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toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 05/31/17 10:15 am    ::: 2017 ATTENDANCE TRACKER Reply Reply with quote

Typical low numbers to start the season off. Memorial Day weekend saw some very low numbers. Upcoming camp games for most teams in June & the start of schools letting out should slowly start to up numbers. Most worried about Atlanta not playing at Philips Arena plus the Sky losing Delle Donne & the Fever without Catchings.

Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)

1. Los Angeles Sparks(2) - 11,365 (+1,727)
2. Phoenix Mercury(4) - 8,917 (-1,434)
3. Minnesota Lynx(3) - 8,767 (-499)
4. San Antonio Stars(2) - 8,011 (+1,626)
5. New York Liberty(3) - 7,773 (-1,951)
6. Indiana Fever(2) - 6,630 (-1,945)
7. Connecticut Sun(2) - 6,389 (+552)
8. Washington Mystics(2) - 6,282 (-647)
9. Seattle Storm(4) - 6,160 (-1,070)
10. Chicago Sky(3) - 5,948 (-1,061)
11. Atlanta Dream(2) - 4,556 (-1,058)
12. Dallas Wings(2) - 4,123 (-1,176)
WNBA Average(31) - 7,177 (-478)



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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/07/17 8:30 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

some really low numbers the past week including only 2,085 in Dallas last night. The lowest average ever in league history belongs to the Chicago Sky in their first season in 2006 when they only averaged 3,390. Numbers should start to increase over the next few weeks.

Rank. Team(# home games) - 2017 Average - (+/- 2016 Final Average)

1. Los Angeles Sparks(3) - 10,418 (+780)
2. Phoenix Mercury(4) - 8,917 (-1,434)
3. Minnesota Lynx(3) - 8,767 (-499)
4. New York Liberty(5) - 7,715 (-2,009)
5. San Antonio Stars(4) - 6,852 (+467)
6. Indiana Fever(3) - 6,596 (-1,979)
7. Connecticut Sun(2) - 6,389 (+552)
8. Seattle Storm(5) - 6,443 (-787)
9. Washington Mystics(4) - 5,819 (-1,110)
10. Chicago Sky(4) - 5,619 (-1,390)
11. Atlanta Dream(3) - 4,308 (-1,306)
12. Dallas Wings(3) - 3,443 (-1,855)
WNBA Average(43) - 6,814 (-840)



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Richyyy



Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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PostPosted: 06/07/17 9:41 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Numbers should start to increase over the next few weeks...

...when the League office realises how bad they've been and tells everyone to lie better.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/07/17 9:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Numbers should start to increase over the next few weeks...

...when the League office realises how bad they've been and tells everyone to lie better.


Originally, the smallest crowd in league history was the Stars' 1,738 on June 25, 2015. The number was changed WEEKS LATER to 3,102. The original number of 1,738 was believed to be a league record. I wonder if the league will change the Wings' number weeks later, too.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 06/07/17 10:12 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Numbers should start to increase over the next few weeks...

...when the League office realises how bad they've been and tells everyone to lie better.


Originally, the smallest crowd in league history was the Stars' 1,738 on June 25, 2015. The number was changed WEEKS LATER to 3,102. The original number of 1,738 was believed to be a league record. I wonder if the league will change the Wings' number weeks later, too.

In fairness it did seem to fill up as the game went on. Dunno if that was because someone noticed how bad it looked on TV and moved everyone around to the seats in front of the cameras, but it definitely looked like a late-arriving crowd that wasn't quite as bad as it initially appeared.



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ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 06/07/17 10:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just want to point out that even with their attendance down by 1,000, the Mystics are still drawing nearly 2,000 more than their new arena will hold.

Indeed, even now, with attendance low at the start of the season, only the Wings' crowd would fit in the Mystics facility.


Richyyy



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PostPosted: 06/07/17 12:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Just want to point out that even with their attendance down by 1,000, the Mystics are still drawing nearly 2,000 more than their new arena will hold.

