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Shades



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PostPosted: 04/26/17 6:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

#Occasionalwnbafan wrote:
Will be interesting to see her play at the next level, but right now she seems more like a undersized 4, she can guard wings but not sure you would want her guarding some of the bigger 4's she'll face in the wnba.


She's not a post player in the WNBA. That's a pretty easy prediction.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 04/26/17 7:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I believe Gabby is closer to 6'0 than 5'11....but to me,Gabby's height is irrelevant.She already has a better physique,more speed,and better jumping ability than just about every wing in the league.Gabby just needs to develop her indivudual skills.


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PostPosted: 04/26/17 9:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
I believe Gabby is closer to 6'0 than 5'11....but to me,Gabby's height is irrelevant.She already has a better physique,more speed,and better jumping ability than just about every wing in the league.Gabby just needs to develop her indivudual skills.


This....all of what ahkator lacks. Shes simply not an elite athlete vs a player like Gabby



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 04/26/17 11:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Looking at the draftsite mock, it looks more like wishful thinking that all those kids would come out. Poor Geno would pull out his hair if all his Jrs abandon ship. And I will be surprised if K. Jensen is a first round pick. She gets gaudy numbers in college but if you watch her play, I just don't see it translate. (and I hate to be the bearer of bad news but she's not 6'4") Also I finally see one actually listed shorter than she actually is - Mercedes Russel at 6'0" Laughing



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#Occasionalwnbafan



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PostPosted: 04/27/17 2:13 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Richyyy wrote:
Isn't Williams basically just a 3 in the pros? Maybe a little undersized if that 5'11" is accurate, but not scarily so. It'd be good for her future if she could work on her outside shot, but essentially she's a wing at the next level.


What is the success rate for post players transitioning from power forwards to small forward once they get in to the WNBA? Other then say Maya Moore, I can't really think of one. Right now what makes Williams so dynamic is her leaping, rebounding, and Passing abilities, and her motor. In all the Uconn games I've seen Williams is normally playing the 4 or 5
zune69



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PostPosted: 04/27/17 5:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
I believe Gabby is closer to 6'0 than 5'11....but to me,Gabby's height is irrelevant.She already has a better physique,more speed,and better jumping ability than just about every wing in the league.Gabby just needs to develop her indivudual skills.


This....all of what ahkator lacks. Shes simply not an elite athlete vs a player like Gabby


Bad comparison.Ahkator is a pf,Gabby is a wing.You would expect a wing player to be more athletic than a pf.Ahkator has more athletic ability than at least half of the wnba starting PF's

#Occasionalwnbafan wrote:

What is the success rate for post players transitioning from power forwards to small forward once they get in to the WNBA? Other then say Maya Moore, I can't really think of one. Right now what makes Williams so dynamic is her leaping, rebounding, and Passing abilities, and her motor. In all the Uconn games I've seen Williams is normally playing the 4 or 5


Gabby's not your typical post up,back to the basket player.So her transition from 4/5 at uconn to the 3 in the pro's won't be as uncomfortable as it would be for a traditional post player.Gabby has all of the physical/athletic tools you'd want a wing player to have,plus she's a great defender.You could make the case that Gabby is already a better defender than every starting SF in the league with maybe the exception of Maya


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PostPosted: 04/27/17 8:05 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
I believe Gabby is closer to 6'0 than 5'11....but to me,Gabby's height is irrelevant.She already has a better physique,more speed,and better jumping ability than just about every wing in the league.Gabby just needs to develop her indivudual skills.


