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sigur3
Joined: 18 Jun 2013
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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 Posted: 04/19/17 7:45 pm ::: |
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| I'd rather wait and see if any creditable news sources report on this. Until then, I'm going to assume Plum will be in a Stars' uniform in May.
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bcdawg04
Joined: 12 Apr 2016
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Location: Seattle
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| Posted: 04/19/17 8:23 pm ::: |
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| Quote: |
| But the fallout from a process that included significant trade talks as late as today, a divided front office concerning how to properly deploy Plum, and lingering bitterness over it all, as the sharply critical comments from Plum’s agent, Lindsay Kagawa Colas, revealed in an interview late Thursday afternoon. |
??? What "late Thursday afternoon"?
Those are some bizarre comments from Kagawa. I've also heard that she is highly respected--in addition to Taurasi, she represents Bird, Maya, and Stewie. I don't get what she is saying.
Plum is excited to go to San Antonio. She is looking forward to being reunited with Jefferson and also to playing with McBride. Given the roster, it's not the ideal situation for her, but she will make the most of it. And if the Stars really want to trade her, they better do it before she gets to town because it will be that much harder for the San Antonio community to let her go after she spends some time chatting with the local media and interacting with Stars fans.
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toad455
Joined: 16 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 04/19/17 10:18 pm ::: |
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| Is Plum guaranteed to start? Does Currie come off the bench?
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 04/19/17 10:26 pm ::: |
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| toad455 wrote: |
| Is Plum guaranteed to start? Does Currie come off the bench? |
Plum's agent wanted reassurances that Plum would be a starter. I suppose a lot of endorsement money would be riding on that. Either that, or the agent is trying to force Plum to a better market, like CHI, even though CHI is even a worse fit as far being a guaranteed starter.
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RavenDog
Joined: 19 Feb 2007
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Happycappie25
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
Posts: 4174
Location: QUEENS!!!!
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| Posted: 04/20/17 5:04 am ::: |
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| If anyone is out of line here it's Kagawa I don't get why she'd rip an organization like this...yes I was the one beating the drum that it's 2 players at the same position BUT this is not how you go about doing it. This just made plum look bad and if I was her no matter what my orders were I wouldn't be very happy with my agent right now
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 04/20/17 6:18 am ::: |
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Just for fun 3 team trade (PS SA should just keep Plum and play her how they see fit)
Plum and SA's 2nd round pick in 18 (13-16 in a deep draft) to Chicago
Sloot and Baugh to Seattle (assuming this is Bird's last season, Sloot passing to Loyd and Stewart for years to come)
Copper, A. Peterson and Seattle's 1st round pick in 18 to SA
SA
Jefferson/A. Peterson
McBride/Copper
Currie/Coffey/Peters
Harrison/Dos Santos/Hamby
Alexander/De Souza
and 2 first round picks in 18
Seattle
Bird/Sloot
Loyd/KML/Whitcomb
Clark/O'hea
Stewart/Tokashiki
Swords/Langhorn/Baugh
Chicago
Plum/Faulkner
Pondexter/Quigley/Jankoska
Young/Laney
Dolson/Breland/Harris
Boyette/Parker or Coates
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UofDel_Alum
Joined: 10 Jul 2013
Posts: 3979
Location: Delaware
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| Posted: 04/20/17 6:37 am ::: |
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| I would like to see Chicago go after Plum and I like Faulkner coming off the bench.
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Happycappie25
Joined: 07 Feb 2006
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Location: QUEENS!!!!
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| Posted: 04/20/17 6:43 am ::: |
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Honestly if I'm SA id listen to SEA IFF they offer tok...who's young but blocked by stewart....I would not take Langhorne they need youth not pieces.
I'd bite at Plum straight for Tok, KML 2nd rounder 2018
Yes she'd be behind bird...and likely playing SOME 2 just to get minutes...BUT bird has only 2 good years left...its a place you can develop...is this what Kagawa wants? Dunno...not many places plum COULD start at 1 right off to be honest...but the difference and what I pointed out is Being blocked by bird may last 2 maybe 3 seasons. Being blocked by Jefferson would be until you can leave as a FA or get traded unless you REALLY reinvent yourself.
These comments by Kagawa just show what I predicted when people were like put plum and Jefferson together...even if logic says one should be a 2 both will want to be the 1...and that causes friction...I just didn't expect to reach critical mass so soon Sims/Diggins part 2 I'm afraid
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J-Spoon
Joined: 31 Jan 2009
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| Posted: 04/20/17 6:57 am ::: |
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| I don't want to derail the thread but my gut tells me this might be both Bird and Taurasi's last season. (Bird is the only player left from the 2002 draft class and with Catching's retirement Sue is the oldest player in the league by a couple of years, there is no one from 2003 left, Taurasi, Beard, Whalen and Brunson are the last of 2004, with T. Wright sitting out no one from 2005 is left unless Hodges makes it onto SA, Augustus, Pondexter, Currie and Dupree are the last ones standing from 2006 they are all in the twilights of their careers, and for context Bird is four years older than that draft class). Are either Bird or DT under contract after this season? Plum may only be backing up Bird for one season.
