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MuneravenMN



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PostPosted: 02/22/17 10:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
Critical thinking, Candice. Get you some. It's in the same aisle as the clues.

I've never seen someone so adept and graceful at writing about herself... and so tone-deaf and ham-handed when discussing other people.


Her interview just went around in confusing circles, saying nothing.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 02/22/17 11:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Chantel Tremitiere the former WNBA point guard absolutely went off on Wiggins on Facebook. For those of you on facebook, check it out. I don't know what we are allowed to quote or whatever.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 12:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Howee wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
I've never read of gangs of gay men, lesbians, or people who are transgender roaming the streets and attacking and killing people perceived to be heterosexual.


I don't think anyone was saying or even implying that the flipside is totally equivalent. But just cuz "reverse discrimination" isn't equal in quantity, doesn't make it IMPOSSIBLE, either. Even if Candace is THE ONLY ONE IN THE LEAGUE EVER, she deserves to be heard, BUT....she bears a huge load of accountability. And she seems to be ignorant of the broadness of her brushstrokes....that doesn't do her credibility on favors.


No, reverse discrimination isn't impossible. Every group has some bad people in it. And even if just one player in the WNBA is bullied for any reason, that player deserves to be heard. Absolutely.

But there have indeed been statements of false equivalency on this thread. And I find them offensive.


Agree. And as you've said, some of those false equivalencies are going to be highlighted by certain types of people for the wrong reasons. And it's also bad for girls who aspire to be WNBA players. Some parents might discourage them from aspiring to that goal based on misinformation such as this.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 1:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
Howee wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
I've never read of gangs of gay men, lesbians, or people who are transgender roaming the streets and attacking and killing people perceived to be heterosexual.


I don't think anyone was saying or even implying that the flipside is totally equivalent. But just cuz "reverse discrimination" isn't equal in quantity, doesn't make it IMPOSSIBLE, either. Even if Candace is THE ONLY ONE IN THE LEAGUE EVER, she deserves to be heard, BUT....she bears a huge load of accountability. And she seems to be ignorant of the broadness of her brushstrokes....that doesn't do her credibility on favors.


No, reverse discrimination isn't impossible. Every group has some bad people in it. And even if just one player in the WNBA is bullied for any reason, that player deserves to be heard. Absolutely.

But there have indeed been statements of false equivalency on this thread. And I find them offensive.


Agree. And as you've said, some of those false equivalencies are going to be highlighted by certain types of people for the wrong reasons. And it's also bad for girls who aspire to be WNBA players. Some parents might discourage them from aspiring to that goal based on misinformation such as this.


Thanks for this statement.

I am haunted thinking of the damage that Wiggins' unqualified lesbian smear may have on girls who love basketball or any other sport.



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MuneravenMN



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 8:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Watching Candice ramble and contradict herself in the follow-up to her interview, I was really disturbed. I remember her as articulate. She was anything but that in this case. She also looked a bit odd. I don't mean to denigrate her appearance. I mean she looked like a person who isn't quite okay. Maybe it was just her style, which was always different?

Is it possible that Wiggins actually isn't okay?

I just wondered if anyone else thought she seemed off...



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pilight



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 8:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

When you're washed up before you turn 30, you often look for someone or something to blame for your disappointing career.



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 8:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Chantel Tremitiere the former WNBA point guard absolutely went off on Wiggins on Facebook. For those of you on facebook, check it out. I don't know what we are allowed to quote or whatever.


Chantel dropped the mic.



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zune69



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 9:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Chantel Tremitiere the former WNBA point guard absolutely went off on Wiggins on Facebook. For those of you on facebook, check it out. I don't know what we are allowed to quote or whatever.


Link Please.


Thank you @Genero36




Last edited by zune69 on 02/23/17 9:49 am; edited 4 times in total
And1



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 9:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

http://www.sfgate.com/collegesports/article/Tara-VanDerveer-defends-WNBA-from-Candice-10952346.php

Quote:
Referring to Wiggins’ contention that 98 percent of WNBA players are gay, she said, “I don’t know that math was ever Candice’s strength. That to me sounds homophobic and negative.”
--Tara Van Derveer


Tara dropped the mic.


Genero36



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 9:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Link please.


Dear Candice Wiggins

I decided to take a social media timeout for the month of February. Today was the first time I decided to go on and just get caught up with the world...and the FIRST thing I see is your interview posted on a former WNBA] players' page. So I am coming back on real quick for this one.

