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Oldfandepot2
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WNBA 09
Joined: 26 Jun 2009
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Location: Dallas , Texas
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 Posted: 03/02/17 12:50 pm ::: Re: Naismith Finalists |
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| Oldfandepot2 wrote: |
http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-women/article/2017-03-02/2017-naismith-womens-college-basketball-player-year
Nephessa Collier
Brionna Jones
Kelsey Plum
Kelsey Mitchell
Katie Lou Samuelson
Brianna Turner
Victoria Vivians
Syndey Weise
Gabby Williams
A'ja Wilson |
No DD ? Id Take the season shes had over Brianna Turner & Maybe V. Vivians
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summertime blues
Joined: 16 Apr 2013
Posts: 7842
Location: Shenandoah Valley
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| Posted: 03/02/17 12:52 pm ::: |
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| I ignore the whole thing, now that I've become a fan of a good mid-major team.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8227
Location: Heisenberg
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| Posted: 03/02/17 2:07 pm ::: |
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Wouldn't be a bad 10 person AA team.
I don't know about Vivians and Weise. I take Jankoska, Walker-Kimbrough or Peterson over both of them. |
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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| Posted: 03/02/17 2:17 pm ::: |
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| I would take off Weise, Collier and Vivians, OSU played a woeful OOC PAC just beats up and match ups are different every game, Williams and Collier are basically the same player and I would take Williams, Collier gets easy buckets as she plays with KLS and Wiliams, AAC has a couple a good defenders but noone else to guard that 3rd wheel especially in the post, Miss St has had some really good team games.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/02/17 3:25 pm ::: |
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| Nixtreefan wrote: |
| I would take off Weise, Collier and Vivians, OSU played a woeful OOC PAC just beats up and match ups are different every game, Williams and Collier are basically the same player and I would take Williams, Collier gets easy buckets as she plays with KLS and Wiliams, AAC has a couple a good defenders but noone else to guard that 3rd wheel especially in the post, Miss St has had some really good team games. |
Frankly, I think Samuelson is on all these lists because people expected her to be the leader of UConn and on all these lists before any games were ever played. In reality she's turned out to be the third best and third most important player on the team. If I was dropping a UConn player, she'd be the one I'd drop.
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linkster
Joined: 27 Jul 2012
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| Posted: 03/02/17 3:50 pm ::: |
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| Nixtreefan wrote: |
| I would take off Weise, Collier and Vivians, OSU played a woeful OOC PAC just beats up and match ups are different every game, Williams and Collier are basically the same player and I would take Williams, Collier gets easy buckets as she plays with KLS and Wiliams, AAC has a couple a good defenders but no one else to guard that 3rd wheel especially in the post, Miss St has had some really good team games. |
Suggesting that Collier has put up her numbers by feasting on weak AAC teams sounds great but the facts don't support it. Collier has faced 10 ranked teams. She has averaged 20 pts & 8 rebounds in those games while averaging 13 shots a game. And if she has easy shots it's because she is a genius at getting good position and having the best low post moves I've seen this year.
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cthskzfn
Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 12851
Location: In a world where a PSYCHOpath like Trump isn't potus.
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| Posted: 03/02/17 3:59 pm ::: |
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| linkster wrote: |
| Nixtreefan wrote: |
| I would take off Weise, Collier and Vivians, OSU played a woeful OOC PAC just beats up and match ups are different every game, Williams and Collier are basically the same player and I would take Williams, Collier gets easy buckets as she plays with KLS and Wiliams, AAC has a couple a good defenders but no one else to guard that 3rd wheel especially in the post, Miss St has had some really good team games. |
Suggesting that Collier has put up her numbers by feasting on weak AAC teams sounds great but the facts don't support it. Collier has faced 10 ranked teams. She has averaged 20 pts & 8 rebounds in those games while averaging 13 shots a game. And if she has easy shots it's because she is a genius at getting good position and having the best low post moves I've seen this year. |
Pretty sure Phees stole his lunch.
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ewecon
Joined: 28 Dec 2012
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| Posted: 03/02/17 4:15 pm ::: |
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| Nixtreefan wrote: |
| I would take off Weise, Collier and Vivians, OSU played a woeful OOC PAC just beats up and match ups are different every game, Williams and Collier are basically the same player and I would take Williams, Collier gets easy buckets as she plays with KLS and Wiliams, AAC has a couple a good defenders but noone else to guard that 3rd wheel especially in the post, Miss St has had some really good team games. |
Take off Collier because she gets easy shots? You can't be serious. She's one of the best all-around players in the country. How many games have you watched her play? She's a post player, so of course she's going to get easier shots. That said, it's not like she doesn't hit any jumpers or 3pt shots, for God's sake. Maybe you should take Wilson, Turner and Jones off the list, too... Afterall, they get easy shots, too.
