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toad455



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PostPosted: 05/31/17 10:15 am    ::: 2017 ATTENDANCE TRACKER Reply Reply with quote

Typical low numbers to start the season off. Memorial Day weekend saw some very low numbers. Upcoming camp games for most teams in June & the start of schools letting out should slowly start to up numbers. Most worried about Atlanta not playing at Philips Arena plus the Sky losing Delle Donne & the Fever without Catchings.

Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)

1. Los Angeles Sparks(2) - 11,365 (+1,727)
2. Phoenix Mercury(4) - 8,917 (-1,434)
3. Minnesota Lynx(3) - 8,767 (-499)
4. San Antonio Stars(2) - 8,011 (+1,626)
5. New York Liberty(3) - 7,773 (-1,951)
6. Indiana Fever(2) - 6,630 (-1,945)
7. Connecticut Sun(2) - 6,389 (+552)
8. Washington Mystics(2) - 6,282 (-647)
9. Seattle Storm(4) - 6,160 (-1,070)
10. Chicago Sky(3) - 5,948 (-1,061)
11. Atlanta Dream(2) - 4,556 (-1,058)
12. Dallas Wings(2) - 4,123 (-1,176)
WNBA Average(31) - 7,177 (-478)



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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/07/17 8:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

some really low numbers the past week including only 2,085 in Dallas last night. The lowest average ever in league history belongs to the Chicago Sky in their first season in 2006 when they only averaged 3,390. Numbers should start to increase over the next few weeks.

Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)

1. Los Angeles Sparks(3) - 10,418 (+780)
2. Phoenix Mercury(4) - 8,917 (-1,434)
3. Minnesota Lynx(3) - 8,767 (-499)
4. New York Liberty(5) - 7,715 (-2,009)
5. San Antonio Stars(4) - 6,852 (+467)
6. Indiana Fever(3) - 6,596 (-1,979)
7. Connecticut Sun(2) - 6,389 (+552)
8. Seattle Storm(5) - 6,443 (-787)
9. Washington Mystics(4) - 5,819 (-1,110)
10. Chicago Sky(4) - 5,619 (-1,390)
11. Atlanta Dream(3) - 4,308 (-1,306)
12. Dallas Wings(3) - 3,443 (-1,855)
WNBA Average(43) - 6,814 (-840)



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 06/07/17 9:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Numbers should start to increase over the next few weeks...

...when the League office realises how bad they've been and tells everyone to lie better.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/07/17 9:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Numbers should start to increase over the next few weeks...

...when the League office realises how bad they've been and tells everyone to lie better.


Originally, the smallest crowd in league history was the Stars' 1,738 on June 25, 2015. The number was changed WEEKS LATER to 3,102. The original number of 1,738 was believed to be a league record. I wonder if the league will change the Wings' number weeks later, too.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 06/07/17 10:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Numbers should start to increase over the next few weeks...

...when the League office realises how bad they've been and tells everyone to lie better.


Originally, the smallest crowd in league history was the Stars' 1,738 on June 25, 2015. The number was changed WEEKS LATER to 3,102. The original number of 1,738 was believed to be a league record. I wonder if the league will change the Wings' number weeks later, too.

In fairness it did seem to fill up as the game went on. Dunno if that was because someone noticed how bad it looked on TV and moved everyone around to the seats in front of the cameras, but it definitely looked like a late-arriving crowd that wasn't quite as bad as it initially appeared.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 06/07/17 10:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just want to point out that even with their attendance down by 1,000, the Mystics are still drawing nearly 2,000 more than their new arena will hold.

Indeed, even now, with attendance low at the start of the season, only the Wings' crowd would fit in the Mystics facility.


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PostPosted: 06/07/17 12:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Just want to point out that even with their attendance down by 1,000, the Mystics are still drawing nearly 2,000 more than their new arena will hold.