I was a point guard in the #WNBA for the first 4 years of the league and in the first year, our slogan was WE GOT NEXT! Well, CHANTEL has "NEXT" because it is my turn to respond. There have been other responses posted and comments made by former and current players but most of those ladies are being politically correct and I commend them for that. But ANYONE who knows CHANTEL knows that "politically correct" is NOT a part of my universe. So I will tell it exactly like it is.

Your interview literally made me sick to my stomach. I don't even know you and I don't like you and it has nothing to do with your sexual preference. It does however, have everything to do with your blatant and utter disregard for an organization that provided you with 8 years of financial stability and opportunity.

I know now that you could have never played on my team because I would have been the FIRST to call you and check you on this. I guarantee the next day in practice you would have "hit the ground" on numerous occasions, not for being heterosexual, but for being stupid.

I can PROMISE you one thing. Lesbians, whether they are in the league or not, don't really hate heterosexuals. They DO hate homophobic people. I will not make any assumptions about what kind of teammate you were. Making assumptions has obviously landed you in the inauspicious position you are now. Lesbians don't have time to hate on or bully anyone else because they are too busy fighting against the people who hate on or bully them.

I find it interesting that your interview happened AFTER your career. You never mentioned telling anyone about your problem while you were playing. Based on your extremely incorrect "98% of the league being lesbian" my question is whether you asked the ONLY 1.9 other straight women in the league at that time if they had the same issue. And since you like to spew out false percentages, let me show you what some factual numbers can do.

5,821,016,750. 2,852,298,207. 80. 50. .000001753%

1st is how many people were in the world in 1996. 2nd is approximately how many were women. 3rd is how many women were drafted on to WNBA active rosters in year one. 4th is how many of them started. The last number is a percentage of women in the WORLD who fought their way to start in the first EVER game of the WNBA. Every one of those women fought that hard and "threw people to the ground" so YOU could have your opportunity a decade later. Although I don't take into account the actual playing age of the women in the world, I figure with a Stanford degree, you will be able to understand my point.....which is:

The reason you were "thrown to the ground" in practice wasn't because of your sexuality. Female ATHLETES were fighting other female ATHLETES for a JOB, a livelihood, legacies, championships and their dreams. The LAST thing ANYONE is worried about during a professional sports fight is someone else's sexuality.

And if you would like MORE numbers, I suppose the 18% FG you shot getting your 1.6 points in 13.9 minutes a game your second to last year was because you were being bullied by lesbian teammates? I will raise your 98% by 2% and tell you with 100% certainty that those teammates weren't having conversations in their condos about purposely "throwing Candice to the ground" because you are heterosexual. You have to do better than that.

I am especially offended that you were a point guard. This venom you have spewed doesn't prove to me how heterosexual you are. What it DOES prove to me is what kind of leader as a point guard you were NOT.

Over the past 20 years, the WNBA has made dreams come true for roughly 1,000 women. For you to publicly try to diminish both the league and its players is simply a futile attempt for you to regain some semblance of relevancy. The opportunity to play in that league and wear that WNBA patch on someone's chest extends beyond the court as well. In fact, if it were not for the WNBA, I would not be 6 months away from getting my PhD and having Dr. in front of my name. Maybe you want to sell more of your books when it comes out. But young lady, your vain attempt at grasping for straws by trying to trash the very league that has given you this voice is now making you more irrelevant.

The craziest thing about you doing this, is talking about where you want to be in the future. Do you not think the USA Volleyball team will now hesitate in allowing you a tryout if it thinks you will trash that organization when you don't make the squad? You are still a sore loser. Your interview just made you a public one.

Your voice now means nothing though because you waited so long to throw your rocks. I would suggest the next time you are given a public stage to complain, you approach it with a little more class and humility and less hatred. Do your homework. Get your facts right. And then, make a telephone call to some of these greats: Lisa Leslie, Sheryl Swoopes, Cynthia Cooper, Rebecca Lobo, Delisha Milton-Jones, Kym Hampton, Chamique Holdsclaw, Elena Della Donne, Skylar Diggins, Rushia Brown, Candace Parker and Maya Moore. Ask them how many times they were told to look more like men and cut their hair. Ask them if they would have become so successful by having to become someone they aren't. You'll probably get another number. 0.