This....all of what ahkator lacks. Shes simply not an elite athlete vs a player like Gabby


Bad comparison.Ahkator is a pf,Gabby is a wing.You would expect a wing player to be more athletic than a pf.Ahkator has more athletic ability than at least half of the wnba starting PF's

#Occasionalwnbafan wrote:

What is the success rate for post players transitioning from power forwards to small forward once they get in to the WNBA? Other then say Maya Moore, I can't really think of one. Right now what makes Williams so dynamic is her leaping, rebounding, and Passing abilities, and her motor. In all the Uconn games I've seen Williams is normally playing the 4 or 5


Gabby's not your typical post up,back to the basket player.So her transition from 4/5 at uconn to the 3 in the pro's won't be as uncomfortable as it would be for a traditional post player.Gabby has all of the physical/athletic tools you'd want a wing player to have,plus she's a great defender.[b]You could make the case that Gabby is already a better defender than every starting SF in the league with maybe the exception of Maya[/b]



I think Lori Ann , Alysha Clark , Alyssa Thomas , DeWanna Bonner , Tamera Young would disagree



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zune69



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PostPosted: 04/27/17 8:29 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:

I think Lori Ann , Alysha Clark , Alyssa Thomas , DeWanna Bonner , Tamera Young would disagree


And they'd all be wrong.


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PostPosted: 04/27/17 8:34 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:

I think Lori Ann , Alysha Clark , Alyssa Thomas , DeWanna Bonner , Tamera Young would disagree


And they'd all be wrong.


You really think Gabby is already a better defender then all those players i just listed ? She may have an argument but no way. Lets wait til shes defending WNBA players before we make that judgement. Shes not a better defender than Angel but shes a damn good defender in college i will agree on that for gabby .



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zune69



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PostPosted: 04/27/17 10:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:

I think Lori Ann , Alysha Clark , Alyssa Thomas , DeWanna Bonner , Tamera Young would disagree


And they'd all be wrong.


You really think Gabby is already a better defender then all those players i just listed ? She may have an argument but no way. Lets wait til shes defending WNBA players before we make that judgement. Shes not a better defender than Angel but shes a damn good defender in college i will agree on that for gabby .



Angel is a gambler on defense.She'll get 2-4 steals per game,but also give up just as many baskets

A.Clark is undersized,and has trouble guarding the elite wings(Bonner,Moore,MCcoughtry)

Thomas isn't known for being an elite defender.She not fast/quick enough to consistently guard wings.

Bonner is the best wing defender when she wants to be.But has a tendency to become preoccupied with offense/shooting the basketball.Bonner's defense took a step back last season.And with her being pregnant,she might not return to form until the 2019 season.

Young's one of the better defenders in the league,but is very cocky and arrogant to the point where she'll have defensive lapses

I believe Gabby is a better defender than all five players.She rarely if ever has defensive lapses,nor gambles to the point where she gives up cheap baskets.Bonner/Angel are no question better overall players.But Gabby is the better,more disciplined defender imo




Last edited by zune69 on 04/27/17 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total
myrtle



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PostPosted: 04/27/17 11:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Gabby will be an outstanding pro...but do think she needs to work on extending her range. She has amazing athleticism and amazing instincts, but yeah, we will have to see how her defense translates since most of the defense we've seen from her so far is within 15 feet of the basket. And I enjoyed Zune's description of the wings defensively - fairly accurate I think though perhaps a bit harsh in some cases. Just goes to show that improvement is always possible.



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WNBA 09



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PostPosted: 04/27/17 12:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:

I believe Gabby is a better defender than all five players.She rarely if ever has defensive lapses,nor gambles to the point where she gives up cheap baskets.Bonner/Angel are no question better overall players.But Gabby is the better,more disciplined defender imo


McCowan Burned gabby at least 2 to 3 seperate times when they played in the F4 when gabby would go for her famous bait and sit behind the post and steal it on a wrap around when the entry comes in . Do i blame her ? NO because she probably knew she could not defend mccowan playing behind but to say she doesnt gamble is quite a stretch .



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 04/27/17 12:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Quote:

I believe Gabby is a better defender than all five players.She rarely if ever has defensive lapses,nor gambles to the point where she gives up cheap baskets.Bonner/Angel are no question better overall players.But Gabby is the better,more disciplined defender imo


McCowan Burned gabby at least 2 to 3 seperate times when they played in the F4 when gabby would go for her famous bait and sit behind the post and steal it on a wrap around when the entry comes in . Do i blame her ? NO because she probably knew she could not defend mccowan playing behind but to say she doesnt gamble is quite a stretch .


um, yeah, it's only smart to gamble when a player is 8" taller than you. I wouldn't call that a good example.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 04/27/17 12:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
Quote:

I believe Gabby is a better defender than all five players.She rarely if ever has defensive lapses,nor gambles to the point where she gives up cheap baskets.Bonner/Angel are no question better overall players.But Gabby is the better,more disciplined defender imo


McCowan Burned gabby at least 2 to 3 seperate times when they played in the F4 when gabby would go for her famous bait and sit behind the post and steal it on a wrap around when the entry comes in . Do i blame her ? NO because she probably knew she could not defend mccowan playing behind but to say she doesnt gamble is quite a stretch .