Indeed, even now, with attendance low at the start of the season, only the Wings' crowd would fit in the Mystics facility.

Well, they're reporting a number bigger than that venue will hold. 'Drawing' might be overstating it.



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/07/17 12:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Numbers should start to increase over the next few weeks...

...when the League office realises how bad they've been and tells everyone to lie better.


Originally, the smallest crowd in league history was the Stars' 1,738 on June 25, 2015. The number was changed WEEKS LATER to 3,102. The original number of 1,738 was believed to be a league record. I wonder if the league will change the Wings' number weeks later, too.

In fairness it did seem to fill up as the game went on. Dunno if that was because someone noticed how bad it looked on TV and moved everyone around to the seats in front of the cameras, but it definitely looked like a late-arriving crowd that wasn't quite as bad as it initially appeared.


Yes the crowds here in dallas normally dont start to fill in til about halfway through the 2nd . The traffic here in out of control especially for a 7 pm game on a weekday ! The wings do not allow the fans to move down seats neither so ill take the crowd got bigger as the game went on as the only option.



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josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 06/07/17 9:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I have heard from a couple of different sources that the new Mystics arena has some murky financial dealings with the DC city government and the Wizards owners. I just don't see why they needed a different arena.
From what I can tell the attendance of a typical Mystics game this year so far would probably fit just fine in their new arena. I know they are reporting less than last year but even though I don't have raw proof I strongly believe they are attracting a larger crowd than last year (Thanks again LeaguePass). They just aren't exaggerating as much.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/08/17 9:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

josephkramer44 wrote:
I have heard from a couple of different sources that the new Mystics arena has some murky financial dealings with the DC city government and the Wizards owners. I just don't see why they needed a different arena.
From what I can tell the attendance of a typical Mystics game this year so far would probably fit just fine in their new arena. I know they are reporting less than last year but even though I don't have raw proof I strongly believe they are attracting a larger crowd than last year (Thanks again LeaguePass). They just aren't exaggerating as much.


It would make sense for the Mystics to slowly align their reported attendance with reality to justify their move to the smaller arena.

There's a possibility it could work out well, as 3,000 people in a 4,200-seat arena could make for an energetic atmosphere. And if there are sellouts, that's good news too, in a way -- when was the last time people couldn't get tickets to a WNBA game?



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josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 06/08/17 11:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Excellent points. From a monetary perspective for those teams that don't have any relationship with NBA teams it would be more efficient and help with the bottom line. One concern might be that better talent would gravitate towards the teams with more impressive venues (speculation on my part though). I read somewhere that is one reason why WNBA teams who have a relationship with NBA teams don't use private planes (don't quote me on that though).


Richyyy



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PostPosted: 06/08/17 12:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Teams don't use private planes because it's in the rules that they can't. One of the many that are in there to try to even the playing field and keep costs down, so that independent ownership is more viable (and encourage the non-billionaire owners to stick around).



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MuneravenMN



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PostPosted: 06/09/17 5:19 pm    ::: MN Hurt by several things Reply Reply with quote

I think Lynx attendence is being impacted by the following:

1. Temporary relocation to Saint Paul.
2. Twins winning and playing outdoors.
3. Ticket prices have gone up and up while STH benefits have gone down.

I predict attendance will inch up over the Summer.



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dinkytown



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PostPosted: 06/09/17 6:28 pm    ::: Re: MN Hurt by several things Reply Reply with quote

MuneravenMN wrote:
I think Lynx attendence is being impacted by the following:

1. Temporary relocation to Saint Paul.
2. Twins winning and playing outdoors.
3. Ticket prices have gone up and up while STH benefits have gone down.

I predict attendance will inch up over the Summer.


