RebKell's Junkie Boards
Board Junkies Forums
 
Log in Register FAQ Memberlist Search RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index

Wiggins: WNBA's 'harmful' culture of bullying, jealousy
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
patsweetpat



Joined: 14 Jul 2010
Posts: 1903
Location: Culver City, CA


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/21/17 8:32 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WfanFrJmp wrote:
Goodness, this whole thing is just....sad all around....

Great response from Imani.


It is sad, but the thoughtful responses from women like Boyette and Curry and others are the silver lining in all this. The dialogue matters, even if many of us could think of better, more constructive ways for the dialogue to've gotten started.

I myself can't personally affirm or dispute anything Wiggins says, with the exception of her declaration that nobody cares about the WNBA. I know that she's wrong about that, because I fucking care about the WNBA, and so does my 12-year-old daughter, who's been accompanying me to Sparks games for about 8 years now, and who has seen with her own eyes the amazing women who've played there (and coached there, reffed there, administered there, and even sometimes owned the actual franchise during the years in question). I'm so happy that the WNBA exists for my daughter to see those women in action, and neither she nor I have ever once given a poop what gender of person those women are or aren't sexually attracted to in their off-time. It simply doesn't matter to us. We just love to watch 'em ball.


justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 6477
Location: Northfield, MN


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/21/17 8:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

MuneravenMN wrote:
But there is no way there is some lesbian cabal that comprises 98% of WNBA players and goes around picking on the poor straight girls who play basketball.


That's it exactly. I believe Wiggins when she says she was bullied. It happens, and locker rooms are ripe for that sort of cliquish behavior.

And it is very likely that she believes that the reason for this is because she's straight. We have no reason to not take her at her word for how she felt. However, once she extrapolates beyond herself and her own experiences the evidence and logic gets very thin. Her massive exaggeration of 98% and the testimony of numerous other heterosexual players all suggest that her experiences aren't the norm.

And when you do make those sorts of sweeping charges, you really do need to be able to back it up.



_________________
Covfefe when the walls fell.
GlennMacGrady



Joined: 03 Jan 2005
Posts: 3939
Location: Heisenberg


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/21/17 9:23 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Wiggins simply expressed her honest viewpoint and perceptions based on her experiences. For that, she is the object of hostility and various forms of personal diminishment here . . . a reaction that lends truth to her story.
NYL_WNBA_FAN



Joined: 28 May 2007
Posts: 11436



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/21/17 9:31 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
For that, she is the object of hostility and various forms of personal diminishment here . . . a reaction that lends truth to her story.


Why does it lend truth?



_________________
The poster formerly known as LibWNBAFan.
AAOK423



Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 1107



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/21/17 9:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Wiggins simply expressed her honest viewpoint and perceptions based on her experiences. For that, she is the object of hostility and various forms of personal diminishment here . . . a reaction that lends truth to her story.


She's expressing her "honest viewpoints," that's fine. Imani Boyette and Currie and Bone and Dev Peters and so many others are expressing their honest viewpoints and perceptions based on their experiences, that seem to greatly differ from Wiggins. Is that not fine? And people here are expressing their honest viewpoints. If Wiggins can have a voice and trash the WNBA, why can't fans and former and current players defend the WNBA?


justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 6477
Location: Northfield, MN


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/21/17 9:40 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Wiggins simply expressed her honest viewpoint and perceptions based on her experiences.

Except she didn't "simply" do that. If she had just told her personal story, no one would be upset. But she made sweeping generalizations about the league as a whole and so other players who she is attempting to speak for are sharing their own experiences as evidence that her generalizations and assumptions are wrong. And if you are going to make sweeping claims about a group as a whole, and you don't back it up, you are likely to face hostility.



_________________
Covfefe when the walls fell.
hyperetic



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 5046
Location: Fayetteville


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/21/17 9:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Its spreading about at fast as the Glory and Brittney thing...
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 1956
Location: New York City


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/21/17 10:03 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
Wiggins simply expressed her honest viewpoint and perceptions based on her experiences.

Except she didn't "simply" do that. If she had just told her personal story, no one would be upset. But she made sweeping generalizations about the league as a whole and so other players who she is attempting to speak for are sharing their own experiences as evidence that her generalizations and assumptions are wrong. And if you are going to make sweeping claims about a group as a whole, and you don't back it up, you are likely to face hostility.


Absolutely.

What Wiggins did has terrible consequences not only for WNBA players but for women and girls throughout the sports world.



_________________
Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.
justinabina



Joined: 19 May 2014
Posts: 120



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/21/17 10:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

patsweetpat wrote:
WfanFrJmp wrote:
Goodness, this whole thing is just....sad all around....

Great response from Imani.


It is sad, but the thoughtful responses from women like Boyette and Curry and others are the silver lining in all this. The dialogue matters, even if many of us could think of better, more constructive ways for the dialogue to've gotten started.


Agreed. I just read Boyette's response - it's wonderful. & thank you for your own personal response. Sounds like you're an awesome dad.

There are several great posts in this thread from justintyme and others - thoughtful, patient and generous efforts to understand and offer perspective. The article's generalizations and division of gay/straight players were disappointing... but this dialogue is quite heartening.