We are comparing defense against wing players,not 6'7 post players.And notice,I said rarely.So it may happen against a bigger post player(McCowen).




Last edited by zune69 on 04/27/17 12:30 pm; edited 2 times in total
ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 04/27/17 12:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
I think Gabby will be an outstanding pro...but do think she needs to work on extending her range. She has amazing athleticism and amazing instincts, but yeah, we will have to see how her defense translates since most of the defense we've seen from her so far is within 15 feet of the basket. And I enjoyed Zune's description of the wings defensively - fairly accurate I think though perhaps a bit harsh in some cases. Just goes to show that improvement is always possible.


I've said it before, but it's a common occurrence in all sports that outstanding players at one level often struggle or simply have no position to play at the next because of size or speed. Happens from HS to college, happens from college to pros, happens in football, basketball, baseball, hockey, everything.

I think both Williams and Collier may face that reality. They may make it, but in both cases their skill sets and size don't mesh. They can play at a position for which they are undersized in college, but the size problem will be exacerbated at the next level where the players are bigger and where they don't have a huge talent advantage.

Both are outstanding college players. Both have limitations beyond their own control that affect their pro prospects. Can they add additional skills in the next year to play a different position in the pros, or do they have to play the same position while undersized?


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PostPosted: 04/27/17 12:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

@ myrtle....you're right.I was too harsh on Clark.Using the word abused was too much.I edited my post.


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PostPosted: 04/27/17 12:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
@ myrtle....you're right.I was too harsh on Clark.Using the word abused was too much.I edited my post.


That was actually one of the points that made me bite my tongue Laughing That playoff game was just ______________



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Randy



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PostPosted: 04/27/17 1:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA 09 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
@ myrtle....you're right.I was too harsh on Clark.Using the word abused was too much.I edited my post.


That was actually one of the points that made me bite my tongue Laughing That playoff game was just ______________



Angel averaged 24 ppg against the Storm in the regular season. It wasn't limited to just a single game.


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PostPosted: 04/27/17 1:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Randy wrote:
WNBA 09 wrote:
zune69 wrote:
@ myrtle....you're right.I was too harsh on Clark.Using the word abused was too much.I edited my post.


That was actually one of the points that made me bite my tongue Laughing That playoff game was just ______________



Angel averaged 24 ppg against the Storm in the regular season. It wasn't limited to just a single game.


The playoff game is the one that hurt the most in which she did the most damage.



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PostPosted: 04/27/17 1:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
I think Gabby will be an outstanding pro...but do think she needs to work on extending her range.


This is my biggest concern with her, as well. In 3 years at UConn, she is 1-7 from 3 (1-6 this past season). Interested to see how that develops this upcoming season.


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PostPosted: 04/27/17 6:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

lynxmania wrote:
myrtle wrote:
I think Gabby will be an outstanding pro...but do think she needs to work on extending her range.


This is my biggest concern with her, as well. In 3 years at UConn, she is 1-7 from 3 (1-6 this past season). Interested to see how that develops this upcoming season.


Gabby has below average shooting touch from all distances other than post-move layups, which she can finish at an above average rate due to her ambidextrous athleticism. For example, she shot a mediocre 72% on FT's this past season, which, however, was a big improvment from the 46% in her freshman season.

Unless the 5-11 Gabby can get a very high percentage of paint layups in the pros as she has been able to do in college, I don't see her college performance so far as presaging a high scorer in the W.

I'm not sure Gabby's an elite defender. She certainly has above average reflexes and speed, but most of the "great defense" that people recall I suspect are retinal memories of her breakaways after gambling steals.

