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canadaball



Joined: 24 May 2013
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PostPosted: 03/13/17 10:07 pm    ::: Screw The Men Reply Reply with quote

Last year, 4 male coached teams made the Final 4. This year, in studying the brackets, it ia apparent that the all women seeding committee did everything possible to avoid a repeat. There are 26 male coached teams in the 2017 field. Somehow 10 found their way into UConn's bracket. Male coached West Virginia put on a huge late season run beating, in succession, 6 seed Oklahoma, 3 seed Texas and 1 seed Baylor. This legitimate longshot for the Final 4 was lowseeded at 6, and given the UConn checkmate. Look at poor male coached Syracuse given an 8 seed. Miami got a coveted home seed at 4 despite getting buried by Syracuse in their only meeting this year, and having a worse ACC record. Just to be sure Syracuse would not repeat last year's Final 4 run, they too were given the UConn checkmate.
Looking at the other male coached legitimate teams not in UConn's bracket, some get matched with other male coached teams; thus we see 4 seed Kentucky colliding with 5 seed OSU; Louisville (4 seed) gets Jim Foster coached Chattanooga in first round, and the dangerous Tennesse in second round. Note that the Baylor and South Carolina brackets have precious few male coached top 6 seeds.[/b]


Durantula



Joined: 30 Mar 2013
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PostPosted: 03/13/17 10:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WVU's coach even said he expected a 7 seed. They got a 6. I think some of this is random, you can always find teams with a male coach but there are so many conspiracy theories.

Syracuse beating Miami is just one data point in a season full of them. Head to head is not the only thing that matters. 4 vs. 8 are not even close, these teams were not even in the same discussion for seeding so the comparison falls flat to me.

Heaven forbid some male coaches play other male coaches, do women coaches never play women coaches?


purduefanatic



Joined: 10 Aug 2011
Posts: 2095
Location: Indiana


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PostPosted: 03/13/17 10:14 pm    ::: Re: Screw The Men Reply Reply with quote

canadaball wrote:
Last year, 4 male coached teams made the Final 4. This year, in studying the brackets, it ia apparent that the all women seeding committee did everything possible to avoid a repeat. There are 26 male coached teams in the 2017 field. Somehow 10 found their way into UConn's bracket. Male coached West Virginia put on a huge late season run beating, in succession, 6 seed Oklahoma, 3 seed Texas and 1 seed Baylor. This legitimate longshot for the Final 4 was lowseeded at 6, and given the UConn checkmate. Look at poor male coached Syracuse given an 8 seed. Miami got a coveted home seed at 4 despite getting buried by Syracuse in their only meeting this year, and having a worse ACC record. Just to be sure Syracuse would not repeat last year's Final 4 run, they too were given the UConn checkmate.
Looking at the other male coached legitimate teams not in UConn's bracket, some get matched with other male coached teams; thus we see 4 seed Kentucky colliding with 5 seed OSU; Louisville (4 seed) gets Jim Foster coached Chattanooga in first round, and the dangerous Tennesse in second round. Note that the Baylor and South Carolina brackets have precious few male coached top 6 seeds.[/b]


Yeah, I noticed that as well.


canadaball



Joined: 24 May 2013
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PostPosted: 03/13/17 11:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Durantula wrote:
WVU's coach even said he expected a 7 seed. They got a 6. I think some of this is random, you can always find teams with a male coach but there are so many conspiracy theories.

Syracuse beating Miami is just one data point in a season full of them. Head to head is not the only thing that matters. 4 vs. 8 are not even close, these teams were not even in the same discussion for seeding so the comparison falls flat to me.

Heaven forbid some male coaches play other male coaches, do women coaches never play women coaches?


Consider the case of male coached Oregon and Cal. In this interview http://womenshoopsworld.com/2017/03/13/basketball-committee-head-answers-questions-about-the-selection-process/ the head of the committee was asked to explain why Oregon with much better credentials was lower seeded than Cal. As u can read, she ducked the question. I wonder if placing Oregon in the UConn bracket, while sending Cal to the all female Baylor quad (with the above discussed Louisville waiting) had anything to do with this? Baylor, with Alexis Jones knee injury out there, might not be a powerhouse.


Conway Gamecock



Joined: 23 Jan 2015
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PostPosted: 03/14/17 3:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

"that's what she said..."


tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 03/14/17 8:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

canadaball wrote:


Consider the case of male coached Oregon and Cal. In this interview http://womenshoopsworld.com/2017/03/13/basketball-committee-head-answers-questions-about-the-selection-process/ the head of the committee was asked to explain why Oregon with much better credentials was lower seeded than Cal. As u can read, she ducked the question. I wonder if placing Oregon in the UConn bracket, while sending Cal to the all female Baylor quad (with the above discussed Louisville waiting) had anything to do with this? Baylor, with Alexis Jones knee injury out there, might not be a powerhouse.


