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Wiggins: WNBA's 'harmful' culture of bullying, jealousy
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MuneravenMN
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PostPosted: 02/22/17 10:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
Critical thinking, Candice. Get you some. It's in the same aisle as the clues.

I've never seen someone so adept and graceful at writing about herself... and so tone-deaf and ham-handed when discussing other people.


Her interview just went around in confusing circles, saying nothing.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 02/22/17 11:38 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Chantel Tremitiere the former WNBA point guard absolutely went off on Wiggins on Facebook. For those of you on facebook, check it out. I don't know what we are allowed to quote or whatever.



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NYL_WNBA_FAN



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 12:19 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
Howee wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
I've never read of gangs of gay men, lesbians, or people who are transgender roaming the streets and attacking and killing people perceived to be heterosexual.


I don't think anyone was saying or even implying that the flipside is totally equivalent. But just cuz "reverse discrimination" isn't equal in quantity, doesn't make it IMPOSSIBLE, either. Even if Candace is THE ONLY ONE IN THE LEAGUE EVER, she deserves to be heard, BUT....she bears a huge load of accountability. And she seems to be ignorant of the broadness of her brushstrokes....that doesn't do her credibility on favors.


No, reverse discrimination isn't impossible. Every group has some bad people in it. And even if just one player in the WNBA is bullied for any reason, that player deserves to be heard. Absolutely.

But there have indeed been statements of false equivalency on this thread. And I find them offensive.


Agree. And as you've said, some of those false equivalencies are going to be highlighted by certain types of people for the wrong reasons. And it's also bad for girls who aspire to be WNBA players. Some parents might discourage them from aspiring to that goal based on misinformation such as this.



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 1:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
Howee wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
I've never read of gangs of gay men, lesbians, or people who are transgender roaming the streets and attacking and killing people perceived to be heterosexual.


I don't think anyone was saying or even implying that the flipside is totally equivalent. But just cuz "reverse discrimination" isn't equal in quantity, doesn't make it IMPOSSIBLE, either. Even if Candace is THE ONLY ONE IN THE LEAGUE EVER, she deserves to be heard, BUT....she bears a huge load of accountability. And she seems to be ignorant of the broadness of her brushstrokes....that doesn't do her credibility on favors.


No, reverse discrimination isn't impossible. Every group has some bad people in it. And even if just one player in the WNBA is bullied for any reason, that player deserves to be heard. Absolutely.

But there have indeed been statements of false equivalency on this thread. And I find them offensive.


Agree. And as you've said, some of those false equivalencies are going to be highlighted by certain types of people for the wrong reasons. And it's also bad for girls who aspire to be WNBA players. Some parents might discourage them from aspiring to that goal based on misinformation such as this.


Thanks for this statement.

I am haunted thinking of the damage that Wiggins' unqualified lesbian smear may have on girls who love basketball or any other sport.



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MuneravenMN
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PostPosted: 02/23/17 8:16 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Watching Candice ramble and contradict herself in the follow-up to her interview, I was really disturbed. I remember her as articulate. She was anything but that in this case. She also looked a bit odd. I don't mean to denigrate her appearance. I mean she looked like a person who isn't quite okay. Maybe it was just her style, which was always different?

Is it possible that Wiggins actually isn't okay?

I just wondered if anyone else thought she seemed off...



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 8:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

When you're washed up before you turn 30, you often look for someone or something to blame for your disappointing career.



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 8:59 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Chantel Tremitiere the former WNBA point guard absolutely went off on Wiggins on Facebook. For those of you on facebook, check it out. I don't know what we are allowed to quote or whatever.


Chantel dropped the mic.



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 9:14 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
Chantel Tremitiere the former WNBA point guard absolutely went off on Wiggins on Facebook. For those of you on facebook, check it out. I don't know what we are allowed to quote or whatever.


Link Please.


