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2017 Attrition, Transfer, and Injury Report
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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 04/10/17 3:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Is it only a coincidence that a significant number of these transfers seem to have very active visible stage parents acting publicly​ as their "agents"?


Since they're not allowed real agents, they have to make do.



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Phil



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PostPosted: 04/10/17 3:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ND had eleven on roster, three seniors and two transfers means six returning. Two incoming in top 100, anyone else incoming?


Durantula



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PostPosted: 04/10/17 3:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Phil wrote:
ND had eleven on roster, three seniors and two transfers means six returning. Two incoming in top 100, anyone else incoming?


Did your count of 11 include the Stanford transfer? If not, that's one more. Also ND lists Nelson as a SR but she has a year remaining, so basically really a redshirt junior. She is coming back, so there's another potential addition unless you had already counted her.


Phil



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PostPosted: 04/10/17 4:02 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Durantula wrote:
Phil wrote:
ND had eleven on roster, three seniors and two transfers means six returning. Two incoming in top 100, anyone else incoming?


Did your count of 11 include the Stanford transfer? If not, that's one more. Also ND lists Nelson as a SR but she has a year remaining, so basically really a redshirt junior. She is coming back, so there's another potential addition unless you had already counted her.


Good point, I had forgotten about Lili, and I did not know Nelson had another year.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 04/10/17 4:17 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Ali Patberg has two years in a row won the Rockne Student-Athlete Award for Women's Basketball and is a finance major in the business school with a 3.62 GPA. ND's Mendoza School of Business is Business Week's number two ranked undergraduate business school in the country.

I can understand her desire to transfer. She has been hampered by injuries, has not been able to assume the role that Muffet had envisioned for her, and sees Lili Thompson coming in next year and Jenna Brown committed for 2018.

But this is one of those cases where I really hope an excellent student getting an excellent education and degree, working hard and performing well, doesn't squander that lifetime opportunity.

I hope she chooses a top notch school.


tfan



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PostPosted: 04/10/17 4:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ClayK wrote:
>Part of the problem is the assumption that it was a "bad situation" that caused the transfer. Some of the ridicule is the result of it being players in what are, from all appearances, in perfectly fine situations, making choices based on what appear to be delusions of grandeur, inflated egos, or simply "grass is always greener" naivete.

But what difference does it make if it's a "good situation"? Shouldn't people be able to do what they think is best for them? Maybe a "good situation" for someone, or from what we see, isn't as good a situation for someone else.

And what is wrong with "delusions of grandeur, inflated egos, or simply "grass is always greener" naivete"? If people have those traits, does that mean they shouldn't be able to transfer? Should only people with a solid grasp of reality, an under-control ego and unconcerned with green grass be allowed to transfer?

And if so, who decides which player/family falls into which group?


Well said. I think a lot of the critical attitude that fans have towards transfers is due to the NCAA implicitly saying that transferring is bad since they punish the players with a year of inactivity. I think we'd have a lot less criticism if the NCAA took away their rule about sitting out a year.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 04/10/17 5:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
ClayK wrote:
>Part of the problem is the assumption that it was a "bad situation" that caused the transfer. Some of the ridicule is the result of it being players in what are, from all appearances, in perfectly fine situations, making choices based on what appear to be delusions of grandeur, inflated egos, or simply "grass is always greener" naivete.

But what difference does it make if it's a "good situation"? Shouldn't people be able to do what they think is best for them? Maybe a "good situation" for someone, or from what we see, isn't as good a situation for someone else.

And what is wrong with "delusions of grandeur, inflated egos, or simply "grass is always greener" naivete"? If people have those traits, does that mean they shouldn't be able to transfer? Should only people with a solid grasp of reality, an under-control ego and unconcerned with green grass be allowed to transfer?

And if so, who decides which player/family falls into which group?


Well said. I think a lot of the critical attitude that fans have towards transfers is due to the NCAA implicitly saying that transferring is bad since they punish the players with a year of inactivity. I think we'd have a lot less criticism if the NCAA took away their rule about sitting out a year.


Who said they "shouldn't be able to transfer"? Oh that's right. Nobody.

But why are you trying to tell people that they shouldn't be able to criticize or even ridicule the conduct?

Transfers can have adverse impacts on other people. These actions are not without consequences. Stop pretending that the only person affected is the player herself.

You ask "Shouldn't people be able to do what they think is best for them?" Sounds like the very definition of selfish, self-centered, self-absorbed behavior. Screw everybody else I might be hurting. Screw everyone relying on me. Forget everything I've been telling people all along. It's all about me and what I want. You seem to celebrate that attitude.