Richard 77



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 3728
Location: Lake Mills, Wisconsin


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/21/17 10:42 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Wiggins said she was disheartened by a culture in the WNBA that encouraged women to look and act like men in the NBA.
“It comes to a point where you get compared so much to the men, you come to mirror the men,’ she said. “So many people think you have to look like a man, play like a man to get respect. I was the opposite. I was proud to a be a woman, and it didn’t fit well in that culture.”
Of the league as a whole, Wiggins said, “Nobody cares about the WNBA. Viewership is minimal. Ticket sales are very low. They give away tickets and people don’t come to the game.”


Part of her first statement I think is true. People tend to compare the women's game to the men's game too much instead of basing their opinion on the league's own merits and criteria. As for the 'looking like a man' statement, when a team, the league or a certain former player suggests that WNBA players should look more feminine, there tends to be more backlash by the fans then there is for that suggestion's support.

As for the 'Nobody cares' statement, she had to be aware that there WERE fans in the seats during the games she played in. The 'Nobody cares' statement is an outright lie. The reason many don't care about the WNBA is because no one teaches others how to care about the WNBA. The league hardly does, it's parent, the NBA hardly does, and its fans hardly do. One has to be taught how to love something. Or someone. We live in a culture now that has little attention span, and if something isn't exciting, we quit immediately from that something and we make up convenient excuses as to why not to bother. The WNBA. It's boring. The men's game is more exciting, it's more athletic. It's women. Too many lesbians.

Too many convenient excuses.

If she'd have really cared about her job, she'd know these things. And if the players really had a clue, maybe they'd learn how screwed they and their fans are getting by Rittenhouse and their trading card sets.



_________________
If you cannot inspire yourself to read a book about women's basketball, or any book about women's sports, you cannot inspire any young girl or boy to write a book about them. http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/Richardstrek
Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 15150
Location: Queens


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/21/17 10:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Is it possible that people were assholes to her? Sure. Someone brought up Deanna Nolan earlier, either here or on Twitter, and God knows Tweety (and her tag-team partner Elaine Powell) was never the soul of diplomacy. Ask Cappie about that one.

Do I think it had anything to do with her being straight? Not simply because of it, but it depends on how she presented herself and how she interacted with her teammates and colleagues. If she came in acting like she deserved more because she's straight and feminine (attractiveness is a YMMV stat, let's not even), then yeah, I can see people telling her off.

Do I think there's a possibility that she walked in thinking that her shit didn't stink, and got her nose out of joint when someone informed her that her roses did in fact smell like doo-doo? Yep.

Do I think it's odd that either she alone, of all the straight players who have been in the league, has been the target of such terrible behavior, or that other straight players have been shamed into silence? Yeah. And we've seen responses from straight players saying, essentially, WTF. (Hell, I even went and asked one.)

Do I think it's more likely people were calling her bitch because of an attitude like this:

Quote:
I call myself “The WNBA’s Most Wanted.” As in, I’m wanted: dead or alive. I’m the villain. The other team hates me. People love playing with me, but I know they hate playing against me. If the WNBA ran a player poll, “Who do you hate the most?” — I know I’d be No. 1. I know that.


On the court? Yeeeeeeeeah.

And I think it's possible she misread situations and made assumptions.

Then there's getting into the part of her interview that seems to have most people up in arms, which is the bit with the sweeping generalization and the bullshit numbers. Because that's what outlets who don't actually know what WNBA stands for are going to pick up on. That's the harmful stereotype that's once again going to spread, stronger now that it seems to be coming from the inside.

And going to volleyball? Yep, there's reinforcing another bunch of stereotypes about "dangerous" basketball and "safe" volleyball. (If she really thinks she's going to be free of jealousy and cliques and bullying in volleyball, especially coming into it fairly late in her career, as a second sport... girl, byeeeee.)

It's also possible we're missing a giant piece of the puzzle, but I don't find it bloody likely.

(Charde Houston's Facebook comments, as quoted before, aren't helping, but at the same time I'm grabbing my imaginary popcorn. And also marveling at intersectionality in action {socioeconomic status, how does it work?!} when Charde points out the difference in their upbringing.)



_________________
We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.
PhoenixxLily
I Voted


Joined: 17 Aug 2010
Posts: 3864
Location: South Carolina, United States, North America, Earth


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/21/17 10:47 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

and Lobo weighs in...

Quote:
"I know I've been out of the league for a long time, but I can tell you that it [Wiggins recollections] was nothing like my experience as a heterosexual in the WNBA. I couldn't relate to what she was saying at all," Lobo said. "Covering the league, being around the league, having friends in the league who still play in the league, having frank conversations with those who are still in the league, I have never heard anyone say they've had those similar experiences or that they've witnessed anything similar to what Candice is talking about. But then again, that's her perception of what her experience was.

"But I can say that her assessment that 98 percent of the players in the league are gay is absurd. That's just ridiculous. Did I have teammates on my teams that were lesbians? Yes. But there was a mix of all different types of women. It wasn't even something you talked about. It was more, there's so-and-so with her girlfriend or so-and-so with her boyfriend and you would all go out to dinner together. [Players' sexuality] was a complete nonissue on all the teams I played on."


http://www.courant.com/sports/basketball/hc-wiggins-wnba-0222-20170221-story.html

i found Wiggins' article to be a little more than disappointing. this is the first time i've heard of bullying in the W. that doesn't mean it hasn't or doesn't happen, just that that's not the sort of thing that stays quiet nor the type of thing you put up with for 8 years. i'm not buying it and i don't have much energy for giving the benefit of the doubt. it has everything to do with why she says she was bullied. and that she says that there is a nature of wanting everyone to be gay or present themselves as gay... really? in the wnba? the league that from day one desperately tried to push everyone in the closet and promoted that feminine ideal flat out. no. true, i was young when the league started and i missed alot but all i can think about is swoopes' situation. it's only very recently that the league has started to embrace all of its players but i still get the feeling that they'd rather no one comment on it for the same reasons that it wanted that hetero-normative look in the first place.