I've been keeping track of attendance also and I have the Lynx averaging 648 MORE than the 3 games from last year (8,767 vs. 8,119). My numbers may be wrong though. Very Happy


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PostPosted: 06/09/17 7:06 pm    ::: Re: MN Hurt by several things Reply Reply with quote

MuneravenMN wrote:
I think Lynx attendence is being impacted by the following:

1. Temporary relocation to Saint Paul.
2. Twins winning and playing outdoors.
3. Ticket prices have gone up and up while STH benefits have gone down.

I predict attendance will inch up over the Summer.


I agree but Lib attendance is worse and alarming...done everything right still had a quality roster, coming off 2 straight 20 win seasons and we're below 2014 I believe...and this includes

Opening day

Sparks

Lynx

and one Friday one sunday

yes prices have gone up but from what ive seen the WALK UP is solid (normally in the endcourts which are packed) but the sides are pathetic so the STH base has shrunk...I dunno what happens but yeah I have NOT been happy with the Liberty front office and their "it'll get better" responses don't give me hope...really odd because they've done everything right in terms of getting the word out...been quiet and giving it time but I don't see much more and well just drives home winning isn't everything when it comes to selling tickets which just makes me sad



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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/09/17 8:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Liberty always start off with low numbers(7-8,000). They'll get the 10Ks in July & August once schools are done.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 06/10/17 12:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The dallas franchise is already in trouble...

Sparks/Wings:3169


Happycappie25



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PostPosted: 06/10/17 7:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Liberty always start off with low numbers(7-8,000). They'll get the 10Ks in July & August once schools are done.


Feels different this time...namely opening day which is normally a 9 or 10 was only 8.5

And normally its the sides that fill up and the ends that don't now it's the opposite making me wonder if the STH base shrank which would be odd

Of course I hope your right Smile Sparks game had a great walk up the one endcourt section was full until they realized they could claim better seats and did so...

Strong walk up is encouraging tho for once school is out...next 2 games important...a sunday and pride night which for the libs is one of the most important sales games of the season.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/10/17 7:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
The dallas franchise is already in trouble...

Sparks/Wings:3169


I agree. Hard to believe they drew better in Tulsa. Such a shame. I hope the owners don't bail on the team too quickly. The Wings attendance plus Atlanta not playing at Philips Arena might result in the lowest league average in history.



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Luuuc



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PostPosted: 06/10/17 8:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
The dallas franchise is already in trouble...

Sparks/Wings:3169


I agree. Hard to believe they drew better in Tulsa. Such a shame. I hope the owners don't bail on the team too quickly. The Wings attendance plus Atlanta not playing at Philips Arena might result in the lowest league average in history.

Lynx playing in St Paul probably won't be helping either
(not that I believe a single "attendance" figure published by the WNBA anyway!)



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Randy



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PostPosted: 06/10/17 10:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe the problem with teams playing in these small arena's is that it is just too obvious they are blowing up the numbers. Or maybe the teams are paying less for rent and feel less need to make up high numbers.

The Atlanta Hawks came up with a novel way to increase attendance - they have a paid cheering section. They actually pay fans (mostly college kids) to come an make a lot of noise. They give them signs, giant head posters, etc. They have a whole section. With Dream and Wings playing in college arenas it should not be hard to find some nearby college kids that would come for few hot dogs and a free ticket. (Will Cheer for food.)


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PostPosted: 06/12/17 12:41 pm    ::: WNBA attendance Reply Reply with quote

I have not weighed in on this issue in several years because it is really a non-issue - for better or worse!

The WNBA franchises have badly (doubled at times or maybe more?) inflated actual paid attendance for years. At one point several years back, I was involved in trying to determine what was the basis of those attendance figures. Being given the run-around by various officials involved at franchise and league level, I concluded the figure represented different things depending on the objective at the moment. Most often I believed it represented "tickets out." That means those sold to individuals and given away (used or not) for promotion. That could mean to a sponsoring corporation or just stuck in an official's pocket.