Damn straight people have a right to criticize it. And a year sitting out is a perfectly rationale buffer against total chaos. You sign up and take a free $60,000/yr education, that's the cost of bailing out on people who are relying on you.


mzonefan



Joined: 15 Oct 2005
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PostPosted: 04/10/17 5:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Oft-injured Michigan player, Emoni Jackson, transfers within the county. She was moved from player to student assistant coach this year when it appeared her knee would never heal. She stopped sitting on the bench after the fall semester if I remember correctly.

Emoni played in 10 games in 14-15, her freshman year.

Chris Hansen:

BREAKING

@EMUWBB picks up Michigan transfer Emoni Jackson 6-1 F from Long Beach Poly @CalSparksClub


mzonefan



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PostPosted: 04/10/17 5:26 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bret McCormick:

Jodi Ramil 6-2 C has transferred from Georgetown to HC Linda Cimino Binghamton University. Originally from Binghamton NY.


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 04/10/17 6:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
tfan wrote:
ClayK wrote:
>Part of the problem is the assumption that it was a "bad situation" that caused the transfer. Some of the ridicule is the result of it being players in what are, from all appearances, in perfectly fine situations, making choices based on what appear to be delusions of grandeur, inflated egos, or simply "grass is always greener" naivete.

But what difference does it make if it's a "good situation"? Shouldn't people be able to do what they think is best for them? Maybe a "good situation" for someone, or from what we see, isn't as good a situation for someone else.

And what is wrong with "delusions of grandeur, inflated egos, or simply "grass is always greener" naivete"? If people have those traits, does that mean they shouldn't be able to transfer? Should only people with a solid grasp of reality, an under-control ego and unconcerned with green grass be allowed to transfer?

And if so, who decides which player/family falls into which group?


Well said. I think a lot of the critical attitude that fans have towards transfers is due to the NCAA implicitly saying that transferring is bad since they punish the players with a year of inactivity. I think we'd have a lot less criticism if the NCAA took away their rule about sitting out a year.


Who said they "shouldn't be able to transfer"? Oh that's right. Nobody.


But if somebody does something, and others bitch about it, it's implicit that they didn't think they should do it. So "shouldn't ever transfer" seems to work.


Quote:

But why are you trying to tell people that they shouldn't be able to criticize or even ridicule the conduct?


Why are you trying to tell me that I shouldn't be able to criticize or even ridicule your criticism and ridicule? Your attitude towards criticism is extremely self-centered and one-sided.

Quote:

Transfers can have adverse impacts on other people. These actions are not without consequences. Stop pretending that the only person affected is the player herself.


I didn't make any statements about how many people were affected, like some coach that you or others have deified. Stop pretending that there are any important consequences from a student-athlete transferring.

Quote:

You ask "Shouldn't people be able to do what they think is best for them?" Sounds like the very definition of selfish, self-centered, self-absorbed behavior. Screw everybody else I might be hurting. Screw everyone relying on me. Forget everything I've been telling people all along. It's all about me and what I want. You seem to celebrate that attitude.


I have a lot more respect for a student-athlete that does what they want, versus doing what fans, the coach, or their teammates want. It is their life, not yours. I want them attending the school they prefer, not making you and other fans happy.

Quote:

Damn straight people have a right to criticize it. And a year sitting out is a perfectly rationale buffer against total chaos. You sign up and take a free $60,000/yr education, that's the cost of bailing out on people who are relying on you.


The coach can jettison players at any time. The university can jettison the coach at any time. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. "Total chaos" is gross hyperbole to describe players being able to transfer without penalty. College ball starts with the situation that all players are there for only a maximum of four years. There is already massive change baked into the system.


myrtle



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PostPosted: 04/10/17 7:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think sitting out a year is a reasonable 'compensation' for flipping schools. I do think that there probably should be more extenuating circumstances. For instance if a coach leaves who recruited you, it should be easier for you to transfer as well. One thing about the education: if you transfer, you usually get an extra year of that free education as well. It's not like you really suffer by having to sit out a year. In fact it might be a smart thing to do for those kids who aren't going pro just to get in a year of graduate school paid for...And I think if it's too easy to transfer then it sets the stage for increased corruption in what is offered as incentives.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 04/10/17 7:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:


"Total chaos" is gross hyperbole to describe players being able to transfer without penalty. College ball starts with the situation that all players are there for only a maximum of four years. There is already massive change baked into the system.