Candice, go SIT DOWN somewhere. Instead of trashing the WNBA, try reaching out to them and ask how you can become a catalyst for change by helping to make the league better for women for the next 20 years.

The next time you attempt to publicly tear down the legacy of an organization or its players because of your inability to handle the competitiveness and responsibility of being a professional athlete...clean off that dirty mirror in front of you. I will make sure I get my hands on a copy of your book when it comes out but only to burn it....kind of like the way you just burned that bridge.

BlackSportsOnline - Since you only published ONE side...try publishing THIS!

I'll see y'all back on social media March 1st.

Wasn't My Experience. #WNBA

Chantel

https://www.facebook.com/chanteltremitiere3/posts/10210161323242686



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 10:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Give it a "like" (if you do).

https://www.facebook.com/chanteltremitiere3/posts/10210161323242686[/quote]


Howee



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 1:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

MuneravenMN wrote:
Is it possible that Wiggins actually isn't okay?

I just wondered if anyone else thought she seemed off...


I actually made that observation a few posts back: I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if there's some kind of mental/emotional pathology in play here.



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jap



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 1:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
MuneravenMN wrote:
Is it possible that Wiggins actually isn't okay?

I just wondered if anyone else thought she seemed off...


I actually made that observation a few posts back: I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if there's some kind of mental/emotional pathology in play here.


You have to keep in mind that this woman was the third draftee, behind Candace Parker and Sylvia Fowles, of one of the best draft classes in 2008. She was doing very well, indeed, her rookie season, breaking Chamique's Holdsclaw's record for most 20+ point games off the bench (six in 2006) with seven 20+ contests. She earned a spot on the All-Rookie Team, scoring the WNBA's highest scoring average by a bench player (15.7). She led the Lynx with assists (3.0) and ranked 20th in the WNBA in that regard. She also ranked 7th in the league in steals (1.80).

Then she was unable to play the last two games due to a torn lateral meniscus in her right knee, and I don't think her game was ever the same after that. I don't believe she ever made a full recovery from that bad knee. I wonder if there has been a gradual build up of frustration over the fact that she never was able to come close to truly reaching her full potential. She was reduced from a budding star to merely a role player. Some can handle that forced transition with greater ease than others.

How this plays into the perceived bullying and other 'complaints' I am not too sure of, whether as added frustration or convenient excuses or whatever lies in-between.



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Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 3:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thankfully Borders and Nneka Ogwumike handled the situation with class unlike some people on this board and on twitter, who in line with what Glenn said, seem to have fallen into the category of what Wiggins is referring to.


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PostPosted: 02/23/17 5:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
Thankfully Borders and Nneka Ogwumike handled the situation with class...

Borders hasn't handled the situation at all. She and the league have been regrettably silent.

If you read what the different websites and articles are saying, they are not focusing on what happened to one individual, they are focusing on the league wide claims that are sensational and untrue. The neckbeards out there are all too happy to use her words as proof that what they were saying about the WNBA has been true all along. And a lot more of these places are reporting the initial claims than are the avalanche of responses from the other players.



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 5:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This news story has a statement (finally!) from Lisa Borders, along with a video where DeLisha Milton-Jones and Mechelle Voepel are asked about Candice Wiggins' comments:

http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/18750654/wnba-president-lisa-borders-says-was-stunned-disappointed-candice-wiggins-remarks-league



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 5:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
Thankfully Borders and Nneka Ogwumike handled the situation with class unlike some people on this board and on twitter, who in line with what Glenn said, seem to have fallen into the category of what Wiggins is referring to.


I'm not on Twitter, so I can't speak to that. I don't question Candice Wiggins' statements about being bullied. There is bullying throughout sports cultures and I can believe it happens in the WNBA.

But I have great admiration for the WNBA players who have spoken out strongly against the unqualified anti-lesbian smear that Wiggins offered. And I have the same admiration for people on this board who have spoken out strongly against that smear.



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Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. She is currently a vice president of the NCAA and focuses on women's basketball.
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PostPosted: 02/23/17 5:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
This news story has a statement (finally!) from Lisa Borders, along with a video where DeLisha Milton-Jones and Mechelle Voepel are asked about Candice Wiggins' comments:

http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/18750654/wnba-president-lisa-borders-says-was-stunned-disappointed-candice-wiggins-remarks-league


The comments to this story highlight exactly what I was talking about in my previous post. The neckbeards are out in force.