Collier averages 20.4 ppg on a team that has 5 starters that can all score. She shoots 68.6% from the floor, including 40.5% from beyond the arc. Her FT percentage is 82.9%, she averages 9 rebounds per game, has 56 blocks and 52 steals (as a post player, and an undersized one at that). Find me a player whose overall stats compare to those. Before you say Collier should be dropped, maybe you should check out the stats or Wilson and Turner and tell me why they deserve to stay on the list over Collier.
Just my opinion vs. yours, of course, but at least my opinion has some factual basis other than "she gets easy buckets and plays with KLS and Williams" .... You mention the defenders in the AAC, but you fail to recognize that UConn played the toughest OOC schedule in the country, and played against many of the top post players in the country. So, sorry, your AAC comment has little merit in my eyes.
Using your logic, maybe we should take Plum and her 30ppg average off the list, too, because she shoots the ball a lot more than most.
P.S. Vivians and Wiese's stats aren't even close to Colliers. Just sayin'.
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Oldfandepot2
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Oldfandepot2
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| Posted: 03/02/17 4:43 pm ::: |
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| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Nixtreefan wrote: |
| I would take off Weise, Collier and Vivians, OSU played a woeful OOC PAC just beats up and match ups are different every game, Williams and Collier are basically the same player and I would take Williams, Collier gets easy buckets as she plays with KLS and Wiliams, AAC has a couple a good defenders but noone else to guard that 3rd wheel especially in the post, Miss St has had some really good team games. |
Frankly, I think Samuelson is on all these lists because people expected her to be the leader of UConn and on all these lists before any games were ever played. In reality she's turned out to be the third best and third most important player on the team. If I was dropping a UConn player, she'd be the one I'd drop. |
Agree, Art as was rather surprised Samuelson was there. Who would supplant her though in your opinion?
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myrtle
Joined: 02 May 2008
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| Posted: 03/02/17 4:44 pm ::: |
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| I like the list. Could the bottom be tweaked. Sure. But the ones that matter are on it.
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if only we’re brave enough to see it.
If only we’re brave enough to be it.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/02/17 5:04 pm ::: |
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| Oldfandepot2 wrote: |
| ArtBest23 wrote: |
| Nixtreefan wrote: |
| I would take off Weise, Collier and Vivians, OSU played a woeful OOC PAC just beats up and match ups are different every game, Williams and Collier are basically the same player and I would take Williams, Collier gets easy buckets as she plays with KLS and Wiliams, AAC has a couple a good defenders but noone else to guard that 3rd wheel especially in the post, Miss St has had some really good team games. |
Frankly, I think Samuelson is on all these lists because people expected her to be the leader of UConn and on all these lists before any games were ever played. In reality she's turned out to be the third best and third most important player on the team. If I was dropping a UConn player, she'd be the one I'd drop. |
Agree, Art as was rather surprised Samuelson was there. Who would supplant her though in your opinion? |
I wasn't actually saying she should be off. I just see a presumption that she should be on all these lists while people argue about Collier and Williams. I'd have Collier and Williams on all these lists and be dropping Samuelson if I was dropping anyone.
Although, I always wonder how, if you're only the third best player on your own team, you could possibly be considered for a best player in the country award.
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ArtBest23
Joined: 02 Jul 2013
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| Posted: 03/02/17 5:06 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| I like the list. Could the bottom be tweaked. Sure. But the ones that matter are on it. |
I only get to seven, so there's probably a number of players who I'd consider for the last three spots if I had to fill it to ten.
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Nixtreefan
Joined: 14 Nov 2012
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| Posted: 03/02/17 5:45 pm ::: |
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Your comment does't even make sense. Who the heck is being guarded on the team. Not Collier. Have never seen a player more open especially in their weak ass conference. It's not like the AAC teams have a bunch of good posts.
I know Travis and his team from SMU pretty well and they were definitely not worried about Collier as much as KLS and Wiliams. Plus of all the players on Uconns team she does not pass the ball, now I will leave it to the Uconn folk to say whether that is due to the fact she can't think quickly enough to make those passes or whether she is shining her teammates off. Williams has become the better post of the 2 as she can pass the ball. Even Butler outlets the ball better than Collier.