(Hey y'all!! i signed in after 2 years just to comment on this thread... i knew it would be here and i knew the commentary would be exemplary Very Happy )



_________________
the chick formerly known as LilyJadeRose
Tumblr: http://phoenixxlily.tumblr.com
Buy My Book: http://www.lulu.com/spotlight/NadiyahWalton843
miller40



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 961



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/21/17 11:06 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I searched Twitter to see what people were saying and saw the journalist has a new follow up up-
http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/sd-sp-wiggins-20170221-story.html

It's striking to me she doesn't believe this has caused any extra harm to the WNBA.


Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 15150
Location: Queens


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/21/17 11:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Critical thinking, Candice. Get you some. It's in the same aisle as the clues.

I've never seen someone so adept and graceful at writing about herself... and so tone-deaf and ham-handed when discussing other people.



_________________
We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.
sigur3



Joined: 18 Jun 2013
Posts: 5619
Location: Chicago-ish


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/21/17 11:36 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Quote:
Wiggins is currently writing a book based on what she documented in journals during her WNBA career. She said her current comments are merely the “first layer” of what she has to say.
'

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz



_________________
chicago sky tankwagon 2017
jap



Joined: 01 Apr 2007
Posts: 7151



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 12:23 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I guess Wiggy never seriously considered the WNBA Players Association as an outlet for her concerns. She only played with the current president of the WNBAPA for an entire season, and Nneka appears to be so easily approachable.

Kudos to Boyette for graciously demanding more accountability from Ice on facts and more appreciation for a league that helped to increase her popularity and earning power.



_________________
Regards,
J A P
zune69



Joined: 27 May 2010
Posts: 5967



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 5:43 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/

Quote:
Saying her comments “freed my spirit,” Wiggins told the San Diego Union-Tribune that she received positive reaction from those close to her, as well as private thanks from other WNBA players who Wiggins said experienced what she did.


Quote:
“It was my way to illustrate the isolation that I felt personally,” Wiggins said.“I felt like the 2 percent versus the 98 percent. It felt that way to me. And it’s not just the players. It was the coaches. It was the leaders.”

The WNBA has declined to respond to Wiggins’ comments.

Nneka Ogwumike, president of the WNBA Players Association, said in a statement: “Whether one agrees or disagrees with the comments made recently by a former player, or whether one has seen or experienced anything like what she has described, anything that impacts an inclusive culture should be taken seriously.”


One thing I find odd is that people are quoting players like M.Bass/C.Anderson(Holy Rollers/anti gay),and R.Lobo(Geno/Parker/Ogwumike Olympic fiasco) as credible sources for information.Lobo gets her paychecks from espn/wnba.


MuneravenMN
Champion Tipster


Joined: 01 Jun 2008
Posts: 3860



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 7:35 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

GlennMacGrady wrote:
Wiggins simply expressed her honest viewpoint and perceptions based on her experiences. For that, she is the object of hostility and various forms of personal diminishment here . . . a reaction that lends truth to her story.


So if I ride the bus and a bunch of Black teenagers routinely yell insults and curse and misbehave, is it then okay for me to proclaim that 98% of bus riders are Black people who bully poor White ladies like me?

OR can I tell the story of my unpleasant bus rides without impugning all bus riders, all Black people, and painting myself as a victim?

How we tell our stories matters.



_________________
Winning takes talent; to repeat takes character.
--John Wooden
Skyfan22



Joined: 12 Aug 2013
Posts: 186



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 9:36 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

To me, it doesn't sound like reflections of a victim. It sounds more like the bitter, jealous rantings of a golden-spooned egomaniac. She was tops from birth through college in her sunny California world. I remember some commentary during the final stating that if Stanford had won she might actually go 1st in the draft. Her status in the WNBA never came close to where she was in college. I think she's a spoiled little b***** who is ill equipped to process not being WNBA royalty. For me, Granting her musings as her truth is allowing too much. Either 1, she is trying to garner attention grabbing via manufactured nonsense or 2, she seriously needs to be awakened from her disillusionment of deserving adoration from the masses.

there is more I disagree with in her statements. Granted, I'm an old Queen, but I've never found her beautiful. Maybe it's because of my distaste for horse teeth and a snaggletooth. Maybe it's because she's too tiny or disproportionate. Regardless, many other players, suspected and known lesbians even in the WNBA, I find much prettier.

Finally, by stating this stuff, could there be a cause of action for the WNBA in libel/slander? Some statements are blatantly false. Some are opinion but still very colored to mislead. Is that a question of fact to be determined in court. I also, don't know if I've ever heard of an organization making a defamation claim. Is that possible? There seem to be legal scholars here who would know. Any thoughts?


Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 15150
Location: Queens


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 9:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

zune69 wrote:
One thing I find odd is that people are quoting players like M.Bass/C.Anderson(Holy Rollers/anti gay),and R.Lobo(Geno/Parker/Ogwumike Olympic fiasco) as credible sources for information.Lobo gets her paychecks from espn/wnba.


In some ways, Anderson's past stances make her a more credible source- after all, wouldn't she have been a target if Wiggins is on the money about the scary lesbians menacing the pretty straight girls?