Last edited by J-Spoon on 04/20/17 7:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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PUmatty
Joined: 10 Nov 2004
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| Posted: 04/20/17 7:15 am ::: |
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| With Plum signed, SAS don't have to worry about her re-entering the draft. I don't believe that a rookie will sit out a season, especially not a No. 1 lower-level No. 1 pick like Plum. That means SAS should only make a deal if it is a good one for them. They are a team full of spare parts - you cannot trade one of your few real assets for more spare parts.
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UofDel_Alum
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Randy
Joined: 08 Oct 2011
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| Posted: 04/20/17 7:38 am ::: |
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| Either Plum's agent was talking with Megdal after a few too many, or Plum just got her nose out of joint from learning that she was trade bait. Might have come as shock to a college kid. I suspect that once she gets into town, Riley will take her aside and smooth things over and all will soon be forgotten. As for the fit issue - you have three guards splitting 80 minutes a game, or almost 27 for each one. Doesn't seem like a huge problem, esp. since Plum can probably play the 1 or 2.
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pilight
Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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| Posted: 04/20/17 7:40 am ::: |
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| PUmatty wrote: |
| With Plum signed, SAS don't have to worry about her re-entering the draft. I don't believe that a rookie will sit out a season, especially not a No. 1 lower-level No. 1 pick like Plum. That means SAS should only make a deal if it is a good one for them. They are a team full of spare parts - you cannot trade one of your few real assets for more spare parts. |
A rookie might sit out someday, but it won't be because the team who picked her tried to trade the pick. It would probably be something like the John Elway situation, where the team is so badly managed the player fears it would harm their career to play there.
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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Shades
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| Posted: 04/20/17 8:08 am ::: |
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| Happycappie25 wrote: |
I'd bite at Plum straight for Tok, KML 2nd rounder 2018
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Why would SAN turn down the rumored #6 pick in 2017 plus WAS's first rounder in 2018 in favor of this? And that's before you even factor in that foreign players tend to be fussy about where they get traded.
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 04/20/17 8:49 am ::: |
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| Randy wrote: |
| Either Plum's agent was talking with Megdal after a few too many |
Or maybe the quotes were supposed to be off the record, and Megdal couldn't resist and he's already burning bridges with Wasserman. That's probably not a bridge you want to be burning.
| Randy wrote: |
| or Plum just got her nose out of joint from learning that she was trade bait. Might have come as shock to a college kid. |
Plum seems pretty unassuming. Doubt all the attention she's been getting has been going to her head. That wonky draft ceremony should have helped keep her humble. It's all agent talking here looking out for the "best interest" of her client as determined by herself. I'm definitely giving Plum the benefit of a doubt here.
| Randy wrote: |
| I suspect that once she gets into town, Riley will take her aside and smooth things over and all will soon be forgotten. |
Me too.... this all could be typical agent drama that we usually don't see because nobody but Megdal would print it. WNBA news is usually PC fluff.
| Randy wrote: |
| As for the fit issue - you have three guards splitting 80 minutes a game, or almost 27 for each one. Doesn't seem like a huge problem, esp. since Plum can probably play the 1 or 2. |
She "fits" better at SAN than CHI. She's a "natural" 2 but worked hard to be an effective 1 for only her senior year (check out the stats). Plum's probably too short to be an elite SG, so maybe that's what Colas is worried about. Part of me thinks Colas wanted Plum in a bigger market and all position drama was just an excuse to demand a trade.
With SAN having an all new front office, I suppose Colas figured it would be easy to bully them into getting what she wanted. Kudos to Riley for standing her ground, if that was the case.
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Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
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ClayK
Joined: 11 Oct 2005
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| Posted: 04/20/17 9:19 am ::: |
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The comments from Lindsay Colas are unusual because they don't really improve Plum's negotiating position with San Antonio (she's locked into a salary) and hurt her opportunities for endorsements in Texas.
I can't see the advantage gained from saying all this publicly, even in terms of setting the stage for overseas negotiations if Plum doesn't start for San Antonio. Colas has set up a struggle between Plum and her new coach, Vickie Johnson, and now if Johnson does start Plum, it looks like the new coach caved in to outside pressure.
And if the quotes are accurate, and there's no reason to believe they're not, then Ruth Riley essentially picked a player her coach didn't want, which is not a good way to start a professional relationship.
Finally, all these quotes from Colas lower the trade market value for Plum because they make San Antonio's bargaining position weaker.
Curiouser and curiouser ...
