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Best coach for developing players

 
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Which coach is the best player developer, and why.
Tara Vanderveer
7%
 7%  [ 4 ]
Geno Auriemma
56%
 56%  [ 29 ]
Sylvia Hatchell
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Barbara Stevens - 983 wins
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
C. Vivian Stringer
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
Jim Foster
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
Muffet McGraw
7%
 7%  [ 4 ]
Gary Blair
3%
 3%  [ 2 ]
Harry Perretta
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
Lisa Bluder
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Kevin Borseth
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
Wes Moore
3%
 3%  [ 2 ]
Kelly Graves
0%
 0%  [ 0 ]
G.P. Gromacki - .880 win %, 2 NC's
1%
 1%  [ 1 ]
Other, who and why
11%
 11%  [ 6 ]
Total Votes : 51

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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 04/28/17 5:35 pm    ::: Best coach for developing players Reply Reply with quote

This poll is not about what coach has won the most, or can win the most with already-elite players, or who is the best recruiter.

The idea is to identify coaches who create teams that are better than the sum of their incoming parts. Coaches who consistently turn C players into B players, or B's into A's, or A's into A+'s.

Personally, I'm not so much interested in who gets the most votes, but rather why you think that coach deserves credit and to learn things we may not know about these coaches.

For some lesser known coaches, I've added a fact. You may be interested in Googling them before voting.
GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 04/28/17 7:28 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Except for Graves, who recently has been very successful at Gonzaga and now at Oregon, and Gromacki, who has the second best winning percentage among NCAA coaches and is 294-25 (.924) at Amherst, all the coaches were selected in descending order from the bigger list of WCBB coaches who have at least 600 wins.
tfan



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PostPosted: 04/28/17 10:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
This poll is not about what coach has won the most, or can win the most with already-elite players, or who is the best recruiter.

...all the coaches were selected in descending order from the bigger list of WCBB coaches who have at least 600 wins.


I guess you are picking the coaches with the most wins as a way to have a workable objectively picked subset of coaches.

It is difficult to judge how much a player developed in college. But it seems impossible to judge how much a player's development was just from continued practice, continued playing at the college level (and possibly additional strength and conditioning work and physical maturation) and how much was from coaching instruction. And with coaching instruction it can't be known how much was from assistant coach A instruction, how much from assistant coach B instruction, or how much from the head coach instruction. But having said that, head coaches make the choice of their assistant coaches, so I guess they should get the credit for their work as well.


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PostPosted: 04/29/17 9:49 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Vivian Stringer? Shocked Shocked Shocked



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pilight



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PostPosted: 04/29/17 9:50 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
Vivian Stringer? Shocked Shocked Shocked


Rutgers turns out WNBA players far in excess of their recruiting ratings or on-court success



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 04/29/17 11:11 am    ::: Re: Best coach for developing players Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:


The idea is to identify coaches who create teams that are better than the sum of their incoming parts. Coaches who consistently turn C players into B players, or B's into A's, or A's into A+'s.


This one is really tough. The title is about player development, which I take to mean individual players, but then you say this about team development so I'm a bit confused as to which it is.

Geno was my first inclination, but he starts with the best and then turns out the best. Is it because he is so good at developing or because they are simply already the best? I think it's some of both.

Tara is one of the best at taking disparate parts and turning them into a team, but I wouldn't say that she's the best at developing individual players.

The one who has impressed me the past few years is Scott Rueck. What he gets out of those kids has been pretty amazing both as a team and with individuals....so I guess I'll go with him.



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NoDakSt



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PostPosted: 04/29/17 11:26 am    ::: Re: Best coach for developing players Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:


The idea is to identify coaches who create teams that are better than the sum of their incoming parts. Coaches who consistently turn C players into B players, or B's into A's, or A's into A+'s.


This one is really tough. The title is about player development, which I take to mean individual players, but then you say this about team development so I'm a bit confused as to which it is.

Geno was my first inclination, but he starts with the best and then turns out the best. Is it because he is so good at developing or because they are simply already the best? I think it's some of both.

Tara is one of the best at taking disparate parts and turning them into a team, but I wouldn't say that she's the best at developing individual players.

The one who has impressed me the past few years is Scott Rueck. What he gets out of those kids has been pretty amazing both as a team and with individuals....so I guess I'll go with him.


I like Rueck too but I think his forte might be team development. I'll make that argument And wait to see how his players make it
On the next level, and not necessarily in the W but on National teams and other leagues.



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GlennMacGrady



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PostPosted: 04/29/17 1:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I use polls sometimes because I find they can elicit more responses, sometimes, than an open-ended question. For example, if one just asks who is the best coach at player development without a poll, the topic may just wither on the vine.