I find it interesting that Wiggins claims she's gotten thanks from other players who have suffered this... but no one else has corroborated any of the behavior she describes, and the spectrum of players who have WTF'd it covers pretty much every year and every team.

Somehow I get the feeling that this is going to end in religion.



_________________
We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.


Last edited by Queenie on 02/22/17 9:50 am; edited 1 time in total
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 1956
Location: New York City


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 9:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Skyfan22 wrote:
To me, it doesn't sound like reflections of a victim. It sounds more like the bitter, jealous rantings of a golden-spooned egomaniac. She was tops from birth through college in her sunny California world. I remember some commentary during the final stating that if Stanford had won she might actually go 1st in the draft. Her status in the WNBA never came close to where she was in college. I think she's a spoiled little b***** who is ill equipped to process not being WNBA royalty. For me, Granting her musings as her truth is allowing too much. Either 1, she is trying to garner attention grabbing via manufactured nonsense or 2, she seriously needs to be awakened from her disillusionment of deserving adoration from the masses.

there is more I disagree with in her statements. Granted, I'm an old Queen, but I've never found her beautiful. Maybe it's because of my distaste for horse teeth and a snaggletooth. Maybe it's because she's too tiny or disproportionate. Regardless, many other players, suspected and known lesbians even in the WNBA, I find much prettier.

Finally, by stating this stuff, could there be a cause of action for the WNBA in libel/slander? Some statements are blatantly false. Some are opinion but still very colored to mislead. Is that a question of fact to be determined in court. I also, don't know if I've ever heard of an organization making a defamation claim. Is that possible? There seem to be legal scholars here who would know. Any thoughts?


I'm not a legal scholar, but I believe it would be a disaster for the WNBA to bring any type of case against Candice Wiggins. Homophobes in the media and homophobic organizations would come rushing to her defense. We would see an endless array of "alternative facts" (like the 98% figure she has offered). Win or lose, any legal action against Wiggins would bring far more negative publicity for the WNBA than her recent statements or her book.



_________________
Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.
bryan_february_



Joined: 28 Aug 2015
Posts: 390
Location: USA


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 10:04 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Skyfan22 wrote:
Granted, I'm an old Queen, but I've never found her beautiful. Maybe it's because of my distaste for horse teeth and a snaggletooth. Maybe it's because she's too tiny or disproportionate. Regardless, many other players, suspected and known lesbians even in the WNBA, I find much prettier.

That was uncalled for. It's alarming how many people are responding to her claims of being bullied with personal insults and ridicule. I think the way Imani responded is the right approach to take to this.



_________________
Indiana Fever
Carol Anne



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1482
Location: Seattle


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 10:31 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Great column by Mechelle Voepel, who tried to talk with Wiggins.
http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/18736607/wnba-players-dispute-candice-wiggins-controversial-allegations

So when I contacted her, I wanted to ask: Did she report this alleged abuse to team management, human resources or the WNBA's front office? She played for four franchises in her eight-year career, and the coaching staffs for those teams were diverse, a mix of men and women, gay and straight people, and those of different races. Did they all turn a blind eye to the abuse that Wiggins alleges? Did they encourage it? Did she talk to other players about it?

But Wiggins told me she "was not comfortable" talking about her personal life, and that she hoped to publish a memoir that would detail these experiences and other issues. She also said she spoke to the Union-Tribune "as though they are an old friend."


Skyfan22



Joined: 12 Aug 2013
Posts: 186



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 10:37 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

So thankful for your opinion as to how I should approach the princess and her tantrum. I believe her behavior warrants a different approach.

If this is her reality. Then someone needs to wake her ass up. She's not all that, she's not a princess, she needs to grow up and stop being a spoiled little b****


toad455



Joined: 16 Nov 2005
Posts: 14570



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 10:47 am    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Carol Anne wrote:
Great column by Mechelle Voepel, who tried to talk with Wiggins.
http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/18736607/wnba-players-dispute-candice-wiggins-controversial-allegations

So when I contacted her, I wanted to ask: Did she report this alleged abuse to team management, human resources or the WNBA's front office? She played for four franchises in her eight-year career, and the coaching staffs for those teams were diverse, a mix of men and women, gay and straight people, and those of different races. Did they all turn a blind eye to the abuse that Wiggins alleges? Did they encourage it? Did she talk to other players about it?

But Wiggins told me she "was not comfortable" talking about her personal life, and that she hoped to publish a memoir that would detail these experiences and other issues. She also said she spoke to the Union-Tribune "as though they are an old friend."


she's clearly trying to dodge some bullets now. I'm assuming she's lost a lot of friends due to this & is clearly looking to make some $$$ in her retirement days.



_________________
LET'S GO LIBERTY!!!!!!

Twitter: @TBRBWAY
Queenie



Joined: 18 Nov 2004
Posts: 15150
Location: Queens


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 12:24 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

bryan_february_ wrote:
Skyfan22 wrote:
Granted, I'm an old Queen, but I've never found her beautiful. Maybe it's because of my distaste for horse teeth and a snaggletooth. Maybe it's because she's too tiny or disproportionate. Regardless, many other players, suspected and known lesbians even in the WNBA, I find much prettier.

That was uncalled for. It's alarming how many people are responding to her claims of being bullied with personal insults and ridicule. I think the way Imani responded is the right approach to take to this.


Agreed. She's never been my type either, but that's not relevant to the discussion. As both Currie and Boyette brought up, perception is important; if she perceives herself as attractive, that's how she's going to approach a situation.