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 04/20/17 9:35 am ::: |
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| ClayK wrote: |
| And if the quotes are accurate, and there's no reason to believe they're not, then Ruth Riley essentially picked a player her coach didn't want, which is not a good way to start a professional relationship. |
But is something a GM sometimes has to do if they believe they're right. Pick the best player, then tell your coach to suck it up and do her damn job. Frankly, if this was a squad better positioned to win right now, Vickie Johnson probably wouldn't have gotten it. So the group isn't going to be perfect. Make the best of it and maximise the talent you're presented with. |
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Shades
Joined: 10 Jul 2006
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| Posted: 04/20/17 10:12 am ::: |
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| Quote: |
| “San Antonio is saying they took her and plan to play all three together,” Colas told The Summitt. “You have established assets who have played well, so why are you taking the number one pick to play out of position? In what sport does that happen? It’s entirely unprecedented." |
The following is a true story or something unprecedented, you decide.
Once upon a time, the Lynx had a #1 pick named Augustus who was 6' tall playing the SF position since 2008. Augustus had gotten a little out of shape, just going through the motions year after year of losing when suddenly in 2011, the Lynx drafted another 6' player named Maya who was perfect to play SF. Most of the big bad wolves of the basement scorned at the thought of Maya playing with Augustus. "They play the same position... it will never work out... you're wasting your #1 pick.... you're better off with Cambage, a position of need!" chortled the big bad wolves. But the Lynx would not be intimated or deterred. Augustus quickly lost 20 pounds and moved to the SG position, and the Lynx lived happily ever after.
The interesting thing is Colas is also Maya's agent. So I'm curious with the Lynx being a small market and unsuccessful team adding a player with an already established #1 pick at the same position, I wonder if that caused Colas to question the Lynx in the same way?
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Last edited by Shades on 04/20/17 12:08 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 04/20/17 10:21 am ::: |
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I get a chuckle at everyone generously trying to dump Mosqueda-Lewis on San Antonio as part of a trade.
Her trade value is approximately zero. Nobody (except maybe Connecticut) is giving up anything for her.
Frankly I don't see anything Seattle would likely part with that San Antonio would take for Plum.
And why would SA want Alexis Peterson? Trade a short rookie shooting guard for a less capable short rookie shooting guard? How would that help SA''s situation? They'd have the same problem they have now.
San Antonio is not about to trade the #1 pick for a hodgepodge of journeymen.
Like it or not, it makes little sense for SA to have both Jefferson and Plum. If they want to keep Plum, they should maximize the benefit by trading Jefferson. She has real value and they could bolster their front line where they really need the help.
Then they could play Plum, McBride and Coffey at the 1,2,3 and actually have quality players playing where they belong, and build something real for the future. They have several potential 5s on the roster from which to choose and should be able to get a quality 4 in the Jefferson trade.
They're trying to build a team. Playing Jefferson, Plum and McBride together is not the way to do it. That's just treading water. Unless their goal is to tank so they can pick Wilson next year.
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Richyyy
Joined: 17 Nov 2005
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| Posted: 04/20/17 10:33 am ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Then they could play Plum, McBride and Coffey at the 1,2,3 and actually have quality players playing where they belong, and build something real for the future. They have several potential 5s on the roster from which to choose and should be able to get a quality 4 in the Jefferson trade. |
I don't agree with your premise, but if we accept it then who? Which quality 4 are they getting in this deal? There are only 11 teams to trade with, and they're not going to want someone too old given how young their existing core is. Trades always get more difficult in this league when you get down to specifics because the pool is so small. |
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 04/20/17 10:38 am ::: |
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| Richyyy wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Then they could play Plum, McBride and Coffey at the 1,2,3 and actually have quality players playing where they belong, and build something real for the future. They have several potential 5s on the roster from which to choose and should be able to get a quality 4 in the Jefferson trade. |
I don't agree with your premise, but if we accept it then who? Which quality 4 are they getting in this deal? There are only 11 teams to trade with, and they're not going to want someone too old given how young their existing core is. Trades always get more difficult in this league when you get down to specifics because the pool is so small. |
I proposed Jonquel Jones above, but you're welcome to make other suggestions.
BTW, in what respect do you disagree with my premise? As it now stands they have made no improvement at all at their weakest positions, and would be playing 5'4", 5'8" (probably more like 5'6") and 5'11" together. They'd better score a LOT of points because they're certainly not stopping anybody.
I don't see how that improves their team, and I don't see that working two or five years from now any better than it will work this year. I'm trying to advance the ball, as I expect Ruth Riley is trying to do. And sometimes in order to get better you have to give up a player you might prefer to keep. But they need help on the front line more than they need another guard, so they may need to sacrifice one of these guards to accomplish that. They need to decide which they want to keep and which has more trade value. I think Jefferson has more trade value. If I truly believe Plum can play pg in the WNBA, I'd keep her and trade Jefferson.
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