Thank you @Genero36




Last edited by zune69 on 02/23/17 9:49 am; edited 4 times in total
And1



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 9:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

http://www.sfgate.com/collegesports/article/Tara-VanDerveer-defends-WNBA-from-Candice-10952346.php

Quote:
Referring to Wiggins’ contention that 98 percent of WNBA players are gay, she said, “I don’t know that math was ever Candice’s strength. That to me sounds homophobic and negative.”
--Tara Van Derveer


Tara dropped the mic.


Genero36



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 9:45 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
Link please.


Dear Candice Wiggins

I decided to take a social media timeout for the month of February. Today was the first time I decided to go on and just get caught up with the world...and the FIRST thing I see is your interview posted on a former WNBA] players' page. So I am coming back on real quick for this one.

I was a point guard in the #WNBA for the first 4 years of the league and in the first year, our slogan was WE GOT NEXT! Well, CHANTEL has "NEXT" because it is my turn to respond. There have been other responses posted and comments made by former and current players but most of those ladies are being politically correct and I commend them for that. But ANYONE who knows CHANTEL knows that "politically correct" is NOT a part of my universe. So I will tell it exactly like it is.

Your interview literally made me sick to my stomach. I don't even know you and I don't like you and it has nothing to do with your sexual preference. It does however, have everything to do with your blatant and utter disregard for an organization that provided you with 8 years of financial stability and opportunity.

I know now that you could have never played on my team because I would have been the FIRST to call you and check you on this. I guarantee the next day in practice you would have "hit the ground" on numerous occasions, not for being heterosexual, but for being stupid.

I can PROMISE you one thing. Lesbians, whether they are in the league or not, don't really hate heterosexuals. They DO hate homophobic people. I will not make any assumptions about what kind of teammate you were. Making assumptions has obviously landed you in the inauspicious position you are now. Lesbians don't have time to hate on or bully anyone else because they are too busy fighting against the people who hate on or bully them.

I find it interesting that your interview happened AFTER your career. You never mentioned telling anyone about your problem while you were playing. Based on your extremely incorrect "98% of the league being lesbian" my question is whether you asked the ONLY 1.9 other straight women in the league at that time if they had the same issue. And since you like to spew out false percentages, let me show you what some factual numbers can do.

5,821,016,750. 2,852,298,207. 80. 50. .000001753%

1st is how many people were in the world in 1996. 2nd is approximately how many were women. 3rd is how many women were drafted on to WNBA active rosters in year one. 4th is how many of them started. The last number is a percentage of women in the WORLD who fought their way to start in the first EVER game of the WNBA. Every one of those women fought that hard and "threw people to the ground" so YOU could have your opportunity a decade later. Although I don't take into account the actual playing age of the women in the world, I figure with a Stanford degree, you will be able to understand my point.....which is:

The reason you were "thrown to the ground" in practice wasn't because of your sexuality. Female ATHLETES were fighting other female ATHLETES for a JOB, a livelihood, legacies, championships and their dreams. The LAST thing ANYONE is worried about during a professional sports fight is someone else's sexuality.

And if you would like MORE numbers, I suppose the 18% FG you shot getting your 1.6 points in 13.9 minutes a game your second to last year was because you were being bullied by lesbian teammates? I will raise your 98% by 2% and tell you with 100% certainty that those teammates weren't having conversations in their condos about purposely "throwing Candice to the ground" because you are heterosexual. You have to do better than that.

I am especially offended that you were a point guard. This venom you have spewed doesn't prove to me how heterosexual you are. What it DOES prove to me is what kind of leader as a point guard you were NOT.

Over the past 20 years, the WNBA has made dreams come true for roughly 1,000 women. For you to publicly try to diminish both the league and its players is simply a futile attempt for you to regain some semblance of relevancy. The opportunity to play in that league and wear that WNBA patch on someone's chest extends beyond the court as well. In fact, if it were not for the WNBA, I would not be 6 months away from getting my PhD and having Dr. in front of my name. Maybe you want to sell more of your books when it comes out. But young lady, your vain attempt at grasping for straws by trying to trash the very league that has given you this voice is now making you more irrelevant.