_________________
We must not confuse dissent with disloyalty.
Carol Anne



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1482
Location: Seattle


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 12:27 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tod Leonard, the San Diego UT's golf reporter, did three Candice Wiggins stories in 2 days. Will she have anything left for her book?

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/sports/sd-sp-wiggins-20170218-story.html


adamj95



Joined: 09 May 2014
Posts: 1120



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 12:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I don't buy that she was bullied. Does that mean Whalen and Wright were also bullied on the Lynx for being straight? This just gives the people who dislike the WNBA and women's basketball in general fuel to light the fire to their anti-wbb rhetoric. Sad that I used to like her as a player.


Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 1956
Location: New York City


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 12:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

toad455 wrote:
Carol Anne wrote:
Great column by Mechelle Voepel, who tried to talk with Wiggins.
http://www.espn.com/wnba/story/_/id/18736607/wnba-players-dispute-candice-wiggins-controversial-allegations

So when I contacted her, I wanted to ask: Did she report this alleged abuse to team management, human resources or the WNBA's front office? She played for four franchises in her eight-year career, and the coaching staffs for those teams were diverse, a mix of men and women, gay and straight people, and those of different races. Did they all turn a blind eye to the abuse that Wiggins alleges? Did they encourage it? Did she talk to other players about it?

But Wiggins told me she "was not comfortable" talking about her personal life, and that she hoped to publish a memoir that would detail these experiences and other issues. She also said she spoke to the Union-Tribune "as though they are an old friend."


she's clearly trying to dodge some bullets now. I'm assuming she's lost a lot of friends due to this & is clearly looking to make some $$$ in her retirement days.


These latest comments from Wiggins are an outrageous evasion. She's "not comfortable" talking about her personal life? How did her personal life become a public issue? Oh, yeh, she MADE IT a public issue. She spoke to the San Diego newspaper "as though they are an old friend"? Utter crap.



_________________
Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.
Genero36



Joined: 24 Apr 2005
Posts: 8427



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 1:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
These latest comments from Wiggins are an outrageous evasion. She's "not comfortable" talking about her personal life? How did her personal life become a public issue? Oh, yeh, she MADE IT a public issue. She spoke to the San Diego newspaper "as though they are an old friend"? Utter crap.


Yes. Signs of an habitual liar.



_________________
I'm all for the separation of church and hate.
Shades



Joined: 10 Jul 2006
Posts: 44369



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 1:30 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
She's "not comfortable" talking about her personal life? How did her personal life become a public issue?


Not comfortable talking to Mechelle Voepel, who appeared to come at her with all the warmth of a district attorney.



_________________
Nnekalonians 1:14 - Thou shalt not accept that which is not earned
jmpenn90



Joined: 09 May 2008
Posts: 420



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 1:56 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
She's "not comfortable" talking about her personal life? How did her personal life become a public issue?


Not comfortable talking to Mechelle Voepel, who appeared to come at her with all the warmth of a district attorney.

It doesn't have anything to do with Voepel. She wants to keep the details to herself so people buy the book. Or she didn't want to answer that specific question because the answer hurts her credibility if she never reported to anyone.


Skyfan22



Joined: 12 Aug 2013
Posts: 186



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 1:59 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Queenie wrote:
bryan_february_ wrote:
Skyfan22 wrote:
Granted, I'm an old Queen, but I've never found her beautiful. Maybe it's because of my distaste for horse teeth and a snaggletooth. Maybe it's because she's too tiny or disproportionate. Regardless, many other players, suspected and known lesbians even in the WNBA, I find much prettier.

That was uncalled for. It's alarming how many people are responding to her claims of being bullied with personal insults and ridicule. I think the way Imani responded is the right approach to take to this.


Agreed. She's never been my type either, but that's not relevant to the discussion. As both Currie and Boyette brought up, perception is important; if she perceives herself as attractive, that's how she's going to approach a situation.


Her statements as a whole are akin to that of a tantrum thrown by a toddler. Coddling a tantrum of a toddler leads to a spoiled brat.

Coddling a spoiled brat leads to an entitled bitch.

Coddling an entitled bitch leads to Candice Wiggins.

She wants to call herself beautiful while implying, not so subtly, that the rest of the WNBA is not, invites criticism of her statement. I feel it should be stated loudly that there are a lot more women in the WNBA that are attractive and considered by a great many people to be more attractive then herself. Even those that appear to her as more manly may be considered more attractive. Maybe if she was not coddled and instead was educated about her ignorance it would change her entitled bitch perception.


Nerd2



Joined: 06 Jun 2010
Posts: 7335



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 2:05 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Shades wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
She's "not comfortable" talking about her personal life? How did her personal life become a public issue?


Not comfortable talking to Mechelle Voepel, who appeared to come at her with all the warmth of a district attorney.


I've talked to her multiple times. She's very personable and approachable. No way was it as a result of her tone.


Carol Anne



Joined: 09 Apr 2005
Posts: 1482
Location: Seattle


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 2:11 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Nerd2 wrote:
Shades wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
She's "not comfortable" talking about her personal life? How did her personal life become a public issue?


Not comfortable talking to Mechelle Voepel, who appeared to come at her with all the warmth of a district attorney.


I've talked to her multiple times. She's very personable and approachable. No way was it as a result of her tone.
Mechelle is a journalist.
They ask questions (who, what, where, why, when and how).
The golf reporter apparently just transcribed what Wiggins said.