I think in some cases it really is 'total chaos'. For instance when you have a junior PG and a Freshman PG who you think will be taking over, or already has taken over (see Destiny Slocum) so you don't recruit a PG for the next year, and then that Freshman PG leaves, you definitely are left in the lurch. Or say you have only 3 posts and one is out injured, and no posts coming in and one of the 2 remaining posts leaves, it definitely leaves that team scrambling. Yeah, the coaches only have the kids for 4 years but most of them have a plan in place to try to bring in kids at specific positions at specific intervals. You have to know that there will be some injuries and some kids that simply will never be more than bench sitters or live up to expectations but will still be taking that scholarship. That creates a tighter weave in what you can do. When you lose a key piece, or more than one, to transfer, it can certainly create what I would call chaos.



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Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 04/10/17 8:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
So Scott Boley has tweeted his own phone number with" for information ( on Erin) contact" him at ________.

Is it only a coincidence that a significant number of these transfers seem to have very active visible stage parents acting publicly​ as their "agents"?


I am more weirded out by the fact that this dude is perfectly okay with putting his phone number on the Internet where anyone can see it, something we were taught never to do as kids.



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myrtle



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PostPosted: 04/10/17 8:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
So Scott Boley has tweeted his own phone number with" for information ( on Erin) contact" him at ________.

Is it only a coincidence that a significant number of these transfers seem to have very active visible stage parents acting publicly​ as their "agents"?


I am more weirded out by the fact that this dude is perfectly okay with putting his phone number on the Internet where anyone can see it, something we were taught never to do as kids.


Maybe he has a special phone only for this process. That would seem likely. Still he's apt to get a lot of weird calls on it.



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pilight



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PostPosted: 04/10/17 9:22 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
You sign up and take a free $60,000/yr education


It's not free, they have to work for it.



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elsie



Joined: 08 Apr 2016
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PostPosted: 04/10/17 9:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

" Well said. I think a lot of the critical attitude that fans have towards transfers is due to the NCAA implicitly saying that transferring is bad since they punish the players with a year of inactivity. I think we'd have a lot less criticism if the NCAA took away their rule about sitting out a year."

there has to be some restrictions otherwise the big schools would have a huge advantage.....money and wealth talks....

hey, you coach up a player for 3 yrs and pay for their college tuition plus room and board and extra money for incidentals and then they decide once they're pretty good that they want to run away to UConn?...

however, sometimes the sitting out is draconian...we had a player who left her program in the fall and wasn't allowed to play for us for 1 and 1/2 yrs....now that's ridiculous...


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
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PostPosted: 04/10/17 10:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
So Scott Boley has tweeted his own phone number with" for information ( on Erin) contact" him at ________.

Is it only a coincidence that a significant number of these transfers seem to have very active visible stage parents acting publicly​ as their "agents"?


I am more weirded out by the fact that this dude is perfectly okay with putting his phone number on the Internet where anyone can see it, something we were taught never to do as kids.


Who the hell had Internet access as "kids"?? Shocked I was taught to not put my number on a bathroom wall. Laughing Laughing

myrtle wrote:
When you lose a key piece, or more than one, to transfer, it can certainly create what I would call chaos.


"Chaos" is what sees after a terrorist attack on innocents. Basketball is still a game, a game that is meant to be "Played". While I comprehend the disruption to a venerated program that transfers induce, I don't think it merits the general insulting of others and their diverging opinions here. (not YOU, Myrtle.... Smile )



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tfan



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PostPosted: 04/10/17 11:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

elsie wrote:
" Well said. I think a lot of the critical attitude that fans have towards transfers is due to the NCAA implicitly saying that transferring is bad since they punish the players with a year of inactivity. I think we'd have a lot less criticism if the NCAA took away their rule about sitting out a year."

there has to be some restrictions otherwise the big schools would have a huge advantage.....money and wealth talks....


Don't they currently have a huge advantage?


NoDakSt



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PostPosted: 04/11/17 12:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Maybe Boley ends up at Stanford. Tat 4 Tit.



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tfan



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PostPosted: 04/11/17 1:44 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

myrtle wrote:
I think sitting out a year is a reasonable 'compensation' for flipping schools. I do think that there probably should be more extenuating circumstances. For instance if a coach leaves who recruited you, it should be easier for you to transfer as well. One thing about the education: if you transfer, you usually get an extra year of that free education as well. It's not like you really suffer by having to sit out a year. In fact it might be a smart thing to do for those kids who aren't going pro just to get in a year of graduate school paid for...And I think if it's too easy to transfer then it sets the stage for increased corruption in what is offered as incentives.