Polls can be hard to construct. The software allows only 15 choices. And you have to figure out some sort of objective strategy even to make those choices. In this case, I used a list of highly winning coaches on the theory that those coaches probably contain many of the best player developers over their entire careers (which is why Stringer is included). However, since a great player developer may not yet have accumulated 600 wins, I did put in two other coaches, Graves and Gromacki.

I voted for Gromacki myself. Why? Although I've only watched his teams a few times, I assume he must be a great player developer to have a mind-boggling .924 winning percentage in 10 years at Amherst, including two NC's and an undefeated season. Amherst is an academic school on a par with Harvard and Stanford that has never attracted, as far as I know, any top high school basketball talents. And like all NESCAC schools, Amherst offers no athletic scholarships. Carla Berube is doing a great job developing players and winning teams at Tufts, but she can't beat Gromacki.

G.P. Gromacki's Career Coaching Record (458-62 Overall)

Saint Lawrence University (6 seasons, 143-30)
1998-99: 23-6
1999-00: 24-6
2000-01: 23-5
2001-02: 28-4
2002-03: 25-3
2003-04: 20-6

Hamilton College (1 season, 20-8)
2006-07: 20-8

Amherst College (10th season, 295-24)
2007-08: 27-3
2008-09: 29-4
2009-10: 32-1
2010-11: 32-1
2011-12: 31-2
2012-13: 30-3
2013-14: 26-4
2014-15: 25-4
2015-16: 30-2
2016-17: 33-0
Shades



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PostPosted: 04/29/17 3:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

pilight wrote:
ClayK wrote:
Vivian Stringer? Shocked Shocked Shocked


Rutgers turns out WNBA players far in excess of their recruiting ratings or on-court success


Doesn't look like you voted for her



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 04/29/17 4:02 pm    ::: Re: Best coach for developing players Reply Reply with quote

NoDakSt wrote:


I like Rueck too but I think his forte might be team development. I'll make that argument And wait to see how his players make it
On the next level, and not necessarily in the W but on National teams and other leagues.


Glenn is voting for Gromacki. You won't see many of those players in the W either. Rueck for the most part is taking C or B players and making them a level or level and 1/2 better. That doesn't mean they are going to be stars in the W.



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PostPosted: 04/29/17 6:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

On the list, I might vote for Wes Moore or Jim Foster. Not on the list, my vote goes to Kenny Brooks. I've watched him take kids that were talented, but pretty raw, and turn them into polished players...maybe not WNBA-worthy, except in a few cases, but good, solid team players with a good skill set. They also seem to come out with decent values and a good work ethic. Jazmon Gwathmey is one of my favorite examples. She was kind of awkward when she came to JMU, all arms and legs, but by the time she left she was running the show and both chucking in long-range bombs and snaking her way in for layups. She was good enough to be picked in the second round and will probably be a journeyman player, here or overseas, that teams will be happy to see. Kenny's moved on to VA Tech and I'm interested to see what he does with his own recruits there.

I didn't tick any boxes.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 04/30/17 1:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Brenda Frese.

Mediocre head coach....but does a good job of developing players.


dtrain34



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PostPosted: 04/30/17 5:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Mark Trakh, USC.

Coached no higher than three-star recruits to three straight league titles and NCAA tournament games -- competing well against final four teams Maryland in '15 and Stanford this year -- a at a once-lowly mid-major (NMSU). Only one key JC transfer during that time and maybe one who could have signed at a Pac-12 if she waited until spring of her senior hs year.

Won three straight WAC titles with a converted high school wing in 6-1 Brianna Freeman at post. Sent a player who didn't start as a freshman or junior to the WNBA in Moriah Mack. Both Mack and Freeman were WAC POYs.


Ay Mate



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PostPosted: 05/16/17 10:08 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Auriemma and it's not even close. He turns good players into elite superstars, #1 draft picks, All-Stars, MVP's and Olympians.

He also turns mediocre players (Stephanie Dolson for example) and turns them into WNBA all-stars etc.

Case in point, every player drafted from Uconn (except 1 who opted to retire due to injury instead of playing) has made WNBA rosters. Even the ones who weren't stars at Uconn. Can't say that about ANY other program.


PUmatty



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PostPosted: 05/16/17 10:20 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ay Mate wrote:
Auriemma and it's not even close. He turns good players into elite superstars, #1 draft picks, All-Stars, MVP's and Olympians.

He also turns mediocre players (Stephanie Dolson for example) and turns them into WNBA all-stars etc.

Case in point, every player drafted from Uconn (except 1 who opted to retire due to injury instead of playing) has made WNBA rosters. Even the ones who weren't stars at Uconn. Can't say that about ANY other program.


You mean the Stefanie Dolson who came to him so mediocre that she was a McDonald's All-American? The one who score two whole points more per game as a senior than she did as a freshman?


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PostPosted: 05/16/17 10:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
Auriemma and it's not even close. He turns good players into elite superstars, #1 draft picks, All-Stars, MVP's and Olympians.