Indeed, even now, with attendance low at the start of the season, only the Wings' crowd would fit in the Mystics facility.

Well, they're reporting a number bigger than that venue will hold. 'Drawing' might be overstating it.



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/07/17 12:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Richyyy wrote:
toad455 wrote:
Numbers should start to increase over the next few weeks...

...when the League office realises how bad they've been and tells everyone to lie better.


Originally, the smallest crowd in league history was the Stars' 1,738 on June 25, 2015. The number was changed WEEKS LATER to 3,102. The original number of 1,738 was believed to be a league record. I wonder if the league will change the Wings' number weeks later, too.

In fairness it did seem to fill up as the game went on. Dunno if that was because someone noticed how bad it looked on TV and moved everyone around to the seats in front of the cameras, but it definitely looked like a late-arriving crowd that wasn't quite as bad as it initially appeared.


Yes the crowds here in dallas normally dont start to fill in til about halfway through the 2nd . The traffic here in out of control especially for a 7 pm game on a weekday ! The wings do not allow the fans to move down seats neither so ill take the crowd got bigger as the game went on as the only option.



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josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 06/07/17 9:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I have heard from a couple of different sources that the new Mystics arena has some murky financial dealings with the DC city government and the Wizards owners. I just don't see why they needed a different arena.
From what I can tell the attendance of a typical Mystics game this year so far would probably fit just fine in their new arena. I know they are reporting less than last year but even though I don't have raw proof I strongly believe they are attracting a larger crowd than last year (Thanks again LeaguePass). They just aren't exaggerating as much.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 06/08/17 9:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

josephkramer44 wrote:
I have heard from a couple of different sources that the new Mystics arena has some murky financial dealings with the DC city government and the Wizards owners. I just don't see why they needed a different arena.
From what I can tell the attendance of a typical Mystics game this year so far would probably fit just fine in their new arena. I know they are reporting less than last year but even though I don't have raw proof I strongly believe they are attracting a larger crowd than last year (Thanks again LeaguePass). They just aren't exaggerating as much.


It would make sense for the Mystics to slowly align their reported attendance with reality to justify their move to the smaller arena.

There's a possibility it could work out well, as 3,000 people in a 4,200-seat arena could make for an energetic atmosphere. And if there are sellouts, that's good news too, in a way -- when was the last time people couldn't get tickets to a WNBA game?



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josephkramer44



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PostPosted: 06/08/17 11:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Excellent points. From a monetary perspective for those teams that don't have any relationship with NBA teams it would be more efficient and help with the bottom line. One concern might be that better talent would gravitate towards the teams with more impressive venues (speculation on my part though). I read somewhere that is one reason why WNBA teams who have a relationship with NBA teams don't use private planes (don't quote me on that though).


Richyyy



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PostPosted: 06/08/17 12:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Teams don't use private planes because it's in the rules that they can't. One of the many that are in there to try to even the playing field and keep costs down, so that independent ownership is more viable (and encourage the non-billionaire owners to stick around).



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MuneravenMN
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PostPosted: 06/09/17 5:19 pm    ::: MN Hurt by several things Reply Reply with quote

I think Lynx attendence is being impacted by the following:

1. Temporary relocation to Saint Paul.
2. Twins winning and playing outdoors.
3. Ticket prices have gone up and up while STH benefits have gone down.

I predict attendance will inch up over the Summer.



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dinkytown



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PostPosted: 06/09/17 6:28 pm    ::: Re: MN Hurt by several things Reply Reply with quote

MuneravenMN wrote:
I think Lynx attendence is being impacted by the following:

1. Temporary relocation to Saint Paul.
2. Twins winning and playing outdoors.
3. Ticket prices have gone up and up while STH benefits have gone down.

I predict attendance will inch up over the Summer.