The craziest thing about you doing this, is talking about where you want to be in the future. Do you not think the USA Volleyball team will now hesitate in allowing you a tryout if it thinks you will trash that organization when you don't make the squad? You are still a sore loser. Your interview just made you a public one.

Your voice now means nothing though because you waited so long to throw your rocks. I would suggest the next time you are given a public stage to complain, you approach it with a little more class and humility and less hatred. Do your homework. Get your facts right. And then, make a telephone call to some of these greats: Lisa Leslie, Sheryl Swoopes, Cynthia Cooper, Rebecca Lobo, Delisha Milton-Jones, Kym Hampton, Chamique Holdsclaw, Elena Della Donne, Skylar Diggins, Rushia Brown, Candace Parker and Maya Moore. Ask them how many times they were told to look more like men and cut their hair. Ask them if they would have become so successful by having to become someone they aren't. You'll probably get another number. 0.

Candice, go SIT DOWN somewhere. Instead of trashing the WNBA, try reaching out to them and ask how you can become a catalyst for change by helping to make the league better for women for the next 20 years.

The next time you attempt to publicly tear down the legacy of an organization or its players because of your inability to handle the competitiveness and responsibility of being a professional athlete...clean off that dirty mirror in front of you. I will make sure I get my hands on a copy of your book when it comes out but only to burn it....kind of like the way you just burned that bridge.

BlackSportsOnline - Since you only published ONE side...try publishing THIS!

I'll see y'all back on social media March 1st.

Wasn't My Experience. #WNBA

Chantel

https://www.facebook.com/chanteltremitiere3/posts/10210161323242686



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 10:07 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Give it a "like" (if you do).

https://www.facebook.com/chanteltremitiere3/posts/10210161323242686[/quote]


Howee



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 1:01 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

MuneravenMN wrote:
Is it possible that Wiggins actually isn't okay?

I just wondered if anyone else thought she seemed off...


I actually made that observation a few posts back: I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if there's some kind of mental/emotional pathology in play here.



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 1:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
MuneravenMN wrote:
Is it possible that Wiggins actually isn't okay?

I just wondered if anyone else thought she seemed off...


I actually made that observation a few posts back: I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if there's some kind of mental/emotional pathology in play here.


You have to keep in mind that this woman was the third draftee, behind Candace Parker and Sylvia Fowles, of one of the best draft classes in 2008. She was doing very well, indeed, her rookie season, breaking Chamique's Holdsclaw's record for most 20+ point games off the bench (six in 2006) with seven 20+ contests. She earned a spot on the All-Rookie Team, scoring the WNBA's highest scoring average by a bench player (15.7). She led the Lynx with assists (3.0) and ranked 20th in the WNBA in that regard. She also ranked 7th in the league in steals (1.80).

Then she was unable to play the last two games due to a torn lateral meniscus in her right knee, and I don't think her game was ever the same after that. I don't believe she ever made a full recovery from that bad knee. I wonder if there has been a gradual build up of frustration over the fact that she never was able to come close to truly reaching her full potential. She was reduced from a budding star to merely a role player. Some can handle that forced transition with greater ease than others.

How this plays into the perceived bullying and other 'complaints' I am not too sure of, whether as added frustration or convenient excuses or whatever lies in-between.



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 3:10 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Thankfully Borders and Nneka Ogwumike handled the situation with class unlike some people on this board and on twitter, who in line with what Glenn said, seem to have fallen into the category of what Wiggins is referring to.


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PostPosted: 02/23/17 5:12 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
Thankfully Borders and Nneka Ogwumike handled the situation with class...

Borders hasn't handled the situation at all. She and the league have been regrettably silent.

If you read what the different websites and articles are saying, they are not focusing on what happened to one individual, they are focusing on the league wide claims that are sensational and untrue. The neckbeards out there are all too happy to use her words as proof that what they were saying about the WNBA has been true all along. And a lot more of these places are reporting the initial claims than are the avalanche of responses from the other players.