About four (maybe five) years ago, I thought the league would be gone by 2015. What I was wrong about was the influx of corporate (mostly ESPN and uniform sponsors) money. This has taken a lot of pressure off the bottom line for those franchises that are most concerned with it (currently half are NBA-owned where the WNBA is a sideshow financially).

Real in-house fan support for the league is not growing and has not for years. What has changed (not sure why) for the better is corporate support. Most teams now have a uniform sponsor rather than one or two. I have no idea what each team is getting in exchange for name on jersey but let us hope that all are of the $400,000+ variety (like the first few). Next, please throw in the Verizon deal which appears to be the successor to the Boost Mobile deal announced in 2011). Last but most important is money from ESPN (close to $2 million year per franchise based on last announced deal). Granted, ESPN has had some financial issues lately but I have not heard of that deal (small in size as these things go) having been voided. I have no idea how the Twitter feeds are affecting WNBA bottom lines but it cannot be hurting things.

Assuming my thought are close to accurate on corporate money, funds from direct attendance are less important than ever. Granted, it would be nice to have more people in the house (as the saying goes). I have said that as long as ESPN wants a WNBA, there will be one.


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PostPosted: 06/12/17 12:41 pm    ::: WNBA attendance Reply Reply with quote

I have not weighed in on this issue in several years because it is really a non-issue - for better or worse!

The WNBA franchises have badly (doubled at times or maybe more?) inflated actual paid attendance for years. At one point several years back, I was involved in trying to determine what was the basis of those attendance figures. Being given the run-around by various officials involved at franchise and league level, I concluded the figure represented different things depending on the objective at the moment. Most often I believed it represented "tickets out." That means those sold to individuals and given away (used or not) for promotion. That could mean to a sponsoring corporation or just stuck in an official's pocket.

About four (maybe five) years ago, I thought the league would be gone by 2015. What I was wrong about was the influx of corporate (mostly ESPN and uniform sponsors) money. This has taken a lot of pressure off the bottom line for those franchises that are most concerned with it (currently half are NBA-owned where the WNBA is a sideshow financially).

Real in-house fan support for the league is not growing and has not for years. What has changed (not sure why) for the better is corporate support. Most teams now have a uniform sponsor rather than one or two. I have no idea what each team is getting in exchange for name on jersey but let us hope that all are of the $400,000+ variety (like the first few). Next, please throw in the Verizon deal which appears to be the successor to the Boost Mobile deal announced in 2011). Last but most important is money from ESPN (close to $2 million year per franchise based on last announced deal). Granted, ESPN has had some financial issues lately but I have not heard of that deal (small in size as these things go) having been voided. I have no idea how the Twitter feeds are affecting WNBA bottom lines but it cannot be hurting things.

Assuming my thought are close to accurate on corporate money, funds from direct attendance are less important than ever. Granted, it would be nice to have more people in the house (as the saying goes). I have said that as long as ESPN wants a WNBA, there will be one.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 1:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
The dallas franchise is already in trouble...

Sparks/Wings:3169


I dont think you guys should be so alarmed. We only have a max capacity of about 7000 seats and the upper deck is mostly shut off besides the center court sections so 3169 is not as bad as it looks. You guys realize placing stigmas as if a franchise is in trouble seems to bring the inevitable "fold" ..We dont want that here in dallas so id like to stay optimistic. Bibb loves the team being here so lets not speak negatively about a 2nd year franchise still trying to climb its way atop the standings.



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 2:35 pm    ::: Re: WNBA attendance Reply Reply with quote

BobScoutingReport wrote:
I have said that as long as ESPN wants a WNBA, there will be one.


I think the ESPN/WNBA deal was done as a pre-requisite to the ESPN/NBA deal. If the WNBA wasn't a part of the NBA, I don't think ESPN would have done the WNBA deal that they did.


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PostPosted: 06/12/17 2:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Bibb loves the team being here so lets not speak negatively about a 2nd year franchise still trying to climb its way atop the standings.