Nerd2



Joined: 06 Jun 2010
Posts: 7335



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 2:19 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

She claims she was bullied. Now she's not willing to speak any further because it is "personal?" That is pissing even more people off: leveling a very nasty accusation and not presenting any avenue to argue with it.

She was on 4 team. Her second team was supposed to be the Diggins and Wiggins Show with her good friend. Are you telling me that her friend bullied her too?

Anyone who buys that book should make sure they have a nice cheese to go with it.


justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 6477
Location: Northfield, MN


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 2:51 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

NYL_WNBA_FAN wrote:
GlennMacGrady wrote:
For that, she is the object of hostility and various forms of personal diminishment here . . . a reaction that lends truth to her story.


Why does it lend truth?

I think it depends on what it is "lending truth" toward. Her personal experiences with being bullied? Absolutely.

Would any of us have been surprised if Sophia Young released an article talking about how she was bullied by other players after her stand on the anti-discrimination law? We are a pretty decent microcosm of the league's ideology, which means it leans heavily toward liberal social views. And any time someone's views are outside of the norm of their social subset (and are open about them) they are at the risk of what I like to call "righteous bullying". People feel strongly that the views of the other are reprehensible, and thus take it out on the individual. They are so certain about their "rightness" and the other's "wrongness" that they don't just attack the idea, but go after the person. And when a group is heavily dominated with one specific view, those attacks can feel like an overwhelming barrage (ie: bullying).

The way Wiggins is coming across here, along with aspects of her personality that she openly admits to, suggests that she would be a prime candidate for this type of bullying.

Now, what this doesn't do is lend truth to her claims that this is a systemic league wide issue of gay vs. straight, where as Muneraven put it, there is some lesbian cabal out to control the league and discriminate and bully anyone who isn't gay. The fact that other players from all sorts of different backgrounds and beliefs have not encountered this suggests Wiggins' experiences are individual in nature. We should not minimize what this might have meant for her, as being a victim of bullying sucks and can be extremely harmful to a person, but we do also have the right to be critical of her league-wide claims that seem to be inaccurate.



_________________
Covfefe when the walls fell.
Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 10667
Location: Oklahoma (in my heart)


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 3:00 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

justintyme wrote:
Jet Jaguar wrote:
bryan_february_ wrote:
I don't like how people are assuming she's lying as if they know what's going on behind closed locker room doors. It's entirely possible that she's saying outlandish stuff to sell her book but I'm interested in hearing more about her personal experience.

If a gay player said she was bullied for being gay people would be furious and not question her; whether there were other players who experienced this or not. Since she's straight she gets dismissed as being a lier. Double standards much?

It's not that she was bullied that we question. That very well could be the case. It's her suggestion that she was bullied for being a heterosexual. That stretches credulity.


Well, not any more than being bullied for being gay stretches credulity. I mean, it's possible.

Candace was a long-time fave of mine, from her days at Stanford. Not a huge fan of the pros, I still enjoyed watching her time there, too.

Long before this story broke, though, I have had the distinct impression that Candace is a more....'fragile'....gal than average, on a mental/emotional level. Very intense, very sensitive, etc. Probably a big factor in her success. I don't doubt that her perceptions are real....to HER, at least. My biggest disappointment would lie in the possibility that she's doing this for publicity/book sales.

Re: The Situation in the league? Who can know the entire truth? I think it's safe to say that Candace's perceptions are not 100% accurate. I liked Nneka's statements on the situation.

And let's be honest: the wnba DOES present some....*unusual*....logistics in player dynamics. I mean, look at Phoenix's lineup: you could have had not ONE, but 2 "couples" playing on the floor at any given moment--Bonner/Dupree, and Taurasi/Taylor (or are they no longer together?). I couldn't begin to know if that's Good/Bad/Indifferent, but it's certainly...different. I can't begin to comprehend how that would play out in, say, the NBA. Shocked

Overall, Candace has done NO ONE any favors here, not even herself. I'd like to believe that the women who've devoted their lives to this sport are all committed to the professionalism that makes it a quality product, and tolerance is more the rule than the exception.

SCARIEST possible outcome:
Queenie wrote:
Somehow I get the feeling that this is going to end in religion.
Laughing Laughing Laughing



_________________
Oklahoma: Go Sooners!

<--Maddie Manning, Sooner Extraordinaire
justintyme



Joined: 08 Jul 2012
Posts: 6477
Location: Northfield, MN


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 3:18 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
justintyme wrote:
It's not that she was bullied that we question. That very well could be the case. It's her suggestion that she was bullied for being a heterosexual. That stretches credulity.


Well, not any more than being bullied for being gay stretches credulity. I mean, it's possible.

You are right, of course. I wasn't as clear in this post as I should have been. I think I clarified it more in my other ones.

We have no reason to not accept that she believed/believes this is the reason for her bullying. And it very likely is rooted in some truth (ie: when she was being bullied, her heterosexuality was brought into it). What stretches credulity is that this is some sort of systemic issue of gay versus straight, or that it is a rampant problem throughout the league, versus isolated incidents.

We have ample evidence of a long standing social animus towards gay people that lead to bullying, and that in certain places that still exists. On the other hand, we don't have evidence of the WNBA as a whole holding this sort of animus towards straight people, and due to player testimony, quite a bit of evidence to suggest that they don't.



