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sambista



Joined: 25 Sep 2004
Posts: 16356
Location: cidade maravilhosa


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PostPosted: 03/24/17 5:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

shameful that 1) he's blaming the democrats; 2) he's willing to sit on his ever-fattening ass and let it "explode," as a true leader should do, right? and 3) that after seven years, the party of no is finally exposed as the party of "i got nothin'."

let's be clear: the gop never wanted to repeal and replace. they just wanted to repeal, period. the gop wants no part of being responsible for citizens' health. the aca, which too many of our clueless fellow americans thought was different from obamacare, is too socialist for a country that embraces capitalist extremes. this is why absolutely no one has pointed a finger where it, at least partially, belongs - at the healthcare complex. it's neither obama's fault, nor that of dems, that greed is driving rising insurance premiums or that greed has players in the so-called exchange refusing to play so people have choices. no one's talking about the need to put a cap on how much rates can rise or how much they can squeeze from people. the very providers don't care about our health; they care about profit. but nooooo . . . no one wants to talk about that.

he can spin it till his head flies off. the artist of the deal failed. he has no clue. and he and the gop would rather watch folks suffer than try another tack. and too many americans are too stupid to see what's going on. god help us all.

not that i'm saying the aca is working. but until some middle ground is reached between social good and capitalist greed - not dems vs. gop - we're stuck. and setting everything else aside, it's just plain common sense to work on fixing something that now can never be taken away completely, rather than starting from square one.

if obama and the dems have cheshire cat grins on their faces, i'm with them. now that we've had a taste of what obamacare aimed to achieve, it's gonna be hell reversing it.



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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 03/24/17 10:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think Trump is vastly overrated as a dealmaker. It's basically self-promotion. His books are ghostwritten and the original "The Art of the Deal" was supposed to be a biography and the writer changed it when he had such a hard time getting Trump to talk about his life. Trump's negotiations have amounted to getting politicians to re-zone or give building permits (and I think that the builders just bribe the politicians to get the zoning.) and buying property that is low density and putting a skyscraper on it. Or buying empty land and putting a golf course on it.

Some pundit pointed out that Trump has a history of walking away from deals. If he can't get the politicians or some seller to give him what he wants, he bails.


Luuuc



Joined: 10 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: 03/24/17 10:58 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
I think Trump is vastly overrated as a dealmaker.

I'm not sure that's true, as that would imply that he was rated highly as a dealmaker in the first place, or that using money to buy influence is any kind of innovative plan.



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Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 10748
Location: Oklahoma (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 03/25/17 10:48 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sambista wrote:
shameful that 1) he's blaming the democrats; 2) he's willing to sit on his ever-fattening ass and let it "explode," as a true leader should do, right? and 3) that after seven years, the party of no is finally exposed as the party of "i got nothin'."

"Shameful" is NOT part of Trump's range of emotions....doesn't exist. That requires a soul. If it doesn't go as he planned, it's YOUR/THEIR fault, not his. That the Dealmaker couldn't even get his OWN PARTY to come together--never mind the dems--really doesn't register as a failure on his part: and this is yet more evidence of the mental/social pathology present in this man.

“It will change. We will have so much winning if I get elected that you may get bored with winning. Believe me.” Donald. J. Trump

And yes, there are still The Cretins who DO believe. (....don't miss the last guy in this clip) Laughing



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<--Maddie Manning, Sooner Extraordinaire
justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 6585
Location: Northfield, MN


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PostPosted: 03/25/17 11:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I think the Dems should accept the "blame". Being blamed for the defeat of a horrendous plan that was panned by just about everyone and had a 17% favorability rating is not exactly a bad thing...

If Trump were smart he would stop trying to court the Freedom Caucus nut jobs who basically make any health care policy untenable and publicly court the Democrats. Throw it back on them by challenging them to come to the table and figure something out. If the Dems refuse, then the public is much more likely to hold them responsible for any ACA issues.



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tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
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PostPosted: 03/25/17 5:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wonder what the true status of the ACA is, and what the future holds. Republicans having been claiming it is going to collapse, but that is said to be a political statement, not the reality. But I did see Bernie Sanders say that changes should be made.


justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 6585
Location: Northfield, MN


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PostPosted: 03/25/17 5:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

tfan wrote:
I wonder what the true status of the ACA is, and what the future holds. Republicans having been claiming it is going to collapse, but that is said to be a political statement, not the reality. But I did see Bernie Sanders say that changes should be made.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/24/us/politics/fact-check-trumps-misleading-claims-in-health-bill-failure.amp.html

Quote:
Mr. Trump claimed Obamacare was ‘exploding.’

“I’ve been saying for the last year and a half that the best thing we can do politically speaking is let Obamacare explode. It is exploding right now.”

This is exaggerated. As Reed Abelson and Margot Sanger-Katz have reported for The Upshot, the Affordable Care Act’s insurance markets are not “exploding,” “imploding,” “failing,” “collapsing” or in a “death spiral.”

While there are certainly issues with the current law (for example, high premiums and deductibles), the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said in its first estimate of the Republican bill that both it and the Affordable Care Act would stabilize over the long run.