I've been keeping track of attendance also and I have the Lynx averaging 648 MORE than the 3 games from last year (8,767 vs. 8,119). My numbers may be wrong though. Very Happy


Happycappie25



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PostPosted: 06/09/17 7:06 pm    ::: Re: MN Hurt by several things Reply Reply with quote

MuneravenMN wrote:
I think Lynx attendence is being impacted by the following:

1. Temporary relocation to Saint Paul.
2. Twins winning and playing outdoors.
3. Ticket prices have gone up and up while STH benefits have gone down.

I predict attendance will inch up over the Summer.


I agree but Lib attendance is worse and alarming...done everything right still had a quality roster, coming off 2 straight 20 win seasons and we're below 2014 I believe...and this includes

Opening day

Sparks

Lynx

and one Friday one sunday

yes prices have gone up but from what ive seen the WALK UP is solid (normally in the endcourts which are packed) but the sides are pathetic so the STH base has shrunk...I dunno what happens but yeah I have NOT been happy with the Liberty front office and their "it'll get better" responses don't give me hope...really odd because they've done everything right in terms of getting the word out...been quiet and giving it time but I don't see much more and well just drives home winning isn't everything when it comes to selling tickets which just makes me sad



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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/09/17 8:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Liberty always start off with low numbers(7-8,000). They'll get the 10Ks in July & August once schools are done.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 06/10/17 12:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The dallas franchise is already in trouble...

Sparks/Wings:3169


Happycappie25



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PostPosted: 06/10/17 7:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Liberty always start off with low numbers(7-8,000). They'll get the 10Ks in July & August once schools are done.


Feels different this time...namely opening day which is normally a 9 or 10 was only 8.5

And normally its the sides that fill up and the ends that don't now it's the opposite making me wonder if the STH base shrank which would be odd

Of course I hope your right Smile Sparks game had a great walk up the one endcourt section was full until they realized they could claim better seats and did so...

Strong walk up is encouraging tho for once school is out...next 2 games important...a sunday and pride night which for the libs is one of the most important sales games of the season.



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toad455



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PostPosted: 06/10/17 7:42 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
The dallas franchise is already in trouble...

Sparks/Wings:3169


I agree. Hard to believe they drew better in Tulsa. Such a shame. I hope the owners don't bail on the team too quickly. The Wings attendance plus Atlanta not playing at Philips Arena might result in the lowest league average in history.



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Luuuc



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PostPosted: 06/10/17 8:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
The dallas franchise is already in trouble...

Sparks/Wings:3169


I agree. Hard to believe they drew better in Tulsa. Such a shame. I hope the owners don't bail on the team too quickly. The Wings attendance plus Atlanta not playing at Philips Arena might result in the lowest league average in history.

Lynx playing in St Paul probably won't be helping either
(not that I believe a single "attendance" figure published by the WNBA anyway!)



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PostPosted: 06/10/17 10:57 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe the problem with teams playing in these small arena's is that it is just too obvious they are blowing up the numbers. Or maybe the teams are paying less for rent and feel less need to make up high numbers.

The Atlanta Hawks came up with a novel way to increase attendance - they have a paid cheering section. They actually pay fans (mostly college kids) to come an make a lot of noise. They give them signs, giant head posters, etc. They have a whole section. With Dream and Wings playing in college arenas it should not be hard to find some nearby college kids that would come for few hot dogs and a free ticket. (Will Cheer for food.)


BobScoutingReport



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 12:41 pm    ::: WNBA attendance Reply Reply with quote

I have not weighed in on this issue in several years because it is really a non-issue - for better or worse!

The WNBA franchises have badly (doubled at times or maybe more?) inflated actual paid attendance for years. At one point several years back, I was involved in trying to determine what was the basis of those attendance figures. Being given the run-around by various officials involved at franchise and league level, I concluded the figure represented different things depending on the objective at the moment. Most often I believed it represented "tickets out." That means those sold to individuals and given away (used or not) for promotion. That could mean to a sponsoring corporation or just stuck in an official's pocket.