_________________
Covfefe when the walls fell.
AAOK423



Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 1107



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 3:53 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
And let's be honest: the wnba DOES present some....*unusual*....logistics in player dynamics. I mean, look at Phoenix's lineup: you could have had not ONE, but 2 "couples" playing on the floor at any given moment--Bonner/Dupree, and Taurasi/Taylor (or are they no longer together?). I couldn't begin to know if that's Good/Bad/Indifferent, but it's certainly...different. I can't begin to comprehend how that would play out in, say, the NBA. Shocked


But is it THAT unusual to other women's leagues though? I mean in the NWSL it was pretty widely known that Ashlyn Harris and Ali Krieger were dating. I don't follow that league very closely but I wouldn't be surprised if they weren't the only couple. With several openly gay players in that league someone could just as easily say that 98% of female soccer players are gay.

Fans of women's sports tend to be more tolerate and not care about a players sexuality...so players are more open.But if a man in the NBA, NFL, NHL, or MLB were playing and openly gay...even in 2017 it could hurt his career. But I don't think that means those gay athletes don't exist. Out of the thousands of men in those four leagues I would find it unbelievable that they are all straight. Hell, maybe some do have spouses on the same team or in the same league, it sure as hell isn't going to be talked about in a male league though. But I believe male sports leagues are 98% straight like I believe the WNBA is 98% gay.


hyperetic



Joined: 11 Oct 2005
Posts: 5046
Location: Fayetteville


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 4:21 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
justintyme wrote:
Jet Jaguar wrote:
bryan_february_ wrote:
I don't like how people are assuming she's lying as if they know what's going on behind closed locker room doors. It's entirely possible that she's saying outlandish stuff to sell her book but I'm interested in hearing more about her personal experience.

If a gay player said she was bullied for being gay people would be furious and not question her; whether there were other players who experienced this or not. Since she's straight she gets dismissed as being a lier. Double standards much?

It's not that she was bullied that we question. That very well could be the case. It's her suggestion that she was bullied for being a heterosexual. That stretches credulity.


Well, not any more than being bullied for being gay stretches credulity. I mean, it's possible.

Candace was a long-time fave of mine, from her days at Stanford. Not a huge fan of the pros, I still enjoyed watching her time there, too.

Long before this story broke, though, I have had the distinct impression that Candace is a more....'fragile'....gal than average, on a mental/emotional level. Very intense, very sensitive, etc. Probably a big factor in her success. I don't doubt that her perceptions are real....to HER, at least. My biggest disappointment would lie in the possibility that she's doing this for publicity/book sales.

Re: The Situation in the league? Who can know the entire truth? I think it's safe to say that Candace's perceptions are not 100% accurate. I liked Nneka's statements on the situation.

And let's be honest: the wnba DOES present some....*unusual*....logistics in player dynamics. I mean, look at Phoenix's lineup: you could have had not ONE, but 2 "couples" playing on the floor at any given moment--Bonner/Dupree, and Taurasi/Taylor (or are they no longer together?). I couldn't begin to know if that's Good/Bad/Indifferent, but it's certainly...different. I can't begin to comprehend how that would play out in, say, the NBA. Shocked

Overall, Candace has done NO ONE any favors here, not even herself. I'd like to believe that the women who've devoted their lives to this sport are all committed to the professionalism that makes it a quality product, and tolerance is more the rule than the exception.

SCARIEST possible outcome:
Queenie wrote:
Somehow I get the feeling that this is going to end in religion.
Laughing Laughing Laughing


Not exactly. There are well documented example of cases of violence, bullying to the point of suicide, refusal of services, funeral protests, etc. against gays. Not so much of heteros being bullied by LGBTQ for being hetero. Not saying its not possible. There is a lot of ignorance in the world but to put the possibility of it as the same for both I think is stretching it a bit.
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 1956
Location: New York City


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 4:46 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

hyperetic wrote:
Howee wrote:
justintyme wrote:
Jet Jaguar wrote:
bryan_february_ wrote:
I don't like how people are assuming she's lying as if they know what's going on behind closed locker room doors. It's entirely possible that she's saying outlandish stuff to sell her book but I'm interested in hearing more about her personal experience.

If a gay player said she was bullied for being gay people would be furious and not question her; whether there were other players who experienced this or not. Since she's straight she gets dismissed as being a lier. Double standards much?

It's not that she was bullied that we question. That very well could be the case. It's her suggestion that she was bullied for being a heterosexual. That stretches credulity.


Well, not any more than being bullied for being gay stretches credulity. I mean, it's possible.

Candace was a long-time fave of mine, from her days at Stanford. Not a huge fan of the pros, I still enjoyed watching her time there, too.

Long before this story broke, though, I have had the distinct impression that Candace is a more....'fragile'....gal than average, on a mental/emotional level. Very intense, very sensitive, etc. Probably a big factor in her success. I don't doubt that her perceptions are real....to HER, at least. My biggest disappointment would lie in the possibility that she's doing this for publicity/book sales.

Re: The Situation in the league? Who can know the entire truth? I think it's safe to say that Candace's perceptions are not 100% accurate. I liked Nneka's statements on the situation.

And let's be honest: the wnba DOES present some....*unusual*....logistics in player dynamics. I mean, look at Phoenix's lineup: you could have had not ONE, but 2 "couples" playing on the floor at any given moment--Bonner/Dupree, and Taurasi/Taylor (or are they no longer together?). I couldn't begin to know if that's Good/Bad/Indifferent, but it's certainly...different. I can't begin to comprehend how that would play out in, say, the NBA. Shocked

Overall, Candace has done NO ONE any favors here, not even herself. I'd like to believe that the women who've devoted their lives to this sport are all committed to the professionalism that makes it a quality product, and tolerance is more the rule than the exception.