He also turns mediocre players (Stephanie Dolson for example) and turns them into WNBA all-stars etc.

Case in point, every player drafted from Uconn (except 1 who opted to retire due to injury instead of playing) has made WNBA rosters. Even the ones who weren't stars at Uconn. Can't say that about ANY other program.


You mean the Stefanie Dolson who came to him so mediocre that she was a McDonald's All-American? The one who score two whole points more per game as a senior than she did as a freshman?



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PostPosted: 05/16/17 11:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

HS All-Americans and consummate players are two different things.



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PostPosted: 05/16/17 5:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
Auriemma and it's not even close. He turns good players into elite superstars, #1 draft picks, All-Stars, MVP's and Olympians.

He also turns mediocre players (Stephanie Dolson for example) and turns them into WNBA all-stars etc.

Case in point, every player drafted from Uconn (except 1 who opted to retire due to injury instead of playing) has made WNBA rosters. Even the ones who weren't stars at Uconn. Can't say that about ANY other program.


You mean the Stefanie Dolson who came to him so mediocre that she was a McDonald's All-American? The one who score two whole points more per game as a senior than she did as a freshman?


Obviously you never watched freshman Dolson as opposed to senior Dolson. The difference between the two was night and day.


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PostPosted: 05/16/17 8:07 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ay Mate wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
Auriemma and it's not even close. He turns good players into elite superstars, #1 draft picks, All-Stars, MVP's and Olympians.

He also turns mediocre players (Stephanie Dolson for example) and turns them into WNBA all-stars etc.

Case in point, every player drafted from Uconn (except 1 who opted to retire due to injury instead of playing) has made WNBA rosters. Even the ones who weren't stars at Uconn. Can't say that about ANY other program.


You mean the Stefanie Dolson who came to him so mediocre that she was a McDonald's All-American? The one who score two whole points more per game as a senior than she did as a freshman?


Obviously you never watched freshman Dolson as opposed to senior Dolson. The difference between the two was night and day.


It's not uncommon for the difference between freshman anyone and senior anyone to be night and day.


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PostPosted: 05/16/17 8:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zvyn3 wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
Auriemma and it's not even close. He turns good players into elite superstars, #1 draft picks, All-Stars, MVP's and Olympians.

He also turns mediocre players (Stephanie Dolson for example) and turns them into WNBA all-stars etc.

Case in point, every player drafted from Uconn (except 1 who opted to retire due to injury instead of playing) has made WNBA rosters. Even the ones who weren't stars at Uconn. Can't say that about ANY other program.


You mean the Stefanie Dolson who came to him so mediocre that she was a McDonald's All-American? The one who score two whole points more per game as a senior than she did as a freshman?


Obviously you never watched freshman Dolson as opposed to senior Dolson. The difference between the two was night and day.


It's not uncommon for the difference between freshman anyone and senior anyone to be night and day.


My point exactly.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 05/16/17 11:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

PUmatty wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
Auriemma and it's not even close. He turns good players into elite superstars, #1 draft picks, All-Stars, MVP's and Olympians.

He also turns mediocre players (Stephanie Dolson for example) and turns them into WNBA all-stars etc.

Case in point, every player drafted from Uconn (except 1 who opted to retire due to injury instead of playing) has made WNBA rosters. Even the ones who weren't stars at Uconn. Can't say that about ANY other program.


You mean the Stefanie Dolson who came to him so mediocre that she was a McDonald's All-American? The one who score two whole points more per game as a senior than she did as a freshman?


Not just a McDonald's All-American, but one of only 12 players picked for the USA Basketball U18 National Team.


tfan



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PostPosted: 05/16/17 11:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ay Mate wrote:
PUmatty wrote:
Ay Mate wrote:
Auriemma and it's not even close. He turns good players into elite superstars, #1 draft picks, All-Stars, MVP's and Olympians.

He also turns mediocre players (Stephanie Dolson for example) and turns them into WNBA all-stars etc.

Case in point, every player drafted from Uconn (except 1 who opted to retire due to injury instead of playing) has made WNBA rosters. Even the ones who weren't stars at Uconn. Can't say that about ANY other program.


You mean the Stefanie Dolson who came to him so mediocre that she was a McDonald's All-American? The one who score two whole points more per game as a senior than she did as a freshman?


Obviously you never watched freshman Dolson as opposed to senior Dolson. The difference between the two was night and day.


You better believe it. She scored one extra bucket a game on average. And that had to have been because of Auriemma - none of it was a result of her natural maturity and extra playing time and experience.


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PostPosted: 05/17/17 1:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Doug Bruno should definitely be on this list. He rarely gets a top 100 player yyet is always in the top 25 in the country. They come in as 3 star recruits and come out 4 star recruits for the most part.


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