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Why the alt-left is a problem too

 
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pilight



Joined: 23 Sep 2004
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PostPosted: 03/03/17 12:33 pm    ::: Why the alt-left is a problem too Reply Reply with quote

http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/03/why-the-alt-left-is-a-problem

Quote:
The Tyler Durden Fight Club alt-right idolizes Putin as a bare-chested manly man, as opposed to a metrosexual like Obama and an emasculating harpy like Hillary. This isn’t a beefcake fetish the alt-left shares. Instead, it invokes McCarthyism and the specter of a new Red Scare to characterize rising alarm over the Russian cyber-warfare as a rehash of Cold War bogeyman tales.



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cthskzfn



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PostPosted: 03/03/17 1:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

the familiar false equivalence, alive and well.



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Last edited by cthskzfn on 03/04/17 10:28 am; edited 1 time in total
mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 03/03/17 9:54 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

They are definitely a problem. They are causing a rift in the Democratic party. Suggest harmful ideas..and quite frankly, are partially responsible for GW and Trump's election.

But although they have a privileged feel too them (and quite frankly..a racist and sexist feel..) they aren't the new KKK..which is exactly what the "alt right" is.

So..problem..yes.
As bad as the "alt right"...hell no.

Kind of like Republican's and Democrats. Are they both politicians? yes. Are they both likely compromised in an attempt to gain power (in some way)? Yes.

But Republicans are either fucking crazy or selfish bastards looking to destroy the economy, environment and continue the oppression of several different groups in this country...all to make money in the short term. Democrats genuinely want what's best for the country, and hope they can get a personal benefit out of it..There is a huge difference.



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ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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PostPosted: 03/04/17 12:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:


But Republicans are either fucking crazy or selfish bastards looking to destroy the economy, environment and continue the oppression of several different groups in this country...all to make money in the short term. Democrats genuinely want what's best for the country, and hope they can get a personal benefit out of it..There is a huge difference.


What is both hilarious and sad is that I think you actually believe this.

It's as if you've been brainwashed.


Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 10633
Location: Oklahoma (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 03/04/17 12:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
Democrats genuinely want what's best for the country, and hope they can get a personal benefit out of it..There is a huge difference.


Depends upon WHICH Dems you mean. I wouldn't give 'em ALL a pass on this count. I'm not currently too happy with Shumer and Booker atm for their stance on pharm legislation.

But regardless, the OP article is a Bigger Picture snapshot of the gigantic FlusterCuck that is American Politics. Power to the People can be a scary thing.



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mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 03/04/17 8:56 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

ArtBest23 wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:


But Republicans are either fucking crazy or selfish bastards looking to destroy the economy, environment and continue the oppression of several different groups in this country...all to make money in the short term. Democrats genuinely want what's best for the country, and hope they can get a personal benefit out of it..There is a huge difference.


What is both hilarious and sad is that I think you actually believe this.

It's as if you've been brainwashed.


First of all, stop being condescending. If you don't have shit to back up a disagreement with me.

Democrats wanted to provide people with healthcare for the past 20 years (Clinton in the early 90s)..Republicans want to strip it away from 20 million people so that they can afford tax cuts for the wealthy. What part of that isn't Democrats trying to help people and Republicans being selfish bastards?

Democrats agree with 97% of the scientific community that climate change is happening. They understand the consequences of pollution. For several reasons, they may not be as radical as necessary to help, but they still look to improve the environment. Republicans ignore basic science, and are even going so far as to attempt to destroy the EPA for the short term gain of oil money. Which part of that isn't trying to help vs. greedy bastard?

Democrats want to ensure women have the right to control their own bodies. Democrats want to ensure civil rights. Republicans will attempt to cite "Constitutional overreach", knowing full fucking well that these laws are necessary to ensure basic fairness. If you truly believe we are talking about "Societal norms" instead of a basic right to exist, perhaps your identity isn't up for debate?

You aren't the only person here with a legal education. Some of us just don't feel the need to pompously shout "lawyer" in every conversation we have. And your analysis of our political system suggests it's been a long time since you've revisited your education. It's cute and all to be an Originalist, but it's an outdated inaccurate interpretation of our political and legal structure. Both sides believe in big government, States rights is barely even a thing for either party any longer. It's just one side uses big government for good..like the rest of the First World, and the other uses it to push harmful century old ideology on us.

Likewise, the rest of the First World has figured out that governmental programs are necessary to help citizens, and laws are necessary to ensure rights. It's time to get on board.