SCARIEST possible outcome:
Queenie wrote:
Somehow I get the feeling that this is going to end in religion.
Laughing Laughing Laughing


Not exactly. There are well documented example of cases of violence, bullying to the point of suicide, refusal of services, funeral protests, etc. against gays. Not so much of heteros being bullied by LGBTQ for being hetero. Not saying its not possible. There is a lot of ignorance in the world but to put the possibility of it as the same for both I think is stretching it a bit.


Bullying is an ugly part of sports culture. It doesn't shock me that it could happen in the WNBA.

But false equivalencies are really tough to take. I live in Manhattan. Even in the most allegedly LGBT-friendly neighborhoods of Manhattan, there are homophobic and transphobic hate crimes on the streets, including murders. I've never read of gangs of gay men, lesbians, or people who are transgender roaming the streets and attacking and killing people perceived to be heterosexual.



_________________
Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.
Howee



Joined: 27 Nov 2009
Posts: 10667
Location: Oklahoma (in my heart)


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 5:13 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Bob Lamm wrote:
I've never read of gangs of gay men, lesbians, or people who are transgender roaming the streets and attacking and killing people perceived to be heterosexual.


I don't think anyone was saying or even implying that the flipside is totally equivalent. But just cuz "reverse discrimination" isn't equal in quantity, doesn't make it IMPOSSIBLE, either. Even if Candace is THE ONLY ONE IN THE LEAGUE EVER, she deserves to be heard, BUT....she bears a huge load of accountability. And she seems to be ignorant of the broadness of her brushstrokes....that doesn't do her credibility any favors.



_________________
Oklahoma: Go Sooners!

<--Maddie Manning, Sooner Extraordinaire


Last edited by Howee on 02/22/17 7:43 pm; edited 1 time in total
Bob Lamm



Joined: 11 Apr 2010
Posts: 1956
Location: New York City


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 5:25 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Howee wrote:
Bob Lamm wrote:
I've never read of gangs of gay men, lesbians, or people who are transgender roaming the streets and attacking and killing people perceived to be heterosexual.


I don't think anyone was saying or even implying that the flipside is totally equivalent. But just cuz "reverse discrimination" isn't equal in quantity, doesn't make it IMPOSSIBLE, either. Even if Candace is THE ONLY ONE IN THE LEAGUE EVER, she deserves to be heard, BUT....she bears a huge load of accountability. And she seems to be ignorant of the broadness of her brushstrokes....that doesn't do her credibility on favors.


No, reverse discrimination isn't impossible. Every group has some bad people in it. And even if just one player in the WNBA is bullied for any reason, that player deserves to be heard. Absolutely.

But there have indeed been statements of false equivalency on this thread. And I find them offensive.



_________________
Let's remember Anucha Browne, who was sexually harassed by Isiah Thomas. In recent years, she has served as a vice president of the NCAA focusing on women's basketball championships.
tfan



Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 5444



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 6:45 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

The streets of New York City or any city in the world are not a valid comparison for the WNBA. The WNBA is majority lesbian and 100% women. The streets of New York City are not. WNBA players are also playing a game in which they do little dirty illegal moves that people like to refer to as "being physical" so the personality makeup of players may differ to some degree from women in general.

But you hear about them getting along well enough that players go out to dinner with players on opposing teams. Wiggins may have the type of personality that tends to get picked on, whether it is in the office, the locker room, or the classroom. She's also writing a book, meaning things have to get exaggerated in order to sell it.


cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 8639
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump is not president.


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 7:15 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

I must say I personally didn't need further confirmation that Wiggins was an asshole.



_________________
Silly, stupid white people.


Last edited by cthskzfn on 02/22/17 8:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
Hoops9092



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 1335



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 7:49 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Can you someone please find the interview in which Wiggins said she was targeted by Deanna Nolan as a rookie?

Apparently Nolan (lesbian?) said she was "going to get Wiggins" in her first game - IIRC?


miller40



Joined: 29 Jun 2006
Posts: 961



Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 7:57 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Tara VanDerveer on the issue...

Quote:
“I don’t know why someone would take the shots,” VanDerveer said. “The WNBA is a young league. It’s doing really well. It’s what we’ve experienced in women’s sports. ... Women’s basketball is growing, but we still have a ways to go. We know this. It’s still a great game.”
Referring to Wiggins’ contention that 98 percent of WNBA players are gay, she said, “I don’t know that math was ever Candice’s strength. That to me sounds homophobic and negative.”


http://www.sfgate.com/collegesports/article/Tara-VanDerveer-defends-WNBA-from-Candice-10952346.php


cthskzfn



Joined: 21 Nov 2004
Posts: 8639
Location: In a world where a dbag like Trump is not president.


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 8:16 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

Lol re: the math comment!



_________________
Silly, stupid white people.
UofDel_Alum



Joined: 10 Jul 2013
Posts: 3810
Location: Delaware


Back to top
PostPosted: 02/22/17 8:55 pm    ::: Reply Reply with quote

WNBA sports writer has picked up the story;

http://www.twincities.com/2017/02/22/wnba-inexplicably-silent-in-wake-of-candice-wiggins-charges/


Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    RebKell's Junkie Boards Forum Index » WNBA All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5  Next
Page 3 of 5

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB 2.0.17 © 2001- 2004 phpBB Group
phpBB Template by Vjacheslav Trushkin