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 5:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
Thankfully Borders and Nneka Ogwumike handled the situation with class unlike some people on this board and on twitter, who in line with what Glenn said, seem to have fallen into the category of what Wiggins is referring to.


If you boil it down to its essence, Candice is saying that other players bullied her because she was such a feminine beauty. That all the tomboys hated her for that reason. It has apparently never occurred to Ms. Wiggins that maybe the problem was her attitude or her behavior. It seems that she has never stopped to consider whether or not gay players had a hard time. Not once does she express any doubt that she handled everything perfectly. Not once does she seem to recognize that she could take a date anywhere with no worries while a lesbian teammate certainly could not do that in many places.

I don't feel obligated to handle a person as egocentric and lacking in empathy as Candice Wiggins with kid gloves. I think she said stupid things. I think she has a need for attention and didn't have the luck and talent to hold on to the spotlight via basketball. And she isn't a kid, so she needs to grow up and stop whining.



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 6:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

MuneravenMN wrote:
If you boil it down to its essence, Candice is saying that other players bullied her because she was such a feminine beauty.





Tell me the names Candice. I'll set them straight (no pun intended) for you.



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 8:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
MuneravenMN wrote:
Is it possible that Wiggins actually isn't okay?

I just wondered if anyone else thought she seemed off...


I actually made that observation a few posts back: I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if there's some kind of mental/emotional pathology in play here.


Where can one view this video? Thanks.


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PostPosted: 02/23/17 9:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Daaaaaamn, Chantel went in. (And she, unlike Ms. Wiggins, appears to be able to do math.)



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 9:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
Thankfully Borders and Nneka Ogwumike handled the situation with class unlike some people on this board and on twitter, who in line with what Glenn said, seem to have fallen into the category of what Wiggins is referring to.





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MuneravenMN



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 10:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Way to make me spit water all over my keyboard, Genero36.

Laughing Embarassed



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Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 10:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Why would I even think that obvious victim blaming is a bad thing for women Rolling Eyes And some y'all wonder why WBB gets shit on.

And if your argument is she is not a victim, the problem with that is, not one person on this board knows whether she is or not but some of you have then done what she says goes on in the league - who is worse.

I see we have some "Mean Girls" needing some therapy for girl on girl crime.


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PostPosted: 02/23/17 10:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Another former players comments.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2017/02/23/kayte-christensen-what-candice-wiggins-comments-about-the-wnba-says-about-her-and-the-league/


Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 11:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

AAOK423 wrote:
Another former players comments.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2017/02/23/kayte-christensen-what-candice-wiggins-comments-about-the-wnba-says-about-her-and-the-league/


Thanks for posting this. So great that all these current and former WNBA players are speaking out so powerfully.



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 11:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

MuneravenMN wrote:
Nixtreefan wrote:
Thankfully Borders and Nneka Ogwumike handled the situation with class unlike some people on this board and on twitter, who in line with what Glenn said, seem to have fallen into the category of what Wiggins is referring to.


If you boil it down to its essence, Candice is saying that other players bullied her because she was such a feminine beauty. That all the tomboys hated her for that reason. It has apparently never occurred to Ms. Wiggins that maybe the problem was her attitude or her behavior. It seems that she has never stopped to consider whether or not gay players had a hard time. Not once does she express any doubt that she handled everything perfectly. Not once does she seem to recognize that she could take a date anywhere with no worries while a lesbian teammate certainly could not do that in many places.

I don't feel obligated to handle a person as egocentric and lacking in empathy as Candice Wiggins with kid gloves. I think she said stupid things. I think she has a need for attention and didn't have the luck and talent to hold on to the spotlight via basketball. And she isn't a kid, so she needs to grow up and stop whining.


Agree with this 100%.


AAOK423



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PostPosted: 02/24/17 1:01 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
AAOK423 wrote:
Another former players comments.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2017/02/23/kayte-christensen-what-candice-wiggins-comments-about-the-wnba-says-about-her-and-the-league/


Thanks for posting this. So great that all these current and former WNBA players are speaking out so powerfully.


No problem. Its always interesting and necessary to get more than one perspective. Im glad so many have spoken up.