About four (maybe five) years ago, I thought the league would be gone by 2015. What I was wrong about was the influx of corporate (mostly ESPN and uniform sponsors) money. This has taken a lot of pressure off the bottom line for those franchises that are most concerned with it (currently half are NBA-owned where the WNBA is a sideshow financially).

Real in-house fan support for the league is not growing and has not for years. What has changed (not sure why) for the better is corporate support. Most teams now have a uniform sponsor rather than one or two. I have no idea what each team is getting in exchange for name on jersey but let us hope that all are of the $400,000+ variety (like the first few). Next, please throw in the Verizon deal which appears to be the successor to the Boost Mobile deal announced in 2011). Last but most important is money from ESPN (close to $2 million year per franchise based on last announced deal). Granted, ESPN has had some financial issues lately but I have not heard of that deal (small in size as these things go) having been voided. I have no idea how the Twitter feeds are affecting WNBA bottom lines but it cannot be hurting things.

Assuming my thought are close to accurate on corporate money, funds from direct attendance are less important than ever. Granted, it would be nice to have more people in the house (as the saying goes). I have said that as long as ESPN wants a WNBA, there will be one.


BobScoutingReport



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 12:41 pm    ::: WNBA attendance Reply Reply with quote

I have not weighed in on this issue in several years because it is really a non-issue - for better or worse!

The WNBA franchises have badly (doubled at times or maybe more?) inflated actual paid attendance for years. At one point several years back, I was involved in trying to determine what was the basis of those attendance figures. Being given the run-around by various officials involved at franchise and league level, I concluded the figure represented different things depending on the objective at the moment. Most often I believed it represented "tickets out." That means those sold to individuals and given away (used or not) for promotion. That could mean to a sponsoring corporation or just stuck in an official's pocket.

About four (maybe five) years ago, I thought the league would be gone by 2015. What I was wrong about was the influx of corporate (mostly ESPN and uniform sponsors) money. This has taken a lot of pressure off the bottom line for those franchises that are most concerned with it (currently half are NBA-owned where the WNBA is a sideshow financially).

Real in-house fan support for the league is not growing and has not for years. What has changed (not sure why) for the better is corporate support. Most teams now have a uniform sponsor rather than one or two. I have no idea what each team is getting in exchange for name on jersey but let us hope that all are of the $400,000+ variety (like the first few). Next, please throw in the Verizon deal which appears to be the successor to the Boost Mobile deal announced in 2011). Last but most important is money from ESPN (close to $2 million year per franchise based on last announced deal). Granted, ESPN has had some financial issues lately but I have not heard of that deal (small in size as these things go) having been voided. I have no idea how the Twitter feeds are affecting WNBA bottom lines but it cannot be hurting things.

Assuming my thought are close to accurate on corporate money, funds from direct attendance are less important than ever. Granted, it would be nice to have more people in the house (as the saying goes). I have said that as long as ESPN wants a WNBA, there will be one.


WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 1:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
The dallas franchise is already in trouble...

Sparks/Wings:3169


I dont think you guys should be so alarmed. We only have a max capacity of about 7000 seats and the upper deck is mostly shut off besides the center court sections so 3169 is not as bad as it looks. You guys realize placing stigmas as if a franchise is in trouble seems to bring the inevitable "fold" ..We dont want that here in dallas so id like to stay optimistic. Bibb loves the team being here so lets not speak negatively about a 2nd year franchise still trying to climb its way atop the standings.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 06/12/17 2:35 pm    ::: Re: WNBA attendance Reply Reply with quote

BobScoutingReport wrote:
I have said that as long as ESPN wants a WNBA, there will be one.


I think the ESPN/WNBA deal was done as a pre-requisite to the ESPN/NBA deal. If the WNBA wasn't a part of the NBA, I don't think ESPN would have done the WNBA deal that they did.


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