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ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 12107



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PostPosted: 03/25/17 9:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
tfan wrote:
I wonder what the true status of the ACA is, and what the future holds. Republicans having been claiming it is going to collapse, but that is said to be a political statement, not the reality. But I did see Bernie Sanders say that changes should be made.


https://www.google.com/amp/s/mobile.nytimes.com/2017/03/24/us/politics/fact-check-trumps-misleading-claims-in-health-bill-failure.amp.html

Quote:
Mr. Trump claimed Obamacare was ‘exploding.’

“I’ve been saying for the last year and a half that the best thing we can do politically speaking is let Obamacare explode. It is exploding right now.”

This is exaggerated. As Reed Abelson and Margot Sanger-Katz have reported for The Upshot, the Affordable Care Act’s insurance markets are not “exploding,” “imploding,” “failing,” “collapsing” or in a “death spiral.”

While there are certainly issues with the current law (for example, high premiums and deductibles), the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office said in its first estimate of the Republican bill that both it and the Affordable Care Act would stabilize over the long run.


Maybe the "explode" is exaggerated, but so are these statements​ in "Upshot" (whatever that is). The truth is the number of insurers willing to write individual policies is shrinking at an alarming rate. This was always primarily about making insurance available to individuals not covered by employer or government groups, and if insurers don't find that market profitable, then there won't be choices of policies at reasonable premiums. One of the last big insurers in the individual policy market, Humana, has already announced 2018 will be the last year. Molina Healthcare, one company that publicly opposed the Trump bill, has told investors it lost hundreds of millions of dollars last year writing individual policies and may have to stop. United and Aetna already dropped out and only deal with group and government programs.

So the ACA is on life support and without some major changes ( which likely won't happen) there simply may not be affordable policies available to individuals in a couple of years.

Rather than fix things, I expect Pelosi and company to use that outcome to try and justify a government run healthcare system. I think that approach is DoA.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 12107



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PostPosted: 03/25/17 9:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Duplicate


justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 6585
Location: Northfield, MN


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PostPosted: 03/25/17 9:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

There is no doubt that the ACA is struggling in some areas. And if Trump continues to not work to at least maintain the programs as they currently are, there could be some serious problems. That is one of the reasons that the Inspector General is going to be looking into the HHS's failure to advertise for enrollment.

However, not all markets are struggling, and the exchanges are expected to stabilize, even with the lack of competition in some areas (especially rural ones).

The Upshot is a New York TImes news column. This is the article that is being referenced: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/15/upshot/obamacare-isnt-in-a-death-spiral-its-replacement-probably-wont-be-either.html

Quote:

Mr. Ryan is right that the Obamacare market has endured hardships. It isn’t as competitive as many of its advocates had hoped, and shoppers in many parts of the country have only one insurer to choose from. Prices, which were lower than expected in the first few years of the program, spiked this year by an average of 22 percent across the country. There have also been some high-profile exits from insurers like Aetna, UnitedHealth Group and most recently Humana. Rural counties have been particularly hard hit.

But those recent woes are not the same as a death spiral, a term used to describe a complete market failure in which premiums spiral upward so only the sickest customers buy coverage.

Growing evidence suggests that the markets are far from collapse. Because of how the subsidies work, people were generally shielded from this year’s higher prices, and enrollment is steady. Several recent analyses argue that this year’s increase was a market correction, and that a smoother market would follow in the years ahead.

Many insurers had been struggling to make money but now seem closer to breaking even, said Deep Banerjee, an analyst with Standard & Poor’s. This includes Health Care Service Corp., which operates Blue Cross plans in numerous states and recently reported that financial results improved in 2016. The industry should do even better this year because of higher premiums and other changes the insurers have made.


Ultimately, the people affected by this are going to be a fairly small group. With the Medicaid expansions and the EHB's still in tact, it is hard to see it "exploding" enough to force the Democrats to go running to Trump. After their disaster of a bill, and with the fact that they control government at the moment, the reality is that the GOP now owns the consequences. Obamacare is not a great plan, but it is a heck of a lot better than what we had before. And compared to the dumpster fire that was the AHCA...



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cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 8957
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump isn't potus. If u were in my safe space, you'd be effed up


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PostPosted: 03/26/17 12:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
sambista wrote:
shameful that 1) he's blaming the democrats; 2) he's willing to sit on his ever-fattening ass and let it "explode," as a true leader should do, right? and 3) that after seven years, the party of no is finally exposed as the party of "i got nothin'."

"Shameful" is NOT part of Trump's range of emotions....doesn't exist. That requires a soul. If it doesn't go as he planned, it's YOUR/THEIR fault, not his. That the Dealmaker couldn't even get his OWN PARTY to come together--never mind the dems--really doesn't register as a failure on his part: and this is yet more evidence of the mental/social pathology present in this man.

“It will change. We will have so much winning if I get elected that you may get bored with winning. Believe me.” Donald. J. Trump

And yes, there are still [b]The Cretins who DO believe. (....don't miss the last guy in this clip) Laughing[/b]



There is no reaching these idiots.