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PostPosted: 02/24/17 5:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Is she going to respond directly to the many different people attesting to not having seen this, players from many different background, even 2 players who believe you can pray the gay away have said they haven't seen it. Is anyone going to do a sit down and have her respond to this? Because despite so many speaking out, I'm noticing on several sites that there's no knowledge of this, at all. They want to believe it's true and they're only aware of what she's accused and accepted it as fact. A nice sit down would at least bring to light that there's a different point of view.


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PostPosted: 02/24/17 5:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Not to play the contrary, but the obvious easy response is to support the league as the active players have done... I don't expect to see Breanna Stewart or even Rebecca Lobo saying "oh yeah Candice is totally right".

Candice notes she's had players reach out to her in support and thank her. Many who probably wouldn't go forth publicly as she had....

I'll pick up a copy of that book and be interested in seeing who besides Deanna Nolan sought after her.


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PostPosted: 02/24/17 7:09 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I wonder what she sees as bullyin. For example if Nolan went extra hard in games against her and called her a bitch during those games. I dont know if i can see that as bullying. if she did those things because Wiggins is straight then its a whole other story.

Heck LJ and DMJ hated each other and always played on the edge of what is allowed and what is dirty. Some players just dont get along. I dont see that as bullying each other.. its part of the game.



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caune



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PostPosted: 02/24/17 7:25 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

AAOK423 wrote:
Another former players comments.

http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2017/02/23/kayte-christensen-what-candice-wiggins-comments-about-the-wnba-says-about-her-and-the-league/


Kayte doesn't pull her punches in this column and it's awesome!
Quote:
"There are 120 women in the WNBA. If 98% of them were gay that means there are less than 3 straight women in the entire league.
Get the hell out of here Candice. You’ve lost your damn mind. That’s just not true."

Laughing



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MuneravenMN



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PostPosted: 02/24/17 7:51 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
Why would I even think that obvious victim blaming is a bad thing for women Rolling Eyes And some y'all wonder why WBB gets shit on.

And if your argument is she is not a victim, the problem with that is, not one person on this board knows whether she is or not but some of you have then done what she says goes on in the league - who is worse.

I see we have some "Mean Girls" needing some therapy for girl on girl crime.


Do I think Wiggins had some workplace conflicts? Sure. I have. I've had people gang up on me at work. If Candice would have shared that she had workplace conflicts that really made it hard for her to enjoy playing in the WNBA, I would have great sympathy. These things happen and they are never easy to handle.

Instead, Candice used hyperbole to trash a whole group of people. She spit on the WNBA, diminishing its successes and dismissing it. Her comments showed a startling lack of critical thinking and perspective. And, as I noted previously, Wiggins, is not a youngster. She is a highly educated adult.

If you think anyone who screams "victim" is telling the objective truth, you're wrong. Quite often people holler "victim" when they ought to be hollering "consequences." People who observed Wiggins' behavior over her career are not being mean girls, they are expressing doubts based on Wiggins' own words and their observations of her behavior over time.

I should add that I DO feel sorry for Wiggins. Not because she was some victim of a lesbian jock mafia, but because I think she is struggling. She really did have lousy luck with injuries, and I am sure her life has not gone according to plan. That can be very hard. But she made her road harder with this boneheaded interview, not easier.



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Richyyy



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PostPosted: 02/24/17 7:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Always been a fan of Kayte, and she very clearly and explicitly calls bullshit on Candice. Although if she's going to point out the math flaws, it'd be nice if she'd get her own right. There's an absolute minimum of 132 in the League these days, and as most teams carry 12 it's usually over 140.



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PostPosted: 02/24/17 7:55 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

MuneravenMN wrote:
Way to make me spit water all over my keyboard, Genero36.

Laughing Embarassed


Cool



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PostPosted: 02/24/17 8:54 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howard Megdal, in The Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2017/feb/24/wnba-problem-straight-women-candice-wiggins

Quote:
Wiggins used her platform to denigrate the league, its current and former players, while opening up a sinister new line of attack on a league that, in conversations with players from every era, embraces every woman, regardless of background or sexual orientation, who can shoot or rebound or dish or protect the rim. No one has come forward to corroborate Wiggins’ claims. And that doesn’t invalidate Wiggins’ own experience. But it certainly casts doubts on the broad conclusions she made about the league as a whole.