Yeah, that's a good point that the extra year of scholarship (assuming that is always the case) does reward transferring in one sense.

One way to get rid of the "you owe us 4 years because we put some time and money into you" issue, is to get rid of athletic scholarships.




Last edited by tfan on 04/11/17 2:02 am; edited 1 time in total
tfan



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PostPosted: 04/11/17 1:58 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Boley was a 2016 McDonald’s All-American and the 2016 Gatorade National Player of the Year. She probably didn't expect to be 8th on the team in minutes per game, even as a freshman. And that was with her getting 10 starts. Not sure if she is a 3 or a 4, but neither of the starters at those positions graduated this year, so she would have likely been coming off the bench her sophomore year as well.


Ay Mate



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PostPosted: 04/11/17 5:10 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
tfan wrote:
ClayK wrote:
>Part of the problem is the assumption that it was a "bad situation" that caused the transfer. Some of the ridicule is the result of it being players in what are, from all appearances, in perfectly fine situations, making choices based on what appear to be delusions of grandeur, inflated egos, or simply "grass is always greener" naivete.

But what difference does it make if it's a "good situation"? Shouldn't people be able to do what they think is best for them? Maybe a "good situation" for someone, or from what we see, isn't as good a situation for someone else.

And what is wrong with "delusions of grandeur, inflated egos, or simply "grass is always greener" naivete"? If people have those traits, does that mean they shouldn't be able to transfer? Should only people with a solid grasp of reality, an under-control ego and unconcerned with green grass be allowed to transfer?

And if so, who decides which player/family falls into which group?


Well said. I think a lot of the critical attitude that fans have towards transfers is due to the NCAA implicitly saying that transferring is bad since they punish the players with a year of inactivity. I think we'd have a lot less criticism if the NCAA took away their rule about sitting out a year.


Who said they "shouldn't be able to transfer"? Oh that's right. Nobody.

But why are you trying to tell people that they shouldn't be able to criticize or even ridicule the conduct?

Transfers can have adverse impacts on other people. These actions are not without consequences. Stop pretending that the only person affected is the player herself.

You ask "Shouldn't people be able to do what they think is best for them?" Sounds like the very definition of selfish, self-centered, self-absorbed behavior. Screw everybody else I might be hurting. Screw everyone relying on me. Forget everything I've been telling people all along. It's all about me and what I want. You seem to celebrate that attitude.

Damn straight people have a right to criticize it. And a year sitting out is a perfectly rationale buffer against total chaos. You sign up and take a free $60,000/yr education, that's the cost of bailing out on people who are relying on you.


Agreed 110%.


ArtBest23



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PostPosted: 04/11/17 7:33 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:


One way to get rid of the "you owe us 4 years because we put some time and money into you" issue, is to get rid of athletic scholarships.


Hey, why stop there? Why not just get rid of college sports entirely? That would get rid of all the sports related issues. Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes Rolling Eyes


purduefanatic



Joined: 10 Aug 2011
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PostPosted: 04/11/17 7:52 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Could certainly use Boley at Purdue.


ClayK



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PostPosted: 04/11/17 10:21 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Talk to a scholarship athlete and ask if the education is "free."

Are students who pay tuition required to lift weights three times a week at 6 a.m.? Do students who pay tuition have to avoid certain classes that they want to take because they conflict with practice? Do students who pay tuition have to attend mandatory study halls even if their grades are good? And so on ...

Being on scholarship is having a job. Maybe it's well-paid, or maybe it's not, but it's far from "free."

And to beat my favorite dead horse, does "chaos" ensue when coaches leave or athletic directors leave or school administrators leave? They have no penalty for changing jobs, but students do. Cuonzo Martin left Cal's men's basketball program to go to Missouri, and stole two recruits from Washington and shook up Cal's recruiting class. That seems a lot more like "chaos" to me than Ali Patberg being immediately eligible at Illinois.

Finally, the Power 5 schools already have an enormous advantage, and allowing transfers to be eligible immediately would, I believe, help mid-majors because then athletes would be able to spend a year and have a much better idea of where they fit, and how important it is to them, or not, to play the game rather than sit on the bench for a Final Four team. Sitting out a year and paying your own way is a major, major deterrent to many athletes who otherwise might want to try out the WCC instead of watching from the bench in the Pac-12.



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