OK, but Bibb is the GM. Have the owners (who were sitting courtside at the last game) said anything recently?


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PostPosted: 06/12/17 3:09 pm    ::: Re: WNBA attendance Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
BobScoutingReport wrote:
I have said that as long as ESPN wants a WNBA, there will be one.


I think the ESPN/WNBA deal was done as a pre-requisite to the ESPN/NBA deal. If the WNBA wasn't a part of the NBA, I don't think ESPN would have done the WNBA deal that they did.


That's what I think as well. I suspect it was easier to subsidize the WNBA by moving the rounding error in the NBA contract over to the WNBA side. Made it much easier for the NBA owners to swallow because about half of basketball revenue goes to the NBA players.


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PostPosted: 06/12/17 3:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
Bibb loves the team being here so lets not speak negatively about a 2nd year franchise still trying to climb its way atop the standings.


OK, but Bibb is the GM. Have the owners (who were sitting courtside at the last game) said anything recently?



To be honest "Not Recently" but the last grumbles i heard out of Arlington went along the lines of seats warming , But the LA win might have cooled them off.



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 10:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Even with these new sources of revenue I wonder if certain teams are going to be able to be profitable. The owner of the New York Liberty said recently he almost gave control of the team back to the WNBA and their attendance is better than most teams. The owners of the Sparks had to give up control a couple years ago even though they draw more than average.
Now with that in mind I would think the teams with the smallest margin of error would be the non NBA linked teams. Teams that play in the NBA arenas and share staff and other overhead expenses with their male counterparts should have no issues. If one year they lose money they can simply write it down as a slightly less profitable year and if they make a little bit of money excellent. However there are some teams working on very limited budgets. One of the reasons why I think leaner, smaller more efficient operations are in the future for more teams.
I do marketing and field research on niche products (I am involved in such products and services myself) which is one of the reasons why I have been doing research on the WNBA the past couple of seasons. It is a niche product that has done fairly well for itself over its history and I am trying to draw lessons from its successes and failures. The big question remains will a WNBA team ever be a quality financial investment? I might have gotten a bit off topic with this but still. I didn't want to start a new topic.


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PostPosted: 06/13/17 8:15 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Core math has not changed (and neither has the approach for reporting attendance by the way, it has always been tickets distributed which is not turnstile only and is not paid only, it is total distributed).....the ESPN deal in my view saved a number of teams as it dramatically shrunk the annual losses....the core cost of paying the players, providing their required benefits, and paying for a place to play still outweighs the TV money though, so tickets and sponsorships do still matter if you want to avoid losing a few million a year as costs are only rising....smaller arena deals help but only so much (although it does in some cases improve the feel of the experience if the right small arena is chosen).....bottom line is still that this is not a profitable enterprise for independent owners, but hopefully the ones we have will continue to fund it as the great investment in the community and the sport that it is....as long as the NBA is willing to support the league it will continue to survive in some form in some number of cities....


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PostPosted: 06/13/17 9:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I've always been a supporter of smaller arenas for the league, but the Dallas franchise is on the way to proving me wrong. Regardless of capacity, upper bowl closure, etc., the attendance is horrid.

In the bigger arenas, teams will announce 6,000, say, and have 4,500 actually there -- and having 4,500 people pay for tickets to watch women play basketball is a not inconsiderable achievement. Assuming Dallas does the usual ticket counting, there are probably around 2,000 in an arena that presumably has cheaper parking and better sightlines than, say, MSG,

Now maybe it's just that Dallas is not a good market, or the franchise is run poorly, but it's not good news either way. High school girls' basketball is strong in the DFW area, with lots of elite players, which is usually a positive for franchises, but it doesn't appear to translate here.

Then again, the best way to draw fans is to win, and Dallas isn't exactly challenging Minnesota.