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PostPosted: 02/24/17 9:48 am    ::: Re: Wiggins: WNBA's 'harmful' culture of bullying, jealousy Reply Reply with quote

Great story here. I recently just got back from a business trip to Los Angeles. While sitting at the bar in LA Live, I started chatting up a woman who works in the Hollywood scene. However, I could tell she was an athlete. I started talking about my love of women's athletics, especially UCONN basketball and the WNBA. She then went on to tell me that she played Volleyball at UCLA in the late 70's, early 80's and that her daughter was a USC volleyball player recently. I asked her about her daughters pro career, whether it was beach or indoor. She told me, not the beach, there is no money in it and the women are CATTY! And once you wronged one of them, it got bad! So, good luck Candice.


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PostPosted: 02/24/17 11:02 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Michelle89 wrote:
I wonder what she sees as bullyin. For example if Nolan went extra hard in games against her and called her a bitch during those games. I dont know if i can see that as bullying. if she did those things because Wiggins is straight then its a whole other story.

Heck LJ and DMJ hated each other and always played on the edge of what is allowed and what is dirty. Some players just dont get along. I dont see that as bullying each other.. its part of the game.


LJ and DMJ would have made great roommates. There would never be a dull moment in that relationship. Laughing



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PostPosted: 02/24/17 11:26 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
Why would I even think that obvious victim blaming is a bad thing for women Rolling Eyes And some y'all wonder why WBB gets shit on.

And if your argument is she is not a victim, the problem with that is, not one person on this board knows whether she is or not but some of you have then done what she says goes on in the league - who is worse.

I see we have some "Mean Girls" needing some therapy for girl on girl crime.


I get where you're trying to come from but do not agree. Here's a Wiggins Players Tribune article from 2015. She says she believes she's the league's most hated player...because of her defense.

Now we are somehow supposed to believe that orientation is the root of it when she's given an interview containing obvious hyperbole and not one past or present player or coach has corroborated her story publicly? These types of words can have consequences for the league and its players. You can't expect that people won't be disappointed, upset and angry.

http://www.theplayerstribune.com/candice-wiggins-liberty-five-toughest-players-ive-ever-guarded/



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PostPosted: 02/24/17 12:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hoops9092 wrote:
Not to play the contrary, but the obvious easy response is to support the league as the active players have done... I don't expect to see Breanna Stewart or even Rebecca Lobo saying "oh yeah Candice is totally right".

Candice notes she's had players reach out to her in support and thank her. Many who probably wouldn't go forth publicly as she had....

I'll pick up a copy of that book and be interested in seeing who besides Deanna Nolan sought after her.


Yeah, it could be difficult for current players who have had similar experiences to speak up. This is not Breanna Stewart's experience, though.

Here is Stewie's response:

Storm star Breanna Stewart supports investigation into WNBA abuse allegations

Quote:
“You have to respect Candice. And like I said, if that’s her story, it sucks that that happened. But there is a lot missing in this story. For the league to find what’s missing and put the pieces together, make more sense than just ‘I was straight, and I was bullied for it.’ There’s a lot more to it, I’m sure.”


Quote:
Stewart, the 2016 Rookie of the Year winner, said she had a “great time” with the Storm.


“I know every team isn’t like that, but in my rookie season, I felt like everyone had open arms,” Stewart said. “I’ve never heard that it was an environment where you didn’t feel safe and you didn’t feel comfortable. If anything, it’s an environment where you should feel comfortable. It’s a place where nothing matters — race, sexuality — except whether you have game.”


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PostPosted: 02/24/17 3:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Just saw Breanna Stewart's twitter, she has 13 tweets responding to Wiggins claims. She was also on The Six with Jamele Hill and Michael Smith talking about the claims but I think I missed it, if anyone has video it would be appreciated.


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PostPosted: 02/24/17 3:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWYU6Lo1CjY

Dev weighs in



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PostPosted: 02/24/17 3:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

http://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2017/2/24/14724880/breanna-stewart-candice-wiggins-wnba-bullying-ratings?yptr=yahoo&ref=yfp

Here is a link to what didn't make the broadcast cut of Stewie's appearance. Not video, but more detail on her comment.


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PostPosted: 02/24/17 3:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Hoops9092 wrote:
Not to play the contrary, but the obvious easy response is to support the league as the active players have done... I don't expect to see Breanna Stewart or even Rebecca Lobo saying "oh yeah Candice is totally right".

Candice notes she's had players reach out to her in support and thank her. Many who probably wouldn't go forth publicly as she had....