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 5:20 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

This news story has a statement (finally!) from Lisa Borders, along with a video where DeLisha Milton-Jones and Mechelle Voepel are asked about Candice Wiggins' comments:

http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/18750654/wnba-president-lisa-borders-says-was-stunned-disappointed-candice-wiggins-remarks-league



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Bob Lamm



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 5:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
Thankfully Borders and Nneka Ogwumike handled the situation with class unlike some people on this board and on twitter, who in line with what Glenn said, seem to have fallen into the category of what Wiggins is referring to.


I'm not on Twitter, so I can't speak to that. I don't question Candice Wiggins' statements about being bullied. There is bullying throughout sports cultures and I can believe it happens in the WNBA.

But I have great admiration for the WNBA players who have spoken out strongly against the unqualified anti-lesbian smear that Wiggins offered. And I have the same admiration for people on this board who have spoken out strongly against that smear.



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Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships. Now she is part of the Senior Management Team of UNICEF USA.
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PostPosted: 02/23/17 5:33 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
This news story has a statement (finally!) from Lisa Borders, along with a video where DeLisha Milton-Jones and Mechelle Voepel are asked about Candice Wiggins' comments:

http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/18750654/wnba-president-lisa-borders-says-was-stunned-disappointed-candice-wiggins-remarks-league


The comments to this story highlight exactly what I was talking about in my previous post. The neckbeards are out in force.



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MuneravenMN
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PostPosted: 02/23/17 5:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
Thankfully Borders and Nneka Ogwumike handled the situation with class unlike some people on this board and on twitter, who in line with what Glenn said, seem to have fallen into the category of what Wiggins is referring to.


If you boil it down to its essence, Candice is saying that other players bullied her because she was such a feminine beauty. That all the tomboys hated her for that reason. It has apparently never occurred to Ms. Wiggins that maybe the problem was her attitude or her behavior. It seems that she has never stopped to consider whether or not gay players had a hard time. Not once does she express any doubt that she handled everything perfectly. Not once does she seem to recognize that she could take a date anywhere with no worries while a lesbian teammate certainly could not do that in many places.

I don't feel obligated to handle a person as egocentric and lacking in empathy as Candice Wiggins with kid gloves. I think she said stupid things. I think she has a need for attention and didn't have the luck and talent to hold on to the spotlight via basketball. And she isn't a kid, so she needs to grow up and stop whining.



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Genero36



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 6:14 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

MuneravenMN wrote:
If you boil it down to its essence, Candice is saying that other players bullied her because she was such a feminine beauty.





Tell me the names Candice. I'll set them straight (no pun intended) for you.



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 8:43 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
MuneravenMN wrote:
Is it possible that Wiggins actually isn't okay?

I just wondered if anyone else thought she seemed off...


I actually made that observation a few posts back: I wouldn't be the least bit surprised if there's some kind of mental/emotional pathology in play here.


Where can one view this video? Thanks.


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PostPosted: 02/23/17 9:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Daaaaaamn, Chantel went in. (And she, unlike Ms. Wiggins, appears to be able to do math.)



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 9:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nixtreefan wrote:
Thankfully Borders and Nneka Ogwumike handled the situation with class unlike some people on this board and on twitter, who in line with what Glenn said, seem to have fallen into the category of what Wiggins is referring to.





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PostPosted: 02/23/17 10:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Way to make me spit water all over my keyboard, Genero36.

Laughing Embarassed



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Nixtreefan



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PostPosted: 02/23/17 10:44 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Why would I even think that obvious victim blaming is a bad thing for women Rolling Eyes And some y'all wonder why WBB gets shit on.

And if your argument is she is not a victim, the problem with that is, not one person on this board knows whether she is or not but some of you have then done what she says goes on in the league - who is worse.

I see we have some "Mean Girls" needing some therapy for girl on girl crime.


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