BTW just talked to to my buds and I guess in those SMU games she had trouble with their long posts Hmmmm. When Williams is picking up the better post defender I guess when you are guarded by the weaker defender it is much easier to make those 2 foot baskets over undersized posts.
Butler could have put up the same rebounding numbers on that team if she played the same minutes. I am also starting to think Glenn was on to something when he said Chong was made a scapegoat. How did she not warrant more minutes in prior years.
Trying to compare stats from different teams is dumb as they play with different players and none of them play with players like KLS and Williams, who can both move and pass the ball better than any other duo in the country. Vivians plays with a good PG and post combo, Weise and OSU, I will predict could be knocked out, just as we could, depending on the opposing coaching scout level.
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GlennMacGrady
Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 8227
Location: Heisenberg
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| Posted: 03/02/17 6:37 pm ::: |
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| myrtle wrote: |
| But the ones that matter are on it. |
True that.
Plum
Plum
Plum
Plum
Plum
Plum
Plum
Plum
Plum
and . . . uh ... hmmm . . . (opens door a crack) . . .
the BOB |
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Nixtreefan
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ewecon
Joined: 28 Dec 2012
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| Posted: 03/04/17 9:18 pm ::: |
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| Nixtreefan wrote: |
Your comment does't even make sense. Who the heck is being guarded on the team. Not Collier. Have never seen a player more open especially in their weak ass conference. It's not like the AAC teams have a bunch of good posts.
I know Travis and his team from SMU pretty well and they were definitely not worried about Collier as much as KLS and Wiliams. Plus of all the players on Uconns team she does not pass the ball, now I will leave it to the Uconn folk to say whether that is due to the fact she can't think quickly enough to make those passes or whether she is shining her teammates off. Williams has become the better post of the 2 as she can pass the ball. Even Butler outlets the ball better than Collier.
BTW just talked to to my buds and I guess in those SMU games she had trouble with their long posts Hmmmm. When Williams is picking up the better post defender I guess when you are guarded by the weaker defender it is much easier to make those 2 foot baskets over undersized posts.
Butler could have put up the same rebounding numbers on that team if she played the same minutes. I am also starting to think Glenn was on to something when he said Chong was made a scapegoat. How did she not warrant more minutes in prior years.
Trying to compare stats from different teams is dumb as they play with different players and none of them play with players like KLS and Williams, who can both move and pass the ball better than any other duo in the country. Vivians plays with a good PG and post combo, Weise and OSU, I will predict could be knocked out, just as we could, depending on the opposing coaching scout level. |
Nixtreefan, nothing you say changes my mind about how ridiculous leaving Collier off the list would be, and how ridiculous your reason for doing it is. If you don't think she belongs there, then you're not paying attention..... or you're just another UConn hater, which is fine.
Having to compare stats from different teams is dumb? How are you supposed to look at stats? If you're comparing player stats, you're comparing their stats within the context of their teams offense, and defense, to other players within the context of their team. You think Plum would score 30ppg if she played at UConn? Do you think Samuelson WOULDN'T score 30ppg if she played for any other AAC team? You insistence on saying Collier doesn't belong there "because no one is guarding her" is absurd. Did you ever stop tho think that maybe she's skilled enough to make it LOOK like no one's guarding her? She's being guarded....unsuccessfully. Look, I have no beef with you personally and I know arguing with you about this is like pushing a rope uphill....futile. So let's just leave it at. You're entitled to you opinion, but if you don't think Collier is one of the best players in the country, then you have no credibility with me.
Re: Chong.....she didn't warrant more minutes per game in prior years because she didn't earn them in practice. It's as simple as that. That's how it's done at UConn. Surprised you didn't know that since you're such a UConn expert. There's no scapegoat conspiracy.
RE: SMU: Since you know Travis and his SMU team pretty well, maybe you should tell him that they definitely SHOULD worry about Collier next time since in two games against them she scored 29 points, had 29 boards and 6 blocks. They lost by 40 points each game, so apparently they had plenty to worry about.
The only thing more ludicrous than your suggesting Collier not be on the list is what I read over at that Volnation site the other day.... Some Lady Vol poster said Diamond DeShields is better than EVERYONE on the list, AND, compounded that statement by saying... "and it's not even close!". LMFAO! DD is a good player, but in my mind, she's overrated. She's too inconsistent and tends to disappear, and turns the ball over WAY too much. Not impressed with her in the least.
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