So just because you disagree with Democrats attempts, it does not mean they aren't trying to do what is best for the country. You'll have a hard time convincing me that a group of politicians that are suddenly okay with Russia interfering in our election, and our President's reckless decision making...just so they can stay in power..are trying to do what is best for the country.

Do Democrats have the normal failings of politicians (or people in power in general)? Of course. But that's completely different from policy positions and Republican actions that have gone far beyond that.



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mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
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PostPosted: 03/04/17 9:03 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
Democrats genuinely want what's best for the country, and hope they can get a personal benefit out of it..There is a huge difference.


Depends upon WHICH Dems you mean. I wouldn't give 'em ALL a pass on this count. I'm not currently too happy with Shumer and Booker atm for their stance on pharm legislation.

But regardless, the OP article is a Bigger Picture snapshot of the gigantic FlusterCuck that is American Politics. Power to the People can be a scary thing.


1. Booker is from a state that produces Pharmaceuticals. You can't ask him to vote for a bill that would kill his constituents economy.

2. That hoopla was ridiculous in itself. They both voted for another amendment that would cheapen the cost of pharmaceuticals, it was just because it wasn't Bernie's amendment that some got upset. There were reasonable explanations for why the two (and several other Democrats), didn't vote for the amendment. And the fact that, once again, they did vote for the other one, suggests that their reasoning wasn't just bullshit.

Further, this goes back to what I was saying...the left nit picks. Look at the overall picture...would Booker and Schumar not try and put in place policies that would be overall beneficial to Americans? Or at least significantly more so than just about any Republican you can think of?



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What it takes to play a gay pirate, a gay candymaker, and a gay mad hatter, and still land a role as John Dilinger.
Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 10633
Location: Oklahoma (in my heart)


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PostPosted: 03/04/17 2:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
Look at the overall picture...would Booker and Schumar not try and put in place policies that would be overall beneficial to Americans? Or at least significantly more so than just about any Republican you can think of?

Yes. I'd agree with that, just as I'm sure you'd agree that all Dems aren't necessarily immune from the personal gains to be reaped from their positions, i.e., Altruism is not always their biggest motive. Sanders, Franken and Warren strike me as some of the best in this regard. Shumer, not so much. Yet, I'd vote for him in a NY minute over 90% of the Republicans I know.



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ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 11469



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PostPosted: 03/05/17 2:18 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
ArtBest23 wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:


But Republicans are either fucking crazy or selfish bastards looking to destroy the economy, environment and continue the oppression of several different groups in this country...all to make money in the short term. Democrats genuinely want what's best for the country, and hope they can get a personal benefit out of it..There is a huge difference.


What is both hilarious and sad is that I think you actually believe this.

It's as if you've been brainwashed.


First of all, stop being condescending. If you don't have shit to back up a disagreement with me.

Democrats wanted to provide people with healthcare for the past 20 years (Clinton in the early 90s)..Republicans want to strip it away from 20 million people so that they can afford tax cuts for the wealthy. What part of that isn't Democrats trying to help people and Republicans being selfish bastards?

Democrats agree with 97% of the scientific community that climate change is happening. They understand the consequences of pollution. For several reasons, they may not be as radical as necessary to help, but they still look to improve the environment. Republicans ignore basic science, and are even going so far as to attempt to destroy the EPA for the short term gain of oil money. Which part of that isn't trying to help vs. greedy bastard?

Democrats want to ensure women have the right to control their own bodies. Democrats want to ensure civil rights. Republicans will attempt to cite "Constitutional overreach", knowing full fucking well that these laws are necessary to ensure basic fairness. If you truly believe we are talking about "Societal norms" instead of a basic right to exist, perhaps your identity isn't up for debate?

You aren't the only person here with a legal education. Some of us just don't feel the need to pompously shout "lawyer" in every conversation we have. And your analysis of our political system suggests it's been a long time since you've revisited your education. It's cute and all to be an Originalist, but it's an outdated inaccurate interpretation of our political and legal structure. Both sides believe in big government, States rights is barely even a thing for either party any longer. It's just one side uses big government for good..like the rest of the First World, and the other uses it to push harmful century old ideology on us.

Likewise, the rest of the First World has figured out that governmental programs are necessary to help citizens, and laws are necessary to ensure rights. It's time to get on board.

