They are. Just not in the US...


I get it that the players get paid more. The question is - are there really a lot more fans showing up for games overseas?


Luuuc



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PostPosted: 09/07/17 7:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
Randy wrote:
I don't really get why fans are so obsessed with attendance numbers. The only people who have a reason to care about it are owners and sponsors. Owners can't fool themselves. Sponsors go to great lengths to measure the value of sponsorship and I doubt they are easily fooled by the published numbers. For mere fans, it doesn't really matter that much.

I'm not obsessed with attendance, but it does matter to me because I love this league and wish it were better supported.
These women aren't going to earn what they deserve without more people being willing to pay to watch the games.


I agree, but as a fan there is nothing I can do about it except bring some people to games. I've done that when I could find someone who wanted to go. It is simply not that easy.

My post was in response to yours, but it wasn't addressing you personally.
Yes, as fans, we can get to games, bring others to games, engage on social media, support the league's sponsors, and also do our best to communicate with our teams & the league about things they could be doing better.
It saddens me that superfans like caune & huskie are no longer attending games. That to me is a clear sign that basic things are being screwed up.



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PostPosted: 09/07/17 7:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I look at the attendance of individual teams. If a team is losing enough money, it is always a candidate for folding, particularly for the non-NBA teams. But the Warriors owner may save any team that folds.


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PostPosted: 09/07/17 7:48 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
I look at the attendance of individual teams. If a team is losing enough money, it is always a candidate for folding, particularly for the non-NBA teams. But the Warriors owner may save any team that folds.


The Wings & Dream are the only teams I'm currently worried about for this scenario. I don't think the Spurs will pull the plug on the Stars. The fans were once there, I just hope they can get the team out of the cellar.



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PostPosted: 09/07/17 7:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:

It saddens me that superfans like caune & huskie are no longer attending games. That to me is a clear sign that basic things are being screwed up.


But don't most things get old over time? 20 years is a long time to maintain the same enthusiasm for an activity.


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PostPosted: 09/07/17 9:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
Luuuc wrote:

It saddens me that superfans like caune & huskie are no longer attending games. That to me is a clear sign that basic things are being screwed up.


But don't most things get old over time? 20 years is a long time to maintain the same enthusiasm for an activity.


Also - while some may complain about it - the local broadcasts with a good HD TV far surpass anything you can see at a game unless you have front row seats. You have no traffic to fight, no fans getting up in front of you all the time, much cheaper food and drink and no annoying nonsense like the wave or (defense, defense, defense,,,,,) you are supposed to join in on. Staying at home may be too much competition for the actual in arena games.


Michelle89



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PostPosted: 09/08/17 2:32 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
Aladyyn wrote:
Luuuc wrote:
Randy wrote:
I don't really get why fans are so obsessed with attendance numbers. The only people who have a reason to care about it are owners and sponsors. Owners can't fool themselves. Sponsors go to great lengths to measure the value of sponsorship and I doubt they are easily fooled by the published numbers. For mere fans, it doesn't really matter that much.

I'm not obsessed with attendance, but it does matter to me because I love this league and wish it were better supported.
These women aren't going to earn what they deserve without more people being willing to pay to watch the games.


They are. Just not in the US...


I get it that the players get paid more. The question is - are there really a lot more fans showing up for games overseas?


No the biggest clubs are just owned by rich people who like to have teams or teams that are supported by the government or grants.



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PostPosted: 09/08/17 11:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

As long as ESPN2 is on the air then the WNBA should have a platform. Generally speaking ratings are very low for just about everything shown on ESPN2 and the WNBA ratings there do seem to make it at least worthwhile for ESPN2. I mean what else are they going to show that would garner substantially better ratings. But if ESPN continues to downsize (not sure) and ESPN2 does go off the air then there could be some issues, because most programming shown on ESPN would probably be more marketable than a WNBA game. Still worry about that when the time comes.

In regards to fans showing up overseas, having lived in Europe for some time (I'm back in the US for quite some time though) I can assure you neither men's nor women's basketball is very appealing there. It's like America's tepid relationship with Soccer. It is a very niche sport even in places like Lithuania and Serbia, which are probably the two biggest basketball countries in Europe. People are just as likely, if not more likely to attend a volleyball match. In general in Europe a Club owns several sports teams (basketball, volleyball, handball and football etc.) with the same name and it is easy to move a little money from one team to another.
As for playing in the Rodina I just don't see how they could possibly make a profit. Generally speaking your average Russian has no interest in watching a tall black woman who is probably gay play a sport. Racial hatred and anti homosexual feelings run VERY deep in all of Russia.


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PostPosted: 09/09/17 10:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Basketball is also pretty cheap to produce, and the arenas are almost all designed so it's easy for TV.

The WNBA is a good product for ESPN, all things considered. It's not great, but it's not terrible either.



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Rock Hard



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PostPosted: 09/09/17 7:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I know this subject is not related to attendance but I'm very curious about the number of people that annually subscribe to WNBA League Pass?