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PostPosted: 06/13/17 10:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I like smaller arena's too but I think the Dream will prove us wrong as well. The problem with GA Tech is parking and the MARTA access is not as good as Phillips and the other amenities are not as good. It seems to me that sponsors no longer care that much about how many eyeballs they are getting, but rather they are just paying for the notion that supporting WNBA teams is a good PR move. They clearly cannot believe the attendance numbers handed out by the teams. But, if wealthy people and big corporations want to spend money to subsidize my entertainment, I guess I shouldn't complain.


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PostPosted: 06/13/17 7:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

josephkramer44 wrote:
Even with these new sources of revenue I wonder if certain teams are going to be able to be profitable. The owner of the New York Liberty said recently he almost gave control of the team back to the WNBA and their attendance is better than most teams. The owners of the Sparks had to give up control a couple years ago even though they draw more than average.


Snip

The Dolan Isiah thing is MUCH deeper than that quote.

#1 it occurred after a disasterous 3 years at Pru center and a lackluster MSG return mostly due to a letdown of a season.

#2. I have doubts if the team was actually in any actual true peril. The end game was to get investment from Isiah Thomas...the rumor that he spread on Page 6 was days before the Laimbeer rehire...and from all I've seen Isiah was behind the curtain for months before the announcement of him as Team Prez and minority partner (the 2nd part was withdrawn as it was not going to clear the league due to the Anucha Browne debacle)

#3. note that his insistence that the team was going to be folded had Isiah not been allowed in as team prez ALWAYS comes on his defending/Lying about the Browne affair.

4. Pretty obvious that budgets went way up from 2014 to the next 3 years...so that wouldn't be investment being kept quite by Zeke, would it...nahhh Wink

A better example would be the near miss with the Sparks...tho that was clearly malfesence by the prior owners...and Lacob would have moved the team to SF before they would have a chance to fold.



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PostPosted: 06/13/17 7:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thanks for the info. Appreciate it. Anyone know why Tulsa relocated? I would imagine that their operating costs would be a lot lower than other teams (Tulsa is a very low cost of living place).


Happycappie25 wrote:
josephkramer44 wrote:
Even with these new sources of revenue I wonder if certain teams are going to be able to be profitable. The owner of the New York Liberty said recently he almost gave control of the team back to the WNBA and their attendance is better than most teams. The owners of the Sparks had to give up control a couple years ago even though they draw more than average.


Snip

The Dolan Isiah thing is MUCH deeper than that quote.

#1 it occurred after a disasterous 3 years at Pru center and a lackluster MSG return mostly due to a letdown of a season.

#2. I have doubts if the team was actually in any actual true peril. The end game was to get investment from Isiah Thomas...the rumor that he spread on Page 6 was days before the Laimbeer rehire...and from all I've seen Isiah was behind the curtain for months before the announcement of him as Team Prez and minority partner (the 2nd part was withdrawn as it was not going to clear the league due to the Anucha Browne debacle)

#3. note that his insistence that the team was going to be folded had Isiah not been allowed in as team prez ALWAYS comes on his defending/Lying about the Browne affair.

4. Pretty obvious that budgets went way up from 2014 to the next 3 years...so that wouldn't be investment being kept quite by Zeke, would it...nahhh Wink

A better example would be the near miss with the Sparks...tho that was clearly malfesence by the prior owners...and Lacob would have moved the team to SF before they would have a chance to fold.


tfan



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PostPosted: 06/13/17 7:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

josephkramer44 wrote:
Thanks for the info. Appreciate it. Anyone know why Tulsa relocated? I would imagine that their operating costs would be a lot lower than other teams (Tulsa is a very low cost of living place).


One thing the remaining majority owner Bill Cameron mentioned was the number of Fortune 500 firms with headquarters in Tulsa, versus the number in Dallas. That was in the context of sponsorships/partnerships and advertising.

It's also possible that the GM had gotten negative feedback from free agents on playing in Tulsa and passed that on to the owners, but that's a reason they may not want to state publicly. And while attendance doesn't seem to have improved from the move, Tulsa's was not at a level that most owners would be happy with.