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Stonington_QB



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 282
Location: Your safe space


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PostPosted: 03/27/17 8:53 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
Howee wrote:
"Shameful" is NOT part of Trump's range of emotions....doesn't exist. That requires a soul. If it doesn't go as he planned, it's YOUR/THEIR fault, not his. That the Dealmaker couldn't even get his OWN PARTY to come together--never mind the dems--really doesn't register as a failure on his part: and this is yet more evidence of the mental/social pathology present in this man.

“It will change. We will have so much winning if I get elected that you may get bored with winning. Believe me.” Donald. J. Trump

And yes, there are still [b]The Cretins who DO believe. (....don't miss the last guy in this clip) Laughing[/b]



There is no reaching these idiots.

So it's still the voters that are the idiots according to you two, right?
I got news for you: the voters were not crazy about this bill either. The voters are not the problem. The voters will continue to vote against your own personal interests just to get a laugh at your expense. In case you didn't figure it out, attacking the voters won't help you. But that's what I love about you guys; you have no idea how to right your own ship. Just attack people with name calling. That's all you've got. Call people cretins and idiots without ever looking in the mirror. The joke's on you two.

This iteration of the health care bill failed as it should have. There shouldn't be a "phase 2" or a "phase 3" and I'm sure they will take the time to rewrite this to include what was promised before the election. In the meantime, our premiums and our deductibles will continue to rise while the quality of care continues to decline under the current mandate.


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 12107



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PostPosted: 03/27/17 2:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stonington_QB wrote:
the quality of care continues to decline under the current mandate.


Oh really? What whackjob website provided you that silly soundbite?


Stonington_QB



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 282
Location: Your safe space


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PostPosted: 03/27/17 6:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Stonington_QB wrote:
the quality of care continues to decline under the current mandate.


Oh really? What whackjob website provided you that silly soundbite?

It's called reality. Come join it.


justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 6585
Location: Northfield, MN


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PostPosted: 03/27/17 6:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stonington_QB wrote:
the quality of care


You know, all those people who now have access to preventative care, mental health services, and drug rehab...

While the ACA has some major issues, quality of care is not one of them. Even my private insurance became more comprehensive after the ACA.

For the vast, vast majority of Americans, quality of care has improved or at least remained steady.



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Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 10748
Location: Oklahoma (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 03/27/17 8:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

cthskzfn wrote:
There is no reaching these idiots.


And yet....some still TRY. Laughing Cool



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Stonington_QB



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 282
Location: Your safe space


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PostPosted: 03/27/17 9:35 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote



ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 12107



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PostPosted: 03/27/17 10:29 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Stonington_QB wrote:
the quality of care


You know, all those people who now have access to preventative care, mental health services, and drug rehab...

While the ACA has some major issues, quality of care is not one of them. Even my private insurance became more comprehensive after the ACA.

For the vast, vast majority of Americans, quality of care has improved or at least remained steady.


Of course it has. There isn't even any reason why quality of care would have diminished. Regardless of what one thinks about the cost impacts, there's nothing in the law that would have produced such a result on the quality of care.

He has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. He's just making up ridiculously ignorant nonsense here and on the basketball forums. Seriously, we'd all be better off if we just stopped feeding the troll and ignored him.


Stonington_QB



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 282
Location: Your safe space


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PostPosted: 03/28/17 12:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
He has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. He's just making up ridiculously ignorant nonsense here and on the basketball forums. Seriously, we'd all be better off if we just stopped feeding the troll and ignored him.

It's not my fault Notre Dame can't get it done in March (or April for that matter) every year. You can't handle what I say (THE TRUTH) "here and on the basketball forums" so you get all raged up over every post I make. Sorry but I'm not here to be your cheerleader (although somebody ELSE on here sure would like to be). You're the troll if anything, a really angry one.
If you don't like what I have to say now, it's probably best you don't stick around this weekend. Maybe if you weren't so invested in such a perennial disappointment, you wouldn't get all worked up over every word I say on the Internet. Laughing


ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 12107



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PostPosted: 03/28/17 1:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Stonington_QB wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
He has absolutely no idea what he's talking about. He's just making up ridiculously ignorant nonsense here and on the basketball forums. Seriously, we'd all be better off if we just stopped feeding the troll and ignored him.

It's not my fault Notre Dame can't get it done in March (or April for that matter) every year. You can't handle what I say (THE TRUTH) "here and on the basketball forums" so you get all raged up over every post I make. Sorry but I'm not here to be your cheerleader (although somebody ELSE on here sure would like to be). You're the troll if anything, a really angry one.
If you don't like what I have to say now, it's probably best you don't stick around this weekend. Maybe if you weren't so invested in such a perennial disappointment, you wouldn't get all worked up over every word I say on the Internet. Laughing


Once again, proving my point and the wisdom of my recommendation.


justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 6585
Location: Northfield, MN


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PostPosted: 03/28/17 2:04 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wait...I'm Art's cheerleader now? That is awesome. Imma get my pom-poms.



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Stonington_QB



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 282
Location: Your safe space


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PostPosted: 03/29/17 11:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
Once again, proving my point and the wisdom of my recommendation.

What point? You don't have one.
And your "wisdom" that right there is hilarious!
Angry Art's "wisdom"


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