I'll pick up a copy of that book and be interested in seeing who besides Deanna Nolan sought after her.


Former players have done it too. And I don't buy her claim of players reaching out to thank her.


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PostPosted: 02/24/17 6:09 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I have been following this story from the beginning. I do have one question to ask. Where is Skylar? I thought her and Candice were best buddies. I have not heard one statement from her yet.



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PostPosted: 02/24/17 7:37 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

sigur3 wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UWYU6Lo1CjY

Dev weighs in


Her T-shirt though! Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing Laughing



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PostPosted: 02/24/17 7:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Diggins' tweeted some things that folks have attempted to attribute to the situation. Who knows though? Interestingly enough, there has been little response from folks who have actually played with her...

CP's comments on the saga: http://www.espn.com/espnradio/play?id=18757113 (start at ~33mins).

Geno with classic "Geno" comments: http://www.courant.com/sports/uconn-womens-basketball/hc-jacobs-column-geno-wiggins-0225-20170224-column.html


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PostPosted: 02/24/17 7:50 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I took issue with the "nobody cares about the WNBA" even when Ice said it in her original podcast. I cared enough to go to DC. I cared enough to cheer so loudly with my friend that Candice herself acknowledged us when the game was over.

SHE herself cared enough to shoot free throws for 90 minutes in an empty MSG after missing 3 consecutive late-game free throws in a close defeat in 2015. She cared enough to be the most aggressive defender on the team. She cared enough to cheer from the sidelines like every game meant everything to her. None of this makes any sense to me.



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PostPosted: 02/24/17 8:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
SHE herself cared enough to shoot free throws for 90 minutes in an empty MSG after missing 3 consecutive late-game free throws in a close defeat in 2015. None of this makes any sense to me.


I remember that game and felt so bad because of how hard she seemed to take missing those free throws. She was instrumental in even keeping them in the game! As a fan and supporter of the league, I'd always seen Candice as a fierce competitor and consummate teammate. She cheered so much even when she wasn't in games that a friend and I nicknamed her "SupaHype"!


NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
I took issue with the "nobody cares about the WNBA" even when Ice said it in her original podcast. I cared enough to go to DC. I cared enough to cheer so loudly with my friend that Candice herself acknowledged us when the game was over.


I hear you because I care about the league and the players. I've cared since the beginning and have been wrestling with this.... To be honest, this saga coupled with her podcasts from a few months ago make me worry about her. The podcasts were interesting but there was something that felt dark about them. I initially attributed it to the sobering feeling of hearing a player speak frankly about the business side of the league: struggling with the competition, injuries, the dramatic drop in fan support and trying to reconcile how you thought things would be versus how they are. Athletes are entertainers and some live and thrive off of the energy of the crowd ...What happens when you had this overwhelming sense of love, acceptance and support and now it's elusive? What is the impact of seriously not vibbing with your teammates... for whatever reason? What happens when you are hit with injury after injury and can no longer do your job at full capacity? When your game doesn't translate in the pros and you struggle with loosing and loose faith in your ability? What do you do after what you have given every inch of your body and your life to is gone? What happens when if for whatever reason, you don't live up your own expectations? Wiggins was 3rd in the 2008 draft after CP and Syl and still leads Stanford in many statistical categories. The expectations for her were high! What happens when you thought you'd be THAT player but ended up a 6th man and are possibly headed to your 5th team? Do you just say, "Enough" is Enough" I'm tired of being a commodity? Honestly, I thought that was why she decided to retire.

I suppose you search for the "whys"...So many athletes or any driven career professional struggles in retirement. Tully Bevaliqua tweeted this: https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/5-things-athletes-wont-admit-life-after-sport-greg-mumm which perhaps provides some perspective...

I can't discount her experiences or her perception of those experiences...because perception is reality. While so many have focused on the preposterous 98%, I was stumped by the claim that the type of bullying she spoke of is pervasive and condoned by coaches and leaders. I mean, this is extremely difficult to fathom, but I wasn't there and don't know how it may have felt to be her. I just wish all of this went down in a much more constructive and less denigrating fashion from all sides. Most of our MO's are to go up a chain of command when dealing with issues and try to handle it in house whenever possible (because of the larger implications). Now if the chain of command turns a deaf ear then..... With that said, I do recognize that we can't control people or the way they share their stories.


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