The April resignation of the Wings CEO Mary O'Connor makes me think that the owners aren't happy with attendance and/or sponsorships.


josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 06/13/17 9:08 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

All good points. There is certainly more opportunity for growth in the DFW area than Tulsa. Albeit right now it doesn't seem like they are gaining much traction there. I could also see Tulsa as being a turnoff to many players and coaches (the Utah Jazz have the same problem in the NBA) for numerous reasons. It certainly has a lot different demographic than other WNBA cities.

On these notes I could see Chicago looking for a new home soon. Attendance is way down, they never had the richest corporate sponsors and Illinois rules and regulations make doing business in Chicago VERY EXPENSIVE. A million dollars in Chicago is nowhere near the same as a million dollars in say San Antonio. Not trying to get into a political debate with anyone, it is simply a fact of doing business in Illinois for better or for worse.

I very much so appreciate everyone taking the time to answer my questions. I'm kind of an outsider and know next to nothing about women's basketball so I am working blind. I have found out so much information hanging out here. I hate to say this but none of the teams I contacted were willing to discuss much with me. I'm guessing they thought I was going to publish a "hit piece" on them or something. But like I said earlier it's for research and me trying to find new and effective ways to increase the appeal of certain niche products. Peace.


toad455



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PostPosted: 06/13/17 9:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I also think one of the main reasons Tulsa moved to Dallas was that the rent is very low at UT-Arlington. Apparently the rent at the BOK Center was very high.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/14/17 7:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)

1. Los Angeles Sparks(4) - 9,622 (-17)
2. Phoenix Mercury(5) - 9,178 (-1,173)
3. New York Liberty(7) - 8,851 (-873)
4. Minnesota Lynx(3) - 8,767 (-499)
5. San Antonio Stars(5) - 6,720 (+335)
6. Indiana Fever(5) - 6,332 (-2,244)
7. Seattle Storm(6) - 6,095 (-1,136)
8. Connecticut Sun(3) - 6,033 (+196)
9. Washington Mystics(6) - 5,998 (-931)
10. Chicago Sky(4) - 5,619 (-1,390)
11. Atlanta Dream(3) - 4,308 (-1,306)
12. Dallas Wings(5) - 3,499 (-1,799)
WNBA Average(56) - 6,811 (-843)



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calbearman76



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PostPosted: 06/15/17 8:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Only two teams up, San Antonio (5%) and Connecticut (2%), while 7 teams are down more than 10% (3 more than 20%). Hard to believe that the league will be able to expand with this type of weakness, and while it seems that the Bay Area is interested in a team, would they be willing to accept a failing team.


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PostPosted: 06/15/17 9:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tonight's Dream @ Fever game: "ATTENDANCE 5830"

I think they added a zero




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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/15/17 9:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

yeah, I noticed. Very sad. A lot of empty arenas early on this season.



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josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 12:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There is just no positive way to spin that. That looks like attendance in the hundreds (not joking). Indiana lost their premier player last year and that looks like its hurting. Indiana is a big basketball area so with some fresh talent things should improve.


zune69



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 4:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
The dallas franchise is already in trouble...

Sparks/Wings:3169


I dont think you guys should be so alarmed. We only have a max capacity of about 7000 seats and the upper deck is mostly shut off besides the center court sections so 3169 is not as bad as it looks. You guys realize placing stigmas as if a franchise is in trouble seems to bring the inevitable "fold" ..We dont want that here in dallas so id like to stay optimistic. Bibb loves the team being here so lets not speak negatively about a 2nd year franchise still trying to climb its way atop the standings.


It's hard to be optimistic about a 33% drop in attendance.


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PostPosted: 06/16/17 7:46 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Luuuc wrote:

Quote:
Tonight's Dream @ Fever game: "ATTENDANCE 5830"

I think they added a zero


No they are just using a "Mystics turnstyle clicker." It's kind of like doggy years.