I'm surprised to hear Maya referred to as an elite defender, but I don't see the Lynx much so I'll defer to others.

What Gabby will know is team defense. In my opinion, Geno Auriemma teaches better team defense than any other coach I've seen in college or pro. However, do W teams even play team defense? Again, I'll defer, though I do remember what's-his-name's "white line".
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PostPosted: 04/27/17 6:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:

I'm surprised to hear Maya referred to as an elite defender, but I don't see the Lynx much so I'll defer to others.


I never called Maya an elite defender.....Truth is,there are no great SF defenders.Moore,Bonner,Young and McCoughtry are all very good at best.




Last edited by zune69 on 04/27/17 6:33 pm; edited 3 times in total
Richyyy



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PostPosted: 04/27/17 6:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
lynxmania wrote:
myrtle wrote:
I think Gabby will be an outstanding pro...but do think she needs to work on extending her range.


This is my biggest concern with her, as well. In 3 years at UConn, she is 1-7 from 3 (1-6 this past season). Interested to see how that develops this upcoming season.


Gabby has below average shooting touch from all distances other than post-move layups, which she can finish at an above average rate due to her ambidextrous athleticism. For example, she shot a mediocre 72% on FT's this past season, which, however, was a big improvment from the 46% in her freshman season.

Unless the 5-11 Gabby can get a very high percentage of paint layups in the pros as she has been able to do in college, I don't see her college performance so far as presaging a high scorer in the W.

I'm not sure Gabby's an elite defender. She certainly has above average reflexes and speed, but most of the "great defense" that people recall I suspect are retinal memories of her breakaways after gambling steals.

I'm surprised to hear Maya referred to as an elite defender, but I don't see the Lynx much so I'll defer to others.

What Gabby will know is team defense. In my opinion, Geno Auriemma teaches better team defense than any other coach I've seen in college or pro. However, do W teams even play team defense? Again, I'll defer, though I do remember what's-his-name's "white line".

Even given all that, even if she can't improve her shot, isn't she basically Alyssa Thomas?



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PostPosted: 04/27/17 7:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

lynxmania wrote:
myrtle wrote:
I think Gabby will be an outstanding pro...but do think she needs to work on extending her range.


This is my biggest concern with her, as well. In 3 years at UConn, she is 1-7 from 3 (1-6 this past season). Interested to see how that develops this upcoming season.


With most teams starting stretch fours, it possible Gabby could have some success posting her defenders up if she does transition to the wing in the pros.
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PostPosted: 04/27/17 8:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

#Occasionalwnbafan wrote:
lynxmania wrote:
myrtle wrote:
I think Gabby will be an outstanding pro...but do think she needs to work on extending her range.


This is my biggest concern with her, as well. In 3 years at UConn, she is 1-7 from 3 (1-6 this past season). Interested to see how that develops this upcoming season.


With most teams starting stretch fours, it possible Gabby could have some success posting her defenders up if she does transition to the wing in the pros.


Her signature move at UConn has been an explosive drive from the high post, which she can do righty or lefty and which she can finish with an underhand layup, an overhand layup, a sort of jump hook layup, or occasionally a very short stop & pop shot.

If her high post defender is about her size, Gabby can elevate her shooting hand over the hands of the defender. If the defender is bigger than her but slow, Gabby can explode by her to the rim.

A taller defender with quick mobility should give Gabby trouble, as would a help defender who can anticipate her high post move. So far, Gabby seems able to out-anticipate and out-execute defender(s) much of the time. Of course, UConn is very adept at drawing potential help defenders away from Gabby's explosion lanes.

So, her ability to get layup shots will indeed probably depend on the quality of her individual defenders in the WNBA and the help defenders.

If Gabby can develop a better outside shot, and especially if she can develop a 3pt shot, she would be a much more dangerous offensive player. That, however, is expecting a lot at this late stage of of her career. Most players with very good shooting touches have developed that skill early in high school.

Gabby has greater hops, speed, explosiveness and general athleticism than Alyssa Thomas, in my opinion. As to shooting touch, I haven't seen Thomas lately.
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