So just because you disagree with Democrats attempts, it does not mean they aren't trying to do what is best for the country. You'll have a hard time convincing me that a group of politicians that are suddenly okay with Russia interfering in our election, and our President's reckless decision making...just so they can stay in power..are trying to do what is best for the country.

Do Democrats have the normal failings of politicians (or people in power in general)? Of course. But that's completely different from policy positions and Republican actions that have gone far beyond that.


Thank you for proving my point with that mindless Trump-worthy rant. There's nothing more needs to be said.


cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 8516
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump is not president.


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PostPosted: 03/05/17 10:27 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here's what I say: equating the platform/policies of the 2 sides of the political power coin is unwise.



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mercfan3



Joined: 23 Nov 2004
Posts: 17746



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PostPosted: 03/05/17 10:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
Look at the overall picture...would Booker and Schumar not try and put in place policies that would be overall beneficial to Americans? Or at least significantly more so than just about any Republican you can think of?

Yes. I'd agree with that, just as I'm sure you'd agree that all Dems aren't necessarily immune from the personal gains to be reaped from their positions, i.e., Altruism is not always their biggest motive. Sanders, Franken and Warren strike me as some of the best in this regard. Shumer, not so much. Yet, I'd vote for him in a NY minute over 90% of the Republicans I know.


I disagree completely about Sanders, but in general this is my precisely my point.

Democrats are what you expect politicians to be. They encourage policies to help the public good, but of course they are looking for personal gain.

Republicans ...

Artbest continues to provide nothing to a discussion besides being condescending. You think I'm wrong, back it up. Otherwise, you just sound like a seven year old with a large vocabulary.



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What it takes to play a gay pirate, a gay candymaker, and a gay mad hatter, and still land a role as John Dilinger.
justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 6346
Location: Northfield, MN


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PostPosted: 03/05/17 1:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Here is an interesting take on Trumpism and why it resonates so much with the alt-right. Gone is the orthodoxy of Randian pro-capitalist, anti-government individualism and in its place is big government working directly against liberalism.

Ayn Rand is dead. Liberals are going to miss her.

Quote:
Now Rand is on the shelf, gathering dust with F.A. Hayek, Edmund Burke and other once-prominent conservative luminaries. It’s no longer possible to provoke the elders by going on about John Galt. Indeed, many of the elders have by now used Randian references to name their yachts, investment companies and foundations.

Instead, young insurgent conservatives talk about “race realism ,” argue that manipulated crime statistics mask growing social disorder and cast feminism as a plot against men. Instead of reading Rand, they take the “red pill”, indulging in an emergent internet counter-culture that reveals the principles of liberalism — rights, equality, tolerance — to be dangerous myths. Beyond Breitbart.com, ideological energy on the right now courses through tiny blogs and websites of the Dark Enlightenment, the latter-day equivalent of Rand’s Objectivist Newsletter and the many libertarian ’zines she inspired.



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ArtBest23



Joined: 02 Jul 2013
Posts: 11469



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PostPosted: 03/05/17 3:52 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
Howee wrote:
mercfan3 wrote:
Look at the overall picture...would Booker and Schumar not try and put in place policies that would be overall beneficial to Americans? Or at least significantly more so than just about any Republican you can think of?

Yes. I'd agree with that, just as I'm sure you'd agree that all Dems aren't necessarily immune from the personal gains to be reaped from their positions, i.e., Altruism is not always their biggest motive. Sanders, Franken and Warren strike me as some of the best in this regard. Shumer, not so much. Yet, I'd vote for him in a NY minute over 90% of the Republicans I know.


I disagree completely about Sanders, but in general this is my precisely my point.

Democrats are what you expect politicians to be. They encourage policies to help the public good, but of course they are looking for personal gain.

Republicans ...

Artbest continues to provide nothing to a discussion besides being condescending. You think I'm wrong, back it up. Otherwise, you just sound like a seven year old with a large vocabulary.


Back it up? You haven't said anything other than "extreme lefty Democrats good. All who disagree with mercfan bad". Completely ridiculous superficial tripe.


Stonington_QB



Joined: 05 Jul 2013
Posts: 157
Location: Your safe space


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PostPosted: 03/06/17 10:22 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

mercfan3 wrote:
would Booker and Schumar not try and put in place policies that would be overall beneficial to Americans? Or at least significantly more so than just about any Republican you can think of?

What are some of these policies that Corey Booker and Chuck Schumer put in place to benefit Americans?


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