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PostPosted: 06/16/17 8:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe it's just me, but there don't seem to be a lot of compelling teams this year. Minnesota remains strong, of course, but fans have seen this act many times -- and no matter how much they've enjoyed watching the home team lose, the Lynx may have lost a bit of attendance luster.

L.A. is in cruise control until postseason and everyone else (aside from San Antonio) seems to be somewhere in the middle with good nights and bad nights -- and no real reason to be seen on any given night.

These kinds of cycles occur in all sports, and riding them out is never fun, but obviously essential.



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PostPosted: 06/16/17 5:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Maybe it's just me, but there don't seem to be a lot of compelling teams this year.


To me there are four very compelling teams. Atlanta and Indiana are two teams without their star players for the last several years, Angel and Tamika, respectively. Yet both teams have been able to stay competitive and will probably be fighting to make the playoffs with Dallas and Connecticut. Seattle is compelling because of their young stars Stewie and Loyd. They seem to be a year or two away but they could well be the future of the league and I am intrigued to see how far they can progress. The most compelling team is Washington. We finally get to see EDD with a pretty good team around her. She hasn't yet shown how she will do in this situation. It is a shame that Emma Meesseman is overseas delaying the integration, but I am very interested in watching the Mystics' progression through the year and whether they will wind up the 2 seed.


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PostPosted: 06/16/17 6:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I was thinking DC should certainly be a lot more interesting to their fans (although, not so thrilling to Sky fans.) Dream and Fever are playing better than expected, but neither seems to be generating as much fan interest on their home court. The Dream are in a better sized arena but it suffers for parking and the amenities of Phillips though.

Having "Super Teams" seems to help the NBA when it comes to TV ratings but it is not clear it is helping the other 28 teams draw at home or on their local broadcasts. For the WNBA it seems even less clear that having a "Super Team" really helps the sport overall or not.


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PostPosted: 06/16/17 10:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I certainly see an increase in Mystics gate attendance, even if the official numbers are lower than last season. But them being relegated to a very small venue in a questionable location gives an indication of the ownership's plan for this team in the future (shame on them for what I see as basically giving up).
Atlanta has always been a tough sports town. Even the Falcon games don't always sell out when they are good. The Braves did quite well for an extended time when I was growing up and still didn't get amazing attendance. Operating expenses are comparatively low in Georgia (as opposed to places like LA, Chicago and NYC) so that does assist the Dream in a financial way. But they may be a prime candidate for the Bay Area IF that area is still interested in a team.
If the attendance numbers end up being a league historical low (especially after the big push during the 20th season and the amazing success Lisa Borders claimed afterwards) then some teams and owners might have to make difficult choices.


toad455



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PostPosted: 06/21/17 8:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The most alarming numbers are Indiana's huge drop without Catchings, Chicago's drop without Delle Donne & Dallas basically drawing flies right now.

Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)

1. Los Angeles Sparks(6) - 9,584 (-54)
2. Phoenix Mercury(6) - 9,357 (-995)
3. Minnesota Lynx(4) - 9,106 (-161)
4. New York Liberty(7) - 8,851 (-873)
5. San Antonio Stars(5) - 6,720 (+335)
6. Seattle Storm(7) - 6,608 (-622)
7. Indiana Fever(6) - 6,248 (-2,327)
8. Washington Mystics(7) - 6,182 (-747)
9. Connecticut Sun(4) - 5,729 (-108)
10. Chicago Sky(5) - 5,406 (-1,603)
11. Atlanta Dream(3) - 4,308 (-1,306)
12. Dallas Wings(6) - 3,562 (-1,737)
WNBA Average(66) - 6,922 (-732)



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Randy



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PostPosted: 06/21/17 8:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So 11 out of twelve can't inflate the numbers enough to beat last years inflated numbers.

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