"And, of course, we’re always sensitive to try to put teams in venues or areas where they can get to, and their fans in particular, can get to. "


"So once we get past the 4 line, a team can actually move up or down a line because as you can imagine it gets quite complicated in order not to have those conference matchups."

"it just happens to work out if somebody’s there on the line — remember, you can go in — let’s say, for instance, you could go in on the 8 line and you’re in above — and we could move you up or we could move you down to make it work. But I’d have to go back and look at our notes and see in particular what we were, how they were moved there."

She says that they try to avoid having teams from the same conference play and that they will change seeds if it can help them get fans to see their team. But it seems like you have to be ready to put teams from the same conference in the same sub-regionals if you want to minimize travel and make it more likely they will show up.

With regard to Cal and Oregon - they are in the same conference so then it would come down to them thinking that Cal fans are more likely to fly to Waco, Texas than Oregon fans will. I wonder if there is a significant number of either fan base that would fly to Waco Texas to see a team that is not a contender.


canadaball



Joined: 24 May 2013
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PostPosted: 03/14/17 9:17 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
canadaball wrote:


Consider the case of male coached Oregon and Cal. In this interview http://womenshoopsworld.com/2017/03/13/basketball-committee-head-answers-questions-about-the-selection-process/ the head of the committee was asked to explain why Oregon with much better credentials was lower seeded than Cal. As u can read, she ducked the question. I wonder if placing Oregon in the UConn bracket, while sending Cal to the all female Baylor quad (with the above discussed Louisville waiting) had anything to do with this? Baylor, with Alexis Jones knee injury out there, might not be a powerhouse.


"And, of course, we’re always sensitive to try to put teams in venues or areas where they can get to, and their fans in particular, can get to. "


"So once we get past the 4 line, a team can actually move up or down a line because as you can imagine it gets quite complicated in order not to have those conference matchups."

"it just happens to work out if somebody’s there on the line — remember, you can go in — let’s say, for instance, you could go in on the 8 line and you’re in above — and we could move you up or we could move you down to make it work. But I’d have to go back and look at our notes and see in particular what we were, how they were moved there."

She says that they try to avoid having teams from the same conference play and that they will change seeds if it can help them get fans to see their team. But it seems like you have to be ready to put teams from the same conference in the same sub-regionals if you want to minimize travel and make it more likely they will show up.

With regard to Cal and Oregon - they are in the same conference so then it would come down to them thinking that Cal fans are more likely to fly to Waco, Texas than Oregon fans will. I wonder if there is a significant number of either fan base that would fly to Waco Texas to see a team that is not a contender.


Oregon and Cal are from the same conference. I can see no travel differences between either school going to Waco vs Durham. Using the committee's own stated criteria for shifting lower seeded teams up or down, there is no obvious explanation for dropping Oregon below Cal......unless, of course, making sure male coached Oregon has zero chance to pull off the type of upsets seen last year by Syracuse and Washington. Remember that Baylor, with Alexis Jones injury, and coming off a pounding by #6 seed West Virginia, has to be the weakest #1 seed. It is no accident that the Waco bracket is an all woman coached affair, aided by the Cal-Oregon switch.
I find the committee chairwoman's response to the Oregon Cal switch questions quite disingenuous. There were very few seeding controversies this year, yet on this matter :"But I’d have to go back and look at our notes and see in particular what we were, how they were moved there." Seems pretty obvious to me , she was ducking the question. By the way, I'd love to hear her explanation for placing Syracuse (as the lowest #8 seed) 16 places lower than #4 seed Miami. Syracuse was 11-5 in ACC; 21-10 overall; Miami was 10-6; 23-8. Syracuse beat Miami 81-48 in their only meeting. For all of this, Syracuse was given male coached Iowa State in the first round, then UConn on its home court.


Youth Coach



Joined: 23 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: 03/14/17 5:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

If indeed there was a concerted effort to make sure there couldn't be four male coached teams in the Final Four, then the people doing it would only do yet another disservice to the game.

Bad enough I have zero desire to fill out a bracket for either the men's or women's tournament this year, but if something like this was true, it would justify a lot of people jumping ship on the women's game altogether.
FrozenLVFan



Joined: 08 Jul 2014
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PostPosted: 03/14/17 6:41 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Given that the committee already has to consider records, OOC records, conf records, SOS, locations, fan draw, avoiding in-conf matchups, player losses due to injuries, blah, blah blah, I doubt coaching gender is given serious consideration.


summertime blues



Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 3801
Location: Shenandoah Valley


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PostPosted: 03/14/17 7:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

FrozenLVFan wrote:
Given that the committee already has to consider records, OOC records, conf records, SOS, locations, fan draw, avoiding in-conf matchups, player losses due to injuries, blah, blah blah, I doubt coaching gender is given serious consideration.


Hear, hear! I'm tired of the whining. Let's just play. Please?



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