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PostPosted: 09/09/17 8:09 pm    ::: ESPN & WNBA Reply Reply with quote

I am glad that I am not the only person who sees the future of the WNBA as closely linked to ESPN's financial health. Continued ESPN downsizing is sadly more critical than actual attendance. Ms. Borders & her predecessors believe they must show the league as growing its fan base to attract business support.

As for the Dream at GA Tech, my recent research found that the Dream did not get a sweet deal there with rent no cheaper than at Philips. Dream management did not see any other viable options and GA Tech (so to speak) made them pay the shot.

I do not see any teams rushing to fold so long as the rich vein of ESPN money continues to flow. If that stops, all bets are off as to long term league survival at 12 teams.


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PostPosted: 09/09/17 8:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

were there no other arenas for the Dream to play in? Could they have played in Gwinnett?



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PostPosted: 09/09/17 8:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Gwinnett Arena is 20+ mi north of Atlanta, not anywhere near MARTA and the drive to get there on I-85 makes weeknight (M-F) games virtually impossible. We used to go to minor league hockey games there - it was a 2 hour drive on weeknights at best. They had a WNBA playoff game and a finals game there in 2009 and 2013 respectively, I believe and crowds were poor. So yeah- Gwinnett was out of the question.

BobScoutingReport - is it possible the Dream had a bit of a "sweetheart deal" with Phillips already so Tech looks bad in comparison? I'm not sure who sets the rent on Phillips for the Dream - but I think the city owns the arena so local politics could play a role (Lisa Borders when she was in public office was one of the big movers and shakers in getting the Dream into Atlanta.)


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PostPosted: 09/10/17 9:17 am    ::: Dream question Reply Reply with quote

I have not gotten any specific information on cost of rental at Philips in a few years. Then it was well into five figures but what you might expect for such a venue. I heard that Gwinnett Arena was considered but ruled out for reasons others had stated.

Dream management saw no other options and perhaps the GA Tech people saw an opportunity to garner some unexpected funding showing little mercy I might add. My impression was that the Dream was paying no less at Georgia Tech (with poorer attendance) and it was not cheap price-wise from what I heard.

I got the impression that the Dream is continuing in Atlanta with the ESPN money as the financial backbone as to carrying forth. I heard the Philips renovations will take another summer with the Dream reluctantly expecting to be back at GA Tech in 2018.

Oh, I am amazed at talk of WNBA expansion. I find that hard to believe on so many levels.


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PostPosted: 09/10/17 9:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The Dream were always planning to spend two summers at McCamish



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PostPosted: 09/13/17 10:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lynx were under 8,000 for the first time this season as Game 1 attendance was 7,834. Their lowest playoff crowd since 2004.


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PostPosted: 09/13/17 10:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

dinkytown wrote:
Lynx were under 8,000 for the first time this season as Game 1 attendance was 7,834. Their lowest playoff crowd since 2004.


I can only imagine if they were playing at Target or Xcel, they would have had at least 10K. Really sucks for teams forced out of the home arenas for the playoffs.



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 1:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thought it was interesting that, according to the commentators in Game 1 of the Lynx-Mystics series, it's a) a WNBA rule that all arenas mut be air conditioned, and b) will cost the Lynx over a million dollars to pump the air into Williams Arena if they make the Finals. That's a high price, and you wonder what the franchise would've done if they weren't backed by Glen Taylor's cash. A lot of WNBA owners would blanch at that expense.

Maybe the Wild being long-term tenants at Xcel made it impossible, but you'd think that if there was one team who could reserve an arena for playoff games well in advance, it'd be the Lynx. It's certainly not a surprise that they needed a home venue to play in on these dates.



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 1:39 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's hard to believe it cost a million dollars (more than the salary cap). For that price I'm thrift shopping for a permanent AC system and asking the Gophers to share in the cost.

They probably should have just installed a basketball court over the ice at Mariuchi Arena. Nice and cold.... maybe too cold.



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PostPosted: 09/14/17 6:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

It's a shame Target Center isn't ready ahead of schedule. The first event there is a NBA preseason game on Oct. 20.



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PostPosted: 07/09/18 7:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
So 11 out of twelve can't inflate the numbers enough to beat last years inflated numbers.

"Hello Lisa, we have a problem."

This year is a good opportunity for everyone to return to publishing numbers that are remotely realistic. That way we can spend the whole next decade fudging the numbers again in a long streak of "continual growth"
/cynic



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 3:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Games of July 11, 2018

MIN-IND: 10006
ATL-WASH: 11354
NYL-CON: 7413

As an aside, Mohegan Sun Arena has a capacity of 9,323 for basketball. Today's attendance represents 79.51 percent of capacity.


toad455



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PostPosted: 07/11/18 4:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

CamrnCrz1974 wrote:
Games of July 11, 2018

MIN-IND: 10006
ATL-WASH: 11354
NYL-CON: 7413

As an aside, Mohegan Sun Arena has a capacity of 9,323 for basketball. Today's attendance represents 79.51 percent of capacity.


I know they got jumbled up, but this is the 2017 attendance thread.



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